A deep dive on a Facebook reseller of bikes stolen in Colorado

https://bikeindex.org/news/closing-the-loop-a-deep-dive-on-a-facebook-reseller-of-bikes-stolen-in

by epa • 5 years ago

324 127 5 years ago

walrus018• 5 years ago

I can't say that I'm familiar with bikeindex, it seems to be generally the same idea as 529 garage which is much more commonly used in BC/WA/OR/CA.

https://project529.com/garage

Donations to 529 are encouraged and you can buy their sticker, but you can also register your new bike for free just by taking a few photos of it, your bill of sale, and its serial number (typically embossed into the bottom bracket somewhere). Takes a max of 5-10 minutes to do to set up new account and register a bike.

I am loathe to recommend the use of Facebook for anything, but people in the metro Vancouver area have taken it on themselves to create a group called Stolen Bikes Vancouver which has successfully crowdsourced the location and return of bikes to some people. It's at least better than doing nothing, in the almost total lack of law enforcement cooperation.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/stolenbike604//

softbuilder2• 5 years ago

Bike Index is very well known at least in OR/WA (I'm in PDX) and has been around a long time. I appreciate you're supportive of another effort but you don't need to push one effort down to lift another up.

walrus018• 5 years ago

I don't see where I said anything disparaging bikeindex, it certainly can't hurt to register a bike or search on both sites. My comment was a one person sample size anecdote of what I've commonly seen used on the west coast.

jacquesm• 5 years ago

I see no pushing down.

throwaway829313• 5 years ago

I am loathe to recommend the use of Facebook for anything, but [...] It's at least better than doing nothing

Is it? A central theme of the article is how Facebook is facilitating bike theft by providing essential electronic storefront space, and that you can't get Facebook to take down such storefronts.

walrus018• 5 years ago

yes, though as facebook seems to be a lowest-common-denominator method of social media communications for many people, even if they use it rarely, I am not aware of any other 4000 person group for sharing stolen bike information in that specific city.

simultaneously you've got stolen bike sales going on within the facebook marketplace and also a group of people trying to find/recover their stolen bikes.

gs17• 5 years ago

and that you can't get Facebook to take down such storefronts.

This really surprised me given the difficulty I had with Facebook Marketplace incorrectly taking down my listings and refusing to put them back up (one was an empty aquarium, taken down for selling "live animals").

sethherr• 5 years ago

Donate to Bike Index! We’re more widely used everywhere except for Vancouver. Also, we wrote this article! And Bike Index is a non profit, so it makes sense to donate to us, rather than a for profit company.

https://bikeindex.org/donate

throwaway829313• 5 years ago

Ideally, this article would hopefully help de-platform this seller off of Facebook, but we aren't holding our breath on that one. Facebook is basically terrible about this, and their existing mechanisms for dealing with reporting sellers like this simply don't work.
[...]
There is no button to click where you can explain to anybody at FB "this is a repeat seller of bikes stolen in Colorado, and here's our proof, and here's our contact info." etc. It is almost as if their system for reporting stolen goods is designed not to work.

So "storefront for stolen goods" is another way Facebook makes our lives worse.

g8oz• 5 years ago

In the 2000s Craigslist was threatened by a coalition of 40 state attorneys general into policing their sex ads....Facebook will need something similar.

lotsofpulp• 5 years ago

I would rather the government do their job and police and prosecute illegal acts.

jessaustin• 5 years ago

Attorneys general DGAF about cyclists. If they did, there would be more prosecutions for vehicular assault/murder.

walrus018• 5 years ago

In Vancouver if your bike gets stolen there's also an almost literal storefront for stolen goods. If your bike gets stolen and is worth a few thousand dollars there's a good chance it will turn up within a few hours to a few days at a street market of stolen goods, in a specific several block zone of East Hastings.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=east+hast...

