Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

https://blog.basilgohar.com/2020/01/06/laptop-oems-make-a-proper-high-end-amd-laptop/

by basilgohar • 7 years ago

236 170 7 years ago

blog.basilgohar.com

basilgohar9• 7 years ago

With AMD announcing truly Zen2-based mobile APUs, I felt it was important to gather all the mistakes laptop OEMs have been making and call them out so that at least a voice exists capturing these complaints. Unfortunately, you cannot vote with your wallet if the option you want does not yet exist. Here's hoping that they start to listen.

bb88• 7 years ago

Thunderbolt-3 is the way of the future. People are building thunderbolt 3 external chassis with a gaming card and extra storage in lieu of having a desktop computer and a laptop computer.

errantspark2• 7 years ago

This is how I'm rolling these days (HP Spectre 13" + 1080Ti inside an Akitio Node) and it's not without it's issues, but overall I'm very bullish on this type of thing. I would love for a similar AMD powered laptop, especially if they would let me mess with the fan curves etc. With some hackery my Spectre can be configured to a 20W up-TDP state over it's normal 15W, and when connected to the node I can have it in tent-mode, which improves the cooling a fair bit, as long as the fans stay on full blast (which unfortunately can only be achieved by pushing it to the thermal limit briefly) it stays at a nice ~80C at 25C ambient under all core loads. I manage 240FPS in Overwatch, it's fantastic.

This being said I opted for the 1080p screen (wish it was 1200p) and I personally see little reason to get a UHD screen in a laptop this size, it would be nice if it was a 10 bit HDR OLED screen with 400nits, but I can definitely live without the extra resolution, it's pretty meaningless on a screen this small, and most of the time when I'm at home I'm using a 144Hz gaming panel anyway.

chx• 7 years ago

It is not. Intel gave away the TB3 standard to the USB IF who made USB 4 out of it and that is the way of the future. It came out in '19 August, the differences are small but important: where the TB3 bus only carried PCI Express and DisplayPort signals the USB 4 Gen 3 bus also carries USB signals. Previously the USB ports on a TB3 dock / enclosure were implemented using the hotplug USB root hub in the TB3 controller in the TB3 device and it often resulted in a less than satisfactory experience (in other words, it sucked so badly some manufacturers used two TB3 controllers to make it better).

TB3 enclosures will be usable by USB 4 hosts.

pjmlp3• 7 years ago

Or just get a laptop with dual graphics card, having a gaming/workstation class card

I don't own a desktop since 2004.

Nursie2• 7 years ago

Such laptops are usually pretty bulky/heavy, or they have a very low-end discrete card. They're a compromise.

jotm3• 7 years ago

Me neither, but I look at eGPU enclosures regularly. I don't even need the GPU power, but a desktop card is miles ahead of a laptop if well cooled and overclocked.

Will consume a lot of power though, and it definitely doesn't look like a portable solution.

barrkel• 7 years ago

Every laptop I've used is thermally limited if you try to do anything interesting computation wise. Simple things like 8 minute compiles turn into 12 minutes on a laptop, with fans at full blast.

shmerl2• 7 years ago

USB4 really. TB3 will be replaced with the former. So TB is becoming history.

hoseja2• 7 years ago

I know it might be practical and hip if you're constantly on the move, but, eww.

evadne• 7 years ago

In that sense, it is not a very good version of the future. https://egpu.io is a good resource to get started on this. The 4-lane (sometimes only 2-lane) configuration of Thunderbolt 3 controllers, the overhead of the protocol and Intel’s insistence to reserve DisplayPort and USB bandwidth has made TB3 slower — 22Gbps maximum in a 32Gbps port hosting graphic cards that are usually electrically connected at 128Gbps (PCIe 3.0 x16).

I am going back the other way now, after having used an external enclosure for years.

TheOperator7• 7 years ago

I agree yet at the same time I avoided it largely because it's a zero-redundancy setup and a desktop/laptop setup is fundamentally more reliable... and it allows the failure of one device to not involved panicked repairs. Plus I do like the ability to segregrate the devices by function, or use one device to repair the other device. Also I'm staggered by the price of these GPU adapters considering the often crap quality of the hardware.

