Apple announces ‘One More Thing’ event for November 10th

https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/2/21546136/apple-event-date-time-november-10th-one-more-thing-arm-mac-silicon

by willswire • 6 years ago

113 127 6 years ago

theverge.com

unicornporn4• 6 years ago

I'm getting closer and closer to that Linux transition I've been putting off for years.

mlindner6• 6 years ago

Because Apple is switching to Arm for better performance?

1_player• 6 years ago

[benchmarks needed]

redvenom2• 6 years ago

Well, Apple is moving towards increasingly locked down systems. For example, it is very difficult if not impossible to install Linux on the most recent Macbooks. Previously when Apple stopped supporting a Mac, you could install Linux on it. I suspect with the ARM systems going forward, that will become even more difficult.

In other words, it is not just about better performance. It is also about Apple removing your freedoms with your own hardware in the name of 'security'. (I am not saying that there isn't increased security, but at what price?)

Shivetya• 6 years ago

better performance only if your desired software runs on the new processor. if not then what do you have?

I am a light weight user in the Mac world, browsing and some games. However the few games left after the Catalina change to drop 32 bit support are still important to me. One of the publishers has preemptively dropped support for Mac and its near impossible to tell if others will continue support into AS.

I know, there is a crowd out there that loves to declare "you should not use your Mac for games" along with "Buy a system for games then". Well let me be blunt, if it cannot serve both purposes then it serves none which means leaving the platform behind.

So I look at AS with excitement and trepidation all at the same time with the realization my current Mac may well be my last.

unicornporn4• 6 years ago

Because Apple is switching to Arm for better performance?

Because I wont be able to run Windows in Fusion without a very big performance hit.

chelovek89• 6 years ago

If you value the attention to aesthetics and UX Apple has you might want to give Pop! OS a try. It's based on Ubuntu.

acidbaseextract• 6 years ago

Cool — one of the major blockers on moving to Linux for me was fractional scaling support. I have 4K monitors but can't use them with tiny text.

I like PopOS a lot, but they didn't have fractional scaling support. It looks like they do now as of Oct 5!

socialdemocrat8• 6 years ago

Ubuntu is a pretty good substitute for macOS. My key issue with Linux is the small selection of productivity apps: markdown editors, code editors, drawing packages, password managers like 1Password. Feature rich terminal apps like iTerm2. Well designed Git UI clients like Tower etc.

The rest is pretty good. Like the core UI, file manager, virtual desktop management, configuration etc works very well. Much nicer than the Windows mess.

unicornporn4• 6 years ago

I'm already trying out Manjaro XFCE and I'm liking it a lot.

snazz4• 6 years ago

If anything, Arm MacBooks have a huge advantage over my current (old) ThinkPad—battery life and performance per watt will be significantly better. I haven't read much more about the new virtualization tech that was announced at WWDC, but that's also exciting for running Linux on the Mac.

What about Arm Macs pushes you away from the platform?

andrekandre2• 6 years ago

not the op, but for me...

1. the big sur ui is not very attractive (i know it sounds arbitrary, but big sur just looks very non-desktop, very fischer price, and i have no alterantive since catalina wont be supported)

2. virtualization for x86_64 apps, that wont last forever, and at some point those x86 binaries wont work anymore (i already lost a ton of apps with catalina...)

3. for my work i already need vmware alot, and the idea of running even half-speed at best is a non-starter

that being said, as a consummer oriented device, or an iphone/ipad app developer machine i think its defintely going to do well

ricketycricket2• 6 years ago

You'll have to run ARM linux on the Mac. x86 Linux and Windows cannot be virtualized with Apple's Rosetta 2: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou...

unicornporn4• 6 years ago

What about Arm Macs pushes you away from the platform?

I need to be able to run Windows in Fusion or Parallels without emulating x86.

na85• 6 years ago

Moving from Intel to ARM is a reason to stay with Mac if you ask me. Intel has been holding computing back with their inefficient architecture, and anything that drives innovation away from x86 is a good thing in my mind.

Much as I dislike some of Apple's practices I think making ARM more mainstream is a trend I want to see continue.

jbverschoor5• 6 years ago

Exactly, and maybe arm clouds will be more popular

api• 6 years ago

No idea why this is being downvoted. Does anyone here like the X86 ISA? Sure its been made fast, but that's been quite an uphill battle against things like its complex instruction decoders and limited decoder parallelism. If the same engineering had been put into making ARM fast, ARM would be far faster than X86 is today.

coolspot3• 6 years ago

Speaking from experience, just do not try any fringe distro. Pick one of the top 3 popular ones - they are much better in little things that you will appreciate.

klodolph2• 6 years ago

It’s good advice but I’m not sure how you count “top 3 popular distros” these days.

