Ask HN: What is the current state of Google Stadia?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23474208

by antisthenes • 6 years ago

30 63 6 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Considering how much it was hyped about 6-7 months ago, there seems to be a distinct lack of news about the product recently.

Is streamed gaming dead, again?

If you are a user, what has your experience been in the last few months?

londons_explore2• 6 years ago

They've started a pretty big YouTube ad campaign, I guess taking advantage of recent low ad prices.

speps• 6 years ago

Why would they pay to promote when they own YouTube anyway?

otalp• 6 years ago

Two different teams. The money largely stays within Google but each team's accounting is taken care of.

a_humean• 6 years ago

When you are as large a company as google is its easier for accounting purposes to treat internals as just another customer albeit maybe with a discount. Its very common within large corporates to pay other entities within the corporation for services and goods, and even to loan each other money at some interest rate and a repayment agreement.

Its also often how internal cost centers within a company justify their existence, by charging the teams that use their services. I've worked in places where it is not possible to get anyone not on your team to do anything unless you can provide an internal cost code to charge to.

toyg• 6 years ago

Most large companies are divided internally into multiple entities / different companies. They charge each other for services they provide; the accountants will reconcile all that (“intercompany matching”) then sum up finances of all companies in the group, including stuff they own only partially (“financial consolidation”), to obtain an actual view of the financial status of the entire group.

There is an entire category of software dedicated to this activity, which happens to be my area of expertise.

scott_w• 6 years ago

There’s benefits and drawbacks to this.

Imagine being the ads team and being told “you must run these ads for free. Oh, by the way, your revenue targets are the same.” You’d be upset to say the least! Reduce revenue targets? By how much? That sounds like a complicated way to get the same result.

Also, paying for intra company services simplifies RoI calculations. Instead of having to work out “how much ad revenue could I have made?” and trying to guess the opportunity cost, you have clear numbers. Stadia spent X on marketing and made Y revenue. Your ad team process is unchanged and Stadia have the freedom to market the product however they please.

Where things get dicey can be when you’re forced to use your own company. A real life example is a company that sells parts and also has a repair division. The repair division MUST buy from distribution at market rates and MUST add a markup on. The result is the customer gets double markup charged on a part AND pays for labour on top. You can guess how competitive this company is on bids where alternative suppliers can offer parts cheaper.

londons_explore2• 6 years ago

I'd guess it's a typical "We built some amazing tech, but released it 90% finished with some critical bugs, and now the project is paralyzed while we fix those bugs rather than develop it."

smabie• 6 years ago

But, I mean, is it amazing? You can game on AWS with vanilla software if you really want to.

dkersten• 6 years ago

Could do this for a few years too and it worked really well.

bilbo0s• 6 years ago

What's worse is that, a lot of the time, that last 10% of implementation can require the majority of the development time. Not always, but often. Definitely with tech like video game streaming, I can see the last mile being the most difficult.

akbo• 6 years ago

I'll just leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-ninety_rule

Raed667• 6 years ago

I (and a lot of other people) refuse to buy Stadia games.

Mainly because after spending ~60$ on a game, to keep having access to it, you have to keep paying a subscription. Even if you only play in solo mode.

---

Edit: it appears that you "only" need a subscription if you want to play @4K, this is was communicated so badly it stuck in my mind since the lunch.

The point still stands that when google eventually shuts down the platform, your games will evaporate and you don't own anything.

amscanne• 6 years ago

Isn’t the subscription only for Stadia Pro, which gets you 4K streaming & some free access to games? I thought you still had access to purchased games (though not 4K) without the subscription.

If indeed this is the case (maybe I’m wrong?) and there’s a “lot of other people” that aren’t interested in Stadia for this reason, that seems like a big failure in communication. The fact that I can’t answer the question with a few minutes of Googling is alarming.

badsectoracula2• 6 years ago

You cannot have perpetual access (that is "keep having access to it") on a platform that doesn't give you the games directly but you can only access via what is essentially a glorified terminal. I do not think there is any communication failure there: if you cannot download the game and keep it on your collection without having to bother with Google's servers then you cannot have perpetual access by design.

