NSW Digital Driver Licence

https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/campaign/nsw-digital-driver-licence

by stockkid • 7 years ago

135 193 7 years ago

service.nsw.gov.au

mkj3• 7 years ago

The QR code updates - is that online or using a "secret" stored on the phone?

Sounds fun for the <18 kids.

Qqqwxs• 7 years ago

May I ask what this would make easier for <kids?

I can think of clubs scannings IDs, but scanners only store identification details for some period of time, until they're deleted, and not compared against a database. [0] A spoofable/transferable QR code could contain all the information normally scanned on a license plus information unique to each code refresh.

I'd love to hear what the other implications of this could be if I'm missing something.

[0] https://www.liquorandgaming.nsw.gov.au/operating-a-business/...

mkj3• 7 years ago

I was thinking if they're used offline at a bottle shop, it's a lot easier to seamlessly alter a date of birth or photo on a phone app than a physical license.

Also makes it easier to share an older sibling's ID.

stien• 7 years ago

Cool! Norway recently launched this as well https://www.vegvesen.no/en/driving-licences/driving-licence-...

lukeqsee2• 7 years ago

It’s illegal to access your Digital Driver Licence when driving, including when stationary, unless you’re asked to do so by a police officer. Penalties apply.

"We made this thing you only need while driving, especially when stationary and stopped by the police, but it's illegal to do so unless specifically requested."

I wonder how this will be applied in reality. Will individuals stopped have to wait for the police to ask before readying their documentation without being cited in addition to whatever they were stopped for?

skissane• 7 years ago

I wonder how this will be applied in reality. Will individuals stopped have to wait for the police to ask before readying their documentation without being cited in addition to whatever they were stopped for?

That's what they've been telling people, yes. Honestly, it seems rather over the top legalism.

I understand the point about the danger of using mobile devices while driving a moving vehicle. But, what exactly is the danger of using one when you are stationary, especially if you have been pulled over by a police officer? It is a law without a rational justification, and laws lacking rational justification are harmful.

lukeqsee2• 7 years ago

I understand the point about the danger of using mobile devices while driving a moving vehicle. But, what exact is the danger of using one when you are stationary, especially if you have been pulled over by a police officer? It is a law without a rational justification, and laws lacking rational justification are harmful.

This is the core of the issue, in my opinion.

alvah• 7 years ago

"Honestly, it seems rather over the top legalism." In Australia? I can hardly believe it /sarc

angry_octet11• 7 years ago

I would guess it's to eliminate a loophole of 'No Officer I wasn't checking Snapchat, I was just getting my digital licence out for you.'

AndrewDavis• 7 years ago

We made this thing you only need while driving

Drivers licences in Australia are the de-facto ID. Including proof of age to purchase cigarettes/alcohol, many bars scan IDs as you enter in case you cause damage or start a fight. To proving identity for a variety of things including (but not limited to) new phone plans, bank accounts, etc.

Most Aussies carry their drivers licence with them everywhere.

Regarding the stationary part. Though it varies state by state, my state (Victoria) considers it an offence to use your phone while stationary. If the vehicle is legally parked and engine off you're fine. This is to cover those using their phone while stuck in traffic.

mintplant• 7 years ago

Drivers licences in Australia are the de-facto ID. […] Most Aussies carry their drivers licence with them everywhere.

Same as in the USA.

angry_octet11• 7 years ago

Actually, you are in control of the vehicle if you're in the driver's seat with the key in the ignition, engine on or not.

jor-el• 7 years ago

I am curious to know how the Uber/Lyft drivers operate with such laws. Often they need to access maps, how does the law apply to such drivers?

namdnay• 7 years ago

I think "when driving, including when stationary" means in stationary traffic, or at a red light. Not when your car is parked and handbrake on

angry_octet11• 7 years ago

It does include when parked actually. Allows you to be arrested for drunk driving when you are stopped.

dsfyu404ed• 7 years ago

This is basically the same thing as getting a seat-belt ticket because you unbuckled to get your ID before the officer arrived at your window to see you do it. I expect citations would be handed out in a similar manner.

afandian4• 7 years ago

Can I use this without having a Google or Apple account? I guess the answer is no. It's crazy that we are allowing these duopolies to be the arbiters of so many critical functions.

Arguments like this are the strongest for forced regulation and split up IMHO.

roenxi• 7 years ago

And - just to underline this point - drivers license is the de-facto Australian ID card.