If it is really high end (like $7000+ Canadian dollar value) and the theft was targeted rather than random, more likely it might get parted out/sold as components on facebook or sent to another provice for sale by an organized group. Very occasionally Vancouver police or RCMP will find a storage unit full of $7000+ bikes that are being collected together in one place prior to transport out of province.

hhmc2• 5 years ago

The thing I find surprising about high-end bike crime -- it seems easy to crack down on -- if there's any desire to do so.

Acquire some bait bikes, then put some 40mm GPS trackers somewhere unusual in the bike (the chain stays?), maybe this requires a bit of surgery, but this seems like a relatively small cost. Then raid whatever warehouse they end up in.

I guess there's no real political will to do this.

georgeoliver• 5 years ago

This is a great article. The resale prices of the bikes are also interesting (in the mid 4 figures USD range), considering the per capita income of Mexico vs the USA.

umanwizard3• 5 years ago

There are plenty of people in Mexico that have that kind of disposable income. Fewer than in the US, sure, but Mexico is a rich country by global standards and its wealth is very unequally distributed.

dannylandau• 5 years ago

I'm from Boulder Colorado, and had 2 bikes stolen as a teenager. So, this touches very close to home.

soared• 5 years ago

I'm going to put some of the blame on the Denver government/police for this, but not for a lack of enforcement. If your bike is impounded or stolen and recovered it is nearly impossible to retrieve it. You cannot call to see if it was picked up. You cannot look for it online. You have to show up to their sketchy office during business hours, wait in line, and ask the guy to go look through all the bikes and try to find yours. With hundreds of bikes it almost certainly will not be found.

The government auctions off some of the bikes and gives or sells the rest of the bikes to charity.

Two years ago my bike was locked in a location it should not have been downtown along with many other bikes. When I came back to find my bike missing the police officer said all of the bikes were impounded. I called around, went to the impound place twice.. but my bike was never found.

In short, great investigation work by bike index. But their efforts are hindered by the city.

ajsnigrutin• 5 years ago

Don't bikes have serial numbers?

How hard is it to just publish the list of "found" and imponded bikes, that everyone can see?

enjo• 5 years ago

They use the serial number as a means to identify that you are actually the owner. Denver has a system where if you register you bike with the city and your bike is found they'll notify you.

mfg4u• 5 years ago

Yes, but usually the first thing thieves do when they steal a bike is grind away the serial numbers.

tommoor• 5 years ago

Large parts of America seem to still see bikes as "toys" rather than somewhat expensive vehicles that people depend on. Imagine if this approach was taken with recovered stolen cars too.

dylan6042• 5 years ago

Except, it is almost the exact same with cars. If your car is stolen, there is very little chance the cops will actually help you recover it. If it is impounded, you too get to stand in line during business hours trying to get it back (if you can). At some point, those cars are also sold at auction.

Where are you seeing the difference?

dillondoyle• 5 years ago

The theft here feels off the charts right now too.

I know a lot of police have quit and they don't have budget to increase next class size. Vaccines too..

Sympathizers say that cities' new rules on when to engage are a big cause but it seems to me we can have both enforcement and no needless violence. To me it feels like police are just having a temper tantrum saying you don't want us, watch what happens when we don't do anything.

I see cop cars breaking traffic laws around cap hill and downtown and just driving around staring at the homeless camps. Flipping on lights to go the wrong way down a one way street around civic building. When there is an OD (all the time) I just see them sitting in their car doing nothing but wait for paramedics. zero humanity.

I can't remember the last time I've seen a traffic enforcement stop and speeding & illegal parking is out of control.

I'm not sure if it's uniquely bad here? I know theft is increasing everywhere.

I've had my car broken into four times this year, often they just pull on the topper until it breaks open. Usually nothing in there. Once went through back window to the front. If a package is in the entrance more than a day it will be gone.

Last year I had a probably 300 pound, 4' x 6' wooden crate stolen from my back parking lot! insane. It was a pretty expensive marble sink top.

I've installed cameras and more lights doesn't matter or make any difference.

