Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/20/amazon-is-shipping-expired-baby-formula-and-other-out-of-date-foods.html

by rahuldottech • 7 years ago

464 213 7 years ago

donatj4• 7 years ago

I’ve ended up with expired food from physical stores many times in my life. It’s not really a big deal, you just return it or eat it depending on the product.

Same here. It happens. It’s harmless.

If it’s a big deal to you, go to the store and pick things out yourself.

goda90• 7 years ago

You can look at what you're buying from the store before you buy it.

donatj4• 7 years ago

Exactly, so if it’s a big deal to you go to the store? It’s never been a big deal to me.

grenoire• 7 years ago

At a physical store you can check in advance if the expiration date has passed or not. You don't get the option to confirm it when you order online, however.

mrweasel• 7 years ago

That's honestly the reason for me not buying groceries online, well that and shipping cost. Given the cost of shipping, I'd do one order a week at the most, but the I risk getting 5L of milk which expires within three days. If I only order once a week, then that is the minimum expiry date I'll accept on perishable food items.

I don't blame the companies for wanting to ship the items that are about to expire, but please apply some common sense. If the amount is more than an average family could reasonable consume within a week, then may mix the items in with other with later expiration date.

rambojazz2• 7 years ago

That should not happen at all.

donatj4• 7 years ago

Why? Expired food is generally perfectly safe. The dates are quality indicators, not safety indicators.

It’s just being wasteful.

https://www.consumerreports.org/food-safety/how-to-tell-whet...

PeterisP3• 7 years ago

It happens, but it's a punishable violation - the appropriate response is not "just return it or eat it" but an audit of the whole store and fines for having expired produce on their shelves, which is not acceptable.

A physical store that does not have a reasonable process to ensure that expired goods are not available for sale is not qualified to operate safely, if it does it repeatedly, then it should be shut down - it's like a restaurant with rats running around.

donatj4• 7 years ago

In the United States at least expiration dates have no relation to food safety.

Also the majority of expirations other than “Use by” are non binding

https://consumerist.com/2008/06/18/is-it-legal-to-sell-expir...

Merrill6• 7 years ago

On the left panel under "Seller" there is a Amazon.com check box you can use to eliminate third party sellers from the product search. I tend to select sold by Amazon unless the seller is the actual manufacturer of the product, e.g. a candy company selling direct through Amazon.

_nalply• 7 years ago

And does this really help or are news that Amazon doesn't separate third party sellers from their own stocks just FUD?

Dobbs• 7 years ago

As far as I know this doesn't actually work, because Amazon will comingle goods. That is to say you buy good from A. The warehouse closest to you has the same "item" but it is from B. So they ship you B's item, but mark it from A's inventory and credit A the money.

So even if you order from known good retailers, or Amazon themselves if party B puts bad products into the warehouse you can end up with bad or fake products.

jthistle2• 7 years ago

Sellers have the option about whether their inventory can be commingled. Also, when there is high fraud potential or a large number of complaints Amazon doesn't allow commingling stock.

I operate a supply chain company who works for Amazon 3rd party sellers.

derekp7• 7 years ago

That doesn't work, because Amazon comingles stock. You could still get bad product if the packaging looks the same between Amazon's item and a third party seller's item

PeterisP3• 7 years ago

Not verifying expiry dates seems to be something that's not affected by comingling. What does Amazon do to ensure that their expired stock does not get shipped? Why does the same process not work for third-party goods?

dman2• 7 years ago

That does not mean anything because of commingling of inventory.

Merrill6• 7 years ago

It reduces the risk, because more of the inventory will be genuine, returns are simpler, and you have "one throat to choke" if something is bad.

You can reduce risk further by buying Amazon essentials or Amazon's own brands, such as Whole Foods brands.

arkitaip• 7 years ago

It's astonishing that even multi-billion brands are being tarnished due to Amazon's inadequate and sometimes even dangerous supply chain practices.

ilamont4• 7 years ago

A data analytics firm that specializes in the Amazon Marketplace recently analyzed the site’s 100 best-selling food products for CNBC and found that at least 40% of sellers had more than five customer complaints about expired goods.

In other words, Amazon knows about the sellers who ship expired goods yet lets them continue to operate. It has the data and it still fails to take one of the easiest steps to address the problem, removing bad actors from the marketplace (which would also make many other sellers clean up their acts).

I've had a similar issue with buying books advertised as "new" and they are clearly used ... including one book that had a "USED" sticker on it. I complained about the seller, and nothing happened. As of the last time I checked this seller was still in business on Amazon, with 22% negative ratings in the last 30 days.

The message to third-party sellers is clear:

Win the buy box however you can. We won’t police your listings. We won’t punish you if you lie about the condition of the goods. Even if many of Amazon’s customers are complaining about you, you can still stay in business on Amazon.

amitport2• 7 years ago

"more than five customer complaints"

Five out of _?

We should care about the proportion, and should consider some time decay (maybe the issues were a decade ago).

michaelt5• 7 years ago

I work for a company that (among other things) sells food.

The acceptable number of customers to send expired food is zero percent.

It's not a complex or unusual requirement to make sure your goods are in-date - any properly designed warehouse management system will take care of this. This is absolutely table stakes if you're going to deliver food.

