Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

by audionerd • 15 years ago

413 131 15 years ago

byoung24• 15 years ago

After spending 200+ hours developing the system, not a dime has been seen or given

Freelancers should always try to get at least a deposit upfront. When I was freelancing, I would get 100% upfront for projects under $500, 50% upfront for projects between $500 and $2000. For projects over $2000, I would get 25% upfront, and then set milestones with payments attached. I had a $7500 project once where the guy made the first 25% payment, I completed the first milestone (graphic comps and UX flowcharts) then he disappeared for a year, not returning phone calls or emails. He then contacted me out of the blue and made the second payment, and I completed the second milestone (HTML/CSS/JS coding), and then he disappeared permanently. Clients like these are exactly the reason you need to get some payment upfront.

thebigredjay• 15 years ago

Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend? I am early in my career and have been on both sides of writing contracts. While I am figuring a lot of things out as I go it would be nice to sit down and wrap my head around this for good.

Also, to the OP, is a few weeks really enough time? If those were 200 billable hours it seems like it's worth a tad more hunting.

shaggyfrog• 15 years ago

> Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts?

Law school. ;)

Okay, okay. Seriously, besides getting a lawyer and have them draw you up a standard contract, there isn't much you can do to "wrap your head around [contract negotiation] for good" as there's just too much to learn. Some of it comes from experience (you'll start getting a radar for certain kinds of clauses), and there's no quick fix for getting experience besides the passage of time. Specifically, make sure there is a provision in there for getting some of the payment up-front (as grandparent suggests), and specify a late fee % for any overdue bills.

RexM• 15 years ago

http://vimeo.com/22053820

This is a good video about contracts. It's targeted for designers, but I think most of it still applies to developers. I think the best point in the video, have a good lawyer.

drewcrawford• 15 years ago

Shameless plug: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2594422&mobify=0

byoung24• 15 years ago

Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend?

The freelance kit from www.sitepoint.com is where I learned a lot about techniques for freelancing. That's where I picked up the technique for deposits and milestones. In fact, one of the best pieces of advice I got from there was never to be the lowest bidder. There was a project we were bidding on, and the client ended up going with us even though we were the highest bid ($8000). He showed us the other bids, and they came in at ($1600, $2800, and $4500). He liked our proposal for a few reasons: One, the other 3 bids were just Word documents or PDFs attached to email. Ours was printed in color, bound, and sent FedEx overnight. Another, we had detailed writeups of 3 previous projects with testimonials and phone numbers of the clients (used with permission). Lastly, we had suggestions for additional features to add, with a cost/benefits analysis on each, along with suggestions of features that could be cut to reduce the timeline or cost. All of these were suggestions from sitepoint's ebook.

bitsweet• 15 years ago

You can buy the MSA + SOW that hashrocket uses with its clients http://blog.obiefernandez.com/content/2008/09/master-service...

vaksel• 15 years ago

contracts usually aren't worth the paper they are written on. Because even if you win in court, it doesn't mean the guy will pay you...you'll still need to chase after the money.

georgieporgie• 15 years ago

Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts? Is there a comprehensive website or book that you can recommend?

Nolo press has a variety of books that are probably relevant. Your local library likely has an assortment of them.

brudgers• 15 years ago

>"Where is a good place to learn the ins and outs of contracts?"

It's more an issue of customer relations than contracts. Contract specifics should be a reflection of that relationship (or lack thereof).

The way most people really learn customer relations or contracts is The School of Hard Knocks. The introductory sequence consists of SHK101 - Get it in Writing, SHK190 - Retainers, SHK225 - Applying Retainers to Final Invoice, and SHK230 - Termination Fees.

kposehn2• 15 years ago

I've run my own marketing firm for the last few years and have dealt with similar issues as the OP.

How you structure up front payment is always up to you. We've always had a setup fee, typically a few thousand dollars, which is due before any work starts. However, there has been one single thing which has kept our revenue flowing month after month for years: Freshbooks.com

I seriously love that site. We use it for:

1. Making estimates 2. Tracking hours worked against estimates 3. Invoicing based on hours and services rendered 4. Making sure the client indeed noticed the invoice - it says "viewed" when you send by email and they actually log in and view, so you can call bullshit when they say "I didn't get it yet!" :D 5. Automatically adding late fees to invoices. We charge a relatively nasty fee each month for a late invoice and it automatically adds it to each one. 6. Tracking payment; clients get notified via email when payment has been received, something many have commented on as a great feature.

