Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

http://jdbentley.com/six-days-without-food-hacking-your-mind-to-make-do-with-far-less/

by jdbentley • 15 years ago

102 117 15 years ago

DanBC• 15 years ago

I've known a few people with Anorexia Nervosa. Not just "skip a few meals, look a bit thin" anorexia, but "detained in hospital against their will in wheel-chairs with forced NG tube feeding BMI of 14" anorexics.

It's pretty scary that they describe very similar feelings as you do, and you only did that for a few weeks.

Also, people with bulimia tend to be overweight exactly because of the cycle of fasting and binging that you describe.

I'm pleased for you that you got a good result, and I'm grateful that you stressed the riskiness.

jdbentley4• 15 years ago

When I started, I had already limited it to a short-term experiment precisely because I was afraid of developing a fasting compulsion. I certainly don't need to be swinging from one extreme to another.

The risk should definitely be stressed.

cmhamill• 15 years ago

Not to be a big nerd, but I couldn't help thinking of the Ted Leo + Pharmacists Song "Me and Mia" while reading this. Particularly the line:

> Sick to death of my dependence, fighting food to find transcendence

> Fighting to survive, more dead but more alive

It's an often under-acknowledged aspect of those who struggle with obesity that many of the same impulses and issues underly over-eating and under-eating.

As someone who has both struggled with obesity my whole life and been drawn to fasting and extremity in fighting that goal, I would add one, very specific warning:

Rarely is self-deprivation the right way to fight addiction, depression, or lack of self-esteem.

nodata3• 15 years ago

Fasting is really bad for you. Does fasting even count as hacking?

Estragon• 15 years ago

Abuse of fasting usually has bad consequences, but when it's done for the purpose of studying one's emotional relationship to food and consumption, such abuse is unlikely.

mooism22• 15 years ago

Fasting isn't hacking, but I'd say the mental changes and introspection that went along with it in this case is hacking.

fingerprinter3• 15 years ago

Fasting is most definitely NOT bad for you. You literally fast every night.

Extreme, stupid, idiotic fasting is, however, bad.

nodata3• 15 years ago

Fasting when you sleep hardly counts.

tintin• 15 years ago

Most people think that fasting is about not eating and drinking. This is wrong. It is about rethinking the life you live. It could be anything from not eating to stop using internet for a week of so.

So why not call it hacking.

johnyzee2• 15 years ago

Fasting has real and proven health benefits. I have heard physicians state that it is the single most benficial thing you can do for your health. From Wikipedia:

Research suggests there are major health benefits to caloric restriction. Benefits include reduced risks of cancer, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, insulin resistance, immune disorders, and more generally, the slowing of the aging process, and the potential to increase maximum life span.[3] According to Dr. Mark P. Mattson, chief of the laboratory of neurosciences at the US National Institute on Aging, fasting every other day (intermittent fasting) shows beneficial effects in mice as strong as those of caloric-restriction diets,[4] and a small study conducted on humans at the University of Illinois indicates the same results [5] According to the US National Academy of Sciences, other health benefits include stress resistance, increased insulin sensitivity, reduced morbidity, and increased life span.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Health_effects

nodata3• 15 years ago

Calorific restriction is not the same as fasting. Calorific restriction is eating less.

During fasting you will lack vital nutrients that cannot be stored by the body. When you end a fast your blood sugar level will sky rocket, which is also bad for you.

khafra• 15 years ago

> Fasting is really bad for you.

Do you have any data on that? Many nutritionists and healthy people are big fans of intermittent fasts.

user24• 15 years ago

It's a very interesting, very different experience. I'm not sure what we can take from it. I like the point about "I was so obsessed with the tool that the house was neglected entirely", I feel there's some wisdom in there I can learn from.

Thanks for sharing it, I'm just not entirely sure what to make of it.

mooism22• 15 years ago

This reminds me a little of giving up smoking. That was definitely mind hacking. Obviously the endpoints are different (giving up tobacco forever good, giving up food forever bad).