I can't think of an actual complaint against embedding US companies into what is in practice an important part of NSWs local governance; we might already do that credit and finance to some degree. But it just looks like another little step at creating a delicate system with single points of failure and unreasonably influential power-brokers.

afandian4• 7 years ago

All personal opinions:

It comes down to alignment of incentives. Google (for the sake of argument) has got into so many facets of peoples' lives that it's hard to tell what's what. If you're percieved to have contravened one of the TOCs, or your credit card fails or something, you could have your account suspended with no recourse. And Google have shown time and again that they have zero interest in universal due process, fairness or customer service. That's fine - it's their business model and their call to make.

But it is fundamentally out of step with the provision of essential services which should be afforded to all.

And then add to that the fact that when it goes wrong it disproportionally affects those more vulnerable. It starts to look a lot like disenfranchisement of minorities. What if you suddenly have no phone or email, and that's your only way of communicating with your support network? What if Google decides to pull the plug on your phone and you don't have money to buy a new one?

On the flip side, the government has a monopoly on welfare, violence, justice, etc. That's a good thing, and it's negotiated by democracy. However, using that monoploy to coerce people into using commercial duopolies is fundamentally anti-democratic.

aussieguy1234• 7 years ago

As of the moment, the digital version can't be used as ID

jimmcslim• 7 years ago

Part of the plan under the Five Eyes intelligence sharing agreement perhaps?

ra• 7 years ago

You're right. And I'm sure Service NSW had the best intentions, but were ignorant to the wider implication.

afandian4• 7 years ago

I have no doubt about good intentions of individuals. It's more about where the buck stops.

cylinder• 7 years ago

Not Service NSW's remit to fix the world of tech. Most use Apple or Android, so that's what they did. It's logical and makes perfect sense. Want change? Demand it elsewhere. I love this app and initiative and am a user myself.

BurningFrog• 7 years ago

From the article:

"It’s optional and doesn’t replace the plastic card"

reaperducer4• 7 years ago

Yet.

throwaheyy• 7 years ago

They're not exactly arbiters of critical functions, the government issuing the drivers licence is. This is just an additional convenience feature.

Rebelgecko2• 7 years ago

What do you need an account for? Does the APK not work if you sideload it?

dx034• 7 years ago

In that case, the government should publish an official version of the APK for people to use.

afandian4• 7 years ago

Completely guessing here. But these kinds of things often defer to Google Play services for part of their trust model.

hndamien2• 7 years ago

Is this a step towards more surveillance? I get that it doesn’t have to be, but surely it brings it closer, and easier to get there.

_kbh_• 7 years ago

I feel like I am pretty security conscious and thought the same thing at first. but realistically isn't all this just data the government already has on us?.

hndamien2• 7 years ago

Sort of, it depends if they ask for extra permissions at some point in the future and there is not alternative option. I saw an Android screenshot showing requests for an insane amount of access - it may have been faked though.

shakna4• 7 years ago

It might be a step towards the goals of the Face Verification Service project [0] of the Home Affairs office, which is a wide-reaching facial recognition service which seems to want to do things that aren't really possible with current technology.

Eventually these services can be integrated, or they might already be trialing integration silently.

The Document Verification Service checks whether the personal information on an identity document matches the original record. Importantly this includes verification of the date of birth on Australian passports, driver licences and birth certificates.
The Face Verification Service complements the Document Verification Service by preventing the use of stolen as well as fake identity information.

[0] [PDF] https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=903112ab-f5e9-4...

Benjamin_Dobell2• 7 years ago

Just happened to randomly stumble across a reverse engineering talk about this very app a couple of hours ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oux3tI2V0sY

lewi• 7 years ago

Great talk, just finished it!

oxplot3• 7 years ago

The crux of the issue is that the verification only tells you if the barcode is valid. However, there are no strong relationships between the barcode and the rest of the visual content (photo, numbers, dates, etc). Therefore, one can overlay malicious data around the barcode.

The fix would be to allow the verifier to independently retrieve the license details after scanning the barcode, instead of just seeing a valid/invalid message.

willsr2• 7 years ago

This is precisely what the South Australian Digital ID does.

movedx2• 7 years ago

In Queensland, our Police carry iPad. They can basically look you up and get your details on that iPad. I would imagine NSW Police would have something similar: scan the barcode, it verifies it's correct, and then they compare the face on the phone to the one they get on their iPad.

holografix• 7 years ago

Thanks for sharing that was indeed a very good talk!

bloak• 7 years ago

Non-rhetorical question: What's the point of this?