Quickbooks and other tools are all well and good, but imho I think Freshbooks pretty much handles 90% of what you need to be successful independently :)

joaquin_win• 15 years ago

http://mylawyergabe.com might help you answer some questions or at least learn a bit.

bfirsh• 15 years ago

http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2006/10/26/a_beginners_gu...

marknutter• 15 years ago

Honestly, it doesn't need to be complicated. If you just require 25-50% down on your contracts that will weed out the scammers from the legit customers, and will make sure you get partially compensated should they ever leave you in the lurch. Make sure you document all communication, try to keep it over email so it's easy to do that, and you'll be fine should you ever need to take something to small claims court (which will probably never happen).

mattgreenrocks• 15 years ago

Do you run into any pushback from potential clients when you tell them this?

getsat• 15 years ago

I imagine he does, but those are probably also the type of clients you don't want to be accepting anyways.

jeffreymcmanus• 15 years ago

We've turned away work from clients who can't deal with our requirement to get at least a token retainer up front. It becomes easier and easier to say no to these clients (even during lean times). After having done this for years, you think back to all the times when something goes wrong on the project and the client uses your invoice as leverage to do something stupid. Having a retainer means that payment of your invoices is not optional for them.

tptacek13• 15 years ago

We're a small company relative to the kinds of companies who usually contract out dev or tech work, and we will pay something up front. Probably closer to 25% than 50%, but we wouldn't get mad if you asked 50%.

I'm saying this as a data point for people just getting started who might be nervous about asking for payment up front. If we'll do it, I'm sure many other people will too. It's a reasonable request.

On the other hand, just so you know: we never ask for payment up front for our services, ever. That's because we'd almost never get it. Most companies with in-house finance and/or counsel aren't going to pay you anything in advance.

If I were freelancing, I'd ask for up-front payment, but I'd let the issue drop for any company I knew was large/established enough to pay me; if I was in a relationship with such a company and doubted the project really had legs, I'd just walk from the project.

idlewords• 15 years ago

An additional wrinkle is that oftentimes it can take a while to set up the mechanics of payment with a first-time client. So even if there is goodwill on both sides and a willingness to pay an initial deposit, you might not see the money until you've done quite a lot of work.

Since a lot of contract work is time-sensitive, waiting for payment to clear before starting work or handing over an initial milestone might not be an option. There's a tension between the desire to make a good impression on a first-time client and the desire to make sure they're not taking you for a ride.

Fortunately there are often warning signs when a client is going to be particularly difficult, and there are far more decent clients than unsavory ones.

qeorge2• 15 years ago

Just to add a +1, we're also totally OK with paying half upfront and half on delivery. Milestones are fine too if that's what vendors prefer, but I think 50/50 is easiest.

Once we've worked together, I'm happy to pay 100% upfront for anything < $2k. Its an easy (~free) way to improve the relationship. I recommend it to anyone who contracts out.

On the other side, we usually ask for 50% from new clients, but will let it drop if there's a good contract in place and/or we've worked together a bit. Much more concerned with getting paid than cashflow.

Agree that big companies are never going to pay upfront, it will be net 30 at best, take it or leave it. But never do anything on net 30 without a purchase order (PO). It can take a while (months, damn the invoice date) but you'll get paid eventually.

gcb• 15 years ago

i bet this one was on the lines "be my tech cofounder" kind of things. no one would be fooled by payment for 200 side-job hours. i think.

startupfounder• 15 years ago

Developers blog: http://fredwu.me/post/8254974029/its-year-2011-why-arent-peo...

gte910h• 15 years ago

I suggest incremental payments and a deposit for any work of any size (which this definitely counts of). We do 20% upfront, 50% on adhoc reasonably functional demo, and 30% before uploading to apple/releasing code.

My company's iPhone fixed fee contracts state that you surrender all rights to the work after a (long) term of non-payment and still owe the amount due so things just like this can be done when people just disappear off the face of the earth but yet salaries and contractors and artists still need to be paid for all that time.

chopsueyar• 15 years ago

You could always copyright and register the code with the uspto for $35 as a collection.