Unopened baby formula has a shelf life of 6 months+ when properly stored, so they've got a gigantic margin of error here. It'd be pretty poor customer service to ship baby formula that only had 2 months of its 6 month shelf life remaining. There's really no excuse for shipping expired baby formula.

ilamont4• 7 years ago

You are correct. I am assuming most marketplace sellers are low-volume sellers, therefore 5 negative seller reviews/ratings is enough to justify a red flag. If it's a high-volume seller with many hundreds or thousands of reviews in a 1-month period, then it's not as big of a concern.

For the example I cited earlier of a 22% negative rating in the previous 30 days, that represented dozens of negative reviews.

mcgoo• 7 years ago

If you create a listing that competes with someone else’s high volume product you will get fake reviews claiming the product is expired. Multiple times this has happened on a brand new listing with no sales, before the product even arrives at Amazon. Expired is one of the go-to false complaints.

In my experience Amazon reliably push expired product back to the seller, at least using the dates that were declared by the seller. This does not stop a seller from claiming what they like, I suppose.

Jean-Philipe• 7 years ago

Funny thing, my auntie once got banned for life from Amazon. She used to sell used books on Amazon (as "used", obviously) until she got one single complaint from a client. Even though the complaint was without basis, she offered him full refund while letting him keep the book. Still, she got banned by Amazon. They even banned the account of her husband, with no explanation and no possibility for recourse. She cannot ever sell anything ever again on Amazon, and she doesn't even know why.

ilamont4• 7 years ago

I hear stories like that, and then I see my own experience with serial cheaters allowed to keep selling and racking up negative ratings. I am wondering if Amazon gave up enforcement, or just changed its practices/loosened the rules.

papln3• 7 years ago

How do you know that story is true? Amazon is full of sellers with many complaints published on the site.

FireBeyond3• 7 years ago

Right. I got very sick once, and was 2 days late shipping an item (a camera lens). That one complaint was enough to get me banned forever. I had offered in my response to say I was willing to be "required to use FBA" for all sales from the future forward, and they weren't interested. There was no complaint about the product, just that it arrived 2 days late (and I -had- messaged the buyer before that to advise).

rwmurrayVT2• 7 years ago

Book selling is an insane market on Amazon. I ran a used bookstore on Amazon with 380 positive reviews and 1 negative review over the last 12 months. The sellers are cut-throat. They're all trying to sell something they got from a thrift store for $0.50 on Amazon to make $3. Amazon intentionally allows "acceptable" books to take the buy box over "very good" just based on price and seller feedback. If you end up selling the acceptable book then you get bad feedback for having a terrible quality book. The whole thing is a damn mess. Many sellers will list as "new" either intentionally or unintentionally. I'd be lying if I didn't say I sold several books I found in pristine condition or even shrink-wrapped as "new". The difference between $15 and $9 for an FBA book sale is the difference between $1.75 and $8. Book selling on Amazon is insane.

zaroth2• 7 years ago

As a buyer sometimes the deals are absurdly good. For example got my daughter a hardcover Harry Potter Cursed Child for $3 Like New, and that included next day delivery. Shows up as described, and I just saved $15.

I’m slightly ashamed to admit I was actually at BN at the time where they were selling it for $30. But I did spend $100 during that trip, on books that were comparably priced to Amazon.

I assume Cursed Child is an outlier because I’d guess a huge number of people are buying it expecting it to be something it’s not, and then likely returning or offloading the book in disappointment.

Obviously no one made money on the transaction so I assume it was a buggy algorithm, but I’m not complaining!

not_a_cop753• 7 years ago

This is why you should generally:

1) Review all negative ratings prior to a purchase

2) Refuse to buy anything that's less then 4/5 stars.

dpark5• 7 years ago

This doesn’t help if a single bad actor is co-mingling with multiple good sellers.

ryan-c• 7 years ago

They commingle reviews for multiple "related" products too.

dpark5• 7 years ago

In other words, Amazon knows about the sellers who ship expired goods yet lets them continue to operate. It has the data and it still fails to take one of the easiest steps to address the problem, removing bad actors from the marketplace

I have anecdata contrary to this. We used to buy gluten free bread from Amazon because of my son’s gluten allergy. It was a pain to buy locally so we would buy 4 loaves at a time from Amazon. We started getting expired loaves from some seller. It happened multiple times, to about 50% of the orders. This bread has a long shelf life so these loaves were months old.

We got reimbursed multiple times through the automated return system but it continued. Finally my wife called to complain. They apologized, gave us some credit, and said they look into it. The next time we got expired bread again. She called again and they promised they’d remove the seller. Indeed they did something this time. The bread was unavailable for about a month and when it came back we never had another expired loaf delivered.

I think Amazon does listen. What they don’t seem to do is listen to people who complain in reviews. Reach out to Amazon directly if you want to complain about a real issue with a seller.

lotsofpulp5• 7 years ago

Sounds to me like amazon takes a 15% or 20% cut of the transaction, and the customer gets to do all the work of vetting sellers?

I’d rather pay more and support a reputable manufacturer or vendor directly.

serial_dev• 7 years ago

Your anecdote is a good example that they don't listen. How many times did you complain before they took action? It looks like you had to complain multiple times which most people will not do (they complain once and try to not order from that seller).

bryanrasmussen2• 7 years ago

After you stopped having problems with the bread did you ever try to log in with another account and buy it with another credit card and send it to another address - I just wonder if the seller retooled and put in an array of accounts that must not be screwed over because they complain too hard. I guess I'm overly paranoid.

