Surf industry paradox: Surfing, by its nature, contradicts basic capitalism

https://beachgrit.com/2020/02/the-surf-industry-paradox-surfing-by-its-very-nature-inherently-contradicts-basic-capitalism/

by tangue • 6 years ago

88 144 6 years ago

beachgrit.com

lidHanteyk• 6 years ago

Like, totally, bro. Capitalism is just how the man gets us down.

The bigger lesson: Humans don't desire consumerist society.

0x4477• 6 years ago

The bigger lesson: Humans don't desire consumerist society.

How exactly is this the case? By all metrics, humans love consumerism and it, or rather capitalism, allow us to enjoy an exceedingly high quality of life.

ben_w2• 6 years ago

I would say: Consumerism helped grow the economy from the end of the agrarian era/start of the industrial era to a poorly delimited point in our recent history when we transitioned from industry to services. After that point, consumerism has been as bad for our mental health as high fructose corn syrup has been for our waistlines.

Manufacturing and agriculture combine to less than a fifth of American GDP today; I say it would be better quality of life if Americans worked one day a week for the same material possessions, but the drive to consume ever more is the primary impediment to that. Similar arguments apply in the other G20 economies, but I’m not going to quantify them.

Of course, I’m not an economist, so perhaps I’m doing a gross disservice to the real value of the service sector…

phatfish• 6 years ago

Profit seeking corporations love consumerism, most humans are fine with a safe warm place to live and enough food to raise a family.

Convincing them to voluntarily transfer their wealth to someone else is the goal of consumerism, hence the ridiculous money spend on propaganda convincing people they need more things than they want.

mkettn2• 6 years ago

No it doesn't. Surfing had it's boom and bust and now is a normal sport/hobby like skiing or everything else.

In the future one could also argue: tech industry contradicts basic capitalism: nowadays anybody has a smartphone, the phones cannot get any better, and everyone takes care of their smartphone because they don't want to pay alot money for a new one.

DanCarvajal3• 6 years ago

Yeah I'm decidedly confused about the author's conception of surfing. They seem to be under an impression that the sport/hobby has inherent philosophical values.

meheleventyone• 6 years ago

It's more that the core that would consider themselves the core have some widely shared values. Lot's of "lifestyle"/"adventure" sports are similar. And these are the people that started the brands that ended up not living up to their values.

monkeynotes• 6 years ago

I think that's a common conception of many surfers. Surfing is somewhat entrenched in philosophy. Surfers have philosophical concepts of individualism, territory, ecology, morality, and existential concepts surrounding their place in nature and what is truly important in life to be happy.

Surfers can be considered to live their life like any spiritual individual. Their _god_ is the ocean, their pursuit is happiness in the moment recognizing risk and danger is a necessary component for a full life.

bagacrap3• 6 years ago

Surfing is inherently limited in its scope by the number of surfable beaches. There's not room for unbounded expansion of the industry, unless you count surf-inspired lifestyle apparel.

kls• 6 years ago

That limitation may not hold true for much longer:

http://www.kswaveco.com/

mkettn2• 6 years ago

No, its not. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_surfing

jasonkester• 6 years ago

The article touches on the answer, briefly, about halfway down: The Surf Industry isn't about Surfing.

Most of the things that the big Surf brands make are not useful for the actual act of Surfing. Even boardshorts from the major boardshort companies, about half their range can't be worn surfing. They're made from non-stretch fabric and intended to be worn around on the street.

Google up a "surf shop" in a big coastal town, pick the biggest, most obvious one, and chances are you wouldn't be able to equip yourself to go surfing with the things you can buy there. It'll be wall to wall boardshorts and hoodies, with a hundred pairs of sunglasses along the wall and maybe half a dozen shiny new boards stood up in a corner for decorative purposes. Observe the looks the staff will give each other if you try to ring one of those up.

If you want to go surfing, you need to find the little hole-in-the wall shop off the beach a ways, which will be stuffed full of wetsuits and boards, to the point where you can hardly walk around without knocking half the store down. They'll also have a few hundred pairs of boardshorts there, but surprisingly these ones will all have stretchy fabric and crotches that don't tear apart if you sink to your knees.