For many years it has been possible in many countries for a police officer to enter a vehicle's number plate and get details of the registered owner, including a photo, on the screen of their own device, one which they trust. If I'm driving a friend's car I could tell the police officer my name, the number plate of a vehicle that I am linked to or some other identifier and the officer could then look me up. Why should a driver need anything beyond a good enough memory to recite some kind of identifier?

Someone who can't remember their own name arguably shouldn't be driving.

I'm looking forward to the day when we won't need passports either. (I'm sure my great-grandchildren will find it much more convenient.)

Perhaps the point of this is that it lets you give someone else, not a police officer, temporary read-access to a subset of the data on the server. Is that it perhaps? That could be useful. For example, to a club bouncer I might choose to reveal my photo and the fact that I'm over 18 without giving away my date of birth and my address, which would be shown on my physical driving licence.

Potentially some interesting technical questions about how to stop people from using someone else's licence with the other person's collaboration: an older sibling's licence, for example.

thelittleone• 7 years ago

One benefit is ultimately there would be a few million less plastic cards produced. If it successful, perhaps others states / countries rollout something similar. That could be hundreds of millions fewer plastic cards produced.

Admittedly this is unlikely a significant factor in the state governments decision making. Yet it’s a benefit all the same.

vokep• 7 years ago

That sounds nice but is it really meaningful to cut such a small amount of waste?

Consider all the other various cards which also might be digitized. Gov ID doesn't seem like the place to start, seems like maybe the one that should always have a physical form even if everything else has become digital.

incompatible2• 7 years ago

One problem may be that not all roads have cell phone coverage, at least where I live, so a cop pulling you up may have no way to access an online database. It's also possible for the communications or back-end database to fail at any time.

rogerthat_au• 7 years ago

Drivers License as ID is used at a number of places in Australia including as age proof for venues serving alcohol, for phone connections and widely as a key KYC document. Carrying one less card is certainly welcome to remove the need for a wallet.

toomanybeersies3• 7 years ago

That's great until your phone gets broken or runs out of battery. Personally, I like to keep my phone, wallet, and keys as three separate things.

kube-system2• 7 years ago

Sounds like a creative way for law enforcement to get people to hand them their unlocked devices during a search.

imglorp2• 7 years ago

There's an opportunity for mobile OSs to support this usecase with a "guest" account: lock the phone to a single app so you can hand it to a less trusted person. Also useful for toddlers gaming.

The last Android version had a weak guest mode; the current one does not seem to.

Razengan2• 7 years ago

iOS has had "Guided Access" since almost forever.

Not quite a guest account, but you can use the Accessibility shortcut (from the Control Center or triple-clicking the sleep button) to quickly prevent app switching before handing a device to someone.

You can even use it to disable interaction with parts of the screen by drawing regions, or disable the hardware buttons, and set an autosleep timer.

What operating systems really need though, is a "fake OS" mode. It should display an alternative launchpad with some random apps with random photos, notes, messages etc. When someone tries to do something it should stall with poor network connectivity dialogs or other fake issues.

Maybe someone can make an app like that? :)

reaperducer4• 7 years ago

Just put it in the emergency medical information section that can already be accessed when the phone is locked.

(On an iPhone, anyway. I haven't tried To set this up on my Android.)

thesmok• 7 years ago

There's an opportunity for Apple to integrate it with Wallet, as they did for the Japanese public transport tickets. You can bring up cards from wallet without unlocking your iPhone.

toomanybeersies3• 7 years ago

I wouldn't give NSW police that much credit.

Kudos• 7 years ago

They may not have planned it, but I'd give them enough credit that this kind of abuse is almost a certainty.