Yet I wouldn't be surprised to see myself go this way in the future especially because my phone only becomes a more and more capable "Backup" every year.

sfshaw• 7 years ago

With all these CES announcements, it's sadly too late to save devices shipping later this quarter. :(

basilgohar9• 7 years ago

You're right, but it's a good time to highlight the problem with all the attention on AMD products now. Hopefully someone's listening and can point to this to influence, however slightly, opinions in a constructive manner.

aclatuts• 7 years ago

The Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 pretty much has all this. David Lee even has a raving review about the Zephyrus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v5IzvVTw7A

onebot• 7 years ago

This looks like a killer laptop. Love the exterior pixels. Hope linux will run on it.

codegladiator• 7 years ago

I have Zephyrus gx531, ubuntu (dual boot with windows) works perfectly (had to hack nothing), so I assume it would most probably work smoothly on Zephyrus G14 as well

oliwarner2• 7 years ago

Hope linux will run on it

Me too. The cover "pixels" and the custom "caching" fingerprint reader are the sorts of features that easily get left behind proprietary drivers (for no good reason).

I really wish the EU would use some of their GDPR-focussed zeal and mandate that peripherals must either have open spec sheets or function on open APIs. I'm not suggesting that manufacturers have to write drivers, just ensure that anybody else can.

jotm3• 7 years ago

That looks promising!

monocasa• 7 years ago

Until AMD (well, TSMC) had process node advantage parity it didn't make sense for AMD to compete at the high end portable market. Now they do, so they will.

wyxuan• 7 years ago

Microsoft recently offered a model of the surface lineup with a ryzen mobile processor. That can't count for nothing right?

mister_hn4• 7 years ago

It's not high-end at all.

Only 8GB Ram, no dedicated GPU, no PCIe 4.0 drive..

nrp• 7 years ago

It’s worth noting that neither AMD nor Intel’s latest notebook CPUs support PCIe 4.0. I imagine that won’t be coming until the next generation. Also, you can configure the Surface Laptop 3 being referred to with up to 32GB of RAM: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-Lapt...

blitmap• 7 years ago

I would like the [new] Dell XPS 2-in-1 with the 3840x2400 screen, as an OLED - using an AMD processor. There's been a lot of complaints about the keyboard but i find it strangely fantastic. Yes it takes getting used to, but I can type faster on _reliable_ low-profile keys. Wish the SSD weren't soldered in. Seriously, I've waited forever for 3840x2400. I like the Surface laptops but I need at least >= 2160 in the vertical so i can watch a 1080p movie at native resolution and have it take up a quarter of the screen while I websurf/program. :(

intsunny• 7 years ago

I'm convinced there is a conspiracy that prevents laptop manufacturers from shipping AMD chips on 13" high end laptops. Almost every (every?) AMD laptop I find is some 14-15" clunker with a garbage screen.

I've had to put off buying a new macbook because of the shitty keyboard situation and all laptops (mac/pc) because it appears Intel's newest CPUs are still vulnerable to Meltdown/Spectre.

A highend 13" AMD based Linux friendly laptop would be utterly amazeballs.

snvzz2• 7 years ago

A highend 13" AMD based Linux friendly laptop would be utterly amazeballs.

Such as the Thinkpad x395 I am using, with Ryzen 3700U.

msafadieh• 7 years ago

I second this. Been using the X395 with the R3700U and it's been a blast.

feanaro• 7 years ago

I would appreciate a high-end 15" AMD "clunker" with an amazing screen, though. Preferably a ThinkPad. But such a thing is nowhere in sight either, no?

I can't work with laptops smaller than 15".

lorenzhs• 7 years ago

Lenovo has a bunch of AMD ThinkPads (X395, T495, and T495s at a 14" size, E595 at 15") with Ryzen 3000 series CPUs, but the 15" model is from the E series which isn't one of their high-end series. The T495 and T495s seem to be a really nice machines though, even before a Ryzen 4000 refresh: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T495-Review-bu... - quote: "Overall, we have to admit that the ThinkPad T495 is the better T490, especially considering its lower price." (The T490 is the Intel version) and https://www.notebookcheck.net/Goodbye-Intel-Thinkpad-T495s-w..., the title of which is "Goodbye Intel: Thinkpad T495s with AMD Ryzen is the better choice for many users"

If these prove popular (and given that they're quite a bit cheaper than the Intel models, they might), a 15" T-series Ryzen Thinkpad probably won't be too far off.

