Ask HN: Do you meditate? How/Why?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2125115

by fredoliveira • 16 years ago

184 118 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I've been doing a little bit of meditation lately and it helped me take time off to put things in perspective and generally feel a little less stressed out about life and work. However, I sometimes find myself thinking that maybe I should spend that time doing something useful (even if I know meditation is good for me).

What's your take? Do you do it? How and why do you do it? Care to share your experience? I guess what I'm looking for is a bit of peer validation for either side of the coin, and your thoughts. Thanks everyone.

fredoliveira6• 16 years ago

To those curious - like I once was - about how you actually get started with meditation, I've used the introduction to mindfulness series over at audiodharma [1]. It's often hard to find resources that manage to actually separate meditation from zen/buddhist practices, and they do it quite well. The lectures are from Gil Fronsdal who's a Ph.D. from Stanford.

[1] http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/

jonhendry3• 16 years ago

There's also a podcast available from them.

jschuur3• 16 years ago

That's kind of a personal question.

Oh wait, MEDITATE? No, not that one. Takes too long.

fredoliveira6• 16 years ago

I didn't mean for this to be a personal question - I don't think it is. To me, meditation is scientific (although to some, and in some religions, it is a spiritual thing). I could just as well have asked about whether you sleep or do sports, or code using vim vs textmate. It's as personal as you want it to be - but I respect your opinion, and your reluctance to reply.

mdwrigh2• 16 years ago

He was joking that he read another, more personal activity that begins with m, rather than what you actually wrote - meditate.

jschuur3• 16 years ago

I was making a joke because at first I misread the word 'meditate' as something else.

I'm beginning to realize that there's a humor tax on your karma if you're prone to make sarcastic jokes in well meant questions. Seems only fair.

But to answer your question in ernest, I've been thinking about it after hearing folks like Dan Benjamin and Leo Babauta talk about it, but currently don't. I'm sure it can benefit a lot of people (even me), but somehow there's a motivational hump I haven't gotten over yet and there always seems like there's something else to do.

...which basically means I'm the perfect candidate for someone who ought to do it.

metageek2• 16 years ago

I don't have much patience for the claims that not thinking can yield profound insights; but I have found mediation techniques useful for simple relaxation.

I got the techniques from an ebook called "Mindfulness In Plain English":

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html

Joakal• 16 years ago

Generally sleep and relaxing with friends is the best meditation for me.

klondikered• 16 years ago

I meditate to awaken (in the deeper sense), to bring calm to a wild mind (as I think Robert Pirsig said, peace of mind is not the most important thing, it's the only thing), and to try to become a better, more compassionate person.

You don't have to meditate in a convoluted sitting position if you choose not to (although there are good reasons for sitting in lotus).

I would start by just regularly sitting or walking quietly, being aware of your breathing, and watching thoughts and emotions flowing into and right back out of your mind's I.

vidar• 16 years ago

I have been meditating for a while, always sitting in a chair. What are the advantages of the Lotus?

fredoliveira6• 16 years ago

I apologize for simply lifting this off Wikipedia, but I too had that question before, and this paragraph was helpful:

The Lotus position is adopted to allow the body to be held completely steady for long periods of time. As the body is steadied the mind becomes calm, the first step towards meditation. The posture applies pressure to the lower spine which may facilitate relaxation. The breath can slow down, muscular tension decrease and blood pressure subside. The coccygeal and sacral nerves are toned as the normally large blood flow to the legs is redirected to the abdominal region. Digestion may also be improved.

pjscott• 16 years ago

My cynical suspicion is that the lotus position is traditional, and looks cool, and therefore people have come up with rationalizations for it.

Someone has already quoted Wikipedia, so I won't repeat it, but most of those sound like benefits that you can get by lying down, or finding a really comfortable chair, or something similar. And the bit about improving digestion sounds especially dubious, since it doesn't really say what that means, and a lot of Yoga folks have a bad habit of making vaguely shiny-sounding medical claims without evidence.

(Do I sound negative? I actually do sometimes meditate, because it's a pleasant thing to do. I just want to make sure I'm not fooling myself about why I'm doing it.)

jonhendry3• 16 years ago

My understanding is that the lotus position forms a tripod or your two knees and your butt, which is supposedly pretty stable.