Keverw• 7 years ago

In other words, Amazon knows about the sellers who ship expired goods yet lets them continue to operate. It has the data and it still fails to take one of the easiest steps to address the problem

Yeah, I wonder if companies are so big complaints are just noise to them that isn't even really looked at. I feel like I'm just a number that doesn't matter to any of these companies. Then also feel like a lot of the reps at companies are powerless, given limited training, tools and relies a lot on scripts.

Some of these companies are huge, and some things are free like say Gmail. So I feel with all these internet companies, support is a challenge it seems for both the company and the customer sadly. Even the local cable company has a help link but it's just a knowledge base, they hide their phone number on another page now. I do like the approach of letting people try to solve issues on their own, but being able to talk to someone would be nice.

About 2 years ago, I found a app on the iPhone App Store that would popup the in-app purchase by itself randomly, so when you go to exit the app using the home button Touch ID would then buy it for you using your fingerprint. I did get a refund though, less than $4 purchase but pretty scary that's possible. On newer iPhones with FaceID and the side button maybe it's less likely to happen since you pull down to go home instead of pushing a physical button.

I figured the app would of been removed, but just checked it and seen a review from this year with the same problem...

Then some big companies, everything is different departments walled off from each other, which unsure if they really communicate with each other. Just seems like support is pretty poor in general in tech, but other industries too like calling up your health insurance company due to a billing mistake. The other thing that super annoys me too, is when you get transfered from agent to agent it's like you have to start over again with companies. Not sure why they can't transfer a note and your account info already pulled up to the next agent. Have to repeat yourself over and over, was helping a relative set up a new phone and the transfer didn't seemed to go through, and got transferred like 6 times same and same. Gave up, and decided to just buy a new phone, transfer worked and then return the other phone. You just get the runaround, and feel powerless.

Someone I follow who does the full time RV life was having trouble with his insurance company after changing his domicile to South Dakota, and after playing the phone game he just got sick of them and switched companies. Both companies had full time policies, but seemed like someone didn't know what they were doing. So due to poor customer support, they lost a loyal customer they had since he was a teenager driving, making payments on time, good record, etc. I guess some things are easier to switch though, just deciding to shop somewhere else or pay your money to another company and get a new proof of insurance card. While say switching phone or computer operating systems might be more difficult, especially if you like or rely on apps not available on the other platform.

So something I think about, and would worry me about having my own startup, as I feel like support is key from the training, processes to the people. As the people they interact with is representing the company. Wouldn't surprise me if you get big enough, there's consultants too but it's a fear of getting this area wrong. Ideally things should work in the first place though. Plus I think doing things in house, who knows your products might be better than outsourcing. One call could be for company A, next call could be company B, etc so they are just jumping around and might not even be familiar with products.

rietta2• 7 years ago

This happened to us. My wife orders a lot of dog treats and human snacks on subscribe and save. They sent a package of nearly expired nut snack bars. Wife contacted customer service and they just sent another of the same. My wife is meticulous about checking sale by and it is a fight to keep her from throwing out recently expired foods. But I hadn't known a store to ship an expired product before this.

lightedman• 7 years ago

Sale By dates are not the same as Use By dates are not the same as Expired By dates. This link should help clear up a lot for you and your wife, and save you money/prevent waste in the long run.

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/fsis-content/inter...

jakebellacera• 7 years ago

We had very expired dog food shipped to us from Amazon, and luckily Amazon was able to give us an instant refund, but that was enough to prevent us from buying foods and other perishables from them.

gwittel• 7 years ago

Happened to us several times with our subscribe and save for baby food. Expired or near expired items. In the end we just don’t buy baby food from them.

We’re shifting more and more spend away from Amazon due to this, and counterfeits due to commingling.

dspillett5• 7 years ago

A key problem with the complaints is that customer reviews don't† take into account the effect of commingling. The expired food might have come from a different seller initially, but you were sent it because of Amazon's supply line optimisations.

Amazon will know but when you write your review or read someone else's, you won't.

Same problem as counterfeit goods and commingling though iirc there are more control in place on perishables so this aspect of the problem rears its head less often.

[†] they can't, we as customers don't have access to the information to know the route items took to get to us

criddell2• 7 years ago

I think the complaints are perfectly valid. If you sell something on Amazon I believe you can choose to not have your product commingled [1]. If you don't do this, then you are accepting the risk that comes with commingling.

[1] https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/how-to-prevent-com...

froindt2• 7 years ago

Is there additional cost to not comingle? I can't find it mentioned after some searches.

I wonder, at what point would it be economical to pay the additional costs to not comingle product?

Would adding "For customer assurance, we do not comingle our product with other products sold on Amazon" yield additional purchases? At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if nobody looks at your posting because it's 3-20% more exoensive than the knockoffs.

bencollier49• 7 years ago

Are Amazon comingling foods?

Wouldn't that make them responsible for the expiry dates? And a whole lot of other things to boot?

ilamont4• 7 years ago

Exactly.

Further, if I were an FBA seller, I would probably avoid shipping in expired goods in case they are checked. There's also the issue of goods passing expiry if they are warehoused too long.