RadioBellhop• 15 years ago

Although it's great you have felt a sense of empowerment through this, extreme measures I feel are never the best options. I guess it's how you define extreme, but if you ever feel that urgency to rack up the degree of action, ask around for help. Shit, in the right places even internet people are about nice enough.

teyc• 15 years ago

So true about what you wrote on feeling gratitude. One of the effects of being hungry is feeling alive. You begin to exist because the drive needs you to get off and eat.

One thing about being hungry is how unpleasant it is. And then how unpleasant something unpleasant is. Then the desire to shake off the unpleasantness. If you stay still, it becomes almost interesting to watch. One fathom long body, the master of the universe, can barely hold 4 hours of food supply.

Humans can survive on a meal a day. Just like most animals. My dog puts on weight on a meal a day. But somehow we have conditioned ourselves, through surrounding ourselves with food beyond what we need.

kzkg• 15 years ago

You should check you gallbladder for gallstones. They are often caused by crash diets and can cause that kind of pain you described.

jdbentley4• 15 years ago

I had my gallbladder removed in February of 2007 after several attacks, so thankfully it's not something for me to worry about. The pain I experienced lasted only one day and I haven't felt even a hint of it since.

fingerprinter3• 15 years ago

I'm going to jump right into the idea of fasting for 6 days and the unfortunate reality that most people in our field(s) don't.

1. know how to lose weight (really) 2. know how to eat 3. know how to workout

Here, if you want to try fasting, which I do recommend, give this a shot. http://www.leangains.com/ or do the Warrior diet (one huge meal a day). A 16/8 fast is great. Heck, I sometimes even do an eat-stop-eat way and skip an entire day after I had a cheat day.

If you want to lose weight, it isn't about a crash diet, it most DEFINITELY is not about cardio and will never, ever be about low fat.

Here it is, in a nutshell, to lose weight and maintain decent muscle mass through life.

Eat whole foods in these categories only. Veggies, organic/grassfed meats (chicken, beef, fish etc), organic eggs. Some fruit (don't go nuts) and, only if you tolerate it, very little dairy.

Some rules: every meal has protein, no exceptions. Fat is your friend. Carbs from veggies and fruit only.

Now, exercise like this: Hard, very, very hard. And short. Think lifting big weights in a complex manner like squats and deadlifts. If someone says you should be doing front shoulder raises, run.....

And sprint...bike REALLY fast for a short period of time, or jump rope really fast...something intense and short. Kettlebell swings in the 150-250 range would be great.

Do that a couple of days a week (2-3) there are awesome programs out there so don't think too much about this, rather just do it. 5x5 programs, strong lifts, or even the leangains guide has some.

There are awesome ways to get lost in details in all this, but that is like a 10 minute guide that I wish someone gave to me when I was 14. It literally took me this long to unlearn all the damage the high-carb, low-fat movement in the 80s did to us.

jamesbkel• 15 years ago

As someone who managed to lose over 100lbs through trying various techniques and adjusting by trial and error, I largely agree with your advice.

I rely on a diet of yogurt in the morning to get my day going, then one large meal for dinner. As long as you don't go overboard on the dinner, that generally leaves enough room for a "cheat day" each week.

Also, the "sprinting" technique worked wonders for me. I used a stationary bicycle and would do ~5min sprints/~2min breaks while watching TV or listening to music. If you live in an apt building and want to do that on the cheap, I've found running stairs works well too.

[edit: One last thing. The water fasting technique works quite well. If you are trying to drop some weight, get one of those filtered water jugs that fit in the refrigerator. Every time you feel hungry but know that you shouldn't be eating, drink a glass of cold water. ]

tptacek11• 15 years ago

I'm about as serious a high-quality protein advocate as probably exists in the leaderboard for this site (neither "organic" nor "grassfed" are particularly important adjectives for me, so much as "local" and "humane"), and I do not understand what this has to do with diet and weight loss.