(usually people bring up Steam here, but with Steam you do get to download the game and while often it is tied on Steam, most of the time it is trivial to remove that dependency and many games do not even have it - though Steam isn't the only place to get games, personally i buy all my new games from GOG where i have about 660 games and all of them are stored on my own external HDD... which btw also contains games from services that are now defunct)

drusepth4• 6 years ago

You're right.

Stadia Pro gets you free games (which also remain "yours" even after canceling your subscription), discounts on other games, 4K streaming on the games you've purchased, and supports surround sound.

Stadia Base (free) lets you play your games in 60fps 1080p. This is the tier you play your purchased games on if you don't keep a subscription up.

avallach2• 6 years ago

There's no mandatory subscription. Once you by a game, you can play it until whole service shuts down without any further fees. It is the same as with most Steam games - you also don't legally own them and they only start with internet connection due to drm. Indeed it's very different from GOG that gives you full ownership and perpetual offline access.

Causality12• 6 years ago

Not to mention when Google's ADHD kicks in and five years from now Stadia gets shut down all your games are going bye-bye.

majewsky• 6 years ago

Five years? How do you manage to stay that optimistic?

arcturus17• 6 years ago

This is blatantly false.

jhanschoo• 6 years ago

I think that this also needs to be considered against the depreciating value of "games you own". There are hidden costs involved with organizing them and maintaining compatible hardware, as well as depreciating value in the face of game design getting outdated, multiplayer services shutting down, and remasters and new releases.

On the other hand, it's still up in the air how long-lived Stadia would be. If you compare it against Google's free services it's not a good track record, but if you compare it against content bought in Google Play, it's trustable.

29athrowaway3• 6 years ago

The people that spend the most in games care more about responsiveness and graphics quality. Both aspects suffer when you stream a game.

If you do a side-to-side comparison between Stadia and a console or PC you can notice some graphics artifacts and there can be input lag.

Then, the reviews have not been favourable enough for people to become interested. Favourable reviews have been always an important factor in games.

I have used Steam Link for streaming games locally, here at home, and it's not the same as playing it directly on my PC. With Stadia perhaps it's similar.

Kaze4043• 6 years ago

Steam in home streaming is my new favorite thing. I use it to play PC games on my Nintendo Switch (with homebrew Android), on my phone, and even on my TV. As long as it's not something that requires mouse input the latency is unnoticeable for me.

The best part is that it just works. I can, simultaneously, stream the game to my TV, and stream input from my Bluetooth connected Dualshock 4 from my phone to the PC, running a game through Proton/Wine. There are so many moving parts at play and yet they all work perfectly, with zero fiddling.

29athrowaway3• 6 years ago

Right, but in the case of Stadia, the "console" is cloud-based. So you need very good internet connectivity to have a decent gaming experience.

DanielleMolloy2• 6 years ago

I understood the actual market for Stadia to be people who are interested in 1-3 games on a platform (because they are not that interested in games or don’t know more), but unwilling to sink 300$ into a base platform first. Right now there are 5 people around me who are quite interested in the Switch but have put off buying it because they can’t know whether it will collect dust after playing the 1-2 games they are sure to be interested in. That’s a massive market.

I might jump into Stadia for trying Cyberpunk because I’m not interested in getting a big loud box anytime soon (depends on pricing though).

29athrowaway3• 6 years ago

Nintendo has a strict policy: "software sells hardware", meaning, their flagship games are only released on Nintendo consoles. e.g.: Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros, etc.

I do not expect to see Nintendo games on the Stadia.

simonkafan• 6 years ago

Status of Stadia? Well, you still have a little over 3 years to try it out... http://stadiacountdown.com/

Kaze4043• 6 years ago

You still don't own anything you purchase, so that's already a no for me. I'd be willing to let it slide though, were it not for Google's history with discontinuing products.

perrohunter• 6 years ago

The games I’d play are not on stadia

avallach2• 6 years ago

I bought and played FFXV for 20€ (discounted) and I don't have to pay any subscription fees. Graphic quality is sometimes bit disappointing (video compression artifacts and less details), but it's always smooth. I'm happy with it, much less hassle than trying to run it on my Linux. Games start very quickly without installing and don't need GBs of local storage.

theroax• 6 years ago

It's working perfect for me. I bought some games and a I can play them without paying the subscription. So it is like a free cloud console if you buy the games.