Somewhat off topic but insurance lady on the phone spent 20 minutes on hold trying to find a way to reject the claim... Same with my recent travel insurance. Provide them the bare minimum documentation and say nothing beyond a couple sentences on the phone they will just sit quietly on the phone waiting for you to say something, often emotionally since something crappy happened. they are looking for anything to use against your claim. Sucks.

hermes8329• 5 years ago

People hate to see reality but let's be honest. Cops do a terrible job. If a crime against you happens. It will likely never be solved. The report will be there for you though

But they just don't have enough of funding is always the big complaint. And it's bullshit when they walk around with body armor and use military equipment from Iraq.

Crimes only get solved accidentally by cops. If they happen to see it go down and then somehow catch them in the act

tomcam2• 5 years ago

That whole situation is profoundly depressing.

jmspring• 5 years ago

Many cities do little to nothing about bike theft. I've sat in meetings with a prior police chief of the city of Santa Cruz where he flat out stated, unless the owner sees the theft (or an officer does), they will not do anything. At the time, multiple other cities I spent time in (the east bay) would at least make contact with and check on people. If the person had bike theft tools on them, they'd be arrested.

Bike theft is one of the rampant issues in areas with excessive drug use, etc. Nearly every homeless encampment in west coast cities will have one or more people with piles of bikes and bike parts.

ScottBurson• 5 years ago

This is frustrating, because it's not a difficult crime to deter. The gain to the thief is very small, but if the city makes no enforcement effort at all, the risk to the thief is even smaller. Some people think that since police couldn't catch a large fraction of the offenders, it's not practical to deter the crime, but this isn't true; all that's needed is to bring the risk into the same range as the gain, which, again, is quite small. So almost any real chance of prosecution is sufficient. I've read that this theory has been verified experimentally, though I don't recall where.

hetspookjee• 5 years ago

Yet Facebook earns money of this illegal business, no? Just like their practice with the Amazon land plots they catered to buyers. The list of illegal things that Facebook facilitates in return of profits is endless and just banning the city is too short-sighted in my view.

RickJWagner• 5 years ago

I had a house break-in a number of years ago. That's a BIG deal, at least it was for me.

I understood then what it meant to feal 'violated'. I was also shocked that the cops seemed to be 'going through the motions'. They dusted for prints and took the identifying information I gave them, but I was expecting a little more action. I suppose I got that idea from tv.

Now that time has passed and I've had time to cool down, I think I better understand what I saw happening. The small-ish city I live in has a small police force, they're almost always busy with some minor crimes, probably domestic disputes, drunk drivers, traffic safety, etc. There's just not time fo r the pawn-shop snooping I was imagining.

I suppose if they had more budget, then there might be manpower for more activities. But I think the funding is about right-- I wouldn't want to pay for any more, and I wouldn't want any less safety.

peter303• 5 years ago

Furthermore, there are many openly visible bike chop-shop shops among the numerous tent camps around Denver. I have seen some with 20-50 bicycles lying about; many more then camp inhabitants could personally use. Social media like Nextdoor notes these. Its a low priority to overworked police who are aware of them. The felony-theft thresholdin Colorado is $2000; which many better bikes exceed.

bhance9• 5 years ago

Hello. Article author here. Hit me up if anybody has questions.

bhance9• 5 years ago

Guess I'll just run with this: Since this article was published, here's what has transpired

My inbox became:

a) various cyclists in Mexico giving me more info b) new victims who have read the article, identifying their stolen bikes in this guy's sales that we posted, including commercial shop robberies c) people sending copies of his "official message" to his clients he posted, in which he denies the claims we make and essentially calls us liars, etc and asks for his customers support

After that, Mexican Cycling FB picked it up. FWIW Mex cycling folks are awesome, we had some really good input and comms with folks in that community.

For about 24 hours the store would remove any negative comments from their page from cyclists and/or customers, far as we could tell, and all his customers were chiming in how much of a great shop he was with great deals and great service. Nobody would address the proof we posted of stolen in his sales.