I wouldn't know, as I haven't a prayer of attaining that position.

I have a little folding wooden meditation bench that I use. I don't think I'd want to meditate for more than half an hour using it, though. Some similar benches are available with cushions.

fjabre• 16 years ago

I recently started meditating about 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the evening. I've been sleeping much better and I can remember my dreams more easily. I also notice that I generally feel much more relaxed. It's not a cure all but it really does help.

I do not prescribe to any of the spiritual/pseudo-religion around it though. In fact, if it weren't for the noticeable benefits the 'religion' would have scared me off. There are different types but I'm more into the vedic/mantra and breathing exercises.

checoivan• 16 years ago

Guided meditation. A work-mate started a group, so we meet over in a room at lunch. He brings speakers and plays the recording from his ipod, so we meditate listening to the mix for about half an hour with our eyes closed. It's very relaxing and afterwards I find it easier to focus and code.

ahoyhere• 16 years ago

There's lots and lots of research out there that meditation increases insight, memory, improves sleep, reduces stress, reduces the physical perception of pain, improves, well, just about everything.

Useful refs:

http://www.amazon.com/Destructive-Emotions-Scientific-Dialog... (the Audio CD set is even better, imo, with actual dialog)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43006-2005Jan...

My favorite intros to secular meditation (that is, non-religious Buddhism):

http://www.amazon.com/Wherever-You-There-Are-ROUGH/dp/140130...

http://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/B0...

http://www.amazon.com/Being-Nobody-Going-Nowhere-Meditations...

Doing what I learned in from three, plus the Destructive Emotions audio book, absolutely transformed my life. Like night and day. Now I'm one of the best-adjusted people I know, despite having gone through (and, in a few cases, done) some horrendous things.

What mindfulness meditation teaches you, above all physical side effects, is to accept things as they are. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to change them, if they're truly bad, but most people deny what is reality. As if that helps. (I sure did.) But denying just hurts more, doesn't make it untrue, of course, and denial makes it impossible for you to improve things.

I think most of the troubles in life are caused by denial.

And, bonus, the level of mindfulness makes it easy for me to spot user interface/process (and therefor product) opportunities because I almost never just "tune out" and work on autopilot.

jasonshen• 16 years ago

As a gymnast, I found meditation to be be a powerful way to train my mind to focus. This was particularly important for the pommel horse, which is a super nuanced event that you can can't "muscle" your way to success. I do believe I noticed a difference in my performance as time went on.

Now I try to meditate simply as a way of introducing calm into a life that is jam packed with work, socializing and outside projects. One of my goals for 2011 is to spend at least 2,000 minutes in meditation.

shadowpwner2• 16 years ago

5 minutes a day? ;)

trobertson• 16 years ago

Better than zero.

As a former collegiate gymnast myself, I happen to know that you don't have a long time to meditate (in the gymnastics world, it's called visualizing your routine) before it's your turn to compete. Being able to get into a meditative state quickly can make or break your performance. Take to long, and you don't reach the state, and are more prone to errors. Almost all of the high level gymnasts visualize every routine they do, with varying degrees of success.

As you pointed out, Jason's goal does only average at about 5 minutes a day. But that's more time than a gymnast usually has (unless he wants to dismiss his teammate's routines, which is not exactly... nice). So for him, 5 minutes may be all he needs to reap the benefits, whereas someone who hasn't had the training to quickly get into that state may need more time.

MaxGabriel• 16 years ago

I tried it a few times last fall, but I feel REALLY awkward doing it around other people. Since I'm in college I don't have many spaces for 'me' where I could meditate, but maybe I'll find some this semester in the library.

wchrisn• 16 years ago

you should continue meditation. It's ok if you start with 2 minutes daily and then slowly move to 5 minutes and then to 10 minutes..

I find the "Tai Chi - Standing Meditation" easy and effective

Refer: http://www.yogiimpressions.com/product-authordetails/The-Sma...

lethargus• 16 years ago

Here are some books and audio that have been insightful and enjoyable to read about mindfulness and related topics.