I believe statutory damages are $150,000 per infringement.

dkokelley3• 15 years ago

Publicizing your work may be a fun way to 'get back' at an nonpaying client, but is it good for business? Would the professional thing to do be to simply drop work on this client and move on, or is any publicity good publicity for the coder?

This is damaging to the client. Yes, they may have deserved it, but will future clients be discouraged by this behavior?

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying the coder was in the wrong in any way. That is to be determined based on whatever agreement existed between the coder and client. I'm asking if as a business decision it was wise to release the work. The client now has all of the work, and there is no possibility of reconciliation.

MercuryCreative• 15 years ago

I'm very doubtful future clients would be discouraged from working with the developer. Future employers might look sideways upon such behavior though.

tlrobinson• 15 years ago

On the other hand, it will discourage clients who might not have the ability to pay. The clients who can pay shouldn't have any reason to be worried.

cleaver• 15 years ago

I think you want to discourage them too.

ctide• 15 years ago

Future clients who have no intention of paying will probably be discouraged by this behavior.

simmons• 15 years ago

Why would the nonpaying client, or future potential clients, care what the developer does with his property? If they wanted it, they could have bought it from him. (I'm assuming that the developer didn't sign any IP assignments upfront, or is violating any NDAs or similar agreements about this code.)

If I was a sculptor and a client commissioned me to create a work of art, then didn't want it, surely nobody would fault me for donating the work to a local school instead of destroying it.

dkokelley3• 15 years ago

I disagree that the commissioned art analogy applies directly. My argument is that this was not a work of art, but a business tool, designed to provide the client with a competitive advantage. Donated art doesn't harm the commissioner, but publicizing this code CAN harm the client. A competitor can take this code and use it against the client now.

It does sound like there was no proper contract between the coder and client, which means there were probably no NDA or IP contingencies, which also explains why the coder was able to work for 200+ hours without seeing a dime. I believe the coder is in the right here. I just wonder if what he did was best for his career. It looks like most of HN agrees that it was.

danielharan2• 15 years ago

Great for the coder.

Potential for new contract work - either extending this or creating new work.

Having more code out on github is also a good way to get more employment opportunities.

bmelton• 15 years ago

On the contrary, I would think people would be be quite inclined to commission this developer so that the work would be done, and then they could just leverage the open source version he releases when they don't pay.

kenneth_reitz• 15 years ago

Debatable that it's bad for the client, since he didn't disclose who the client is.

It sounds to me like the guy was trying to scrape together funding while he was commissioning a developer to work on his "great idea". I was almost caught into a same situation once.

I'm vary wary of anyone who calls himself an entrepreneur.

dkokelley3• 15 years ago

The client's name doesn't need to be released for this to be damaging. This is work that the client wanted (and maybe already received beforehand). Now it's publicly available. It dilutes the value of what the client may have had. It may open the door for competitors.

NOTE: I'm not saying the client doesn't deserve any of the harm this may cause. I only want to show that there IS a potential for harm.

nknight• 15 years ago

Wouldn't a lawsuit be more damaging? Would future clients be wary of someone who appears litigious?

joshaidan2• 15 years ago

I doubt future clients would be discouraged by this kind of behaviour. The good clients, the kind you want, understand the value of work and the importance of being paid. They will no doubt be able to emphasize with this coder.

joshaidan2• 15 years ago

If anything, it shows future clients that this coder is hard working and can actually produce code and get projects done. That by itself insures your reputation.

quanticle• 15 years ago

This ensures that the coder gets some benefit from the code. At the very least he or she can use the code as example/demo code to show future clients. Yeah, its definitely not as good as monetary compensation, but its better than nothing.

dotmanish3• 15 years ago

It's akin to how attracted the opposite gender would be to you, if they knew you (however justly) burnt down a (bad) ex's house.

I have seen a friend of mine retaliating on her blogs against clients who didn't pay on time, etc.

And I also know at least 4 prospective clients (honest ones, they always paid in full and on time to their contractors) who got discouraged because they had witnessed the "worst" of this friend when things might not work out between her and the clients.

wtracy2• 15 years ago

Let's see, he did work for his client, never got paid, but handed over the work anyway. That seems like fantastic customer service right there. :-)

If diluting the client's competitive advantage is harmful to the client, then wouldn't anyone who releases a free product with equivalent functionality be responsible for hurting the client? Is in unethical to, say, release Apache because it dilutes Microsoft IIS? That doesn't seem like a reasonable standard.