A lot of people into Linux seem to go through a phase where they try out a rolling release distro like Arch or Gentoo, and then after a couple years get sick of dealing with broken systems & switch to something more stable like Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/Mint/etc. As I get older, the amount of system administration and customization of my system that I want to do is dropping rapidly. I barely even change the desktop wallpaper any more.

john_alan3• 6 years ago

Yeah. I’m a long time Mac user. Like 17 years, I’m keen on it because UNIX and pretty.

I was looking at Arch + KDE plasma and it’s really tempting.

I returned a 16inch MBP recently as it kept crashing on shutdown. macOS on intel is a mess and so is the T2. And I’m a fanboy.

I’ve made a deal with myself. If these new Apple Si machines are blow away I’ll try again. Else I’m buying a Lenovo Legion and moving to Arch.

Not sure what to do for a phone but probably stay with iOS.

eecc• 6 years ago

I'm currently waiting (and cursing) Lenovo for delaying delivery of the AMD T14 I paid for in September.

I'm a bit worried for my precious free time that will be wasted on fending off the thousand-cuts onslaught of bugs, but I'm willing to try.

It's gotten to this Tim (and Jony). After ~15 uninterrupted years.

coldtea8• 6 years ago

I returned a 16inch MBP recently as it kept crashing on shutdown. macOS on intel is a mess and so is the T2. And I’m a fanboy.

macOS on Intel is a mess because a particular 16inch MBP "kept crashing on shutdown"? As if Windows and Linux running machines don't have cases where they keep running on shutdown?

macOS/T2 has bugs like all software, but this is not some general state of macOS/T2, which runs fine without "crashing on shutdown" for hundreds of millions of other people (including those with MBP16).

How about it's some particular production run / unit, and or some particular app?

(Which can happen for any vendor / OS)

coldtea8• 6 years ago

Don't let the door hit you on your way out...

Austin_Conlon• 6 years ago

Will 2021 be the year of desktop ARM?

klelatti5• 6 years ago

Could be. Pi and Mac announcements on the same day!

sys_64738• 6 years ago

I couldn't transition to a Linux laptop as I don't think it has optimal battery life nor does the trackpad feel as Mac-like as I need it to be. But I could see ARM Mac laptops being used by a lot of people for connecting to real systems that are still x86. In other words, the Mac laptop is a browser machine or a display to a real work VM.

I think ARM is the nail in the coffin of the non-laptop Mac brand though.

john_alan3• 6 years ago

Why you don’t think arm can function on iMac scale?

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/02/apple-smaller-mac-pro-a...

socialdemocrat8• 6 years ago

You say that because you think ARM gives toy performance when everything actually points to Apple Silicon will be a performance beast. It may not beat the big x86 gaming rigs but I am quite confident that the highest performance laptops of any kind in the next few year will all be ARM based.

iMac and Mac Mini are also small enclosures which will benefit from ARM performance wise.

All that matters is really watt per performance and dollars relative to performance and there ARM already beats intel. To beat an x86 intel is just a matter of throwing in enough cores.

AMD will be harder as their performance relative to cost is better than ARM and intel. But there is nothing special about beating intel at this point.

midrus• 6 years ago

I already did. Couldn't be happier.

jp572• 6 years ago

The event is called "One More Thing". They are applying the same counting they used their AppleOne subscription bundles, there will be three new products announced at the event.

kposehn• 6 years ago

How’d you arrive at this? Just curious.

jp572• 6 years ago

AppleOne is actually three different plans, not one.

Mayzie• 6 years ago

If that is the case, fingers crossed there will be a new Apple TV then.

akmarinov• 6 years ago

Half life 3 confirmed

phendrenad22• 6 years ago

This is the company equivalent of a remake of an 80s movie repeating the one iconic quote 3 times in the trailer.

mcphage• 6 years ago

I had thought so, too—but the article claims that Apple last used it in 2017... I think that's scarce enough that it doesn't qualify as 'overuse'.

cknoxrun• 6 years ago

I think it's become a tradition at the company, part of the culture that people can rally around for big releases. Not a bad thing I don't think!

LIV2• 6 years ago

Our most advanced <thing> yet!

pwinnski• 6 years ago

That you associate "one more thing" with Apple speaks to the phrase's recognition power, not its frequency of use: it's been three years since Apple last used it.

phendrenad22• 6 years ago

Wow, you're right. They save it for big occasions it seems. I take back my snarky joke heh

marwan-nwh• 6 years ago

Is that how news works these days? they didn't say anything about chips.

snazz4• 6 years ago

In June, they promised that the first Apple Silicon Mac would be released by the end of the year. It's unlikely that they will have a fourth fall/winter event.

bnj• 6 years ago

It’s definitely unlikely but as someone who’s often guilty of only reading the headlines I’m uncomfortable with it presenting something as fact like this.