The Big Surf Brands know that most of their business comes from selling sunglasses and flip flops to people who want to look like surfers. And they're doing fine.

toyg• 6 years ago

Uh they are not doing fine, hence the issues at Hurley apparently, and the fact that all those brands have crashed in value.

This is more the classic “brand X is now bloated and failing because it forgot its roots when going mainstream” argument. Nothing to do with capitalism (author was a bit confused there, or clutching at straws), everything to do with losing view of your core values and value proposition.

ptah2• 6 years ago

author's point is that capitalist values is at odds with the core values and value proposition that these brands had at their genesis

cafard• 6 years ago

When Eddie Bauer declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy, I was amused to see the New York Times describe it as an "outdoorsy" brand. Well, in those days you could be an Eddie Bauer branded sports ute.

dls2016• 6 years ago

This is more the classic “brand X is now bloated and failing because it forgot its roots when going mainstream” argument. Nothing to do with capitalism

I'm not sure I'd say nothing to do with capitalism. Underneath many of these "bloated" brands you find the same pattern. A niche or well-respected brand purchased by a private equity firm. They proceed to hollow out the brand (move production, cut warranties and customer support, etc.) while simultaneously playing financial tricks to extract money (saddle the company with debt/management fees).

This pattern may or may not be one unique to capitalism, but it's surely one which occurs frequently in the US implementation.

lowdose• 6 years ago

It's a cult, some say these "surfers" are the hipsters of the 90's.

monk_e_boy2• 6 years ago

Maybe not cult, but 'trendy' for sure. It was skateboarding, windsurfing, surfing etc .... trends come and go.

brudgers4• 6 years ago

There aren't enough surfers in the world to support the needs of capital at the scale of Wall Street. There aren't enough surfers because it's hard to partake in surfing and partaking involves being cold and wet and many mouthfuls of salt water. Regularly partaking means living somewhere with good surf. That's not most of the world. Regularly partaking means having a lifestyle that affords time for surfing. That's not most lifestyles. Surfing is and has always been mostly aspirational.

Causality1• 6 years ago

This is identical to every other "hobby as culture". For example, hunting and the cornucopia of camo-patterned clothes and random objects. Camo easy chairs. Pink deer bumper stickers.

Apocryphon• 6 years ago

Country-western and cowboy culture also come to mind.

LeifCarrotson2• 6 years ago

It's more nefarious and subtle than that.

The trick is that you first get popular among actual surfers. That's a tiny population, the population doesn't like to spend money, it takes expensive R&D, expensive materials, difficult manual assembly for the abusive and difficult environment: not a lot of profit or market cap there.

But the dark pattern that the 'surf industry' have discovered and exploited, is that you then silently pivot to the market of people who wished they looked cool like surfers. That's a much bigger population, they have more money, and they don't care about the materials or performance of the gear.

Starting out as an actual surf business is optional, but encouraged, as it will help you market the story that you make cool surf gear. Skip that step if people will come into your department store anyways, just make the logo look similar to a prominent manufacturer. Similar tactics can be employed effectively in selling just about anything: SUVs and sports cars, ski gear, health food, artistic furniture...

merpnderp• 6 years ago

How is this a dark pattern? The people buying the goods are happy with the exchange, and it's not like they don't know they're posers buying into the culture.

kevin_thibedeau• 6 years ago

The same as Harley Davidson as a lifestyle brand that sells motorcycles on the side.

rasz2• 6 years ago

You just described Apple business model. Remember the push for professional users? audio, film, devs. But then we got race to the thinnest laptop, Final Cut Pro X prunning pro users, new T2 chipped macs dropping audio samples from USB interfaces etc.

Reedx• 6 years ago

Steve Jobs on Nike:

"But the best example of all and one of the greatest jobs of marketing that the universe has ever seen is Nike. Remember, Nike sells a commodity. They sell shoes! And yet when you think of Nike you feel something different than a shoe company. In their ads, as you know, they don’t ever talk about the product, they don’t ever tell you about their air soles and why they're better than Reebok’s air soles.