Now, if the client provided proprietary information to the contractor (wireless toothbrushes are going to be big next year!) and that information was somehow baked into the now-open code (automatically flag all startups building wireless toothbrushes and move them to the top of the pile!) that would be less than ethical. I see no indication that this happened in this case.

molecule• 15 years ago

For those who would like to avoid this situation, Mike Monteiro (@Mike_FTW) has humorously useful advice for contractors:

F*ck You. Pay Me. http://vimeo.com/22053820

daimyoyo• 15 years ago

Awesome video. Not safe for work, but if you're freelancing, I'd HIGHLY recommend watching it.

megamark16• 15 years ago

When this video was first released I forwarded it to my attorney, who laughed and laughed, and then said "everything they said in that video is true".

driverdan• 15 years ago

How is it not work safe? If you can't say fuck at work it's time to find a new job.

donw• 15 years ago

Fantastic video, but doesn't apply in the case of the OP, who was doing work for a client in China, where the legal system doesn't work the same way.

In China, if you have an ironclad contract and no other leverage, you have no leverage.

In cases such as this, it's best to take payment up-front for a portion of the work, either in the form of a deposit (for fixed-bid), or a retainer (for hourly work).

This means you get money up front, which is nice. More importantly, you get something I like to call fiscal inertia -- namely, if a client has paid once, they're far more likely to pay in the future.

robtoo• 15 years ago

The client wouldn't pay, so he gives it to them for free anyway?

danielharan2• 15 years ago

The client likely can't afford to pay anyone to continue (and they should ask for payment upfront now, knowing their reputation).

They probably can't maintain it themselves either.

tsotha• 15 years ago

He also gave it to the client's competitors for free.

mbrzuzy2• 15 years ago

It's probably pretty much useless to them if everyone has it.

dotmanish3• 15 years ago

Not necessary. If you had the source code to FaceBook, most likely you won't be able to do much of it.

The one who is focused on running a business on it - yes, would make a lot of it. Irrespective of who else has the raw code.

musket• 15 years ago

If someone is interested enough in such a system, they can employ him to branch the project for their needs.

kaffeinecoma4• 15 years ago

He's trying to make the best of a bad situation- he put in a lot of time for which he was not compensated, but perhaps he can get some good PR out of it. Maybe down the road someone else will use his software and throw him some billable hours for customization.

r00fus• 15 years ago

This is a huge F-U move... and what a non-paying (deadbeat) client deserves.

alok-g• 15 years ago

Does someone know under which license is this released? Could not find this anywhere. Without the license specified, the author still retains the copyright.

Also, assuming this was a work for hire, not sure who the copyright belongs to (the author or the client) given the non-payment.

mmahemoff• 15 years ago

I wish people would include licenses even on first release, and Github could help with this. It's probably one area where Google Code has an advantage, by making the license explicit metadata.

I've generally had good results from mailing the creator when there's no license mentioned - they usually didn't bother and will add a license, and often quite flexible about which license.

Sandman• 15 years ago

Without the license specified, the author still retains the copyright.

Just one minor correction: The author holds the copyright regardless of whether the code is released under a license (open source or proprietary) or not. The fact that he is the copyright holder is what gives him the right to release the code under any license (and change the license later, should he wish to do so).

igorgue• 15 years ago

I love this since it's a Rails 3.1 application :-)

petegrif• 15 years ago

genius - what a guy!

yllus• 15 years ago

The only time I've been stiffed on a contract job was, surely enough, the one time I took the "project manager" I would be working for at her word and didn't require an up-front payment.

latchkey• 15 years ago

I don't get it. So instead of trying to get paid for your work, you give it to them for free because they won't pay you?

clarkevans2• 15 years ago

He could have been a bit more vindictive, perhaps a non-osi compliant license like:

"This code is licensed under MIT license with one exception: for 5 years, this license excludes any use which benefits directly or indirectly the current owners of UnPayingCompany, Inc. On Aug 1st, 2017, the license for this code is MIT without any restriction."

kaffeinecoma4• 15 years ago

Tempting and amusing, perhaps, but it wouldn't exactly put him in a flattering light as a contractor. It might even scare off potential future clients.

