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As long as the fine is cheaper than the earnings, they'll keep on doing it. And fines are retroactive, at that point they've already broadcasted to and influenced a bunch of people.

Calling AI "just autocomplete" for system architecture is outdated.

I didn't say that, though.

it would do a better job than any junior dev ever could. Sure, giving context is still necessary, but you can just speak in plain, normal English and it will understand. AI is getting scary good at system design.

Sure. But that's not my point. Don't you still want those juniors to be capable of creating those diagrams? So they can understand them? If the juniors don't get what the AI is outputting, why are you even creating the diagrams in the first place, right?

That's what this topic is about. Just like how calculators helped us do complex tasks, we still needed to understand math. Same with AI, you still need to be understand the topics you ask it to do.

Yeah, essentially. Just the first google hit without checking if it actually fits the use case. Or just throwing you a insanely long article about a topic. Maybe tell me what section it's in, or briefly tell me why it's relevant.

"Here is a good explanation from <cite to AI> on how this algorithm works. I have verified that this is accurate", and quote the AIs explanation how is that different from the book case?

I mean this is fine really, as long it's clear to me that you've actually done something with the content. And it's okay when I already know you and know that you actually do the research on the topics the LLM retrieves for you. It's much different when you don't know each other and you just get some generated response. I have no clue if you've digested the information and verified it before giving it to me, or just tossed it over the fence.

The big issue I have with it in this thread is things like blog posts and comments that seem straight up copied from the LLM. At that point the blog seems meaningless to me. It's not the author's work, it's ChatGPT or Claude, so why would I bother reading their prompt's output. I go to a blog for their writing, not the LLM.

Similarly, I go to a concert to hear the artists. I would be very uninterested to a see an empty stage and hearing an AI generated "live version" blasting through the speakers.

I feel like you missed the point I was trying to make.

Sure, a teacher framing the necessity of learning math as "you don't always have calculator" is pretty lazy answer that doesn't really get to the point. In my experience, teachers rarely even made this point, students did that tried to argue that Mathematics was pointless when you have calculators.

But my point was that actually knowing these concepts is good for complex reasoning you can do in all aspects of life. Whether you have the calculator with you or not.

If you were working on a similar project and posted asking questions about it, there is a decent chance I could write a useful answer for you.

But if you do not know the environment, and use AI to create the answers and phrasing. Then you don't really sound like the authority to help me on that particular subject. Why not refer to the authority on the subject instead, or just send the prompts instead so the person on the other end can do their own processing.

If you don't know the answer to something, you don't need to reply. I get the idea of wanting to help people, and it's a nice sentiment. But it's also good to know where your expertise ends.

And the issue with these large generated blog post type things is that I don't know how well the author actually understands the subject. The LLM might've just gotten the right info and and wrote some confident text surrounding it. But it's framed as if the person wrote it. When they might just passing it off as their own. But I don't read blog posts or seek out forums to converse with LLMs, if I wanted that I would've used the LLM myself. Because if it's not the person's own thoughts, what's even the point of communication.

hen I am reading prose online that I previously would have expected a human to write, it can be quite jarring to realize its an LLM.

Because it just feels lazy. It triggers my "If you couldn't be bothered to write it, why do you expect me to spend my time reading it" allergy.

I would contend you got the knowledge by typing the code yourself, that there's no other way to get it, and that if you stop typing the code yourself--and the slogging that entails--you'll lose the ability to prompt LLMs effectively.

For sure, and I've tried picking up a new language with the use of LLMs, but the concepts just don't stick because I don't actually do the work. That's why I do try to limit my use of LLMs to fields I'm already closely familiar with, and also keep its output contained to actually reviewable chunks. Or things that are just tedious, like OCR and large text transformations.

that’s like teachers saying “you won’t always have a calculator

They were right, though. For one, you still need to now what kind of equation to put into the calculator. If you don't know the concepts, what are you going to calculate. Real life situations don't actually spell out neat textbook questions.