Vrondi5• 7 years ago

They announced yesterday a bunch of Ryzen 4000 laptop chip news, and a version of Dell's G5 15 Special Edition laptop is planned with one of these.

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/06/dell-g5-15-se-amd-ryzen/

SCdF• 7 years ago

If by "conspiracy" you mean "business deals where Intel uses their financial clout to compel companies to not provide AMD options", then yes, that is definitely provably happening.

I can't use google fu to find it now, but I swear I read something about this in the last 6 months or so. The best I have is from 2007: https://fortune.com/2007/02/15/suit-intel-paid-dell-up-to-1-...

valleyer2• 7 years ago

Aren't AMD processors (and virtually every processor with speculative execution) vulnerable to Spectre?

concerned_user• 7 years ago

Just as almost any other consumer processor made in the last 10 years, what is your point?

pdimitar2• 7 years ago

Yes and no. Most of the vulnerabilities are Intel-only and only a few apply to AMD as well.

TheOperator7• 7 years ago

Some of Intels design decisions made them uniquely vulnerable to Spectre and it's not simply a matter of them being a "bigger target" if that's what you're driving at. Yes though every CPU has theoretical Spectre vulnerabilities.

DCKing2• 7 years ago

There's really no conspiracy. Hardware builders just have other requirements. If AMD"s laptop chips were really better so far (this is actually very debatable), they were by a slim margin for some use cases. Not enough to offset existing business agreements with Intel, the more mature Intel laptop platform (it's more than a CPU, but also motherboards and wireless chipsets) and Intel's more mature - and already existing - supply chain and general mature manufacturer support.

AMD is now very popular amongst home PC builders because they make better chips for the money and there's not many other requirements to consider. But AMD still has a lot of inroads to make because with premade hardware builders - whether it's laptops, office PCs or even servers. For example, although AMD is making way in the server space, it's not going as fast as one might expect for them having the clearly superior server chip (for most use cases) for quite some time now.

For hardware builders it's simply a time and money investment to start using AMD hardware. And although AMD is convincing them to do it - having what appears to be clearly superior chips in the laptop space is definitely a big plus there - it's something that takes time.

syshum• 7 years ago

> Not enough to offset existing business agreements with Intel

Translation, Anti-Trust violating agreements that Intel has been guilty of in the past

hoseja2• 7 years ago

for the money

No, they now simply make better chips, period.

In addition they are also cheaper.

fortran772• 7 years ago

Users don't want to switch, either. I won't take a chance on an AMD machine to save a couple of dollars.

Maybe I'm being rational, maybe I'm not, but I'm sure I'm not the only consumer who feels this way. I want to buy the "happy path" when I'm getting a product.

modo_mario2• 7 years ago

I'm using a 13" hp envy x360 like that. It's really good for the price although would have fanspin issues until after some bios issues. Also yeah Intel has probably tried to bribe laptop manufacturers to not provide an AMD option as another comment showed.

modo_mario2• 7 years ago

late edit: Instead of "would have fanspin issues until after some bios issues." I meant "would have fanspin issues until after some bios updates."

After installing those it became properly functional and a great laptop thought it made me wonder how they managed to ship with such a big, obvious and easily resolvable issue in the device.

rsynnott3• 7 years ago

I'm convinced there is a conspiracy that prevents laptop manufacturers from shipping AMD chips on 13" high end laptops.

Based on the Anandtech review of a Surface Laptop with Intel and AMD versions (https://www.anandtech.com/show/15213/the-microsoft-surface-l...) I suspect the conspiracy in question is "the small batteries found in 13" laptops would make the power efficiency shortfall a bit too obvious".

slantyyz2• 7 years ago

This might not be so true after CES is done.

I was watching Linus Tech Tips[1] video yesterday, and Asus had a new array of nice laptops (albeit, gaming laptops) that were AMD based, including a 13" one with decent AMD CPUs

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGUESEq75ZI

tracker13• 7 years ago

About the only big shortcoming is good Thunderbolt support with AMD. I think that will gain parity eventually, but will probably be in the USB4 timeframe over the next couple years.

I watched the same videos, and will be looking at laptops over the next few months, so may well go the AMD route myself.

