The United Nations of Uniqlo

https://www.economist.com/1843/2020/07/06/the-united-nations-of-uniqlo

by allenleein • 6 years ago

131 90 6 years ago

ur-whale• 6 years ago

The American market has proved harder to crack. The 56 Uniqlo stores in America fall far short of Yanai’s plan, in 2012, to open 200 there. They still operate at a loss.

Huh, that's surprising -- the stores I've been to are always pretty packed.

The whole "invisibility" thing throughout the article rings true for me -- I like Uniqlo (it's more or less the only place I shop for clothes now) because the quality is usually good, especially for the price, and most of the designs are nice and plain. The last thing I want my clothes to do for me is make me stand out.

_tik_• 6 years ago

East Asian from Singapore here. Maybe it is due to the available Uniqlo available size and styles. I seldom buy American brand due to the shape. It is too long for me and lack of "kawaii" ness of the design

csomar3• 6 years ago

I have stumbled on Uniqlo while around Tokyo. I was surprised how cheap it is, minimalist the styles were, and how very good the material/quality is. I have been mainly purchasing from Celio, Mango, H&M (ie: the European brands). My experience is that the clothes will last less than a year before becoming too washed to be wear. Clothes I bought from Uniqlo still look very good now 1.5 year later. Looks like they'll last for a couple more years.

I'm surprised Uniqlo didn't take over the world in fashion. But EU/US buyers might not be careful enough to care about quality and just focus on how it looks like today.

lnsp• 6 years ago

The quality is definitly on the better side but the brand has the same ethical issues as H&M and others. There are other 'basic' brands like ASKET that may be a bit more expensive, but don't have these problems in their supply chain.

csomar3• 6 years ago

How are you sure? ASKET has a factory not that far from were I live. I can't find the factory anywhere on the map but looking at some of the provided photos, they don't have air-conditioners. This place becomes boiling hot in the summer. I can't affirm for 100% certainty that they are a shitty workplace but I'll bet $100 that they are as shitty as the rest of textile factories here.

nigerian1981• 6 years ago

I live in the UK and I absolutely love Uniqlo. Previously I had to wait until a visit to London but now there are more stores in the UK. The quality is amazing and here in the UK they even do free alterations depending on the price of the item.

hobofan• 6 years ago

and how very good the material/quality is. I have been mainly purchasing from Celio, Mango, H&M (ie: the European brands).

Compared to those cheap brands, sure. I've mainly bought Uniqlo clothes for the last 4 years, and they've been decaying at about a slightly slower rate (maybe 0.75x) than similar brands to those you listed, but for each item, I estimate that it was probably 2-3x as expensive as their cheap counterpart.

In contrast to that, I also still wear some skateboard clothes that run in the same price range as Uniqlo and are ~10 years old by, which hold up much better (with most of the damage coming from my cat). I don't have any illusions that any of my Uniqlo stuff will last that long.

I still like Uniqlo, as they provide one of the most straightforward shopping experiences for someone who doesn't like shopping, but there is certainly room for improvement in their quality.

paganel• 6 years ago

Can say the same about skateboard shirts, I’m still regularly wearing an Emerica shirt I bought in late 2006 and an Emerica hoodie I bought around the same time.

csomar3• 6 years ago

but for each item, I estimate that it was probably 2-3x as expensive as their cheap counterpart.

Maybe in the EU Uniqlo is expensive. But in Japan the prices were lower for what I'd pay for these brands.

For the US, here is t-shirts for Uniqlo vs H&M. Uniqlo is cheaper or at a similar price

https://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/men/t-shirts
https://www2.hm.com/en_us/men/products/t-shirts-tank-tops/gr...

Edit: Also if you haven't checked the cheaper brands in the last 4 years, you might not be aware that their quality deteriorated rapidly especially for Nike/Adidas.

karimmaassen• 6 years ago

Same. The first time I went to a Uniqlo was in Tokyo. I was amazed. There's one in Amsterdam (I'm Dutch) so I revisited and was surprised with almost the exact same experience. As when I went shopping in New York, beginning this year.