WaylonKenning• 7 years ago

From the article "Avoid handling a customer’s phone. If you have difficulty viewing or scanning, ask the customer to adjust the phone to make checking easier. "

kube-system2• 7 years ago

I don’t think that suggestion is going to prevent anyone from doing otherwise if they find it advantageous.

baylisscg• 7 years ago

So I unlock the phone and hold it in front of an officer? At which point the office relieves me of my phone and takes it as evidence.

bonyt• 7 years ago

I wonder if it works with Apple Wallet or similar? Those cards can be accessed without unlocking the phone fully.

oxplot3• 7 years ago

The app itself recommends only showing the officer your screen, and not handing your phone over. As for Android, you can also pin the app before handing it over, if you so wish to. Pinning is a feature whereby the foreground app is the only app that can be interacted with until the next time you unlock the phone. All notifications are also hidden.

undersuit5• 7 years ago

If you can, enable Screen Pinning in Android. I use it all the time for airlines that give me the option to use an app to present my boarding pass... to the TSA.

Rebelgecko2• 7 years ago

You can just hold your phone up to the QR code scanner yourself. You don't need to hand them your phone.

shpx• 7 years ago

A good way to make people run proprietary software they control.

dgellow2• 7 years ago

Looking at the conditions, this one is a bit odd:

It’s illegal to access your digital driver licence when driving, including when stationary, unless you’re asked to do so by a police officer. Penalties apply.

So, does that mean that an officer can ask to see the license _while driving_? That's such a weird scenario!

And the part "including when stationary", does that mean that you're allow to check your digital license if you're in your care, alone, parked somewhere, without any police officer around?

Source: https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/campaign/nsw-digital-driver-l...

maxden2• 7 years ago

You can only touch your phone if its secured and its for navigation so they are avoiding the problem when people are pulled over for using their mobile phone and saying they were getting their license ready etc. They have created a problem where people know not to touch their phone, but if you get pulled over and get your license ready you are breaking the no touch rule.

wisty• 7 years ago

"While driving" could mean you've stopped the car, but you haven't put it in park, applied the handbreak, and switched off the engine. The police are a bit vague at what constitutes "driving" because they want to fine people who check Facebook at traffic lights.

An officer can ask for your license if they flag you over and you haven't totally stopped the car (thus you are legally "driving"), as long as you're being safe they just want to check for drunk drivers as quickly as possible. "License, how many drinks have you had tonight, count to 5, have a good night". Unlike America they don't need suspicion, they just flag over everyone they can on a Friday night. On the other hand an officer can fine you if you start playing on Facebook while the car is stopped but you're still legally "driving".

toomanybeersies3• 7 years ago

It's illegal to use your phone while in command of a motor vehicle in NSW, regardless of whether you're moving or stationary. If you're parked you're fine, but if you're stopped at the lights, for instance, it's illegal.

megablast2• 7 years ago

Are you confused by phone use when driving?

dgellow2• 7 years ago

What part of my comment are you answering to? I didn’t express confusion.

theqult• 7 years ago

For a moment a read NSFW Driver Licence, it would be beautiful <3

anticensor• 7 years ago

NSW stands for the New South Wales, an autonomous state in Australia.

jwilliams• 7 years ago

There was talk the permissions used were a bit worrying: https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2019/10/nsws-digital-driver-li...

On Google Play it included access to Calendar, Camera, Photos, Location, Storage...

shakna4• 7 years ago

And for some strange reason, the ability to pair with Bluetooth devices. Which I have no idea why it exists, I can't find a single service that the app has access to which would require that feature.

winter_blue• 7 years ago

Probably to use Bluetooth beacons.

angry_octet11• 7 years ago

To communicate with Bluetooth readers instead of using QR code scanning.

willsr2• 7 years ago

This probably has something to do with the ISO 18013-5 standard.

https://medium.com/@dkelts.id/mobile-driver-licenses-mdl-how...

climb_stealth• 7 years ago

The photo permission is to verify someone else's digital ID by capturing their QR code.

Maxious• 7 years ago

Google Play includes permissions that have been taken out in the latest version of an app https://twitter.com/ServiceNSW/status/1189390044273856513

IIRC a former developer explained (on reddit?) they explored other functionality like bluetooth LE verification rather than QR code

ape4• 7 years ago

Seems pretty easy to fake. Make an app that shows a photo and QA code.

optevo• 7 years ago

The code changes continually. Also the background moves when you tilt the phone.

Benjamin_Dobell2• 7 years ago

It's trivial to hack Android apps. Please see the reverse engineering talk link I posted a few comments up that demonstrates this very app being hacked.

EDIT: Probably shouldn't single out Android. iOS apps can also be modified and resigned with a developer certificate.

shakna4• 7 years ago

In this [0] PyCon talk the app is reverse-engineered, and a version that produces a fake QR code that gets verified successfully is created.