I think he's doing the right thing by releasing it as OSS. Hopefully he'll pick up some support hours if anyone actually ends up using it.

tptacek13• 15 years ago

Why would excluding his deadbeat client from using the code put him in an unflattering light?

clarkevans2• 15 years ago

I don't know why you got down voted here. My suggestion was flippant. Your comment was relevant and helpful.

tptacek13• 15 years ago

He should have AGPL3'd this code, and put a standing offer for a royalty-free unencumbered free license to anyone who contacts him directly. The net result would have been the same, but his deadbeat client wouldn't get the code for free.

pilif• 15 years ago

... because the AGPL would for sure stop them from using the code without giving anything back considering that they didn't even pay the author for his contract work.

tptacek13• 15 years ago

If the deadbeat client was using his work, he had recourse. It might take forever to chase his money down, but it's much easier to shut a site down.

By releasing the code under a permissive license, he gave up that recourse. His client's right to use the code is now a grey area. Technically, he has the same recourse in court as he did before; contracts. But he's severed the connection between that and the deployment of his code.

I'm not expressing nerdly outrage at how he did it. I'm simply suggesting a tactical refinement for the next person who decides to dump dox to Github when a client doesn't pay.

jtdowney• 15 years ago

That is assuming the deadbeat client cares about following license restrictions.

apgwoz• 15 years ago

Seems fairly enforceable and easy enough to prove. It just might take a while.

dotmanish3• 15 years ago

You could have auctioned the project's code. Even on HN.

shuri• 15 years ago

I wonder if he has the rights to use the code himself and/or allow others to use the code. The code is likely a product of a combination of specs, discussions, and his own work.

dfischer• 15 years ago

Holy shit the code is clean. Good job dude. I'm impressed by your .SCSS too. Good quality dev right here.

jawngee• 15 years ago

My standard contract terms:

* Deposit required, typically 25%, depends mostly on the estimated length of the project.

* Payment on milestones (typically first beta and completion, possibly more depending on length of project)

* I own the IP until paid in full

* 50% kill fee less deposit

Though, honestly, I prefer day rate over project based fees. If I do a day rate, payment is due every 15 days.

It's worth the $1-2K of going to a lawyer and getting a contract boiler plated.

It basically boils down to this though: You are in business, act like it. I don't do favors for clients I don't know. Once we establish trust and relationships, I become a lot more flexible.

I thought when I started implementing these terms that I would lose business, and I have lost a few projects because of them, but honestly if they can't respect the terms, they probably aren't going to respect your work and you'll be caught in that endless freelance/consultant cycle of hunting down payment.

It's your money though, do as you wish.

jdavid• 15 years ago

This should be standard contracting policy, with net terms and in the base contract.

jeremyarussell• 15 years ago

Seems to me like this was as good a solution as any. Plus now everyone can use the code, and I bet the individual who didn't pay will think twice about that again.

tomkarlo• 15 years ago

Something not noted: he's turned a negative event (getting stiffed) into positive exposure for his work with hundreds of HN readers. At least at a glance, it seems like solid and clean Rails / Ruby code (and I think I've seen some other commenters noting that as well.) I'd be surprised if this post didn't result in at least one new client down the road... nicely played.

yariang• 15 years ago

I keep getting a "Could not find sprockets-2.0.0.beta.10 in any of the sources" error when I try to bundle install. Anyone know what may be causing this?

fredwu• 15 years ago

Old Sprockets beta gems were yanked - not a cool way of doing things.

sean123452• 15 years ago

In the gem file change the rails version to gem 'rails', '~> 3.1.0.rc6'., then run bundle update. I also had an issue with the rake gem and resolved it with gem uninstall rake. Evidently the rake gem gets installed twice or something. Note, I am using Ruby 1.9.2, rvm.

sean123452• 15 years ago

The project is pretty good but not quite polished. For example the UI could be improved. There is no indication that anything has happened after signing up an account other than by checking the server log. The messaging system could use some work. Entering in a user name for the message recipient is kind of buggy.

Don_Wallace• 15 years ago

Asking for a deposit for a project does something very important: it pre-qualifies the party asking for the work in multiple dimensions.