And just take a look throughout the day how many quick maths you do subconsciously. Just things like cooking or grocery shopping have tons of moments where you just do the calculation in your head. And you can do that because you've learned how and when to do that.

It's not just a matter of "What if it's inaccessible", but also "Do you want to be dependent on your phone even more". Are just going to walk around with your phone on voice mode narrating your life into your LLM to let it tell you what to do?

The thing with calculator argument that always gets me. I do math unconsciously all the time. Even something as simple as adjusting a recipe when cooking. I don't need to grab a device to do that, I just do the quick math in my head. And the only way I can do that is because I learned how to do math. And even with a calculator, I still needed to know what to calculate. The argument "we don't need math, we have a calculator" assumes you always get a textbook question that lays it out for you.

Same goes for LLMs. I can use them for programming, and they're very convenient. But I still need to know what to ask it and make sure it stays within the confines of what I want. And without my knowledge I would have no clue if what it's trying do is correct, or safe.

Naturally, this assumes a workflow where you do actually look and modify the output yourself. But I'd argue that any non tech person is inevitably going to hit a wall where they can't debug themselves out of without getting a human involved.

I've always found it odd that and/or in Ruby isn't just considered equal to &&/||, and I have never really used the english operators except for the usual modifiers like if and unless.

What is a practical use case where the lower precedence makes sense?

Gabe Newell worked at Microsoft for 15 years - people need to start considering Valve an extension of Microsoft. Their unofficial App Store for games.

This is a really weird take, considering Valve's push into Linux.

Technically they already did a built in ad with Android KitKat. Mostly benign, but I do remember being at an Android event and KitKats samples being given out to everyone. As well as KitKat wrappers being branded with the Android logo for a while.

I've always found juniors to be the most prone to being "clever". Writing complex things for the sake of it. And it's one of the things I think you need to get over if you want to be considered medior/senior. A senior that loves being clever in an actual product is dangerous. Keep that stuff for hobby projects.

At a web agency I used to work at this was definitely a thing we had to teach the juniors. Whatever you built now is going to end up in maintenance with a support team that doesn't have as deep of an understanding of the project. Being overly clever now is going to be a pain in the ass later.

"Keep It Simple, Stupid" is an important skill for a professional.

What I'm trying to say is, it's best to try <a thing> for yourself, and see if it fits your preferences, rather than letting others stop you from exploring.

Yes, that is the rational thing to do. I don't think anybody disagrees with that. But that's not how a lot of people go throughout their day. There are a gazillion languages to pick up nowadays, and I think many experienced devs only have a casual interest in picking up a new one. If you've been interested in picking up a system language, I can easily see why you would steer away from Rust towards Zig.

And just to clarify here. You shouldn't judge an entire community based on their toxic minority. But as a community, you can't also ignore your toxic minority. Like it or not, they do represent you. And they do scare away potential newcomers who aren't already sold on the language.

It's not about if the entire community is weird. But that a few vocal people doing something becomes the first impression of the ecosystem. Which is turning people off from exploring further, as you can see in this thread.

You can make the case that if something like this turns you off from diving deeper into the language you probably weren't that motivated to begin with. But it is a noticable effect. This post isn't the first time I see it either. Rust has become a meme amongst my colleagues because things keep popping up with "Build with Rust" before mentioning anything of substance of the project. The phrase "Did you know Rust is memory safe?" is also a running joke in my IRL dev surroundings now.

Companies should move away from it. But it's still pretty common.

Looking at my own country. There are multiple big companies with a "founder-mode" CEO that is a massive prick and wants to be a dictator.

I feel like having the US president try to run their entire country this way is also validating a lot of those CEO types.

Not literally. And I would hardly say it was a matter of language superiority. I love Ruby myself. But Github was a lot simpler when it was still just a Rails app.

But Rails was SSR by default, and most of the frontend was just Embedded Ruby (ERB) template files all over the place. And way back when, it was even relatively common to use Javascript supersets like CoffeeScript[1] and Opal[2]. The latter being Ruby that compiled to JS.

[1] https://coffeescript.org/ [2]: https://opalrb.com/