Do you actually believe you're more likely to lose weight eating organic protein?

dextorious3• 15 years ago

"""Do you actually believe you're more likely to lose weight eating organic protein?"""

You are more likely to remain healthy while losing weight eating organic protein.

rudiger3• 15 years ago

Grass-fed beef is leaner than fattier corn-fed beef.

troystribling• 15 years ago

Here is an article summarizing research on the nutrition benefits of grass feed vs. grain feed beef http://www.bulletproofexec.com/grass-fed-meat-part-1/

ebbv5• 15 years ago

Your advice to workout hard and short instead of cardio is wrong. Working out at all is better than not working out. But cardio exercise (e.g. running and/or biking) for sustained periods of time will burn much more calories.

And that's what weight loss is all about. Calories in vs. calories out.

I speak from not only the obvious facts but also experience, I lost over 100lbs from January 2009 to July 2010 and got healthy in the process.

z0r• 15 years ago

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1526539

Summary: resistance training is most effective, then interval training (high intensity and lower intensity), and then steady state high intensity cardio training, and finally least effective steady state low intensity cardio training.

wrl2• 15 years ago

You are correct that sustained aerobic exercise burns more calories than an anaerobic activity such as weightlifting. The benefit of weightlifting in particular is that, by building more muscle, you are increasing your body's BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) because more muscles == more energy necessary to run them. This translates to your body burning more calories while at rest.

stevengg• 15 years ago

mark rippetoe of starting strength fame did an AMA on r/fitness yesterday. http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/n13d8/i_am_mark_rip...

gadders• 15 years ago

Awesome. Thanks for the link!

wavephorm2• 15 years ago

  every meal has protein

Contrary to popular belief, meat doesn't need to be eaten with every meal. The idea that humans require huge amounts of protein is a popular day myth. Vegetables do contain protein, even an average potato has 3g protein. Almost universally, everyone who is overweight eats entirely too much meat and dairy.

twelvechairs• 15 years ago

Agreed. You don't need huge amounts of protein if your main goal is weight loss or health (as opposed to muscle gain).... There are way too many of these 'fitness' people out there who think that everyone should eat as much protein as possible and aim their body towards being a mountain of underutilised muscle (apparently this counts as 'fitness' in some circles).....

Protein is fine, but you don't need an awful lot of it to lose weight. A little muscle gain can be helpful to make sure you can exercise more, but you can achieve this on a pretty low-protein diet anyway.

jscn• 15 years ago

On the other hand, protein and fat increase satiety better than carbohydrates, so if you want to feel fuller on fewer calories, protein is a good bet.

yummyfajitas2• 15 years ago

This is generally good advice, but avoiding carbs is unnecessary. There is basically no compelling evidence that avoiding carbs causes people to lose weight faster than other diets, and there is quite a bit of evidence that properly consumed carbs help muscle growth. Carbs before heavy weightlifting make sure your glycogen stores are replenished, i.e. you are more likely to hit your reps.

For some people, compliance with a low carb diet may be easier. I.e., it may take less willpower to stick to a low carb diet than a low fat diet. But that's the only benefit, and that benefit depends strongly on your personal tastes in food.

Making sure that calorie in < calories out is the main thing you need to do to lose weight. Calories in > calories out + sufficient protein is the thing to do to gain muscle. Everything else is small change, only worth thinking about if you are a bodybuilder or boxer.

The fact of the matter is that we were far thinner than today when we had an extremely high carb diet.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnpp.usd...

hmottestad2• 15 years ago

I presume it's a matter of complex vs. simple carbs. Also there is a great factor in the amount of fiber in the food.

Unless you are actually exercising, foods that take long to digest and slowly release energy are better for your mood and concentration. A spike in the blood sugar is followed by a drop in the blood sugar which leads to cravings. I guess the blood sugar analysis in the body is a based on calculus.