It would seem the current approach is fundamentally broken.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oux3tI2V0sY

Nextgrid3• 7 years ago

One word: signatures.

All QR codes or whatever the phone is displaying or transmitting should be signed by a trusted authority. The checking device can verify whether it’s been signed. You can’t generate a valid signature unless you have access to the private key that’s supposed to be signing them.

excalibur• 7 years ago

From the rules linked here:

https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobileph...

Restricted licences holders including learner, P1 and P2 drivers and riders are not permitted to use their phone at all while driving or riding. This includes use of hands-free and Bluetooth functions.

Am I misunderstanding this? Are they saying that teenagers with a learner's permit are prohibited from using their phones while riding in the passenger seat?

ska• 7 years ago

I think that refers to bicycle (and/or motorcycle?) riding - not being a passenger.

TheCalicoCat• 7 years ago

It's referring to motorbike riders.

spelunker• 7 years ago

Colorado launched one recently as well, apparently the first US state to do it: https://mycolorado.state.co.us/

As a CO resident I haven't really found a use for it yet. There's even a disclaimer to take your physical ID with you wherever you go.

reaperducer4• 7 years ago

My state has digital insurance and registration cards. I guess this is the next logical step.

But I do worry about when people get used to using these digital identification and then get pulled over after their phone battery dies or when their phone breaks on vacation or something.

A simple traffic stop with a warning suddenly becomes a day in jail while the police "verify"a person's identity.

walshemj• 7 years ago

There was a case in the UK recently where some one got a £500 fine on the train because their phone died and they could not show their electronic ticket.

I was only after the press got involved that it was over turned.

dualboot• 7 years ago

Why on earth would you install an app provided by a nation/state?!

undersuit5• 7 years ago

Because it's obviously more secure than letting someone access a webpage with the same functionality. /s

angry_octet11• 7 years ago

I can see digital imitations coming in 3,2,1... Starting by reversing and modifying the official app. The QR might not verify (assuming network connectivity), or it might be someone else, but will it be checked? Doubtful, because it only returns a name, not a photo.

It is disappointing this is an online-only system. There is a continuation of a number of privacy violating practices, such as giving your DOB and driver's licence number to bars/clubs/venue security (often run by criminals, esp OLMCs). It should only show 18+ and a photo.

NSW Govt will now know exactly who goes to which venue, in real time. Insane surveillance of the citizenry.

Can't wait to see what data is in the real QR codes. Almost sounds like a TOTP code and a user/device serial number. Malware that rips these TOTP codes will be made and available to criminals in short order.

shakna4• 7 years ago

Starting by reversing and modifying the official app. The QR might not verify (assuming network connectivity), or it might be someone else, but will it be checked?

Done, in August. [0] And the QR Code validates.

Can't wait to see what data is in the real QR codes.

According to the talk, it's a timestamp, and id and what seems like a session-cookie-ish encrypted blob.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oux3tI2V0sY

angry_octet11• 7 years ago

Does the app encrypt the blob? Presumably, because otherwise why have a serial.

Wonder if they can fall victim to validate after decrypt attacks.

hnick3• 7 years ago

I'm not sure it is online-only? They do say to carry your card as a backup but also say it works offline after initial setup:

"The NSW Digital Driver Licence is available offline as long as you are logged into the Service NSW app"

https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/campaign/nsw-digital-driver-l...

angry_octet11• 7 years ago

I took that to mean that your licence app will work offline, but not that it will validate offline.

shirro4• 7 years ago

I have had one of these for years in South Australia (app store release data may 2017). Our car rego is all digital as well which used to cause confusion interstate as we don't have rego stickers. I don't adopt a lot of digital technology like social media because I think it is of dubious value with potential risks but nfc payments and a digital licence lets me travel with just my phone which suits me really well. I hate carrying a wallet.

One potential issue with having this on your phone is that you are unlocking your phone and handing it to the police which could be a problem for some people. Though people can still carry a card.

jlebar• 7 years ago

One potential issue with having this on your phone is that you are unlocking your phone and handing it to the police

FWIW Android has a (somewhat hidden) "pin app" function that prevents users from switching to a different app without entering the lock code.

shirro4• 7 years ago

Thanks. Just turned it on and learned how to use it. A few too many steps to the UI. I think I would prefer if an app like this was pinned from the moment it was opened.

austhrow7432• 7 years ago

Same with iphone. Accessibility settings -> Guided access. Can turn on a setting so that when you triple click the home button it locks use to that app until you unlock.

