Mastodon 3.2

https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2020/08/mastodon-3.2/

by jrepinc • 6 years ago

274 135 6 years ago

blog.joinmastodon.org

rglullis10• 6 years ago

Ah, so this is why there is a seemingly-random post to Pleroma on the front-page as well.

Competition is good. I just wish this competition stays healthy and these projects cooperate more to fight against the centralized social networks instead of each other.

stryan• 6 years ago

Pretty sure Gargron and lain talk on a semi-regular basis and are on good terms with each other, so hopefully it will.

gargron4• 6 years ago

Correct, we're on good terms.

ve55• 6 years ago

Honestly I was just randomly going around the Internet and found a Pleroma instance and thought it looked cool, so submitted it. I didn't see the Mastodon submission beforehand, which I'm also a fan of. I do think it seems decently collaborative for now, so not too worried. Getting normal users to use anything other than the large winner in an area (Twitter, Reddit, Discord, etc) is what the true challenge is imo.

Vaslo• 6 years ago

I’ll be that techno neophyte and say that I don’t really understand how to use Mastodon properly. I’m able to get on and read posts but no idea if I’m where I want to be. I want to be on a very free speech and open server, even at the cost of having some human trash posting nonsense on there. What’s the best approach? I’m tired of seeing a handful of kids at Twitter decide what is appropriate to post or not.

drexlspivey• 6 years ago

Mastodon is federated which means you want to pick an instance that follows the moderation principles you adhere to, the instance you are on determines your "local" timeline while the federation of all the instances is the "global" timeline. This link should be a good start to decide which instance you want to join https://joinmastodon.org/

zanny2• 6 years ago

The joinmastodon.org site curates the instances it recommends to only show ones that don't permit racism, sexism and transphobia. OP seemingly wants those on their instance so they won't find it there, and they also won't find them in the global timeline on the "mainline" fediverse because those instances are banned for obvious and good reasons.

You can, however, probably find links into the alt-right sphere fediverse on the chans. And they would be federating together so you can trace those instances to find one you, uh, want.

carry_bit• 6 years ago

If that's what you want, you can use the Gab instance.

rglullis10• 6 years ago

I know you're being facetious, but Gab announced they are going to shut down federation.

rglullis10• 6 years ago

The best approach is always to run your own.

The second-best approach is to run a managed instance via something like masto.host or spacebear (https://app.spacebear.ee/).

The third-best approach is to join an instance that is (a) neutral in its content and (b) not overbearing in its moderation policies. Most of those listed on joinmastodon fail this test.

I am running a instance at https://mastodon.communick.com, and my moderation policy is basically "don't post anything illegal and follow the Silver Rule - don't treat others in a way you wouldn't like to be treated".

mobiledev2014• 6 years ago

The golden rule got demoted to silver? Damn, times are tough all over.

INTPenis3• 6 years ago

I don't advertise my instance, it also blocks registrations from anyone outside of EU, but I have the same policy.

I'm as left as left gets, my family and friends are made up of several activists. But I also am annoyed with how hate speech and right wing people are moderated.

My opinion is that they should first of all be reasoned with. And if you can't reason with them then each user may block them on their own.

But to just block their entire instance, or "Gab", is to sweep a bunch of HUMANS under the carpet and not even attempt to communicate with them. That goes against my core principles.

olah_13• 6 years ago

The worst thing about ActivityPub and federation is the hefty resources it costs to run them. Same issue with Matrix.

It’s impossible to make a profitable business hosting servers For people because of how horrifyingly inefficient they are.

$5 for the lowest tier for all apps on spacebear. If you want all apps that’s like $20 per month. This is the future the fediverse wants? That’s awful.

young_unixer• 6 years ago

If you want free speech, avoid anything listed on joinmastodon.org, as that site lists only instances with censorship.

I joined Gab, but unfortunately most of the posts are political and very US centric. I care primarily about tech, so in the end I don't use Mastodon.

kabacha6• 6 years ago

I want to be on a very free speech and open server

Mastodon and most of fediverse is very conservative in that regard. Chinese "communist" propaganda is fine though, so it's very much controlled by handful of vocal kids.

It's the same project that has two different block buttons and yet has a rule against replying to people who indicate that they don't want to be replied to lol

There are chill instances though — look for smaller niche ones that don't focus political discussions.

askxnakjsn• 6 years ago

What could you possibly want to post that might get taken down by twitter? Unless you post actual nazi propaganda or violence or something, it's a pretty free place. Remembering that freedom means people get to tell you to shut up, of course.

mxuribe• 6 years ago

I like the personal note feature. Somewhat CRM-esque, and i can see it being quite handy. I'm a pleroma user (run my own single-person instance), and before that used/ran a gnu social instance, but i have always felt that what gargron and the early mastodon folks have done for bringing more attention to the fediverse for laypeople is a wonderful thing! Kudos to the mastodon folks for this update! The more options that exist for the fediverse, the less relevant the centralized silos become (i know, there's a looooong way to go, but still).

wronglebowski• 6 years ago

If I just wanted to host my own instance for my family to post news and updates on would that be a suitable use case for Mastodon?