What is Nike doing in their advertising? They honor great athletes and they honor great athletics. That’s who they are, that’s what they are about."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz1_tOXfSeM

drcross• 6 years ago

Jobs did great things but the halo effect on this website gets too much. Theres nothing profound or even really interesting in that quote. It's the stuff you'd hear in a primer marketing class.

kagenouta• 6 years ago

So you're saying, then, that it's some sort of cowabunga lifestyle?

euroclydon2• 6 years ago

Weird that non-surfers don't want clothes with a comfortable range of motion. I buy pants from REI just to be comfortable while sitting at my desk writing code.

aportela2• 6 years ago

hello!

not actually replying to this comment - was just trying to figure out a way to get in touch with you!

I just moved to Durham from NYC for work, and was looking through HN to see if there were any ongoing meetups, etc. in the area. Saw your post about an RTP meetup (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6754755), any luck getting this started?

Even if not, would love any tips you might have for meeting new people / getting involved in the tech community around here. Or even meeting up in person just to chat!

Thank you - hope you have a wonderful weekend

dredmorbius3• 6 years ago

That's an excellent articulation of the Tyranny of the Minimum Viable User, but in wetwear rather than software or hardware.

https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/69wk8y/the_tyr...

coverup• 6 years ago

Believe it or not, there was once a day when Quik just made great boardshorts, O’Neill made great wetsuits, Oakley made the sunnies, etc. Soon, however, it seemed like all brands were in literally every category, unfortunately, not always doing that with much quality.

I wonder if this is a natural consequence of the drive for "growth"–whether that be in terms of more profit, more features, or anything else. You see it in the big tech companies, which have a tendency to expand into areas like social media, cloud, and self-driving cars, regardless of their original product line. Programming languages, where as a language ecosystem ages, it grows to acquire the features of every other language. Niche communities and countercultures online and off get diluted into meaninglessness once they catch on with too many people. Memes degrade. Information entropy increases monotonically.

I'm reminded of a poem by Gerard Manley Hopkins called "God's Grandeur".

  The world is charged with the grandeur of God.
    It will flame out, like shining from shook foil;
    It gathers to a greatness, like the ooze of oil
  Crushed. Why do men then now not reck his rod?
  Generations have trod, have trod, have trod;
    And all is seared with trade; bleared, smeared with toil;
    And wears man's smudge and shares man's smell: the soil
  Is bare now, nor can foot feel, being shod.

  And for all this, nature is never spent;
    There lives the dearest freshness deep down things;
  And though the last lights off the black West went
    Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs —
  Because the Holy Ghost over the bent
    World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings.

Because for all this tendency towards monoculture, there is just as much evidence all around us of humanity's seemingly limitless capacity for reinvention and creation. Maybe decay is necessary in order to clear the way for what's to come. Maybe we should celebrate it!

allsunny2• 6 years ago

For the record, O’Neill still makes great wetsuits.

codingslave3• 6 years ago

"Surfers, for the most part, don’t need more stuff, don’t want more surfers, don’t care about grabbing attention, etc."

This is actually completely true. I'm friends with a guy who owns a surf shop in one of the highest grossing areas for surfing equipment/clothing in southern california, his biggest gripe with the industry is that surfers spend no money. They won't pay for parking, won't pay for surf apps, won't buy a new board unless they have to, don't really buy the clothes, etc. It's part of the culture.

Edit:

To add to his perspective, it's not about getting wealthy from surfing. The guy has been surfing his whole life, is a lifelong lifeguard, surfs 20 foot waves.

He just wishes the industry could grow and innovate, but instead sees it stagnate. Sure the vibe and love for surfing is there, but I think he is frustrated that there is no wealth in the industry to foster further growth and investment.

But then again, the way I see it is surfing as a sport is extremely limited, you can only do it on coasts, and only some coasts are actually consistently good for it.

monk_e_boy2• 6 years ago

When we go to the beach twice a day for a surf - who can afford to pay for parking? Plus the jog to the beach is good for you.