TheOperator7• 7 years ago

Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Intel literally has a more power-efficient SoC? I wouldn't be surprised to see more 13" AMD laptops with the 7nm die shrink next generation but even then I don't see AMD being more efficient than Intel 10nm.

llampx3• 7 years ago

Why?

Jonnax• 7 years ago

Intel have a co-marketing brand they call "Ultrabook" where most components are Intel which prevents laptop manufacturers from using the same chassis/model for AMD.

Their new "Project Athena" might be the same thing.

michalf6• 7 years ago

Zen and Zen+ mobile chips had really crappy idle power usage, so they're not that suitable for ultraportables. It may change with this generation.

fortran772• 7 years ago

Something new at CES 2020

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3512246/asus-rog-zephyrus-g1...

epiphanitus• 7 years ago

Out of curiousity, what would stop someone from just buying an AMD chipset, a 13 inch screen, and all of the rest of the components, 3d printing the chasis, and then assembling it all yourself?

krageon• 7 years ago

From other comments, the conspiracy is that AMD either doesn't give a shit or is very bad at demonstrating otherwise. No evil required, just laziness and other priorities.

snvzz2• 7 years ago

I have no complaints about my Thinkpad x395, which I use heavily (on Linux, as OpenBSD I can only use if an ethernet cable is at reach due to wireless chip being too new).

I would expect a successor on 4000U series to be even better.

jankotek• 7 years ago

Ultramobile, slim, and desktop replacements

No! I want proper thick modular 17" desktop replacement with 256GB RAM. Platform that would replace old Thinkpads.

ChuckNorris89• 7 years ago

You and me both but unfortunately we are a invisible minority since just like with phones, when it comes to laptops, consumers want something sleek and sexy that looks good in a hip cafe regardless of thermal performance or reparability.

Gaming laptops are 80% there though but the ones with good build quality and modularity carry a hefty markup.

jiggawatts2• 7 years ago

We're the "nonexistent" market of IT consultants with high incomes that need a high-end laptop. As a third-party to my clients, I cannot rely on the availability of external monitors, keyboards, docking stations, or WiFi.

I lug around a heavy Clevo laptop with a 17" 4K screen, 2x RJ-45 ports, quad-core 4 GHz CPU, and 64 GB of memory.

These are my minimum requirements, and practically nothing meets it any more!

Clevo has largely stopped making 17" 4K screens in favour of 144 Hz gaming screens.

Most laptops have tiny keyboards that are uncomfortable to type on for any length of time, and are particularly irritating if you do programming.

Most laptops are 14" or smaller, which makes my eyes hurt after an eight hour day.

Most laptops focus on battery capacity and low power operation, which doesn't affect me because I work plugged in 99% of the time.

Most laptops assume "everything is wireless" and no longer have RJ-45 connectors, let alone two, but all too often guests can't get on the main corporate network on WiFi, but can plug in to the LAN just fine.

Most laptop manufacturers are in a race to the bottom. I paid $6,000 for my laptop because it's a tax writeoff, and I'm willing to go as high as $8,000 if I get what I want.

Apparently though people like me are "too low margin to bother with" as a market...

roel_v2• 7 years ago

I've thought about making (well, more about 'having' it to be honest) a 'semi-portable' computer for people like us. Basically a briefcase that when folded open would 'swing out' two screens. Maybe you would fold it over so that the rest of the case (where the mobo etc are are in) would work as a stand for the monitors. You wouldn't be able to use it on a couch or plane but it would give you a vastly superior experience when at a desk. Sort of like a portable office. Ideally the whole inside would be 3d printed (maybe some of the display panel mounts would be metal and the rest custom) so that you can make it fit for any briefcase and any hardware you want to put in it.

jmkni• 7 years ago

PC Specialist have some nice custom built 17" laptops. You can configure them with 4k displays, 8 core i9's and 64GB Ram, might be worth checking out. Looks like they have RJ45 ports as well.

https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/octaneVI...