The quality of these clothes, especially for this price range, is extraordinary. H&M - my previous go-to shop - is utter crap in comparison.

wenc2• 6 years ago

So the general impression on Reddit is: Zara, the most fashion forward, quality so-so. H&M, moderately fashion-forward, quality hit-or-miss. Uniqlo, moderately fashion-forward, quality above average.

My Uniqlo pieces generally last at least 3 years with weekly wear. That's not bad at all. In the past decade, I've thrown out maybe 2 Uniqlo shirts due to fraying. Fast-fashion produces a lot of environmental waste, so quality matters.

They're the IKEA of clothing.

bruceb• 6 years ago

What H&M had, Zara somewhat still has, but Uniqlo doesnt have is the must buy or might not see it again.

Uniqlo does a good business selling decent quality clothes at a decent price that are modern classics.

emptyfile• 6 years ago

You can't sell in markets where you don't have stores and people don't know your brand. I was delighted when I visited a Uniqlo store in Barcelona, but there isn't one anywhere near me.

I just read somewhere that their plan from 2017-2020 is to increase the number of stores in Europe from 50 to 100.

For comparison H&M has 100 stores in Belgium alone.

gberger• 6 years ago

What H&M had, Zara somewhat still has, but Uniqlo doesnt have is the must buy or might not see it again.

And this is why I shop at Uniqlo, not at H&M or Zara. I like to ensure that my favourite basics will always be available for repurchase 2+ years after the original purchase, so I can replace a worn item.

arethuza• 6 years ago

I wish all clothes would come with a machine readable label that takes you directly to a page to buy exact replacements or duplicates.

mortenjorck• 6 years ago

What H&M had, Zara somewhat still has, but Uniqlo doesnt have is the must buy or might not see it again.

Uniqlo actually does this too, just in a rather different way. The company tends to make annual revisions to various products, sometimes changing minor things like cutting the shoulders more closely (which may even be mentioned, changelog-style on Uniqlo.com) to completely restyling the garment.

As an example of the latter, I had been thinking about getting one of their mountain parkas last year but decided to wait. The 2020 revision looks very different – fortunately in a way I still liked – but if I’d had my heart set on the 2019 version (or I had an older version that I needed to replace), I’d have been out of luck.

victor106• 6 years ago

Love the clothes Hate the work culture.

I have a few friends who work for Uniqlo on the e-commerce team in the US. They all tell me that the work culture is horrible. It’s very Japanese.

- Long unproductive hours gets your bosses appreciation.

- Very sexist and male dominated.

- They hate working remote even when it was absolutely necessary for the employee.

- No respect for maternity related issues.

Any company that would like to see itself become multinational has to adapt to local cultures

hatmatrix• 6 years ago

Also from the article:

As a child Yanai [Uniqlo's founder] was scared of his father, who would beat him for not finishing his breakfast quickly or spending too much time reading after bedtime. But a sense of duty lured him home after he graduated from university and he took over the family enterprise as its employees began to retire.

Doesn't get much more Japanese than this.

rogy• 6 years ago

Similar experience working with Uniqlo UK staff, they would call us for support on trivial issues late at night, demanding that is was of the utmost importance some buried marketing text was changed on random content pages.

They mostly sounded like they had no choice but to do as they were told, and looked very exhausted when we met them in person.

lhorie2• 6 years ago

This seems to be widespread among japanese companies. My dad worked for a large Japanese multinational and on a number of occasions when japanese execs flew in, he would have to set them straight when they tried to engage in employee harassment, unruly behavior in restaurants, etc...

...and that's coming from a reputable, well-off company. In Japan, they have a term called "black company"[1] that is essentially abusive sweatshops, but for office work. There's literally genres of manga that start off w/ the premise of people dying of overwork at these kinds of places.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_company_(Japanese_term)

kinghtown2• 6 years ago

Any company that would like to see itself become multinational has to adapt to local cultures

Good luck on that. General consensus out here in Asia is that western people are lazy ( but not everyone feels this way! Some people consider westerners to be lazy and nice..)

Traditional Asian culture, this is my own Non controversial opinion coming, values hard work. A bunch of people I know who work in Science park in Taiwan are actually afraid of being productive because if they were to become more efficient then suddenly they would be working so much more. No managers reward productivity out here with a shorter work day.