And some people what to look like a surfer. I am a surfer who wants to look like a normal person.

Who buys a new board if they don't have to? Madness. I choose my equipment carefully, it has to match my style. Standing on some clever foam out in the middle of the ocean is tricky and very personal.

I wouldn't say it's part of the culture, it's just being normal. I don't upgrade my PC to stay on trend. I don't upgrade my surfboard to stay on trend. They are tools.

sooheon2• 6 years ago

Do you think propensity to spend is perfectly equal across all hobbies? Is it possible that surfers spend less relative to something like photography or sailing?

By saying it's "just being normal", you're signaling that sensible frugality is normal to you. It's possible that value has some correlation with your identity as a surfer, no?

bagacrap3• 6 years ago

Why is he even in the industry then? It sounds like he set up shop in a high rent area and I doubt he can compete on price with online retailers. It's a dubious choice from a business perspective. Hardcore surfers probably know as much as he does about the products he's selling, or know enough to find them online for cheaper, so what is the value add he offers? I'm sure he chose this line of work bc he wants to be around surfers and near the beach etc, but maybe he should have tried something more boring and profitable if lack of success is going to bother him.

codingslave3• 6 years ago

He's in his late 30s, been surfing his whole life, it is his life. He still does well for himself very well for himself, but I think he just wishes the industry could grow and innovate, but instead sees it stagnate. Sure the vibe and love for surfing is there, but I think he is frustrated that there is no wealth in the industry to foster further growth and investment.

b5n• 6 years ago

No one wants to pay for parking.

Surf apps suck, they're generally asking around $10 a month, and they do little more than provide prettified weather buoy data.

_Decent_ wetsuits are in the $300 - $500 range, new board $600 - $1000. I think it's pretty capitalist to let some kook buy it new and then snag it from them off craigslist for %30 - %50 of retail.

everybodyknows• 6 years ago

Free, privacy-preserving alternative to surf app:

https://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=SGX&issuedby=S...

codingslave3• 6 years ago

This made me laugh, because everyone I know does exactly this for the boards off of craigslist.

ako• 6 years ago

All money saved is spend on surf-trips searching for the best waves... And working less, to have more time surfing.

john_cogs2• 6 years ago

Exactly this.

0xffff2• 6 years ago

He just wishes the industry could grow and innovate...

What does that even mean? If all of the surfers are happy, why does the industry need to innovate? Why is constant innovation always seen as a good thing?

geodel• 6 years ago

Well maybe industry thinks that butterfly surfboards like butterfly keyboards is innovation worth having.

stronglikedan• 6 years ago

Surfers...don’t care about grabbing attention

I chuckled at this bit, because I grew up in a surf town and still live nearby. Every surfer I've every known has been an attention hog, and they will find a way let you know they surf within minutes of meeting you.

dredmorbius3• 6 years ago

What of the surfers you didn't meet?

nradov4• 6 years ago

Laird Hamilton is trying to grow and innovate the surfing industry.

https://www.lairdhamilton.com/

brudgers4• 6 years ago

Waves don't innovate. An app won't mitigate the risk of drowning. Neither will a new board. Serious surfing revolves around risk assessment and mitigation and a flow of opportunities. If you can look out the window and see the waves, there's not much point in an app. In the old days, the surf report was a recorded message over POTS. The local spot doesn't need an app. Serious surfing is local.

anonsivalley652• 6 years ago

As Louis Rossmann would say:

Don't worry, Gov "King" Cuomo will require a surfing license very soon, that is unless he doesn't outlaw it like e-bikes first.

ptah2• 6 years ago

Personally, I only buy clothes etc that I need. Skateboarding and surfing has had a major positive influence on my life so I tend to buy from brands that sponsor and support riders that I like. I don't buy lots anyway though.

stefanix• 6 years ago

Not a contradiction. Voluntary exchange is central to Capitalism. Option to resist excessive marketing is within the framework. It's a cultural thing which some sub-cultures are better at then others.