I realize it can be federated, but just a singular isolated FB/Twitter clone would be ideal.

danielheath• 6 years ago

It’s a rails app. I love rails (and activitypub), and I use rails for work frequently, but it comes with substantial operational load (postgres, redis, worker nodes, process supervision, media storage, backups, high ram use, etc).

If that doesn’t scare you off, then go for it!

If you don’t want the federation, I’d suggest looking for something lighter.

shoover2• 6 years ago

It’s a little heavy, but I can say it runs fine in a 1 GB VPS, with the addition of a 1 GB swap file to compile the front end during installation and upgrade.

shoover2• 6 years ago

Yep. There are even settings to require a login to view any content, designed for private instances such as for classrooms, which effectively locks down the instance. That’s how I use it for my family.

rglullis10• 6 years ago

It certainly is a valid use-case, but if you want something that is simpler to manage, look at pleroma and the Soapbox frontend. Pleroma takes way less resources and you'd be able to run on a Raspberry PI.

Another thing to consider, though, is to not run something like a social network and instead just get matrix and create group rooms for your family? Everyone would still be able to share updates and even call each other. Not only you eliminate the need of Facebook, but also WhatsApp/Messenger.

lainsoykaf2• 6 years ago

I run a matrix server myself and can not really recommend doing so. It takes a lot of resources and the way e2ee is done is at least questionable.

abbub• 6 years ago

Yeah, I spent a couple hours today trying to get pleroma installed on a pi4. Pleroma unhappy about the elixir version, elixir unhappy about erlang version. What a mess. Simple is not a word I think can be associated with it.

Tenobrus• 6 years ago

Does anyone know how I can filter out non-english posts from Mastodon? I set up an account and followed some people back in 2017, but it's unusable for me now since I can't read 70% of the content in any of my timelines.

link0ff2• 6 years ago

What is really missing is a "Translate" button under non-english posts.

plussed_reader• 6 years ago

Who do you give the message for the translation? Big G? Babel?

bremensaki• 6 years ago

In your account Preferences, under "Other" there's a checklist where you can specify what languages you want to see on timelines. If you don't select any, there's no filtering.

kabacha6• 6 years ago

it never really worked though.

throwawaysea• 6 years ago

What is the point of Mastodon if its creators practice the very censorship that centralized platforms like Twitter and Reddit practice? I feel like I can’t trust a platform/protocol whose controllers harbor anti free speech views. https://reclaimthenet.org/mastodon-blocks-gab/

zaptrem• 6 years ago

The point seems to be increased privacy/no tracking/ads. Also, there's no penalty to starting your own server with entirely your own rules.

egypturnash3• 6 years ago

It’s decentralized censorship. Run your own and you’re free to accept anything you like. Be warned that if your instance’s about page says you’re all for “free speech”, a lot of other admins will casually block your entire instance if you and/or your users start violating their rules of behavior, what with a general tendency for “free speech” instances to end up as havens for trolling and racism.

WrongThinkerNo52• 6 years ago

You are fundamentally missing the point. That mentality though perfectly exemplifies the inherent and likely existential flaw in Mastodon or any other alternative technology that says "diversity" and "equality" and "inclusion" out of one side of their mouth, while out of the other side comes "your color and views are unacceptable and contrary facts are not allowed" … and it's all said, totally without even a shred of self-awareness of their tyrannical, let alone hypocritical nature.

DuskStar• 6 years ago

Can I setup my own instance that peers with 5 of the top servers by user count at the same time? So pawoo.net, mastodon.social, switter.at, joindiaspora.com and gab.com?

Or will some instances ban you by association?

yborg• 6 years ago

I can't trust an open protocol and platform that lets me set up a server and peer with Gab today with no restriction

It's Gab that didn't get the point of Mastodon, thinking they could somehow monopolize (and monetize) the Fediverse, and then getting mad when they found out a decentralized peering system doesn't mean a captive audience they could firehose.

fwn• 6 years ago

Just to highlight: That quote is partly rewritten to say something different.

nikolay• 6 years ago

Wow! This is some heavy piece of software... given the managed hosting has something like 20 reqs/sec. Are we back in the 90s?!

FreakyT2• 6 years ago

I still can’t believe they expect anyone to take Mastodon seriously when the main action in the app is called “tooting”. Yes devs, we get it, it’s a hilarious fart joke and you’re so clever.

procinct• 6 years ago

I thought it was supposed to be more like a mastodon tooting with it’s trunk?