As of an hour ago (?) or so the guys page is now gone.

bndw• 5 years ago

Awesome work, glad you guys are still at it.

bryannn• 5 years ago

Really interesting find. I had previously seen suspicion that this exact thing was happening. Were these Guerilla Gravity bikes linked to the showroom burglary that happened earlier this year?

Also, could you please try to get this posted on Pinkbike/VitalMTB? Would like to see this shared on other common bike sites.

bhance9• 5 years ago

Yes, those GG bikes are confirmed. And yes its on PB somewhere in the forums. And many Colorado FB groups, which is how new victims which we knew nothing about are now trickling in. Please spread it wherever you can.

bhance9• 5 years ago

PS there are other CO shop robbery bikes in here, we just didn't spell them all out. But we have confirmations on others.

umanwizard3• 5 years ago

Did you attempt to report these guys to Mexican police? (I know Mexico has a reputation for being a failing state, but the chance something will come of it is at least not zero, surely).

spamizbad• 5 years ago

Tons of boosted goods land on Facebook Marketplace. It's also where shoplifting rings tend to dump their goods.

agumonkey2• 5 years ago

Who here uses trackers ? apparently there are lorawan based modules with included data plan and a phone app for less than 100$

UncleEntity2• 5 years ago

One of the apple iTags would probably work pretty well I would think. Attach with GorillaGlue++ so they have to seriously degrade the value of the bike for extra points.

71a54xd• 5 years ago

The amount of this behavior on eBay is also pretty stunning, however the rules that have been proposed to curve this basically stand to completely destroy secondary markets which is horrible for single use electronics consumption and the environment in general.

literallyaduck• 5 years ago

Facebook should be held to the same standards as pawnshops.

bhance9• 5 years ago

also Offerup. Please, please please.

umanwizard3• 5 years ago

What standards are pawnshops held to?

bhance9• 5 years ago

Here is just one example https://www.portland.gov/code/14/b90

check out "14B.90.080 Reporting of Secondhand Dealer Transactions"

details differ by state and city, but the gist is "electronic records of serials are transmitted to law enforcement" etc. Also items are held for a while, not sold immediately.

windows2020• 5 years ago

In early high school, we'd ride bikes to the local coffee shop, lean them against the big windows out front and hangout. Somehow, no one noticed when mine was snatched one evening. I was pretty devastated.

My grandfather drove me around the town the next day to see if I could spot it. When we were about to give up, I noticed a bike leaning along side a house near the shop. I could see it from the street. It looked exactly like mine. It had the same replacement seat and even a curly bike lock coiled around the handlebars on the same side I left it. But it had been hastily spray pained.

We called the police, they arrived and a kid inside noticed the commotion and came out. They had found the bike at the shop and took it. I went to inspect it. I was very surprised when I found the small yard behind the house was packed with around fifty bikes. To the cop, I said something like, "there's tons of bikes back here!" I then remembered another friend had theirs stolen as well.

He didn't look for himself, and said I couldn't just take the bike. There was no proof it was mine. So, I said, "what if I can unlock the bike lock?" I could and was allowed to take it, but it had been ruined. My prized shiny bike had been banged up and spray painted.

The following week my mother read me a letter that had arrived. The town would not be prosecuting the kid. I was confused. I did nothing wrong and stayed out of trouble myself. Did their actions not warrant any consequences?

My mother ended up going to the police department and insisting the town prosecute, which they ended up doing. I'm not sure what happened. Did the consequences dissuade them from stealing a 51st bike? Their family had failed them, would their community? If not for religion, what hope did they have?

theturtletalks• 5 years ago

Had my bike stolen twice out of my garage and the first thing I did was file a police report with the color and brand. Write down your serial number if you have a bike and so you can provide that as well.

I knew the police would not really look for a bike so I scoured Craigslist, OfferUp, and Facebook Marketplace. Eventually I found the bike both times. I messaged the person to meet up, called the police, and provided my report number and the listing. The police met up the people and got my bike back twice.