PudgePacket• 7 years ago

I assume you've heard of them before but just in case, System76 higher end laptops have 17" 4k, RJ-45, high end CPU, high end GPU, 64GB RAM

https://system76.com/laptops

dhd415• 7 years ago

Doesn't the Thinkpad P7x line of laptops still tick all those boxes? The only one it might not have is dual RJ45 ports, but I'd think a USB RJ45 port would suffice in the cases where a second LAN port was required.

nradov2• 7 years ago

I'm surprised you find that guests can plug into the main corporate LAN. That's a sign of totally incompetent security (unless it's a lab network or something firewalled away from the regular enterprise network). Wired Ethernet access should be locked down to only authorized devices.

shmerl2• 7 years ago

many times an AMD laptop will have ONE USB-C port and it will be used to physically power the device, thus removing it from utility.

That's indeed annoying, especially when you need to use it also to drive external monitors. I use USB-C hubs with DP output to work around that. Works well with Lenovo E495 running Linux.

Example: https://www.cablematters.com/pc-899-126-usb-c-multiport-adap...

Danieru• 7 years ago

Something no one has mentioned but I think is important to note is how the volume in laptops comes from that medium to low end range. Sure a high end thinkpad is a fantastic laptop, but it is never going to see two hundred units at the local walmart.

AMD needs to improve margins and take market share. Low end laptops bring that market share. The margins will follow once Intel cannot rely on moving the majority of chips. Until then Intel has the upper hand for low margin cheap laptops, that is the critical market.

jotm3• 7 years ago

For some reason, I do not expect Dell or HP or anyone big to release a decent, high quality workstation with AMD inside. HP has consumer laptops with Ryzen, and they're the cheapest sheet possible, as expected. I believe Dell does the same.

By decent and high quality I mean socketable CPU, GPU and RAM, as well as a good selection of ports (forget TB if it's not possible, give me eSata) and high quality displays (even if 1080p). Could not care less about the weight/size.

The only ones I can see doing that are Clevo/Sager/Eurocom, or someone with a good business plan and a well funded Kickstarter...

basilgohar9• 7 years ago

Some of the better pieces of hardware have been gaming laptops that feature desktop parts, which I believe are also socketable/replaceable. Not sure how far you can get with them, but that's one area I also hope to see growth in AMD-powered offerings.

oliwarner2• 7 years ago

Good timing! ASUS are showing off a pile of their ROG-branded gaming laptops at CES, which have 7nm, 8 core, 16T Ryzen 4000-line CPUs with RTX2060 (mobile) graphics cards, with fast screens, all in a 14" form factor. Certainly not workstations but still, considerably more powerful

More at LTT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGUESEq75ZI

libertine• 7 years ago

Came here to post this, ASUS went from 8 to 80 on AMD.

wyoh• 7 years ago

with RTX2060 (mobile) graphics cards

wish they had chosen a more Linux friendly card. Going full AMD would have been nice.

t0ddbonzalez• 7 years ago

Acer Predator Helios 500?

https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-series-featur...

basilgohar9• 7 years ago

The AMD variant does not have more than a 1080p screen. Also, seems to be no longer available when you go to the "Models" link.

mister_hn4• 7 years ago

what about an amazing 14" with the quality screen of a MacBook, a newer Ryzen 7 4800U/H, 32/64GB RAM and a PCIe 4.0 Drive.

And no RAM/SSD is soldered

kkwak• 7 years ago

As much as I hate it, I think it makes business sense for vendors to solder. You can "upgrade" by buying new. I can't imagine the business value of such a laptop - esp now that hardware improvements are slowing down (for the typical use case)

Vrondi5• 7 years ago

Time for geeks everywhere to practice their de-soldering skills.

mister_hn4• 7 years ago

What about dead SSDs or RAM defects? You swap an entire machine just for those components? And what if that 512GB drive doesn't fulfills the requirements anymore?

Illniyar• 7 years ago

"For as long as I can remember, AMD-powered laptops’ potential have been intentionally shortchanged by OEMs for any number of reasons – perceived lower value, kickbacks from Intel, or sometimes legitimate performance limitations."

Seems to be a reason missing from that least - very-low demand.

There are clunky low-end intel laptops just as much as there are AMD laptop ones. If enough people show they are willing to buy these than high-end AMD laptops will sprung up a few minutes after.

basilgohar9• 7 years ago

This is patently untrue, as I also called out in the article. Voting with your wallet is not possible if the option to buy what you want is not even presented. Moreover, the self-fulfilling cycle of offering sub-par AMD systems and then people not wanting those, and then the OEMs say, "see, we offering (lousy) AMD systems and no one got them".