FreakyT2• 6 years ago

Well of course, but since the word can mean both things, it’s a pun regardless of whether or not the devs intended it to be one.

felbane• 6 years ago

I'm 99% sure that word was chosen because it's the onomatopoeia for a mastodon blowing its trunk and it's very similar to the word "tweeting".

Nextgrid• 6 years ago

True but it doesn't really matter. When your brand name is synonymous with something unpleasant, most people won't try to decide whether it's intentional or not. There's a reason why you typically wouldn't pick words that have offensive/unpleasant meanings when branding commercial products.

anw• 6 years ago

I'm happy there is a way to get people off of Twitter, but I do not see Mastodon having a (good) long term future.

I have tried Mastodon off and on several times. For the few amount of good posts I've found in my interests (art and music), venturing out of those interests feels as if I'm wading into a toxic sludge of angry children who can't see beyond their nose.

It seems to be that the Twitter format leads itself into being a great place for angry people to constantly barrage their woes at the immovable world [0].

I understand that the world is cruel and unfair, but I also do not want a constant 24/7 cry of lament that only people who meet every criteria of every type of victim-hood can have a bad day and anybody else is an evil pig who doesn't deserve to live, let alone speak. This can be seen in both to the left-wing and right-wing instances as they both see themselves as perpetual victims from those in power (police, companies, government, soceity on the left, and media, companies, government, society on the right).

This kind of vitriol is already seen enough on Twitter. Seeing it even more so in self-enclosed echo chambers like some Mastodon instances just drives away any potential for normalcy, and therefore realistic ideas or normal conversation coming into their community. The loudest voices drown out others, claiming to have the right answer before they know the question, and not hearing out any arguments or facts that could possibly counter them.

I wish the best for those who join, but hope we find better means of communication than what is currently here. Perhaps a method where there is more talking and hashing out ideas rather than following trends and hashtags.

[0] Somewhat reminiscent to this video by The Onion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjonGtrCyVE

kabacha6• 6 years ago

This gets very apparent when you take a peek at ruleset of many instances. For example my instance mastodon.technology just added a rule:

* No unsolicited advice to strangers.

when someone asked what's wrong with recommending alternative software to people who complain about software the reply was:

sometimes people just want to scream into the void

Which summarizes this micro-blog screamverse perfectly. The fact that this sort of behavior is _encouraged_ is actually quite disgusting in my honest opinion.

I've never used much Twitter but to me it already seems that Mastodon is just as toxic as Twitter and it seems to be by design.

ShamelessC3• 6 years ago

That's such a strange rule to have for a tech instance. Is there really no better reason for it than that people want to bitch about things without actually wanting a suggestion on how to solve their issues?

holler• 6 years ago

Perhaps a method where there is more talking and hashing out ideas rather than following trends and hashtags.

I have limited experience with Mastodon but I share many of your sentiments about Twitter and the current state of conversation on the internet. I think part of the problem is that Twitter (and Mastodon), are not optimized for actual realtime conversation, and additionally we need more competition.

I'm working on a new chat-based discussion site that I hope will add another option for people looking to have real conversations, in a very open, sharable, and simple experience that's easy for anyone to hop into and talk. Feel free to check it out, cheers! https://sqwok.im

amatecha2• 6 years ago

I've used Twitter for 13 years and Mastodon for 4... and have seen almost zero toxicity or arguments on Mastodon (in stark contrast with Twitter, of course). That said, I'm on a smaller instance and I don't "browse the fediverse" much, I stick to my crew of "locals", mostly. It's easy to filter out stuff you don't want to hear about, but honestly I haven't even found the need. More and more frequently I'm considering just closing my Twitter account -- as many of my friends have already done.

WrongThinkerNo52• 6 years ago

You are unfortunately describing things that are separate from any "social network", they are unhealthy and detrimental behaviors that have metastasized and are manifest in society today in general, mirrored and amplified online where people can find whatever pity party echo chamber they fall into, which will then only be amplified through self-reinforced "moderation", aka censorship.

It's actually precisely why we need free speech more than ever, because those who withdraw into self-censored echo chambers need to hear things that are not their favorite things to hear even more than those who demand free speech. Not doing so will only end poorly.

art4ur• 6 years ago

That audio player looks fantastic.

kabacha6• 6 years ago

It does look great though now that I think of it I've never seen anyone share audio on mastodon before; maybe this new change could help build musician communities on Mastodon.