Cushman2• 15 years ago

Do you have a response to Gary Taubes et al. who have observed in recent years that the "calories in vs. calories out" hypothesis has no basis in the science of human metabolism, and that insulin, the hormone secreted in response to consumption of carbohydrates, has a very well-understood and primary role in fat storage?

emp_2• 15 years ago

I was just thinking about this, will give the Warrior diet a try (never did a diet, at 211 lbs 5'9") but mostly because I've been eating really little (fish+rice+lettuce salad) in the past 3 months without much effect.

The idea of only eating a nice meal at night is great to me since I hate the food around work (from fast to fancy), and dislike bringing it everyday from home even tho I absolutely love the wife's cooking skills, anyway thanks for the ideas!

MatthewPhillips3• 15 years ago

Did you already lose your water weight? If not, drink 10 8-ounce glasses of water a day, and you'll lose 10-15 in less than a month.

I don't know about this "one big meal a day" stuff. I used to do that as my normal diet in my early to mid 20s (not trying to lose weight) and it did not keep me in shape. I lost weight when I started eating more, normal sized meals (yogurt or granola for breakfast, sandwich and apple for lunch, fish and rice for dinner).

sorbits• 15 years ago

The diet you describe appears to be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

(figured a label and link would be good for people who wish to research further)

gizmo2• 15 years ago

This is exactly the kind of situation where a little advice can be dangerous. Going from a sedentary lifestyle to sprinting, deadlifts, kettlebell exercises or other intense activities is a recipe for disaster.

I agree with most of your advice and the implicit part that carbohydrates are the enemy and fat/protein your friend. However, the part that's dangerously missing is that your body takes a lot longer to recover from exercise than you think and that overtraining can set you back weeks or even lead to permanent injuries.

mahyarm4• 15 years ago

You ramp it up then, and go see a doctor first if your really bad/old. Instead of 150 kettlebell swings, you do 20 and add 10 every few days, etc.

jmtame• 15 years ago

Sounds like your body transitioned into ketosis during the third or fourth day. You can know for sure by buying ketone test strips and drinking enough water. I've tested out ketosis for myself and experienced some strange effects: salad tasted better, but I had no cravings and no hunger; some days all I had was an egg.

It's not a good idea to stay in ketosis for more than a few weeks, since it's making your liver work harder to convert fat (rather than glycogen) into energy.

JoshTriplett2• 15 years ago

You also don't want to stay in it too long because your body will start eating muscle, not just fat.

driverdan4• 15 years ago

For fasting, yes that's true. For a ketogenic diet with adequate amounts of protein, no it won't.

maeon32• 15 years ago

If you fast, when you stop fasting you will gain 20 pounds because your brain and body will be in "famine mode" and you will store everything to fat. Go ahead and try it.

I've been hovering around 155 to 160 my whole life, that is until the day I fasted for about 2 1/2 days, at which point I immediately started gaining weight after. It's been a daily battle since to not overeat. My subconscious mind says: "Eat, consume, gorge, because tomorrow there will be none" and my conscious mind has to say "no".

johnyzee2• 15 years ago

As someone who fasts for a full month of the year, I can chime in. It is true that you probably shouldn't do it for the weight loss alone, as you tend to compensate, or over-compensate, once fasting is broken.

That said there are many other benefits, as acknowledged by the author. Most people feel a heightened sense of awareness and clarity during fasting (the opposite of the lazy feeling after a meal). There is a reason most spiritual traditions include an element of fasting. Besides this there is a range of proven health benefits (Wikipedia cites reduced risk of cancer, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, insulin resistance, immune disorders, slowing of the aging process, and the potential to increase maximum life span).

Just like exercising, it is 'unpleasant' for the mind to be forced into, but feels 'right' once you get it done and you actually grow fond of it in spite of the hardship.

GiraffeNecktie• 15 years ago

A long time ago I tried fasting for ten days on nothing more than water with a little lemon juice and cayenne (the plan was courtesy of a stupid book). After ten days, when I was ready to break my fast all nice and slow, I happened to pass by some fresh baked apple pie, which smelled like the best apple pie I'd ever smelled in my life. What do you think happened?