I suspect many of the expired food sellers are actually FBM, just like the used book sellers. Avoids a lot of potential headaches associated with FBA.

hinkley2• 7 years ago

Is it possible that this is just a stupid, simple sorting bug in the warehouse software?

As a battle scarred developer, I'm primed to think about issues like some algorithm decided LIFA was faster than FIFO, and it's worth my time to investigate whether my coworker didn't differentiate between perishable and non-perishable because they were so pleased with their shortest route algorithm that they couldn't be bothered by trivialities like reality and biology. They'll probably even blame it on their boss instead of on avoiding confrontation.

ikeboy5• 7 years ago

No, anything with an expiration date is ineligible for commingling.

hop2• 7 years ago

Inventory isn’t commingled between sellers for the same SKU.

hop2• 7 years ago

I don’t know why I’m being downvoted - Amazon FBA does not commingle seller inventory. The products sold by a seller are only the ones they shipped to FBA. If you request your inventory back, you will only get the ones back you sell. So if a seller sends in a bunch of counterfeit items for a listing, those are physically separated and don’t get mixed with the good inventory that is there.

There are multiple sellers for the same product and they could definitely have bad/old inventory - and they will win the buy box with the lowest price - but it’s still not commingled.

dspillett5• 7 years ago

Apparently it is, but not always: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200141480

brudgers5• 7 years ago

Commingling isn't a problem with the complaints. Commingling reflects a deliberate profit motivated decision at the highest level of Amazon's management. Amazon executives have evaluated the health risks of commingling food. The safety risks of commingling electronics. They've calculated it more profitable to lawyer up when bad things happen.

ebg132• 7 years ago

Commingling isn't a problem with the complaints.

I think they mean that commingling necessarily eliminates the viability of merchant malfeasance analysis in reading reviews, not that the complainers did anything wrong. Just that you can't trust the products from even the most trustworthy shop because someone _else_ might be trying to cheat the marketplace. The review system applies to products, but mostly it applies to individual product _specimens_. And if you don't know whether bad specimens came disproportionately from a particular merchant, then the real value of reviews has been diminished.

ikeboy5• 7 years ago

There's no commingling for food or any other products with expiration dates.

adrianmonk4• 7 years ago

Commingling is bad, but does commingling mean they can't trace it back to which seller sent it to them for FBA?

If they can, they can penalize that seller, not the other seller (who won the sale).

I'm assuming Amazon has a unique id for every individual item in their warehouses. I'm not sure this is the case, but it seems likely given how their warehouses are organized and the location of stuff is very mixed up and only known to computers. (It would also be sufficient if they have unique ids for lots. If one seller sends 10 identical perishable items and Amazon groups those on a shelf together, they can still trace it back to the right seller.)

fencepost• 7 years ago

I've seen conflicting reports on whether they can but that's less important than (the appearance?) that they don't.

"This terrible thing has happened in an area you're responsible for and you failed to catch/address it. Is this because you didn't have the required resources, because you're incompetent, or because you're corrupt? If it was resources, what do you need and why didn't you have it?"

dspillett5• 7 years ago

If they can, they can penalize that seller, not the other seller (who won the sale).

That is fine for complaints raised directly through the specific complaint channel(s).

It doesn't help with complaints recorded as (or as part of) reviews, which might not have a corresponding official complaint. If I see mention of expiry dates and similar issues in reviews I don't have any assurance that this refers to the supply of product I'd be getting items from if I ordered.

People will often not bother with an official complaint unless it is an expensive item that they want a refund on, they instead go the "less paperwork" route of leaving a negative review, binning the item, and ordering from elsewhere.

crazygringo3• 7 years ago

but does commingling mean they can't trace it back to which seller sent it to them for FBA? If they can, they can penalize that seller...

Correct, they can't trace it, so they can't penalize.

I'm assuming Amazon has a unique id for every individual item in their warehouses.

They don't. If they did, there would be some kind of unique bar code on every item you received from Amazon.

ikeboy5• 7 years ago

No, they are very capable of tracing it back. See https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200141480

This comes up often.

TheSpiceIsLife• 7 years ago

What would that look like?

“Item not as described / book clearly used / food item out of date, but probably came from a commingled bin so possibly not the result of the seller I purchased from. Full marks, five stars, perfect ten.”?

r00fus• 7 years ago

Fulfilled by Amazon is a complete mess and they should be tried for mail fraud.

Co-mingling? Sellers should be furious, and customer should boycott. Why isn't this just called fraud?

I can't trust Amazon to deliver what I ordered, period. Lesson learned.

jhall1468• 7 years ago

I'm confused as to what you think is mail fraud? Amazon is just fulfillment in these cases. It's clearly marked in the same place on every page, and as such, avoidable. It's purely a profit motive for Amazon, but I don't see how it's mail fraud.

matheusmoreira• 7 years ago

A key problem with the complaints is that customer reviews don't† take into account the effect of commingling.

There is no problem with the complaints. Consumers ordered something, paid for it and got a bad product. They have every right to complain and shouldn't be required to "take into account" operational failures of the company they did business with.

The expired food might have come from a different seller initially, but you were sent it because of Amazon's supply line optimisations.

How is that the consumer's problem?

TAForObvReasons• 7 years ago

I think the parent's thought is "How do you rate an otherwise great product that is sullied by Amazon's poor inventory management?"

In a situation like this, it seems like the best approach is to put pressure on Similac and others to remove their offerings from Amazon.