PinkMilkshake• 7 years ago

In NSW you are not required to hand it over to police.

From the site: "You don’t need to hand over your device to the licence checker. If a licence checker is struggling to view your digital driver licence, adjust the tilt of your device or turn up your brightness settings. "

shirro4• 7 years ago

Isn't this the same state where they have been strip searching 12 year old girls without a parent or guardian? Most police I have encountered are great but good to know how to protect your phone incase you encounter one of the rare idiots.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/06/revea...

chris_wot2• 7 years ago

The police may not touch the phone.

sabrehagen• 7 years ago

Can you reference the legal documents regarding this?

tacticus• 7 years ago

And when you tell them no what's the chance they listen and don't suddenly volunteer you for a search.

maxden2• 7 years ago

Although as others have posted, apparently the police are not allowed to touch the phone, but people are used to handing over the current plastic license so would likely hand over their phone unless instructed otherwise.

It was news to me that you can lock android and iOS to a certain app so that would be a good thing to do if your license is requested.

bamboozled• 7 years ago

The worst thing about this system is that if your battery dies, well you can’t prove your identity.

I guess cops carry chargers now ?

concerned_user• 7 years ago

In europe we have phone app for public transport, in my city, if your phone is out of charge they will help you charge it so you can show ticket to them.

isostatic• 7 years ago

Do you have to show your license in NSW?

In the UK we have to give our name and address, then turn up to a police station within 7 days with our license.

dalore• 7 years ago

Your car can provide energy.

icanhackit• 7 years ago

One potential issue with having this on your phone is that you are unlocking your phone and handing it to the police which could be a problem for some people. Though people can still carry a card.

NSW resident. If I was driving I'd carry my physical license which I'd hand to police. If I was heading out by foot to a pub, bar, bottle shop or tobacconist I'd use my phone because that's how I pay for things. I'm not young looking but if I were, at least the phone would save me carrying a wallet.

Opal, NSW's public transport payment system, works directly with contactless payment i.e. credit cards, debit cards, phones (all phones - hi Myki!), smart watches and, unsurprisingly, dedicated Opal cards. Making licenses app-based opens up the option to leave home without anything but your phone.

technion• 7 years ago

I've tried this out so I can report the experience. First, I can confirm the only permission requested is camera, and that's only when I first try to use the "scan a license" function. It seems like a Google Play bug that the play store allegedly shows legacy information if you click "permissions"[0] on the website, as these aren't reflected in the actual store.

Secondly, being able to press a button and get shown my current demerits is extremely useful. Last time I wanted to check this I spent a good two hours on hold on the phone.

My license expires in two weeks and this is the first I found out about it. Undoubtedly due to some bungle in the traditional system.

I can see why people are concerned, and it's not going to be accepted in clubs for a while as the scanners physically won't fit a phone.

(Having deployed those scanners a few years back, I'm frankly more concerned about their privacy situation than this app).

[0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=au.gov.nsw.ser...

shirro4• 7 years ago

Yes, I like being able to see my licence expiry, demerit and rego expiry all on one place.

Our rego is all digital in SA and we don't have rego stickers. I have been getting text reminders for years but sometimes you just want to check when things expire without logging into a website and navigating through lots of layers.

I expect NSW is the same but our app also takes boat licences, heavy vehicle licences, occupational licences as well as vehicle reg. I get that it isn't for everyone but it is a convenience.

For comparison: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=au.gov.sa.my

hyperrail• 7 years ago

Here in the States, Delaware and other states have also been trying mobile driver's licenses. Alarmingly to me, it seems police officers might eventually be able to remotely access the driver's license information of a person with a mobile license when the officer is physically nearby the phone, though perhaps that is less bad than having to hand over and unlock the phone outright.

You can learn more about the Delaware experiment from the same places I did:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FYUU4wP9s8

- https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/03/14/mo...

sk0g2• 7 years ago

Wonder if this can be used as ID to get into clubs, etc? The page doesn't seem to mention it, but I doubt it would be.

evolve2k• 7 years ago

YES it can be. It’s there in the 3rd paragraph.