If the rest of the world were to mandate four day work weeks by law, and flourish doing such, then the companies out here would rub their hands together greedily because they will dominate with their work culture and punishingly long hours.

So much about Japan is best in the world but their work culture is soul crushing.

stickfigure• 6 years ago

"How's that working out for you?"

'Dominating' doesn't seem like the appropriate word to apply to Japan right now? From Wikipedia:

Japan's asset price bubble collapse in 1991 led to a period of economic stagnation known as the "lost decade", sometimes now extended as the "lost 20 years." From 1995 to 2007, GDP fell from $5.33 trillion to $4.36 trillion in nominal terms. Japan today has the highest ratio of public debt to GDP of any developed nation, with national debt at 236% relative to GDP as of 2017. This debt is predominantly owned by Japanese nationals. The Japanese economy faces considerable challenges posed by an ageing and declining population, which peaked at 128 million in 2010 and has fallen to 126.5 million as of 2018. Projections suggest the population will continue to fall to potentially lower than 100 million by the middle of the 21st century.

Economies are complex. It's not clear that punishingly long hours at work are an advantage.

ksec4• 6 years ago

Yes that is common across nearly All Japanese companies and that is why I have been critical of them in terms of global expansion. ( And especially in Tech )

But things are slowly changing though. Those that are younger generation ( Comparatively Speaking ) are in middle to higher management roles are more open and less hostile, so you start seeing a few Japanese companies picking up actual productivity increase and competing.

decafninja• 6 years ago

I am Korean American, and have worked for some of the huge Korean conglomerates. The work culture leaves a lot to be desired.

There is also "reverse racism" prevalent. i.e. if you are Korean (or Kor-Am) and are working for a Korean corporation, you might be judged on different standards than a coworker who is not Korean, or not East Asian. You're expected to work harder and more "passionately" for no extra compensation just because some vague notion of nationalistic/ethnistic Korean Pride.

I've interviewed at some of the big Japanese conglomerates too, and I got exactly the same feeling as I did with Korean companies.

I've come to the conclusion that I will never work for an East Asian company again barring some earth shattering changes to their corporate culture. Many of my ex-colleagues say the same.

yibg• 6 years ago

It's an interesting question. Do multinationals adopt to local cultures or do they try to set the tone locally? The example you gave goes one way, what about the other way? Should an American company operating in Japan follow local culture (e.g. some of the things listed above)?

I don't know what the right answer is, but I've worked in Asia as part of a multinational company and always felt weird about requiring pictures for job applications. There were also comments regarding female candidates that would definitely be considered unacceptable in the US but is normal there.

paulcole• 6 years ago

Compare to this article from 2010:

https://nymag.com/fashion/features/65898/

iamben2• 6 years ago

Huge fan of Uniqlo, we're very lucky to have so many of them in London.

The clothes tend to be the right side of 'fashionable', ie the cuts are modern and flattering, the price is very comparable with and often better than the other UK high street rivals, and most importantly the quality for the most part far surpasses everything else in the price bracket. It's (generally) far better than buying from Zara or H&M, which feels very 'fast' in comparison.

The GAP comparison is probably apt, although one thing I really appreciate about Uniqlo (especially compared to GAP) is the lack of branding and logos. You can easily build a complete wardrobe (work/pub/play) - especially if you're buying base pieces. Which is probably the reason they get a lot of love on /r/malefashionadvice/.

wastedhours• 6 years ago

Before the lockdown and WFH, I'd say about half my work-casual wardrobe ended up being Uniqlo. Very good quality, good design, and as you say, there's nothing obnoxious about their branding.

If they had a similar free delivery option as Asos Premium, would probably use them for pretty much everything.

Though I don't fully understand their ridiculously long trousers.

Edit: as per responses, make use of their alterations service!

tjr225• 6 years ago

Though I don't fully understand their ridiculously long trousers.

I don’t have any length issues with their pants due to my height but perhaps they are intended to be hemmed?

lhorie2• 6 years ago

Though I don't fully understand their ridiculously long trousers

Too long can be fixed. Too short cannot.