SomeOldThrow• 7 years ago

The expired food might have come from a different seller initially, but you were sent it because of Amazon's supply line optimisations.

Amazon took my cash, amazon should be responsible. The fact that they can't keep track of the goods they sell (also seems to be a problem with counterfeits) is their problem, even if they do their best to blame their suppliers.

dspillett5• 7 years ago

The fact that they can't keep track of the goods they sell (also seems to be a problem with counterfeits) is their problem

They can keep track. The do keep track.

So it isn't a problem for them unless it causes enough issues for us (the buyers) that we start going elsewhere and affecting the bottom line. We don't have access to that information, so we can't track the matter. Perhaps even the vendors can't either (I've never sold via Amazon so don't know at all).

[though others are saying the commingling does not affect products with expiry dates so we may be a little off topic for this sub-thread, unless that only applies to expiry dates and not best before dates which have difference legal standing - the discussion has got to the point where speculation is getting wilder and an injection of some cited facts may be needed to rein it in]

diebeforei485• 7 years ago

The seller is still Amazon. If Amazon chooses to "optimize" by shipping third-party garbage instead, that is their problem.

octokatt• 7 years ago

And they should still be able to be held liable for what they ship.

If I get salmonella from lettuce at a grocery store, I still get to hold the grocery store accountable, even if the farmer was to blame.

MiroF• 7 years ago

"Oh hey! Sorry I hit you with this car, what you've got to understand is that I was trying to optimize my way through this red light."

You can't "move fast and break things" if those things are basic food and safety regs.

xxxtentachyon2• 7 years ago

1000%. If the Tylenol tainting scandal happened in 2019, would it have been sold through Amazon’s supply chain?

ikeboy5• 7 years ago

Products that expire are not eligible for commingling, period. See https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200141480

bartread• 7 years ago

A key problem with the complaints is that customer reviews don't† take into account the effect of commingling.

Why should they take comingling into account? Why should I, as a customer, care? I don't want to know the details of your implementation. I don't care. I ordered some stuff. I gave you money: ship me the stuff I ordered.

Don't ship me some other similar stuff that isn't what I ordered, and don't ship me what I did order but in bad shape. Ship me what I ordered and paid for, and ship it in good condition.

All you've told me with your statement is that the implementation sucks, and now you're trying to blame me for it.

No, I'm sorry: Amazon commingling sucks.

I know I sound grumpy, and will readily admit this is a first world problem, but I've just gone through nearly three weeks of arsing around to get an item returned substantially because of what appears to be a comingling issue[1]. Who has the time for this? Comingling sucks. It needs to stop.

[1] Although I obviously can't be entirely sure it isn't the third party sellers fault.

sdfsafsaf• 7 years ago

After so many stories and experiences with fakes, why would anyone still buy items in Amazon that are otherwise typically found in pharmacies or grocery stores?

In my experience Amazon ships:

Food that is expired or fake Drugs that are expired or fake Batteries that are expired or fake

I've even received fake diapers! Very well done fakes too: we only noticed because of a very small logo that are included in the real ones.

I use Amazon only for high ticket items that are unlikely to harm me, and then only because of their easy return policy (Epson, I'm looking at you)

Finnucane• 7 years ago

After so many stories and experiences with fakes, why would anyone still buy items in Amazon

Or just this.

Liquix• 7 years ago

Because they have a crushing monopoly on US online commerce, and 80%+ of customers are happily consuming their cheap goods without knowing/caring about the quality/authenticity.

fasicle• 7 years ago

Still usually the fastest / most convenient way for me to get products in the U.K.

I've personally never had any issues with Amazon in terms of quality, but would never buy anything from them I put in my body - I usually stick to electronics of value < £100.

danesparza2• 7 years ago

Amazon just has a bigger target on their back.

Why wouldn't these issues affect any business with a sizable logistics chain? There are no guarantees of authenticity of goods at your local brick and mortar stores either.

notahacker• 7 years ago

Your local bricks and mortar store cares about monitoring its supply chain because it's on the hook for refunds and legal claims if the goods are counterfeit, defective or beyond their sell-by date. Amazon Marketplace outsources blame to the third party supplier (even when due to commingling it's actually not the third party supplier's fault...) which is usually overseas and with not much brand to protect in the first place.

awinder• 7 years ago

This is just patently untrue. Your brick and mortar store has a clear hierarchy of responsibility -- it's the workers job to prune expired items from shelves. It's the manager's job to make sure the employees are doing their job. It's the parent company's or owners job to make sure the manager is doing his job.

Amazon flips this on it's head by having a super-loose affiliation with people selling on it's platform. Turns out, when you break chains of responsibility, people act irresponsibly. This tale is as old as time.

If Amazon wants to fix this problem they should just get out of the independent seller game and let it go back to eBay. Amazon is tarnishing its brand image for low-margin shenanigans and it's just not worth it.

Spooky235• 7 years ago

Sure there are guarantees. Stores usually use actual distributors or order direct from OEMs.