“The NSW Digital Driver Licence is accepted by most pubs and clubs, and NSW Police.”

sk0g2• 7 years ago

Missed that completely, thank you! Now for a certain backwards northern state to implement this so I don't have to take my wallet into gigs and nights out at all...

contingencies• 7 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_Australia

karthickgururaj• 7 years ago

India has something similar for driving licenses and many other documents: https://digilocker.gov.in/

vajrapani666• 7 years ago

Some say that New Orleans is so far behind, that it's ahead. Definitely true. The information systems in SF all feel like they were built in 2010. I've had a digital ID (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/la-wallet/id1386930269) for over a year now and it's so much more convenient when I lose my actual ID -- about 4x/year. The LA wallet has a verification system that anyone can use to verify anyone else's ID. I was in SF for blockchain week last week and I misplaced by physical ID on the way to the airport. I wanted to see a friend of mine perform at a bar in Berkeley and they wanted a physical ID. I ended up eating tasty Nepalese food next door and met up with my friends after the show because there's no digital ID in California. Once I got back to New Orleans, no-one ever batted an eye when I showed them my digital ID. I'm hoping the next step is issuing a public/private key along with the ID. It would come in handy for so many blockchainy/dapp possibilities.

I might be less ecstatic if I had a car and got pulled over and asked to show my ID. I wouldn't be comfortable handing my unlocked phone over to the state. I trust the internal walls of the mobile walled gardens more than I trust a cop.

rahimnathwani• 7 years ago

"I'm hoping the next step is issuing a public/private key along with the ID."

If I need a key pair, I'd prefer to generate it myself. Otherwise, the private key isn't really private.

smcl• 7 years ago

You lose your ID 4x per year?! I lost my (British) passport once and later that same year it was in a bag that was stolen - I was warned that I wouldn't be issued with another one if it happened again. I am now super paranoid when I have to carry it, in fact now that I type this I realise I'm extra edgy because I'm about to leave for a trip in a few minutes with my passport :-O

jdsully• 7 years ago

Most countries will forgive two lost passports within a 10 year period. After that they may refuse or give you limited duration documents. This is of course at the discretion of the country issuing the documents - but if they are overly generous it will cause problems with other countries expected to accept the documents.

The main concern is they don't want a bunch of unaccounted for passports lying around. It dramatically increases the risk of fraud.

bradstewart• 7 years ago

I was visiting my parents in New Orleans a few weeks ago when my mom showed me the LA Wallet app and said "we have this cool new ID app now. I'm sure other states must have had it for ages, but we finally got it". Nope, not at all.

It's cool to see my hometown progressing on at least one front.

jmull3n• 7 years ago

One problem I have personally encountered is I am unable to obtain a digital form of identification while my license is suspended for a speeding offence. This is more annoying than not being able to drive as I still have to carry a wallet for the 1 remaining card I can't get on my iPhone.

megablast2• 7 years ago

I have no problem with someone suspended for speeding having an extra piece of annoyance.

willbw• 7 years ago

Really? I mean they already are suspended for driving, that is the punishment. This feels petty to me.

taksintikk• 7 years ago

The NSW Digital Driver Licence is accepted by most pubs and clubs

How to get user acceptance 101

throwaway37143• 7 years ago

Accepting digital licences as identification in nightclubs in QLD is entirely optional. Seems counterproductive to have a half valid form of ID.

throwaway37143• 7 years ago

I should add that clubs here scan your ID which contains your full name and DOB, and can be used as half the proof required to open a bank account online.

chrisseaton2• 7 years ago

Isn’t accepting any ID in a nightclub already optional and at the discretion of the licensee? They can always turn people away as long as it’s not based on a protected category can’t they? How’s it any different to before?

throwaway37143• 7 years ago

I get that, I was sober on a Wednesday at 4pm and the casino wouldn’t let me in.

gwbas1c• 7 years ago

I originally read this as "NSFW Drivers License" and thought it was going to be a funny link.

subsaharancoder• 7 years ago

Am I the only one who read the title in HN and saw "NSFW Digital Driver Licence"?

raver1975• 7 years ago

I imagine it's really trivial to download the Android APK, decompile it into it's source code, modify the code, and then push the modified app back on to the phone. You can be anyone you want to be. This idea does fall apart after the officer looks up the license number on his device. Do you think this would work at taverns?

bobthepanda• 7 years ago

In the US I’ve been to plenty of bars and grocery stores with ID scanners. I’d imagine this would be no different.

NSW Digital Driver Licence

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