GrayTextIsTruth• 6 years ago

The Hurley debacle is getting most of the press these days
...And, of course, we all know about Hurley by now

No I don’t. I even had to search myself and still don’t know. Just tell the reader, we don’t all follow surfer/skate news.

What happened to Hurley? They closing shop?

allsunny2• 6 years ago

Originally owned by a “core” surfer, Bob Hurley, but was later sold to Nike. They still got a pass with some surfers because they made decent wetsuits and sponsored top surfers. Nike sold off the brand very recently and started cutting staff and sponsorships. The rumor is they’ll now start schilling their stuff in low budget retailers. Surfers have quickly jumped ship now that any semblance of being a “real” surf brand is gone.

majos• 6 years ago

Now? I've been seeing Hurley, Billabong, etc. clothes in downmarket retailers like Ross and TJ Maxx for at least a decade.

Fricken3• 6 years ago

The climbing apparel industry is the same way. Patagonia, North Face, Black Diamond and Arcteryx all began as brands that catered specifically to the needs of climbers and alpinists, but now sell primarily to yuppies.

It used to be that if you were wearing Canada Goose, it was because you were on some kind of expedition to the Arctic. Then movie directors decided Canada Goose was the way to go to stay cozy while on an outdoor movie set. I think it was Sundance 2007 and all of the sudden all the cool kids had Canada Goose parkas.

Now middle class people wear Canada Goose parkas to signal to others their propensity for getting ripped off.

HyperLinear• 6 years ago

Same for Helly Hansen that went from sailing/climbing gear to generic fashion.

goatinaboat2• 6 years ago

used to be that if you were wearing Canada Goose, it was because you were on some kind of expedition

Isn’t their slogan now “built for urban winters”? They aren’t even pretending to be genuine any more, and that only makes them more appealing to posers, who think that “urban” means something else

look_lookatme2• 6 years ago

Patagonia, North Face, Black Diamond and Arcteryx all began as brands that catered specifically to the needs of climbers and alpinists, but now sell primarily to yuppies.

They may sell a subset of their product to yuppies, but you can still outfit yourself for just about any outdoor pursuit with these companies and trust the gear they sell. TNF and BD tents are still high quality, TNF and BD and Patagonia jackets can be used on any trip. And Arcteryx is some of the highest quality cold weather clothing in the world. I would probably only prefer Western Mountaineering or Hilleberg to a combination of products from these 4 manufacturers. BD probably makes more money on selling headlamps to anglers and hunters than they do on yuppies buying climbing pants.

The brands are nowhere near the lowend lifestyle fashion grab-bags that Oakley, Hurley, Quiksilver or O'Neill are...

Fricken3• 6 years ago

I agree. The core product lines from the major technical outdoor brands are still very high quality, and field tested up the ying yang. More conventional fashion brands try to imitate the technical outdoor brands and they fail miserably.

mtberatwork• 6 years ago

They may sell a subset of their product to yuppies

I think you have this backwards. They make their profit off the yuppies buying the latest product year after year. The hardcore users aren't buying new tents, jackets, snow pants, etc every year.

mc32• 6 years ago

Petzl is interesting in its primarily an industry outfitter, but also serves some outdoors activities.

nataz2• 6 years ago

(Moved comment)

leroy_masochist• 6 years ago

You beat me to it. Virtually every outdoor sports brand makes a big chunk of its revenue and an even bigger chunk of its margin selling "lifestyle merch" -- T-shirts, sunglasses, etc. I fail to see how this is offensive or inappropriate.

Similarly, it is intuitive that professional investors are going to want to try to buy companies like Hurley and Billabong amidst a societal trend of more people wanting to seem more surfer-like and buying T-shirts that convey the message "I'm into surf culture".

The anticapitalist tone of the linked article is especially ironic given that the popularity of surfing in the non-Hawai'ian world was driven entirely by the post-WWII economic expansion in the US mainland and AUS that gave teenage baby boomers spending money in the early 60's. Surfing has always been co-opted by capitalism; there are old dudes in the lineup at Dana Point who were bitching about the fakeness of the Beach Boys and Gidget when they were young men 50+ years ago.