The problem is there are very few DESIRABLE AMD offerings, and moreover, the vast majority of people don't even care what's inside, they are looking at price.

This is all before even mentioning that AMD systems, even when performant, have been positioned as value or low-end systems, just to differentiate between them and the Intel offerings.

It's also already heavily covered elsewhere in the thread, but Intel has been furiously and notoriously working to undermine AMD with backdoor deals to keep them from a greater marketshare.

pdimitar2• 7 years ago

Some motherboard makers have gone ahead and included it, but so far, AMD laptops with Thunderbird 3 remain elusive.

I assume the author means Thunderbolt 3 here.

basilgohar9• 7 years ago

Yes. I made that typo so many times....one slipped through....

Edit: Fixed now!

kstenerud2• 7 years ago

"There needs to be display options well above FHD/1080p."

With a 13 inch screen, 1920x1080 is at the pixel density (150) where someone with 20/20 vision won't notice pixellation from a distance of 24 inches. Even with a 15 inch display (density = 128) you're still pretty damn close. Realistically, it would make no difference in usability to go beyond 2560xwhatever in resolution on a laptop, and even that's already getting excessive. Most people with high res displays are already using magnification, which defeats the purpose of such high resolution.

I'm using the new Honor Magic Book with Ubuntu Mate installed and am quite pleased with it. Lightweight, good battery life, good screen, good touchpad (SUPER IMPORTANT), USB-C (only one port, unfortunately), dongle-free HDMI, and enough power for development. And the price can't be beat.

naniwaduni• 7 years ago

People use laptops at far closer than 24 inches, though?

Not all the time, sure. But it's kind of half the point of a laptop to be able to use them where you can't just clear out two feet to put between your face and the screen.

You can get that much space in an economy seat if you don't have a head, maybe.

kstenerud2• 7 years ago

When my laptop is in my lap, the screen is about 60 cm (24 inches) from my eyes. I could move my face 10cm closer, but not for long without being uncomfortable (any closer and my elbows would be behind my back).

When it's on a desk, the screen is at a similar distance.

drngdds• 7 years ago

That seems like a weird situation to optimize for. 24" between your laptop screen and your face is really not a lot of space.

rememberdeath• 7 years ago

I currently have a 4k 15.6 inch laptop, it is very easy to differentiate it from a 1080p one.

mcv2• 7 years ago

I certainly notice the difference between my 4K OLED 15.6" Thinkpad X1E and my old 1080p 17" MBP. The smoothness is unbelievable.

No idea whether that's the 4K or that OLED contributes too. I certainly think QHD should have been enough, but that was not an option, weirdly. Having to choose between 1080p and 4K is absurd. Give us some options in between!

akvadrako• 7 years ago

I use my 13" laptop screen at a comfortable distance of 15 in (40cm). 2K is definitionally not enough - text is either jagged or blurry. 4K is the next logical step because you can use 2x scaling.

Using scaling ("magnification") doesn't defeat the purpose. The purpose is to have clear text.

verall• 7 years ago

Unclear text is really a hinting+rendering problem but it's so often bad (cough cough Windows..) I'm also a fan of just throwing hardware at the problem. I quite like the ~3K display on my xps 13, although the occasional program (say, written in tcl or Java by a professor for a specific course) will not scale, which is "fun".

Separately though, where have all the high-dpi matte displays gone? Why's it impossible to get a 4K matte touchscreen in any laptop? I don't want to see my face in the screen while I'm trying to read something.

basilgohar9• 7 years ago

Pixelation is not the only factor that makes a high-res display worth it. Smoother fonts, scaling, and overall sharper graphics are all perceptible even if you are not consciously aware of individual pixels. All of this contributes to, or helps alleviate, eye strain and fatigue.

acephal• 7 years ago

Fonts are so god damn crispy at 4k you have a "awwww maaaan" reaction to going back down, particularly when using an aesthetically pleasing font like Fira Code Retina with ligatures

stuaxo2• 7 years ago

FFS, I hope they do this. I waited almost a year for a Lenovo that came out with single channel RAM, and got an HP instead.