ronnie86• 6 years ago

I have been using Stadia since launch. The streaming service works perfectly, never any lag. The only problem I have with stadia is the lack of games. Red dead redemption and Assassins creed odyssey are the top titles and both are at least 1.5 years old. I also believe Cyberpunk 2077 will be released on stadia but it will not be available on launch day. Stadia needs games.....

joefarish• 6 years ago

Performance wise I've been very happy with Stadia so far. I also think once FIFA and Madden are released there will be a significant uptick in player numbers.

drusepth4• 6 years ago

On Twitter, everyone wants to make you believe it's dead and a laughingstock of the Internet. Yet Stadia's tweets get way more likes/engagement now than they did months ago, so it definitely feels like it's growing. Outside of Twitter, if you mention Stadia it usually prompts a "What's that?" 99% of the time for me.

As a user, I'm extremely happy. I recently moved from Google Fiber (Kansas City) to Portland (Xfinity) so I was a little worried that Stadia only worked so well because I was on fiber + Google, but it's worked amazingly well out here as well.

I briefly tried GeForce Now since it's cheaper and it was fine, but I had some input stuttering and graphics downscaling that was an immediate dealbreaker for me compared to the flawless experience I had on Stadia.

To me, it seems like Stadia has the tech down solid, and the biggest downside is the game library. However, they also seem to be picking up the pace they release new games at, and there's way more games per month free on Pro now than there was months ago, so that's really exciting to me.

I play Stadia on the same TV I have a gaming PC (mostly for VR, but occasionally for RPGs with an Xbox controller), a Nintendo Switch, and an Xbox One -- and I've found myself pretty exclusively using the Switch and Stadia for the past few months.

I doubt I'll buy another game in the future outside of Stadia, unless it's something for the Switch. The Xbox is pretty dead to me now (and I don't think I'll upgrade to a next-gen console) and I much prefer Stadia over my gaming PC since I can also play games on other devices now.

I'm excited for Amazon's Project Tempo and Microsoft's xCloud, because they might be better at getting the licensing needed for massive amounts of games at once. In the meantime, Stadia seems like a clear leader in streamed gaming to me.

meritt• 6 years ago

Not sure how ubiquitous the service is across the city but you can get 1000/1000 fiber from CenturyLink in parts of Portland.

drusepth4• 6 years ago

Unfortunately in my building (downtown, west of the river) my options are 750mbps from Xfinity or 10mbps from CenturyLink [1]... for the same price.

I've been on Google Fiber for years and I worry it spoiled me. I wish there were more tenable options than Xfinity-which-definitely-isn't-Comcast.

[1] https://i.imgur.com/4qWViL3.png (this pains me to see)

butz• 6 years ago

How is Stadia and other game streaming platforms dealing with "bitrate killer" effects (e.g. grid patterns, flashing etc.)? Do they have enough bandwidth or does it become a pixelated mess like in youtube videos?

rangera• 6 years ago

Stadia has been really great for me, in my sort of unusual case. I usually play a video games for a month, then not at all for several months, then back on. In my current situation it didn’t make any sense to spend so much money on a console, to barely use it. I definitely can’t play any games on my MacBook.

Stadia meant I could buy the game I really wanted to play (Red Dead 2), and not worry at all about how to play it. I’m currently on the free trial of the Pro subscription (which enables 4K streaming), but I probably won’t renew. I can keep playing for FREE, capped at 1080p, which I would expect will be just fine. Lag has been non-existent, video quality could be a little better but it’s phenomenal for live streaming IMO.

Edit for context: My internet connection typically hovers around 60Mbps, and I play with an ethernet connection (which I got for remote work, not for gaming, but it's been great).

dave842• 6 years ago

This is exactly my use case. I wanted to play Red Dead Redemption 2 during the lockdown but I didn’t want to spend €300-400 on a console that I won’t play afterwards. The stadia experience for me has been brilliant. If it disappears in a few years along with my game I won’t be happy but it’s not much different to owning Red Dead Redemption 1 on disc and a broken Xbox 360. Total cost of ownership is lower for me and I’m willing to take the risk.

TechBro8615• 6 years ago

Idk where you are getting these prices from. You can get a used Xbox one for £150.