This event really has to be about the Apple silicon machines— but that’s not what was announced and the headline shouldn’t say it was.

tomekw• 6 years ago

I hope they just release a refreshed Mac Mini!

coolspot3• 6 years ago

They likely will. The dev kit for arm mac is mac mini.

xt00• 6 years ago

The various angles in that image reminded me of the silicon cutting planes... I wonder if they were trying to message that..

jbverschoor5• 6 years ago

Please let there be a 14” formfactor

_ph_2• 6 years ago

Considering that they moved from 15" to 16" by reducing the bezels, moving the smaller laptops to 14" would be the logical conclusion. Screen estate is precious, especially in the smaller machines. I would be totally in for a 14" AS Mac :)

klelatti5• 6 years ago

The focus is on the move to ARM ISA but just as interesting will be what Apple manages to do with the rest of the silicon - bringing its gpu and neural engine to the laptop / desktop.

socialdemocrat8• 6 years ago

Exactly a tightly integrated SoC could revolutionize high performance at low price points, giving low end MacBooks performance that may rival far more expensive PC laptops.

joakleaf• 6 years ago

After the introduction of the Intel iMac at MacWorld Expo 2006, the Intel MacBook Pro was the "one more thing".

https://www.macworld.com/article/1048842/livekeynote.html https://www.wired.com/2006/01/one-more-thing-/

mortenjorck• 6 years ago

Perhaps the most eyebrow-raising part of the WWDC ARM transition announcement was the promise that Apple Silicon Macs would be able to run iOS software. People mostly seem to have just accepted it at face value, perhaps with the idea that "oh, there will be a touchscreen MacBook," but this doesn't really capture the breadth of what this will entail.

Apple has, of course, famously resisted the hybrid/convertible form factor, a decision largely proven right by Microsoft's advance into and subsequent retreat from a universal touch-and-pointer UI in Windows 8. The addition of trackpad support to iPadOS this year was an interesting hybrid-like evolution of Apple's tablet UI, but something as complex as MacOS is going to be a lot harder to take in the other direction without turning into Windows 8.

Whatever Apple's solution is to avoid making the Mac into a "fridge-toaster" will be unveiled alongside the new hardware, and I'm quite curious what it will be.

post_break• 6 years ago

Apple said stylus's were dumb and no one would want one. Apple Pencil comes out. Touch screen Macbook pro seems like it would never happen, then Big Sur looks like it has touch targets made for fingers. The iPad keyboard dock thing looks very much like microsoft surface, especially the logitech offerings that you know where designed in part of help with Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a Macbook Pro that either swivels all the way around like a Lenovo and has a touch screen.

socialdemocrat8• 6 years ago

I think the key point Steve Jobs was making is that you don’t want a stylus as a requirement for interacting with the OS. As someone who used Palm OS, I totally get what he was talking about when iOS was released. A stylus for general interaction was not a good choice.

However for drawing and writing a stylus is very nice. But that is a much smaller user segment than those benefitting from a touch interface.

threeseed• 6 years ago

iOS developers use the iPhone Simulator everyday to build their apps.

It doesn't require a touchscreen and I would be very surprised if any apps are unusable without it.

jayd16• 6 years ago

retreat from a universal touch-and-pointer UI in Windows 8

Huh? What? Doesn't everything bit of hardware Microsoft sells have a touchscreen? Windows 10 has solid touchscreen support. Why are we talking about Windows 8 or a retreat?

neogodless2• 6 years ago

Windows 8 was launched with a primary touch interface that emerged after closing apps, even if they were "desktop" apps. 8.1 retreated somewhat but Windows 10 went even further back to the default point-and-click Start Menu interface, while retaining touch elements like tiles, and introducing some other touch-friendly changes. Compared to 8 at launch it's much friendlier to the mouse and keyboard users.

untog• 6 years ago

I think it's been accepted at face value because all of the component parts are already available to the public: Mac Catalyst already allows iPad apps to be used on the Mac, and XCode's iOS Simulator already runs apps natively (by compiling to Intel rather than ARM).

binarynate• 6 years ago

I won't be able to move from Intel to ARM for the foreseeable future because I rely on Bootcamp / Parallels for Windows development, but it will still be interesting to see the new hardware. Big Sur's UI is obviously designed for touch, so I will be shocked if they don't release a touch screen Mac or a tablet that runs macOS. Now that they've worked out how to ship touchscreen Macs, hopefully that means they'll finally offer MacBook Pros without touchbars.

glhaynes• 6 years ago

We'll see of course, but I don't personally find it obvious at all that Big Sur is designed for touch. Or, if so, it's only an incidental byproduct of them applying a consistent style between iOS-iPadOS-macOS as they make it easier to make apps that run across all those platforms. I'll be surprised if macOS hardware gets touch versus iPadOS just growing into more and more of macOS's current roles.

mrweasel2• 6 years ago

That raises an interesting point: Is it the existence of the iPad Pro that prevents Apple from moving forward on touch screen laptops. Introducing a touch screen MacBook could completely kill the iPad Pro and I'm not sure that Apple want to lose that market.