Screen was only FHD, and keeping Linux working on it has been painful.

psds2• 7 years ago

It simply takes time to develop everything to make this happen. These high end ultrabooks require more time to engineer. One thing is certain, anyone developing this would surely not announce it in advance. Why piss off Intel until you have to?

deaps• 7 years ago

Reading through the comments proves different strokes for different folks.

It took me quite a while to find a laptop I'm completely happy with. I ended up with a (late-2019) Razer Blade Stealth (with gtx1650). I do run the internal screen at 1080p (at 100%) and I couldn't imagine running it at 4k. My older 13" macbook has higher resolution, but you end up having to scale it anyway (In reality, I think it's actually doubled, then scaled back). On a 13", a good quality 1080p screen (to me) is the way to go - anything higher needs scaled.

IgorPartola2• 7 years ago

TIL that in 2019 people still have DPI problems with their software.

Jestar342• 7 years ago

Xorg + multiple monitors = dpi scaling frustration.

Wayland implements per-monitor scaling but not much has made the transition yet.

pjc502• 7 years ago

Only Macs have really made high-DPI work properly, and especially having multiple monitors with very different DPI.

smolder3• 7 years ago

It's 2020 now, friend.

DanTheManPR• 7 years ago

Do you not? My work laptop has very high DPI, and I hate all the scaling issues I encounter with all the corporate software I have to use. To the point that I much prefer to plug it into a 1080p monitor.

Vrondi5• 7 years ago

Adobe Apps on Windows are terrible for this. All screen recording apps on Windows have problems if your internal monitor and external monitor have different scaling as well.

Aozi• 7 years ago

I really don't understand why there are so few QHD screens on laptops. It's always either a 1080p or 4k, while a good QHD screen would still give higher resolution while not completely murdering my battery.

mcv2• 7 years ago

Yeah, I've got a 4K Thinkpad, and the screen is gorgeous, but it's way overkill. QHD would have been good enough, but it was 4K or 1080p, and I do want a bit more than that.

TheOperator7• 7 years ago

Marketing mostly. QHD screens seem superior to 4K in a laptop form factor at this point.

For that matter I see HD as generally superior to QHD in phones and think Apple has it right.

rsynnott3• 7 years ago

They did: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15213/the-microsoft-surface-l...

Spoiler alert; it does _not_ show the AMD chip in a good light. Will be interesting to see if Zen 2 does better.

basilgohar9• 7 years ago

It was not the best of comparisons [0]. tl;dr they had different memory and the AMD hardware was older generation (nothing better available, it's true) compared to the Intel. There were other differences too.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21976211

rsynnott3• 7 years ago

Sure, as I say it'll be interesting to see if Zen 2 improves things. However, as things stand today, it's not surprising that AMD high end laptops are rare, because they're not very good when they are made. Zen 2 could absolutely change that, of course, if AMD's claims work out.

(AFAIK the memory difference was because the AMD chip used didn't support LPDDR4.)

baybal22• 7 years ago

I will be not so easy.

Big OEMs are bound by the supply chain. Small OEMs are dependent on solution providers.

Intel pays to solution providers to not to work with AMD in China. That's pretty much on the record, and not a secret to anybody in the industry.

And for big OEMs, the supply chain trumps everything. Idling assembly lines are extremely costly for them. One week idle can easily wipe out 1+ month of profits for them.

Before AMD is ready to offer the whole BOM kits with inventory in mainland China, and is ready to put money behind the availability guarantee, there will be no mass transition.

pjc502• 7 years ago

Intel pays to solution providers to not to work with AMD in China

Wasn't there literally a US antitrust case about this?

scumbert• 7 years ago

AMD is cooperating closely with Chinese firms and has them to thank in part for its resurgence in the desktop die space.

I wouldn't be surprised if these partnerships lead to more AMD PC's from small OEM's in the near future, perhaps only for the Chinese market.

Chinese home-grown fabrication is also at parity with AMD Bulldozer, and likely to accelerate with acquisitions of European chipmaker technology.