None of this is new.

city41• 6 years ago

Heck I’d even say many tech companies are like this. Their core product works and is for all intents and purposes “done”, but they still keep growing. Dropbox is a good example IMO.

PaulDavisThe1st8• 6 years ago

Canada Goose was a consumer brand for many people in Seattle when I lived there 89-96.

pelasaco• 6 years ago

Well I can just disagree. I'm surfer, 20 years surfing, and it's just as any other sport. The image of the free surfer, almost hippie, has 0 to do with the reality, if you are over 30s. Grow up!

surfmike• 6 years ago

The article conflates capitalism with consumer materialism.

gwbas1c• 6 years ago

Uhm, what, those brands actually made surfing clothes?

I honestly thought those brands made cool looking extremely casual clothes! Obviously, styles change and things go out of fashion.

Heck, I still own a pair of Volcom board shorts I accidentally bought 15 years ago because I thought they were a cool-looking bathing suit. I even wore them the one time I went surfing in Hawaii. I don't wear them often, because they don't have pockets, but when the occasion calls for them, (like spring skiing,) I love them.

dahdum2• 6 years ago

I don’t think of board shorts as surf clothes, they are fast drying swim trunks you can wear around town. Great for all water sports, I usually wear mine under my wetsuit.

Billabong also makes a line of khaki shorts (walk shorts I think they’re called) with the same material that are amazing for hot and humid tropical weather. Dry super quickly if they get wet, very light, and slightly stretchy.

nradov4• 6 years ago

Board shorts are too loose and long to wear comfortably under a properly fitted wetsuit. They get all bunched up.

FlyingSideKick• 6 years ago

Most of the best boards don’t come off factory presses instead they are built by someone with great passion in a small warehouse or garage. These guys are happy just getting by and sharing the stoke with customers they know. Moreover, once you become addicted to surfing that’s all one cares about. True surfers don’t care about the hype around the latest thing, once you buy your board and a wetsuit all you care about is getting that glide. If I didn’t have a family to support I’d make the yearly circuit from Sri Lanka, Peru, etc and just live on the beach for less than $10 a day and would be perfectly satisfied. I feel sorry for my office mates who don’t have any hobbies or escapes and instead are focused on the next bonus or promotion either for their egos or so they can buy more stuff. I just want more time off to travel with my family and surf. After 3 startups and 23 years in tech and many, many 12 hour days I can tell you the whole system is empty. Despite recognition or financial success there’s nothing in the system that brings true long term happiness, but the natural meditation when waiting on the wave or for the next set does.

jandrese• 6 years ago

That's great, but from a capitalist standpoint it doesn't seem surprising that a company would struggle when they have a labor intensive product and their customers are largely cash poor. Worse, they set up shop in expensive coastal cities. It's kind of a miracle the companies survived at all. I get that the guy who runs it is passionate and is willing to also be cash poor, but the city has got to be breathing down his neck about the property taxes in a town where half a duplex goes for over a million dollars.

lotsofpulp• 6 years ago

Everyone knows that, but everyone, like you I suspect, is playing the game to optimize their children’s (or family’s) position in the social order.

Desire to secure their future resource/financial security really throws a wrench in “letting it all go”.

brudgers4• 6 years ago

In the social order of surfers, optimization is living at the waves so the kids can surf with mom and pop. And with grandma and grandpa when there are grandkids. Locals are always the top of every surfing pecking order.

brudgers4• 6 years ago

True surfers

Consider the statement: "A true surfer would be surfing, not commenting on Hacker News." No True Scotsman is fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

john_cogs2• 6 years ago

Have you read "All our waves are water" by Jaimal Yogis? Based on this comment, I think you would enjoy.

loxs2• 6 years ago

This article shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what capitalism is. Capitalism is not an entity that has its own free will and desires. Capitalism is a projection of what people want. If surfers want what they want, then that is capitalism for them.