When I worked with a big box store long ago, some manufacturers even audited our inventory when they bought end-caps, etc. Stuff like ink cartridges would be checked by vendor reps.

crazygringo3• 7 years ago

Easy:

1) because your local store doesn't have it (stores run out of things like the specific shampoo or deoderant or detergent all the time, e.g. probably 2/3 of the time they have regular Tide but not Tide Unscented)

2) because depending on the item, it can be 30-50% cheaper on Amazon (drugstore prices in Manhattan are highway robbery), or

3) because you need another $5 or $10 item to meet the free shipping threshold, so might as well stock up on Q-tips because you'll need them eventually.

Also, expired/fake items are extremely rare, despite the media attention. In about a decade of ordering many, many hundreds of items on Amazon, I once received a counterfeit camera battery (which was quickly refunded) and once received a jar of nuts that was close to, but not at, its expiration. (I also try to order items sold by Amazon directly, and I've never personally been hit by a comingling issue.)

So... that's why.

eric_b2• 7 years ago

I'll match your anecdote with mine. Before I canceled Prime, 30% of my previous 10 orders were defective or counterfeit. 3 in 10. Before that it was trending a bit above 10%. I finally got sick of it and don't order anything from Amazon anymore.

michaelt5• 7 years ago

why would anyone still buy items in Amazon that are otherwise typically found in pharmacies or grocery stores?

Presumably with the following logic:

* I went to Big Box Computer Store and they tried to charge me $$$ for a gold-plated Monster USB cable when I could get a perfectly good one for much less online.

* Therefore, there's precedent for me finding things online for a fraction of the price at big box retailers.

* Amazon has a pack of 8 Duracell-brand AA batteries for half the price of the nearest supermarket.

nkrisc3• 7 years ago

Amazon has a pack of 8 Duracell-brand AA batteries for half the price of the nearest supermarket.

Are you sure they're not counterfeit?

Spooky235• 7 years ago

Watch those batteries. The batteries at a wholesale club are dated 9-11 years out.

I’m looking at a box of batteries I received last week. They expire in 2020.

Raphmedia• 7 years ago

why would anyone still buy items in Amazon that are otherwise typically found in pharmacies or grocery stores?

Sometimes, it's comparing a one hour drive to the nearest town vs. waiting one day for free shipping.

underbluewaters• 7 years ago

Because I've been an Amazon customer for over a decade, and for half of that time I could trust them to have reliable reviews, good products, and the best prices.

Old habits die hard, but I'm now at the breaking point.

uwuhn• 7 years ago

It was recently cheaper for me to buy an over-the-counter medication through Amazon Prime Now than it was to buy it at an actual drug store in SF. It was like a $5 difference after tax and tip.

I was initially going to buy it on the way home, but I was so annoyed by how much it cost in store that I refused to buy it, even though the difference wasn't significant.

chenning• 7 years ago

The more I think about it, the differences between Amazon and Walmart are much smaller than I once thought. They're both platforms upon which sellers can sell goods. One of the bigger differences seems to be quality assurance. More specifically, to what degree is each company burdened with that important responsibility?

If some manufacturer put something unsafe into a food product, I would blame the manufacturer. Seems pretty cut and dry. On the other hand, if Walmart was stocking expired food I would blame Walmart because they should be responsible tracking inventory and maintaining a safe environment. Seems pretty cut and dry.

Why does Amazon seem different to me? More importantly, should they be seen as different?

AaronNewcomer• 7 years ago

It is different. This is talking about Amazon Marketplace sellers. It would be more similar to if Walmart set up a flea market with tents and stuff in its parking lot and let anyone rent a booth and sell whatever they wanted. Walmart would also provide a centralized cash register at the end of the parking lot where people could pay for the items they got from the individual sellers. Walmart would then settle up with the sellers at the end of the day for the sales they rang up for them, while keeping a cut to cover the cost of the transaction and logistics for setting up the tents and keeping security guards on site.

This would be an equivalent analogy. Does THAT seem different than going into Walmart and buying from inside Walmart?

sray• 7 years ago

Except it’s not like a flea market in the parking lot. It’s more like Walmart had a flea market, but mixed all of the items in with their own, inside of the store, and made it difficult for a casual buyer to tell the difference.

ganoushoreilly2• 7 years ago

Except in amazons case they take items from the tent sale and use it to augment their stocks in different warehouses so they can reduce shipping times. So in that instance it is the same thing regardless of “supplier middleman”.

Merrill6• 7 years ago

Amazon's sold and fulfilled by third-party is basically like buying on Ebay.

dbcurtis• 7 years ago

IOW, a more predictable experience than buying FBA.

osamagirl69• 7 years ago

Buying on ebay is a significantly better experience, because you are buying from a specific vendor so you can see the reviews for that specific vendor. You can usually also tell if the vendor is selling fake counterfeit crap based on looking at the rest of their listings and make your decision appropriately.

I canceled my prime membership about 18 months ago and do my online shopping mostly through ebay or occasionally direct from the manufacture or approved reseller if it is an obscure item or something that is likely to be counterfeit (flash storage, batteries, etc). It has come out significantly cheaper (although there is no more 2 day shipping, so value that at what you will) and generally been a much more pleasant experience.

gwbas1c• 7 years ago

I don't get it: I've been buying Amazon prime for about 8 years now, and I don't encounter nearly the amount of problems that everyone else reports.

Yes, I've gotten a few bad items from Amazon. I've also gotten bad items from brick and mortar stores as well. (I recently had a bunch of items go bad from Trader Joe's long before their sell-by date.)

danesparza2• 7 years ago

Do you live near a major city? I've wondered if there is a correlation between incidents like this and specific cities or if there is a difference between more/less populous areas of the U.S.