RyanHolliday• 15 years ago

I don't want to discount your experience, but as with a post advocating for fasting, you need to put a personal experience/your mileage may vary disclaimer on here, because your experience isn't going to be what everyone will experience.

I've done fasting in pretty varied ways. The longest was for eight days. What I usually do now is a 24-hour fast: dinner, skip the following breakfast and lunch, and then dinner.

When I fasted for eight days, I dropped about ten pounds. On a 24-hour cycle of fasting, I will drop between 1 and 2 pounds a day depending on activity level. I have never had the experience of gaining 20lb after fasting, nor have I ever felt like I was in famine mode. I think I gain weight a bit quicker than before I started doing the 24-hour fasts, but at the same time, it drops off quicker, too (it's true that fasting changes how your body stores and uses fat).

If you go from fasting back to junk food binges three or four times a day, yes, you will (unsurprisingly) gain the weight back. If you're putting 6k calories a day in, nothing about the effects of that are going to go away after your fast. If you go from fasting back to a reasonably balanced diet, the weight isn't coming back--if you aren't overeating, how could it?

This has been my experience. Your mileage may vary. I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice.

jdbentley4• 15 years ago

During my six-day fast, I dropped from 252lbs to 228lbs. After the fast, I leveled out at 233lbs and then continued to drop because I didn't return to my old eating and exercise habits.

maeon32• 15 years ago

Hacker diet: http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html

sambeau3• 15 years ago

I tried giving up eating for a week and it was a fascinating experience: if you are curious, try it. It won't kill you and it probably won't harm you unless you are already ill. It gives you an interesting insight into ancient man and how well our bodies are made to cope with hunger and starvation.

The first day-and-a-half was the hardest I felt really hungry. Then suddenly the hunger stopped and I felt great: really alive and full of energy. This feeling remained for the rest of the week.

Originally I had intended to drink fruit juice but it gave me a terrible stomach upset and I switched to water only (although I did have an occasional glass of wine).

Somewhere around day two my fat started to melt and began to coat my mouth and skin. I grew some huge spots (edit: pimples).

Day three I felt a little light-headed at times but was never tired: I had read about the dangers of muscle-loss so I chose to visit the gym each night and was swimming for up to an hour, too.

By day 5 I could have kept going without problem: I'm a big guy and could easily do 40 days without food. I stopped only because I had a family celebration to attend (and I'm not sure my mother would have approved).

I can't say I noticed much in the way of weight loss. I had read that you normally lose about a pound a day (which may have been true). I'd been drinking plenty of liquid so I didn't lose water.

The evening when I went back onto food was also interesting: the food tasted different — more intense and satisfying.

The following days I felt great and had meant to repeat the exercise for a longer period, but as I yet I haven't. No matter what anyone says, that first day-and-a-half does not get any easier.

Some of the reported upsides that I cannot confirm from such a short diet are: your digestive system shuts down very early and so it gets a rest for repair (something that modern humans never manage but ancient humans probably did); your gut flora also gets a chance to die-off a bit and regrow — we are a forest of yeast and bacteria and some people think the occasional prune-and-regrowth is healthy; your fat (especially your internal fat) starts to melt and be burned up as fuel (this is a surprisingly kludgy process: it seems to all go liquid at once all over your body). I can surmise that given a longer period of time it would be beneficial to get rid of the stored fat (and other chemicals stored in it—fat in animals stores feed flavours after-all). There are reports that stopping, clearing out and restarting your digestive/fat/fat storage/liver system can have other surprising health benefits most notably with Type 2 diabetes; there are also reports of benefits to allergies and food intolerances (again I can't verify).

My father has been discussing doing something similar with his doctor in the hope of curing his Type 2 diabetes.

So, in summary, I found the experiment interesting, informative and fun and would recommend it to anyone (with sufficient fat store) who would like to see what it is like (and can get through the initial wall).