What happened to the thieves that stole my bike twice and broke my expensive locks? Absolutely nothing. When I asked the cop why they weren't cited or charged, he said they were fences. Guess if you're a fence, you can get away with selling stolen goods because you can claim you thought you bought the item legitimately. I'm sure those fences were selling other people's bikes as well, but cops didn't do anything.

The deterrence for small crimes is slowly falling as thieves are realizing that the cops are not punishing thieves even after catching them red-handed.

itronitron• 5 years ago

That house was probably already well known to the town cops and they didn't want to deal with the hassle.

tomcam2• 5 years ago

If your mom is still around, please thank her for me. Seriously, that was an amazing thing she did.

cortesoft• 5 years ago

The town would not be prosecuting the kid. I was confused. I did nothing wrong and stayed out of trouble myself. Did their actions not warrant any consequences?

I feel like there is an unpleasant reality that people either don’t realize or don’t want to accept… there is simply not enough resources to go after every petty criminal with prosecution. Honestly, I am not even sure it would be a good idea even if we had the resources… should we spend thousands on a prosecution over a $50 crime? Will that actually reduce crime enough to make it worthwhile?

Criminal prosecution works as a deterrent by being something that CAN happen for minor crimes, but doesn’t always… the chance they could be prosecuted hopefully deters most would be criminals, and only prosecuting a few saves money and is more efficient.

Talanes2• 5 years ago

The example wasn't even a $50 crime though, it was 50 $50 crimes. At some point they have to add up to be worthwhile.

YZF• 5 years ago

My bicycle was stolen when I was a kid and we saw the thief ride away. My father gave chase in his car and eventually came back with the bicycle. I was pretty impressed... Thanks for reminding me of that. Generally I've always ridden bikes that are so cheap/crappy looking that thiefs never bothered me. I used to just leave them unlocked all over the place and never had a problem (though none of these places and times were like any of today's hot spots). Now motorcycles getting stolen is yet another story.

mfashby• 5 years ago

TFA reminded me to go register my own bike, which I had forgotten to do. I also registered at bikeregister.com which is linked from the UK police.

slim• 5 years ago

Off topic, but classic film to watch : Ladri di bicyclette, by Vittorio de Sica

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0040522/

0cVlTeIATBs• 5 years ago

I looked to see if they have been sentenced, but instead found this about the fence of the group:

"Adrian Rocha Chairez is charged with 31 felony counts including racketeering. Police say he headed up an organized crime ring responsible for more than a million dollars in damaged property and stolen cars and bikes. He was indicted in Denver, where a judge set bond at $500,000.

A Boulder judge knocked it down to $10,000. He walked out even after prosecutors noted he had weapons and ties to Mexico."

[0] https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/12/08/boulder-pr-bonds-murr...

starwind• 5 years ago

Hoo boy, this one's good (from the same article): "Police suspect Savuth and Yulisa Yin in the death and cover-up of a Longmont real estate broker. They’re charged with stealing $3 million in property from him. They were let out on $500 cash bonds each, even after prosecutors presented evidence that they planned to leave the country."

That's Boulder for you

denton-scratch2• 5 years ago

and ties to Mexico

That sounds like enough reason on its own to lock the dude up, right? Would the bond reduction be OK if the guy had ties to (say) Scotland?

eloff2• 5 years ago

The difference is it's easy to skip bond and run off to Mexico, and hard to get them back from there afterwards. Not the same at all with Scotland.

mikotodomo2• 5 years ago

Wow, I didn't know it's possible to nerd out so hard on bike theft.

GaylordTuring• 5 years ago

Nerds find a way.

Which is a good thing, by the way!

mikotodomo2• 5 years ago

xyst• 5 years ago

off topic: some of these bike brands I have never heard of but they look impressive. The zerode brand has particularly caught my eye.

Would it be a waste of money to use these strictly on roads?

citizenpaul• 5 years ago

Who is buying a $5000 bike from Mexico for a 10% discount. Seems like a lot of risk for a very minor discount on an very expensive item with no warranty. It makes me suspicious there is even more to the story than the author was able to dig into.

A deep dive on a Facebook reseller of bikes stolen in Colorado

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