MikeD9• 6 years ago

Something I read on the internet the other day: Rails is so old technology and it does not scale. It's days are numbered but until then, let's use mastodom for private social network, host our projects on github.com, use stripe for our payments, get funded on kickstarter, stream our videos on twitch.

joelbluminator• 6 years ago

You were being sarcastic , not sure why you're downvoted. Yes, it's pretty ignorant to say you can't build stuff of scale with Rails, there are so many multi billion companies running on Rails it's getting ridiculous. Shopify is slowly becoming the size of Oracle in terms of market cap. So the next argument is yes you can build it with Rails but why not choose something productive AND performant like (Go / Elixir / Kotlin / Crystal / Node etc etc). I think you can build anything with anything nowadays. Rails is still one of the leading options, it's a productive, battle tested, mostly stable, well maintained and overall nice framework to build on. Can you build product X with something other than Rails? Yes you can. Does that mean X is definitely superior to Rails ? No it doesn't.

rawoke083600• 6 years ago

The name always just sounds like some kinda "steriods" :/

nurettin• 6 years ago

My Mastadon experience: click fediverse, try to filter out sheets and sheets of scrolling chinese, japanese (both authentic and weeaboo), spanish terrorist propaganda, whore ads "in the bay area", anime style drawings of nude underage girls, bots spamming their sensor readings, teens pouring their hearts out into long poetry or whining about their sleep schedule, looking for anything interesting. Sometimes I come across a bot that infrequently posts some interesting art or news, or the account of some geniune productive person who isn't into self-aggrandizement, but those are few and far between.

rglullis10• 6 years ago

Quick solution to your problems:

1. Find the genuine productive people you are interested in following and follow them.

2. Don't use/ignore the fediverse timeline, especially if you are on a big instance. That would be like trying to use twitter by checking the firehose.

3. Profit.

roenxi• 6 years ago

As is traditional, I can't work out what it does from this webpage.

Is this thing some sort of client or some sort of server?

gargron4• 6 years ago

It's a whole package, a default user interface is bundled with the server. If you want to learn what Mastodon is, check out https://joinmastodon.org

ClikeX• 6 years ago

It's a self-hosted Twitter alternative. With the added benefit that the different instances can share posts with each other.

So you could be part of one Mastodon instance, but still see posts from others on the other instances.

seemslegit• 6 years ago

Come for the fun of having to setup and admin you own server, stay for the feeds of furries pics and posts in languages you don't speak.

stiray• 6 years ago

/rant

For those that dont agree (downvoters), feel free to self host mozilla sync server and for added fun, try to do it on freebsd - then you will understand my point. For developers on mastadon - I hope you did get my point and will improve this as it might considerably increase your usage base.

My biggest problem with all "those" platforms is that I want to have it self hosted. I expect one directory/executable (no, not docker) with everything I need to run it, instead of fishing for different parts all over package managers etc. I will exclude database from this. Or nginx/apache proxy configuration.

Same issue as matrix - i would love to run it but what is too much is too much. Maybe once the golang engine is finished, if they dont blew it and make a huge dependency tree for nodejs.

I am so sorry but if I proceed with the philosophy that projects have for the deployment, I will run out of storage and spend my whole life just updating packages. Not to mention if I decide to not use it.

I think that all complex projects are doing the same mistake for last 20 years: they always ignore the "packing" or the end distribution form that their project will have at the end - a huge number of different blobs with 3rd party dependencies are created and it is just expected that this is trivial for end user to set up and maintain.

/rant off

amatecha2• 6 years ago

You might be interested in something like Cabal[0] or Secure Scuttlebutt[1]... Take a look at least, if you haven't heard of them already. Even if you don't dive in, still super interesting regardless!

[0] https://cabal.chat/

[1] https://scuttlebutt.nz/

heavenlyblue• 6 years ago

Do you expect the developers to build twice the backend interfaces to satisfy a single use-case?

Now you could say it should be easy, but if it is easy then you could become a maintainer of the implementation.

asutekku• 6 years ago

It’s more of the fact that the approach the devs chose is suboptimal.

lainsoykaf2• 6 years ago

We started doing OTP releases in Pleroma for this reason: https://docs-develop.pleroma.social/backend/installation/otp...

simias• 6 years ago

I set up Mastodon to give it a try a few months ago and I share your pain, as someone used to old-school unix sysadmin it seems pretty ridiculously complicated and you basically have to input a bunch of docker commands and hope that whatever tutorial you're following doesn't open too many security vulnerabilities.

That being said that's just the modern webdev bloated and unoptimized stack. Go fast, break things and if it doesn't work you can probably solve it by adding another layer or three on top of it.

We can complaint all we want about it but clearly modern web developers prefer to work with these technologies (and sometimes for very good reasons), it's not like we can force them to do things our way.

piaste• 6 years ago

You say "no, not docker" but once you wish for "one directory/executable with everything I need to run it" you're halfway to containers already. Why not just go with Docker?

Mastodon 3.2

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