If you do: keep exercising so you don't lose muscle; don't eat anything as then you will become hungry again; don't operate heavy machinery (and probably avoid driving) as you do get light headed; don't expect to lose a large amount of weight in such a short amount of time; avoid fruit juice; don't expect your world-view to change or for it to make you a stronger/wiser/more spiritual person; do expect it to give you newfound respect for ancient man and those forced to starve through drought and war.

jnorthrop• 15 years ago

Thanks for the interesting read but I'm confused about this statement: "I grew some huge spots." What kind of spots?

aaronmorey• 15 years ago

I believe "spots" is a Briticism for pimples.

mahyarm4• 15 years ago

The problem I have with fasting or reducing calories below maintenance is that I have a really hard time focusing mentally on anything. I'm reduced to TV watching. I can't program, study or do any other sort of mental work with any sort of effectiveness. Any suggestions on dealing with this?

driverdan4• 15 years ago

Try switching to a ketogenic (ultra low carb / high fat) diet for a week or two beforehand.

The reason you have no focus or energy is due to a lack of glucose (sugar). When you fast your glycogen stores (carbs) will deplete and your body will start running on fat. During the transition, before adjusting, you'll feel slow, weak, and have trouble focusing.

sambeau3• 15 years ago

Did you keep exercising? I found that the combination of fasting & exercise meant I was alert and reasonably focused

einhverfr3• 15 years ago

Reading this blog I was reminded of Epicurius's statements (According to Cicero) about the impact of fasting on smell and taste (largely exactly what are described in that blog posting).

RexRollman2• 15 years ago

Out of curiousity, what is the best way to end a multiple day fast? It would seem to me that eating too much at once or eating the wrong thing would make someone feel sick.

Loic• 15 years ago

Start simply with water boiled potatoes, then carrots, then slowly things like bread. My parents are doing a one week fast every year and this is what they do. It takes time to go back to normal food as the bacteria in your intestine need to grow again.

The first time you do a one week fast, do it with people who are used to do it. In Europe you can find a lot of associations/clubs/whatever offering a one week seminar to do it.

rudiger3• 15 years ago

What if you don't wish to introduce carbohydrates into your diet (à la Paleolithic diet)?

baddspellar2• 15 years ago

Radical, one-time, short-term actions like this aren't lifestyle changes. They're not sustainable, so they don't work in the long term.

If the author said he made sustainable lifestyle changes I'd have some reason to believe he's won his weight battle. If he said he's been getting up an hour early each morning for the past 3 months to walk, or has been learning how to prepare tasty low-calorie meals and has kept that up for the past 3 months, or has taken up cycling and has commuted to the office by bike every day it would be a different story. I know plenty of people who've done these things and successfully kept their weight down indefinitely.

On the other hand, I know plenty of people who've lost weight with short term, unsustainable diets, and who gained every pound of that back.

fennecfoxen• 15 years ago

It doesn't sound like immediate weight-loss is what he's after here. It sounds like it's more about developing self-control in the face of abundant food, and being able to skip the candy bar. A one-time super-fast exercise may actually be able to help with that.

(Disclaimers etc go here.)

jdbentley4• 15 years ago

I felt that the post concluded better at the end of the fast rather than dragging it on, but since breaking the fast I've continued walking daily, I lift weights 3 day a week, I'm eating far more fruits and vegetables (especially apples) and I'm getting about 100g-150g of lean protein per day (from chicken, turkey, occasionally beef, and protein shakes). My water habit from the fast has carried over into everyday life. Lots of water, no sodas or other sugary drinks.

The fasting wasn't the change I was looking for, but a catalyst for that change. It put me on the right path.

baddspellar2• 15 years ago

Now that's what we're talking about! Good job.

realschool• 15 years ago

I did a 3.5 day water only fast a few years ago, I remember reading somewhere that going longer then 3 days wasn't that safe.

Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

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