Notably meanwhile China has effectively blocked Qualcomm from making similar moves purportedly on antitrust grounds.

baybal22• 7 years ago

cooperating closely with Chinese firms

You can say Taiwanese ones. On mainland, AMD is almost unknown in OEM space

gertrunde• 7 years ago

Quite a few of these complaints are equally applicable to intel-based laptops as well, particularly regarding ports/quantity of ports, and thermals/cooling. A single thunderbolt / type-c port is nice and everything, but since there's only a single one, that means I can only really plug a dock/hub type device in it, or else I'm having to give up something else I need - that goes double if the vendor supplies it with a type-c power adapter as well.

jszymborski• 7 years ago

I just bought a Thinkpad T495 with a Ryzen Pro 3500U, and but for the display, I think it hits the points made in the blog. Cooling is good, it's far from a clunker and comes in an even slimmer model (T495s), and the battery life so far has been a revelation (knock on wood) compared to the Dell XPS 15 9650 it replaces.

Vrondi5• 7 years ago

How do you find the power for intense tasks compares to that XPS 15?

novaleaf• 7 years ago

not high-end, but I bought a couple of $300 AMD laptops (Acer Aspire 5) and they are great: 15" 1080p screens and faster than my "high-end" laptop from 5 years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RF1XD36

johndubchak2• 7 years ago

Excellent challenge to the big OEM's. I doubt many will give it a second thought.

What I'd love to see is some of the gifted and talented Makers we've seen in 2019 whip out their dremels and 3D printers and say, "THIS is what I want!"

Couldn't you take a chassis with a high-end screen and fabricate a mount that would accommodate securing an AMD board to the existing mounts of a previous Intel board?

I know I sound naive, but I haven't looked into it yet. It certainly seems possible from a basic engineering standpoint.

EDIT: my horrific grammar

big_chungus• 7 years ago

At least part of the problem is getting said board; laptop motherboards are often specially manufactured for each chassis, and there is no standard form factor like there is for desktops. It might be possible to buy one from a different model, but most boards aren't socketed for AMD chips so that's out, and it's not really feasible to just build your own motherboard.

johndubchak2• 7 years ago

Very true and. I understand your point. I was trying to suggest that you cou take an AMD motherboard and 3D print some sort of adapter that would adapt its form factor to fit the particular form factor of the existing chassis.

At least as a PoC.

psim1• 7 years ago

3:2 display? I know it harks back to CRT specifications, but 4:3 was just right for pretty much all computing purposes other than watching wide movies. Even better? 3:4, a 90-degree rotated tall screen.

Vrondi5• 7 years ago

Yes, please!

wilhil4• 7 years ago

Intel have a great partner program - I'm a small OEM (as one arm to the company), less than 100 units a month - but, still a nice number... Intel give me advanced warranties, presales support, partner centre, certain privileged information including roadmaps and samples... I couldn't imagine better.

AMD - I'm struggling to get them to return a call despite numerous chase messages for over 3 months now.

I want to sell AMD due to Ryzen demand but literally can't find anyone... even met an AMD rep at an industry event and he gave me his business card... non stop voicemail and just has never got back to me.

Again, I know I'm not huge - but, it's still over 1k units a year and I'm talking to a brick wall. When I started ~15 years ago and literally doing 1-2 a week, Intel were VERY supportive.

uyuioi• 7 years ago

This sums up a lot of older business models. Where a call to a whine and dine salesman is needed. Such a dead and dull way of doing business. In the age of on demand, make a website where OEMs can just sign up and get things done. Outside of a certain monthly sales figure. Then send in the suits.

wilhil4• 7 years ago

Which Intel had and how we got started ~15+ years ago and as our sales figures went up, we got contacted and met with people and gradually the relationship got better and better.

ksec• 7 years ago

Is 100 units a month sustainable as a business? Or is this a hobby?

I am surprised because in the age of Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo, how is it even possible to compete?

wilhil4• 7 years ago

We are a MSP and are mainly a Dell house at the moment - however, we have found a niche in media and are constantly building mid range servers and high end workstations.

On the high end, we can assemble a Xeon or i7/i9 machine, 64GB memory + huge NVME/SSD for roughly 50% of a branded machine...

We aren't in the celeron/i3 low end game...

mordant• 7 years ago

How/where can I learn more about your laptops?

wilhil4• 7 years ago

Sorry, We only do servers and high end workstations/desktops...

I personally couldn't find a ODM that was high quality... all seemed to be cheap/too plasticy and would break easily... Unless you are doing ~5k+ a month and can get better designs, the off the shelf prebuilt chassis were not great :(

Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

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