DanTheManPR• 7 years ago

It depends on what types of things you're typically buying, there are systematic problems in a few classes of products. For example: board games and 3D printer accessories on Amazon are rampantly counterfeited, to the point that it's often difficult to get the real thing. You may actually have received a high quality counterfeit before and not realized it; for example, I used my Xbox360 hard drive for years before realizing that it had totally bogus identifier markings.

mortenjorck• 7 years ago

The sophistication of counterfeit goods on Amazon is often impressive: For popular items like controllers for the Playstation 4, there are fakes that look and feel (and work) almost exactly like the real thing. The most sophisticated fake DualShock 4s come in convincing retail packaging, they pair with your console, and the only immediate tells (short of waiting a few months for various cut-rate components to fail, such as the battery) are things like the analog sticks clicking the wrong way or the silkscreening on the accessory port being the wrong opacity.

At this point, if I'm looking for a popular brand-name product, and it doesn't have some impossible-to-fake functionality (like booting iOS), I assume by default that there are fakes commingled into Amazon's inventory.

thrower1232• 7 years ago

Same. In close to ten years, I've gotten one mixed-up delivery, where they evidently mislabeled my package with somebody else's when it went out for shipping. And one item that was lost in shipping and was never delivered, which they immediately refunded.

Otherwise, I can't complain at all. Sometimes, the stuff is crap, but you kind of expect that when you are buying cheap generic stuff - if you really want to see cheap junk, go to an Ocean State Job Lot or Dollar General.

acomjean• 7 years ago

During the holidays a few years back, I ordered 3 things from amazon in early December. I received all 3 items and a fourth bonus package which was a literally a thick piece of cardboard with a label. To this day have no idea how that happened.

Spooky235• 7 years ago

Ocean State Job Lot is specifically a jobber — it’s in the name. You can find junk and amazing stuff.

jcims• 7 years ago

Amazon has hundreds of millions of customers, the majority of which have experiences like yours (and mine). If you approach the Amazon marketplace with a modicum of common sense you'll generally be OK. And even when things go wrong, Amazon will (in my experience) bend over backwards to make it up to you.

I'm not saying they are perfect or even a good company overall. Just that scenarios like this generally fall below the noise floor and yet still get lots of press.

trianglem• 7 years ago

About the same for me. The one time I had an issue with something that wasn't delivered in good condition, they sent out a replacement after a 3 min chat conversation.

Scoundreller• 7 years ago

I definitely buy allergy pills off EBay that are close to expiry.

But the vendors will state this.

It’ll then take me another 4-5 years to go through the bottle of 500 :)

fortran77• 7 years ago

If people were selling expired or near expired items, clearly marked and identified, at deep discount, there would be little issue.

But that's NOT what we're talking about here. That's a different discussion.

tjpaudio2• 7 years ago

It's been my experience that nearly all items with expirations on amazon are either near the end of their shelf life or past it. Coffee, candy, supplements, whatever. It's very obviously used as a dumping ground. It's crazy to me that this isn't common knowledge by now.

stagger872• 7 years ago

I'll offer the counter anecdote. I've order thousands of food items off Amazon over several years and have had zero issues with expiration dates. I check any food item I think would cause me illness from being expired.

tjpaudio2• 7 years ago

Expiration vs. freshness. When I buy coffee or anything at a supermarket, the expiration date is about as far into the future as you can get. When I order on amazon, it's always much shorter. Coffee is a great example. It's usually months fresher if I buy in store. Not an issue per-say but you are totally buying the end of life stuff.

bArray• 7 years ago

Public service announcement: Always check your food, purchased online or in a shop. In both cases, you're probably hoping that some bit got flipped in a database (or somebody simply remembered) and a low-paid worker went out and checked the product's date. Accidents happen all the time.

Scare stories: One friend found a live snail in her supermarket salad. Another friend found a cutting blade in a tin of cat food. I've personally purchased in-date bread from a shop and it was covered in mold spores between the slices. In a shop in Spain their milk had sunlight directly on it (and it was very hot), resulting in lumpy milk.

todipa• 7 years ago

I don't purchase baby food by Amazon. You can't trust the resellers. I don't understand how there aren't regulations on policing your marketplace for unlawful products, especially those covered by strict liability.

partisan• 7 years ago

I ordered a particular type of Hanes boxer briefs that are made from a breathable fabric and hold their shape really well. Instead, I got a pack of the roughest, lowest quality material boxer briefs, the likes of which you wouldn't be able to buy in the dollar store.

I'm pretty much done with Amazon. They're betting against people actually getting frustrated and leaving, but I haven't ordered in a few months and I will get rid of my prime membership.

dwoozle• 7 years ago

If you know anything about Amazon, if you know what commingling means, or if you spend 5 minutes reading about this company you will steer well clear for baby formula, food, electronics, or anything else safety related. Stick to using Amazon for books, DVDs, and knickknacks. Target.com or Walmart.com will give you the same price as Amazon, with slightly slower shipping, and no Russian Roulette with counterfeiters.

damontal• 7 years ago

Walmart uses resellers and I’ve had problems with them recently.