I have a thin build and that translates to either baggy thighs or short leg lengths in many brands. Uniqlo long pants are great for me because they also offer alteration services[1] so I can always get a good fit.

[1] https://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/page/alteration-service.html

akdor1154• 6 years ago

They give free hemming here in Aus, maybe they do in the UK as well?

intopieces• 6 years ago

Though I don't fully understand their ridiculously long trousers.

As others have pointed out, they hem them for free. This is a clever bit of optimization for them, for two reasons:

(1) Fewer SKUs to stock. Each type of pant only varies in waist, not length.

(2) The pants become non-returnable after alternation. This reduces the number of items that can be returned substantially, since very few people fit the dimension of the pants.

simias• 6 years ago

I like that there are relatively few models and most of the variations are in colors. I hate shopping for clothes, the lack of choice is a feature for me. I had to buy some shorts the other day, Uniqlo had like three models and 5 colors, I spent less than 5 minutes in the store. And as other people point out in this thread, the quality is in general very decent for this price.

wlll• 6 years ago

I suggest checking out thread.com if you're in the UK. I've been using them or years and love them.

Each week they suggest "outfits" for you and you can buy them all, bits of them, or none of them (you can ignore the emails). They then send them to you, and you can try them on in your home, and sending them back is super-easy (put them in the box, drop at collect+). They pull from many different other shops and brands.

I promist I don't work for them, I just really love the service :) As someone who also hate clothes shopping it was a revelation.

nindalf2• 6 years ago

I read this comment and it's parent out to my spouse. She thought I had written both of them since I like Uniqlo for exactly these reasons. I have friends who work in tech who shop in Uniqlo because they feel the same. It's surprising how much of a monoculture we are.

oliverobscure• 6 years ago

Especially in central London! I went around on a Zone 1 Uniqlo tour with my friend before lockdown and it's surprising in that different outlets offer different clothing.

I also am a fan of the lack of branding - the simplicity helps to complement other pieces, however I do also buy some of their UT Graphic Tees, especially since the designs are so... well, unique.

lvturner• 6 years ago

I've always thought the quality was subpar with oddly fitting cuts.

Still occasionally shop their for some niche items (longjohns spring to mind) but generally I find a store best avoided

ksec4• 6 years ago

My problem with Uniqlo is that they changes cuttings, Materials and some other minor details all while showing the same label. So they will look 95% the same, even material is pretty much the same.... but it is still "different". ( The Item code will be different ) Not to mention Uniqlo's quality depends on its country of origin or where they are sold. Uniqlo in Japan is really a bar higher than Uniqlo around the world. ( Which is pretty much the same with everything in Japan, domestic products tends to be of the highest quality compared to Export)

So if you are picky about these sort of things Uniqlo tends to offer inconsistency.

darcien• 6 years ago

Ahh, I never paid attention to the code, I guess they would "update" the design over the time?

In my country, Indonesia, I would guess the quality bar from Uniqlo would be pretty low since it's in SEA, but compared to local brands, I think the stuffs Uniqlo makes are really good, I loved shopping in Uniqlo.

gumby• 6 years ago

People on HN praise Tesla for the same thing: model S is model S, not the 2019 S and 2018 S

redsparrow• 6 years ago

I have been wearing Uniqlo t-shirts most days for the last few years. The codes change regularly on those. I have a few from a version where the bottom hem is always curling up on itself. The rest of them just hang straight and flat...

I also have some Uniqlo underwear that changed code where the old ones fit well and the new ones didn't.

I'm still a happy customer, but it does mean that I have to be a little cautious about buying 5 more of something just because my previous experience with it was good.

mellosouls• 6 years ago

Loved the very cool Uniqlo screensavers from years ago, made this non-fashionista remember the brand name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAMC1NizEU0

627467• 6 years ago

Their range of soft touch cotton long sleeve t-shirts have become a stable in my wardrobe for years now. For the winter they are a must. Every time I managed to travel to a country with Uniqlo I stock up with another 4 or 5 of those.

viiralvx• 6 years ago

Anybody interested in reading more about Japanese fashion should read "Ametora: How Japan Saved American Style". Uniqlo's story is told there as well,but it paints a picture of the history behind how's Japan's fashion scene evolved from imitating American style to becoming something unique and desirable in its own manner.

odiroot• 6 years ago

Uniqlo is my favourite brand. They have "skinny" sizes unlike most fast fashion brands.