Apocryphon• 6 years ago

Streaming gaming doesn't seem to be dead, because aside from the Stadia, Nvidia has been quietly offering the GeForce Now service, which has been a decent competitor.

paulie_a• 6 years ago

I just got one last week. Games started instantly with no lag or artifacts and I have a 20mb connection. Obviously the Chromecast aspect is great.

I got three months free so I will continue to play and see then if I will renew

I bought a couple games already and those are always in your library. So just add all the free ones. If you cancel those games are still available to you

I'm hooking it up in my room when I go in for surgery.

cmrdporcupine• 6 years ago

Thanks for saying the Chromecast aspect is great. I worked on the streaming receiver component for Chromecast. :-) I've been wondering how well it's been working for people -- my home internet won't work for Stadia, and I'm working on other things now.

dbcooper• 6 years ago

Anyone play turn based 4X games on Stadia? Seems like a good use case.

dig6x• 6 years ago

Read on a business insider article "$130 for access to a game store – a game store largely filled with games that are already available on other platforms, sometimes for less money – is a hard sell." Seems like Google just chucking resources at a "hot" industry... was definitely getting backlash a few months post launch

raywu• 6 years ago

It has not cross platform with Steam, which kind of sucks. I cannot play with friends that are not on Stadia.

Fire-Dragon-DoL2• 6 years ago

I can't try it due to the drastically reduced catalog.

This in my view is the biggest problem.

d0gbread3• 6 years ago

You can still try it, if you'd like to.

Fire-Dragon-DoL2• 6 years ago

True, let me rephrase:

The drastically reduced catalog makes it currently unattractive to a heavy gamer. Granted that this is very subjective.

My taste is very complicated, so it's of course my own problem, but the number of titles is indeed very restricted.

d0gbread3• 6 years ago

Stadia has been perfect for me, zero complaints. The subscription is well worth having a library of games to explore (or replay, in the case of Superhot).

I'm a new dad, so jumping in and out of games is important. Sadia makes that easy, unlike the huge updates on my Switch (nevermind the filled SD card). I also love that I can move room to room without needing additional docks - just a multi purpose chromecast.

There is so much fear/noise in this thread about Google shutting it down, and I gotta say, I'm just not worried about that. If it happens, so be it, I'll have gotten plenty of value out of the platform. Are you not going to see a movie in a movie theater because you don't own it after and the theater might go out of business someday? Are you all still buying Blu-ray? Everything dies, live a little, go stream Doom Eternal.

lihan• 6 years ago

I will be waiting this in Australia forever. Right now the COVID-19 is over so this isn’t relevant.

ID1452319• 6 years ago

Brilliant. I've played PUBG constantly since May and before that Division 2 - two "low latency" games which apparently should suffer on Stadia.

I think since November I've paid the monthly subs twice, due to the "free" months from the Founder's Edition and then Google offering another three months free.

I've bought a handful of games, the most expensive was Grid for £55 and Division 2 (£8) and the WoNY expansion (£25).

I have a fairly standard connection, 40Mbps down and 18 up.

Overall it has vastly exceeded by expectations. As a causal gamer I find it perfect to dip in and out of, without the need to layout £500 on a console or wait for huge Gb updates.

hbogert• 6 years ago

experience based on chrome under linux; it was laggy, while I should've been the best case they could cater to. FiberTTH, 2ms to google.

It constantly gave me the laggyness that you get on a console, but on a PC, but worse!

Yes, you get used to it, until you play something locally again and are reminded it's not good. (maybe it was my setup to blame in this case.)

itchynosedev• 6 years ago

I love the experience of firing some adventure games on my Macbook, grabbing the controller and chilling on the sofa.

My xbox one x and a 4k screen in the office room, but I can't be bothered to sit in the chair and wait until everything boots to play for an hour on a Tuesday night.

The video artifacts can make the picture a bit muddy (esp. darker levels or games) but all in all, it runs smoothly, I can't notice any input lag that's longer than on my xbox.

Games start quickly, run smoothly, and there are some bangers that will take me months to exhaust, so I am not that worried about the library.

The issues start when someone in your house starts streaming HD videos, than stuttering begins. I have 100 mbit copper, I am pretty close to google data centers it seems, in Western Europe.

I bought Stadia controller and a few games. The controller feels great and pairs quickly. I mostly game either on my Windows PC through chrome (4k) or my macbook (1080).

I really love it!

Ask HN: What is the current state of Google Stadia?

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