Spooky235• 7 years ago

Check out Target — they are ridiculously awesome. You can order stuff online and pull into a parking lot in a few minutes, with the guy waiting.

m23khan• 7 years ago

Frankly speaking, the amount of steps a customer has to go through to ensure quality from Amazon -- check out reviews for buyers, cross check prices to ensure you are not getting ripped off, check out estimated delivery times, and then as the article (and comments here) state, be on look out for expiration date -- for me at least, it makes sense to use Amazon only for books.

Everything else, even living in the First World large Global City (Toronto), I find it easier to just go out to stores to do quick check and buy with piece of mind.

brian_herman__• 7 years ago

Sometimes amazon even sells fake books! https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/amazo...

strictnein• 7 years ago

This is still happening. Just last week:

https://twitter.com/billpollock/status/1183094406573748225

rockinghigh• 7 years ago

I can confirm. I received an obviously fake book that seemed to have been printed on a cheap printer.

fourier_mode• 7 years ago

For one Teavana listing, the top customer review says the tea had a “terrible chemical smell” possibly from spoiled fruit

It seems like an exaggeration, the listing states that the product got a 4.5/5 rating.(https://www.amazon.com/Teavana-Beach-Bellini-2-lbs/dp/B07B3Q...)

worstestes• 7 years ago

FakeSpot apparently rates it as a "D" grade. Take that as you will though.

https://www.fakespot.com/product/teavana-beach-bellini-2-lbs

nkrisc3• 7 years ago

All Amazon reviews should be considered highly suspect by default, until determined otherwise.

qwerty456127• 7 years ago

I wouldn't mind if these were discounted. Experience suggests expired goods almost always are perfectly fine although this is not guaranteed.

eric_b2• 7 years ago

I canceled my Prime membership a few months ago. I never bought food on Amazon, but I received plenty of counterfeit or obviously used and broken items sold as new. I went back through my order history recently and it was over 10% of my orders in the last three years had issues. And I wasn't buying from the marketplace if I could help it.

There are still some things I have to go through great lengths to buy other places (Furnace filters for a reasonable price, mouse bait station poison etc) but I think it's worth it. I don't give Amazon a dollar if I can help it.

vegardx• 7 years ago

Somewhat unrelated, how long did it take you to figure out how to cancel your Prime membership? For me it took considerable effort, to the point where it started to be funny.

warent• 7 years ago

I canceled mine fairly easily a couple months ago. I can't remember exactly how, but it didn't seem particularly difficult. I do remember that they refunded the unused amount which was nice. Still though after being a prime member for like 3 or 4 years they've lost me as a customer since they allowed their platform to become an expensive Alibaba bloated with fake reviews.

Ancalagon• 7 years ago

Somewhat unrelated note to your unrelated note, make sure you delete your credit card details. Every time I left the CC saved in my profile, and I cancelled my membership and cancelled auto-renewal, I would magically be charged a month or two down the line for prime membership.

heavyset_go2• 7 years ago

If a company makes cancelling their service difficult, or tries to "auto-renew" your subscription after cancelling, call your credit card company to report that you want your to cancel that service and don't want further charges from them.

gourabmi• 7 years ago

I cancelled my Prime membership too. I realized that as long as I live in a city where everything is nearby, I don't need Prime that much.

For everything else, there is Walmart NextDay service.

driverdan• 7 years ago

What did you order to have that many problems? I've never had any of the issues you've mentioned.

zaroth2• 7 years ago

Expired products I feel a lot less strongly about than counterfeit. Expired products have a label on them that the consumer can look at and check. As long as Amazon is honoring refunds, they are financially incentivized to do what makes sense to fix the issue.

If Amazon insisted on shipping an identical product out of a west coast fulfillment center to an east coast customer for which they had a fulfillment center 20 miles away holding the same SKU, they would not be able to offer the kind of service that they do.

“Comingling” is the fundamental basis for them to leverage their scale to provide unmatched service. It’s essential to their business model precisely because how enormously valuable it is to Amazon and to its customers, and the way it gets better with scale, despite the concomitant lesser inconveniences.

Fundamentally, Amazon still knows exactly which seller provided each buyer with each item, despite there being only a single shared product page. So they already have all the data, and of course they are using it internally to track per-seller review scores, refund rates, etc.

darksaints• 7 years ago

This isn't about comingling, even though it doesn't make it any better. It's about the fact that outside of Amazon's grocery-specific operations (Fresh, Prime Now, and Whole Foods), Amazon does not have a mechanism for FIFO or any form of decision making based on expiration date. All decisions are optimized purely on fulfillment costs alone. As far as I know (I've been out for three years now), they have no plans to change this, as it would increase their fulfillment costs.

welder• 7 years ago

Related: 95% of baby food sold in the USA contains toxic chemicals and heavy metals

https://www.healthybabyfood.org/sites/healthybabyfoods.org/f...

jax2Brian• 7 years ago

I cant speak for every Amazon warehouse but @ Jax2 FC, I've personally worked a role in Vendor Returns, where we would remove, return and/or destroy expired food and candy that has sat in the warehouse for too long. Most of the food that was removed, was on its way to being expired in a few weeks and it was removed well before the expiration date. Some of it gets donated if its still good and the expired goods get destroyed in the trash. - BrianD.J, Amazon FC Ambassador

jeegsy• 7 years ago

Wal-Mart (or any of the big retailers) is that you?

Amazon is shipping expired food, customers say

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