Still it could be that they still firmly believe that touch screen on laptops are unnecessary and provides a poor user experience, something that I happen to believe that they would be right in.

mrweasel2• 6 years ago

The library of available software will certainly be interesting. I can easily move to ARM, assuming Python, Bash and SSH works, but it would be easier, if I can expect AMD64 emulation/virtualisation in conjuction with Docker. Being able to run ARM based Docker images currently isn’t that useful.

While I would love to see the touchbar go away, I don’t see any use case from a touch screen on laptops, in my line of work. It’s just as much a gimmick as the touchbar, in my case. If they do introduce it, I would hope it’s optional, like the touchbar should be.

socialdemocrat8• 6 years ago

With Amazon offering cheap high performance ARM hardware in the cloud ARM based docker containers will be very useful in the future.

socialdemocrat8• 6 years ago

No there will be no touch screen Mac. People have kept saying this for years, yet it never happens. Why? Because it is a terrible idea, and we don’t want it.

If you want a touch based OS from Apple, then that already exists. It is called iOS.

Why would you want a touch interface on an interface optimized for mouse and keyboard?

You cannot have both. What works well for touch will be terrible with a keyboard/mouse interface.

Microsoft was morons trying to merge the two paradigms. Win 10 is one of the worst OS’s I have used.

arm• 6 years ago

Apple has already announced ARM-based Macs will support running iOS apps. While they’d technically be usable without a touchscreen, I’d expect the user experience to be quite bad; especially for iOS games.

dblooman• 6 years ago

The 16inch MBP has replaced pretty much every laptop at work this year. I know we were holding off because nobody wanted the old keyboard. These will last 3+ years, so Apple have some time to screw around and get software updated while companies stick with old hardware. I hope they announce when they will stop making intel MBPs, as that is the real date when Apple silicon becomes real for most people.

biztos• 6 years ago

Have people at your work generally been happy with the 16" MBPs?

I had one, top of the line, and I hated it -- it ran crazy hot all the time even when I wasn't doing much of anything. Connected to an external monitor, it would fan up just from surfing ordinary sites with Safari. From lots of googling around it seemed that many, many people had this problem.

I was actually quite thrilled when I was able to send it back to HQ, and am now back to loving my 2014 13" MBP.

Having dealt with those thermal engineering problems, I am both very hopeful for Apple Silicon, and very wary of buying newest-release Macs.

raihansaputra• 6 years ago

I have the i7 and it works well without too much heat/fan noise, even when connected to a 4k monitor. On my team the chatter was the i9 is known to have heat problems.

spike021• 6 years ago

I would personally love a new Silicon Mac Mini.

I don't need a crazy desktop computer at this point but I already have a 34-inch ultrawide 4K monitor. I'm even willing to try the new system architecture as a computer.

Clearly Apple has considered this at least for the initial developer model. So I'd love if they decide to also put out a consumer one with the final Silicon SOC.

dang2• 6 years ago

This is an announcement of an announcement. Those are off topic.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

It's in companies' (and the websites' who write about them) interest to make it to the trough as many times as possible, but our interest is to wait until there's something new to discuss.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

_ph_2• 6 years ago

Actually, it is the announcement of an event, many of the HN readers might want to follow. So posting a link that informs about the event seems not to be off-topic to me. I wouldn't want to miss the event so I am happy the link appeared here on HN.

JohnDeHope• 6 years ago

I’d love a tagging system a la steam game tags where announce-of-announcement was a tag with a community of interested and engaged people who were vetting and tagging and hashing out what it means to be an announcement of an announcement. And then also there could be another community of similarly minded announcement-of-event people, likely with a bit of Venn diagram overlap, operating independently. And so on and so forth.

pvg• 6 years ago

There are lots of places to learn about a major Apple event (if anything, it's hard to miss it) that aren't the 30 slots on the HN front page. Yours is a variant of the 'everything is related to everything somehow' rationale with which you can argue anything is on-topic on any form that has topic rules. It's a fun argument but makes for lousy forums.

dang2• 6 years ago

I hear you and yes, that is valuable. We have to optimize for the general case, though. It definitely isn't optimal to have threads like this one, and then another when the actual announcement is made, and then probably another thread when $thing is eventually released.

gumby5• 6 years ago

I’m hoping for more iOS component integration. Specifically things like a better camera + IR to do face recognition. Smaller and lighter devices. Maybe even better waterproofing — doesn’t matter to me but the kids are more careless.

kristianp• 6 years ago

The way the white and blue light comes out of the bite in the apple logo, it's reminiscent of a projector. Apple movies?

Apple announces ‘One More Thing’ event for November 10th

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