The clothes are also durable and have good, timeless style.

Their winter undershirts are also great, super thin & breathable but plenty warm.

jointpdf• 6 years ago

Random tip: Uniqlo is an usual but excellent source for inexpensive hiking/backpacking/lightweight travel clothes. In particular: the UL down jackets/parkas (~9.5oz in size M), HeatTech Extra Warm baselayers, Airism underwear, wind jacket, and socks/gloves. You see a ton of this stuff out on any long distance trail (it’s high quality enough to last an entire thru-hike and beyond).

Once you put on the HeatTech extra warm leggings, you’ll understand why superheroes wear tights—they’re the bomb.

screye• 6 years ago

Heat-tech and airism are both incredibly legit base layers. Heat tech is my favorite piece of clothing for New England winters and winter treks. The ultra light down jackets and weather proof parkas are incredibly convenient too.

They seem to be going through a wierd cut phase, which accentuates men's chest in an awkward way and looks like dad wear unless you are really slim/athletic, but I hope it is temporary thing. (or maybe I just need to get in better shape)

neom3• 6 years ago

Due to the Japan boycott, Uniqlo and Muji here in Korea are ghost towns, I don't know why they bother putting them in this market. it's pretty uncommon to see them busy. There is a huge Uniqlo next to my house and I was literally the only one in it yesterday.

Andrex• 6 years ago

Could you provide more information on this boycott? I'm not sure I've heard of it before now.

neom3• 6 years ago

Sure, this wikipedia article is pretty accurate[1]. It comes down to a series of pretty complex issues between South Korea and Japan. Although the current boycott is usually talked about in the news as a result of what SK perceives to be an unfair trade relationship, the tension amongst the average person I talk to comes down to the lack of apology by Japan over comfort women, and more recently the Liancourt Islands[2]. Japan has updated it's High School history curriculum to state the Islands are owned by Japan and not mentioning the disputed status, while SK teaches about the dispute. As a result of all of this, many many Koreans won't shop at Japanese brands[3]. (I am not Korean however I live in Korea)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Japan%E2%80%...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks_dispute

[3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_boycott_of_Japanese_produ...

NineStarPoint• 6 years ago

It’s possible you heard about it a whole ago, it’s been an ongoing boycott for a while:

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_internation...

http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=4...

https://thediplomat.com/2020/07/japanese-firms-exit-south-ko...

puranjay• 6 years ago

Uniqlo launched here in India last year and has quickly become my favorite brand. I appreciate their no-nonsense marketing. I like that they don't try to sell me an 'identity', but utility - their product descriptions focus on product benefits, not some copywriter's exaggerated idea of the self (looking at you, Nike).

mwexler• 6 years ago

This article and comments would read the same in the 80s about Benetton and 90s about the Gap. By being vague about identity, they got extra runway but then got greedy and flamed out. Let's hope uniqlo can manage to escape the patterns of history.

totetsu• 6 years ago

The problem with wearing uniqlo in japan, is you will always pass someone wearing the same things as you.

manuelabeledo• 6 years ago

To be fair, the mainstream Japanese style, especially in large cities where most of the workforce gather in offices, does not leave much room for differentiation.

Something that has always fascinated me, though, is the irony of Japan being one of the leaders in street and urban fashion.

lorenzfx• 6 years ago

This might be a feature for some people, not a bug.

wenc2• 6 years ago

True. In America, it's a comedic trope -- when two people wearing the same clothes encounter each other, both of them feel the need to go home and change. It's kinda funny.

Hamuko• 6 years ago

https://up.gc-img.net/post_img_web/2016/06/a45633d657e17ce3f...

novok3• 6 years ago

Most affordable clothing in japan is of the boring uniqlo style unfortunately. But on the other hand, many japanese when your walking around in tokyo don't really look that 'uniqlo boring' either. Way more well dressed people there than a typical american city.