PaulDavisThe1st8• 6 years ago

There are many books that would dispute your second sentence.

I'll just note that what most people consider capitalism really consists of three components:

1) "free markets" in which what is sold and for how much is not (heavily) regulated 2) an entrepeneurial environment in which starting (and stopping) commercial enterprises is relatively easy and happens often 3) preferentially biasing the distribution of the rewards of commercial enterprises towards those who invest capital, rather than those who invest labor or IP.

There's no rule that says you couldn't have a system with just 1 or 2 of those 3. Either way, they interact to create a social system which does indeed tend to drive a society in certain directions, and inhibit its ability to move in others.

loxs2• 6 years ago

It's true, but still the driving force is a common denominator of "what people want".

asdfman123• 6 years ago

This is just the end result of demanding quarterly growth out of everything.

Start with a brand that has "cool" factor, milk it for all its worth, obliterate the brand, and walk away with your CEO bonuses.

motohagiography• 6 years ago

This is consistent with most lifestyle brands. Look at rock climbing. The people who spend their lives free climbing don't spend $300 on a hoodie and even if they did, there are diminishingly few of them to sustain a luxury company. Every autumn people in cities dress like they've just stepped off a horse or are on their way to a grouse shoot without the land, means, or skill to do either. Dressing like a rock star doesn't make you one, but that never stopped anyone from paying $200 for a pair of jeans.

It's not capitalism, it's something else. On the consumer side, it's "mimetic desire," which is a whole complex thing.

On the creative side, when you love something, how do you find a way to make enough money at it that you can do it as a way of life? Then once you do, how do you compete with well capitalized people whose interests aren't divided and who specialize in selling empty symbols to rubes? (answer: teaching, performance, and elite competition)

When you are actually good at something, you don't buy symbolic things to represent it because representing it is hollow and absurd. It's not a paradox of capitalism at all. When you are actually good at something you love, you are above the fray. Paradoxes and criticisms are the noisy artifacts of people reconciling symbols, and not meaningful to people who are engaged in the moment.

So, I'd say there is no surf industry, just an industry that sells surf symbols, and to surfers its failure is necessarily meaningless.

Turing_Machine• 6 years ago

Every autumn people in cities dress like they've just stepped off a horse or are on their way to a grouse shoot without the land, means, or skill to do either.

The (now purely decorative) holes punched in wingtip (U.S.)/brogue (U.K.) shoes were originally there to let water drain out, as they were a sporting/outdoor shoe.

Basically they were the Crocs of their day.

PaulDavisThe1st8• 6 years ago

Dressing like a rock star doesn't make you one, but that never stopped anyone from paying $200 for a pair of jeans.

Ironic, given the original utterly utilitarian origin of jeans.

cma• 6 years ago

And civilian khaki's were probably to pose and steal valor from the military. Almost everything style wise is deep with symbolism that sometimes loses touch with any original meaning.

m-watson• 6 years ago

I don't think it solves everything but it is why I like the concept of B-Corps. I think the growth at all costs concept is at odds often with other important factors but we can adjust. I think B-Corps are a good start at re-aligning our evolving needs and our existing systems.

nataz2• 6 years ago

Highly recommend the book "Let My People Go Surfing:The Education of a Reluctant Businessman, Including 10 More Years of Business Unusual" by Yvon Chouinard the founder of Patagonia and the precursor to Black Diamond (he spun BD out and sold it to his employees after losing a frivolous lawsuit).

The man is a legend in the climbing community, and wrote a whole book on balancing professional vs enthusiast gear while following his own moral compass.

It's a fascinating and worthwhile read for anyone who wants to find your own internal balance on being true to yourself and your values, while dealing with the realities of running a business. The discussions on what do we owe ourselves and others is a refreshing take on what it means to be successful.

d3ntb3ev1l• 6 years ago

[a] industry paradox.[a], by its nature, contradicts basic capitalism.

Replace a with basically anything people do.

Surf industry paradox: Surfing, by its nature, contradicts basic capitalism

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