Here's what I mean. If they can get you a check cut for a portion of the amount of the project, then you just learned three important things about them: (a) they take you and the project seriously and are committed to your doing it; (b) they have both the signing and check writing authority to commission the project; and (c) they are able to control their organization from their end in order to make the project happen.

If it is not a major corporation and you don't get a deposit up front and you just start working, then any number of bad things can happen:

- You find out that they never intended to pay and they consider your demands for payment a joke. - It turns out that they are powerless smurfs with no signing authority - It turns out that there is absolutely no support for the project internally

In any event, it then becomes a crap shoot for you. If you get a deposit it is possible that you may be stiffed on later payments, but it becomes highly unlikelier by orders of magnitude.

A signed purchase order from a large company should be enough to go on, I guess. I have always asked for deposits.

harishreddy• 15 years ago

Fred - thats an awesome move! Also, just realized that this project is now literally at the first position in today's trending repos on github.

badclient5• 15 years ago

Join the party. As someone who was recently ripped for $12k+, it's nice to see folks fighting back. In my case the work I did continues to remain online and in use by the original owner while I try to get l my client(who runs a sham design agency) into jail for writing returned checks--and having a history and a prior conviction of doing so.

mgkimsal• 15 years ago

This sham agency isn't in New York city by any chance, is it?

badclient5• 15 years ago

I wish(I'm in NYC). They are in San Francisco.

tjmc• 15 years ago

Have you considered using a debt collection agency? On the first consulting gig I ever did, I was owed $10K by a client who refused to pay. After months of patience, including offers to let them pay off the debt over time I went to a collection agency and got the lot back in a court settlement less $1k in fees for the agency (which at least was tax deductable).

I should mention that this was in Australia and I had a pretty solid contract. So this may not apply to you, but the debt collector took the hassle out of chasing it up and I didn't have to get involved in the court proceedings. It might be worth a look.

For anyone who's contracting I'd recommend a few things:

1. Always have a contract and make sure you get advice before you sign it.

2. Don't be afraid to change or negotiate terms if you need to. Look out for excessive IP restrictions and restraint of trade clauses.

3. If you're doing per-diem work, get signed weekly timesheets. They're a legal record of work done.

4. If you're building a product for a fixed price, contractually define milestone payments and ideally get a partial payment up front.

5. If a client can't or won't pay at any point, stop work until they do!

badclient5• 15 years ago

This guy is far beyond the reach of debt collection agency. He has multiple active civil cases re: money owed. His own former lawyers have been owed money to and have obtained default judgement against him and yet have not been able to collect money as of my last conversation.

citricsquid• 15 years ago

I don't understand how you get involved with a client like this and never take payment. Care to explain? Curious as I don't freelance. Surely you take a deposit upfront and vet the client?

badclient5• 15 years ago

I did the routine vetting on google which pulled up only the good stuff: speaking engagements at conferences like ad:tech and multiple interviews. "Pretty legit guy" I thought.

It wasn't until three returned checks, barrage of excuses and threats that I came out of my delusion and realized the guy is a scumbag. A true scumbag: the original client that his agency was hired by had paid the agency--probably several times what was owed to me. And yet, the schmuck owner of the agency thought it'd be better to cheap me than pay me my fair slice of what he made.

KrijgDeMeuk• 15 years ago

I once came close to opensourcing an applicaton because the client refused to pay. I was making preparations for the opensourcing, but he came trough at the last moment.

vilda• 15 years ago

This is abandon-ware. I saw a lot of similar projects leaved open sourced which died quickly in no-relevance. What a difference between healthy open source project where you get support and bugs fixed...

ajhai• 15 years ago

I worked on a project around a year back (something like fetch.io, but a stripped version) and had a deal with the employer that we'll be sharing the profits that are made from the service. He invested on the servers and the premium accounts with various file hosting services. I took care of the entire application. But he scrapped that project even before the beta is launched saying that the operation costs are more and he see no point in launching the service and also partly because of the legal issues involved in downloading and distributing content from other services. After reading this post, I feel like I should open source the code that I'm not using now.

cyphersanctus• 15 years ago

Where can we see an online version of his project? The end product.

Developer open-sources 200+ hr project after client refuses to pay

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