Joe8Bit2• 6 years ago

I did some strategy work for a very large UK fashion retailer who's at the complete opposite end of the "don't chase fashion" market. Everyone in that industry is trying to emulate Uniqlo's margins and unit economics.

This article talks about how they produce their fabric, but the thing they realised super early is how valuable _vertical integration_ can be in fashion retail. They own the end to end process, from raw material purchase upwards.

They can do this BECAUSE of how limited their selection is, if you're a fast fashion retailer you always needs new materials and new patterns and new tooling so it's incredibly hard to chase vertical integration and strong unit economics. They get savings by pushing that risk and RnD onto dedicated manufacturers in places like Bangladesh. It's 'just in time' manufacturing in a pretty extreme sense. Because Uniqlo have so much less cardinality in their stock they can focus and optimise for it. It also enables them to control quality in a way few others can.

ksec4• 6 years ago

Where I could read up more on it? Or are these sort of insider knowledge? ( If so, if you dont mind expand on it in a bit more detail )

nindalf2• 6 years ago

The linked article is a good place to start. I thought it explained what makes Uniqlo tick pretty well.

Joe8Bit2• 6 years ago

My knowledge is from consulting for fashion companies, so am not sure where to point you I'm afraid!

Most fashion retailers work with contract factories. They design a garment (or line of garments) and then put out a tender to a set of factories in their approved supplier list. The factories then bid to manufacture those garments. The decision-making criteria for the fashion companies vary but are usually some combination of quality on offer, price and 'time to store'/turnaround time. This tender process can happen dozens or hundreds of times a year for big, high turnover fast fashion retailers. Some of these retailers do have their own factories, but most don't.

The reason these retailers need to do this is because they're always trying to stay 'on trend' and have the latest, most fashionable items at the lowest cost. They're 'chasing the zeitgeist'.

Uniqlo, on the other hand, doesn't chase fashion in the same way. They have a stable set of core garments they always sell in predictable (and VERY large) quantities. This means they can negotiate longer term, much larger scale deals with manufacturers that work out MUCH cheaper for them. It also means they can go 'up the value chain' and manufacture the fabrics and patterns and tooling themselves, reducing cost even further.

ipnon• 6 years ago

In general, the less of a monopoly you have, i.e. the more competition you have, the greater the benefits of vertical integration.

H1Supreme• 6 years ago

I love their long sleeve dress shirts. I have probably every "checked" variety they offer. They hold up great.

I really love their comfort sport coats. Great alternative to a sweater that can be dressed down to wear with denim. Mine always get compliments.

boojack• 6 years ago

Uniqlo makes up 80%+ of my "wardrobe".

Minimalist design, good fitting, decent materials, at a very affordable price point.

And I'm also continually impressed by their work on new materials: heat tech, tight "Chino" pants that are stretchy that I can do parkour in.

tzury• 6 years ago

https://outline.com/68BXAZ

dirtyid• 6 years ago

Big fan of Uniqlo, curious how they fail to sell shoes in the last few years. 1-2 models of casual shoes and a summer sandals in monochrome colors every year. Well made and cheap. Always pushed to discount bin after a few weeks. Haven't seen anyone wear them outside.

samat• 6 years ago

I have all my clothes from Uniqlo except for shoes, wallet and a bag for 5 years now. The reason is I don’t have to think hard about it. And I can restock worn out items pretty reliably (although I wish they did not change items year by year at all).

thenanyu• 6 years ago

I worked in the apparel industry for many years; From what I remember, Uniqlo focused obsessively on quality control and unit economics.

They have very few fabrications that are shared across many styles so they can order an entire mill's supply for a season in some cases. In this industry segment, materials costs can be ~70% of total production cost so this make an enormous impact.

They outsource to factories outside of Japan, but they will send in their own operations team to do production line setup and training. Their tolerances were very tight and QC process rigorous. If you walk into a factory, you will see Uniqlo branded posters up everywhere with "10 rules of quality control" and the like.

My former employer really prized hiring the same factories that Uniqlo used because we knew the QC was going to be a step above and the unit costs optimized.

The United Nations of Uniqlo

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