Peace Is Every Step: The Path of Mindfulness in Everyday Life - Thich Nhat Hanh

Full Catastrophe Living: Using the Wisdom of Your Body and Mind to Face Stress, Pain, and Illness - Jon Kabat-Zinn

Still the Mind: An Introduction to Meditation - Alan Watts

Also, these two audio CD collections are helpful:

Out Of Your Mind: The Nature of Consciousness - Alan Watts

Guided Mindfulness Meditation - Jon Kabat-Zinn

phrotoma• 16 years ago

Really enjoy Jon Jabat-Zinn's material. He's got a couple videos on google tech talks and his guided CD's are very good. I came to meditation knowing nothing at all and his clear and simple explanations helped immensely.

CeiII• 16 years ago

I agree, I find his material very good. I think he has good timing and his voice is in no way annoying; something I often find off putting with audio CD's. He has a good ability to remove the 'mumbo bumbo bullshit' (as he puts it) and get to the core of what is important.

I also started with the Google tech talk and went on to his other work.

coffeeaddicted• 16 years ago

I do sometimes the "close your eyes and care only about breath and nothing else for 30 breaths" thing. It sometimes helps me to get back on track when my thoughts start completely spinning off.

ewanmcteagle• 16 years ago

I do not meditate because I fear that doing so may cause me to ascend to a higher plane of existence and I'm not prepared for that.

cmchugh2• 16 years ago

I meditate regularly. I fear losing my ambition or competitive drive, and I suspect that this will hold me back from making real "spiritual" progress.

alexophile• 16 years ago

Before I decided to start meditating, I read a ton of material on how and why to do it and none of it really stuck. So instead, I just sat down on the floor and started thinking.

At first, it was just free-association. I would let my mind wander, noting rather passively the landmarks along the way. As I refined my process a bit, I was able to spend more time noting than wandering, until a single topic could span weeks worth of almost-daily sessions.

So I firmly believe that there's no one right way to meditate, but there is a deep and proven benefit to setting aside part of your day for contemplative, abstract thought.

kingsidharth6• 16 years ago

I love meditating! Been doing it since age of 6 (I was born in India & my Grandmother is an awesome teacher). Why? It's like bathing for mind & soul.

I even started a blog about it: http://www.meditationrocks.us/blog

You can find my experiences and learnings there.

  Summing-up:

How to Meditate (Easiest Way):

Sit in comfortable place.

With back straight (or you will fall asleep).

Close your eyes & focus on your breathing.

Count in as 1 and out as 2 till 15. Start back at 1 after 15

If you find your mind wandering, and it will, just start back at 15.

FAQ

Do I put on music?

Light music, optional.

Do I need special equipment or place?

Nada, anywhere you can sit with back straight is fine.

I've too much energy for meditation

Cool! Then enjoy, meditate when you are feeling low.

PS: Will be eager to answer any questions, or help someone find their way... or maybe do some HN Meditation Group :P Just thinking out loud.

ced• 16 years ago

Can you sit against a wall? How long should one persevere before giving up if nothing interesting happens?

silentbicycle• 16 years ago

You say "Nothing interesting happens" like it's a bad thing. You're unclenching your mind, not being sprinkled with pixie dust. :) Expect to feel bored, then continually noticing how much you distract yourself (a song popped in my head...do I have e-mail?...what time is it?), then wondering if your knees will forgive you, then (maybe eventually, if you quit shifting), calm.

If you want to think about it as some sort of "deliberate sensory deprivation to stop the signals that would normally reinforce habitual fight or flight stimuli" thing, ok. It doesn't need to be a religious thing. Either way: You sit. It's boring. Deep breath. It just is.

I'm not the author of the parent comment, but in my experience, sitting for 15-20 minutes seems about right. Rather than trying to be all hardcore and meditating for 2+ hours a day, just try sticking with it a couple days a week. Doing it for shorter periods regularly adds up. It's not magic, though - it's more like consistently getting enough sleep. But it really does help, like emptying the lint trap in your mind.

Also, sitting against a wall is ok (if you get used to seiza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiza)), but you'll probably be happier with a "zafu" (small sitting cushion) so your back and knees are at an angle >90 degrees. You can also use a couch cushion, tree trunk programming book, or whatever.

ethagnawl• 16 years ago

i don't think anything is supposed to happen... (someone please, correct me if i'm wrong.)

jinfiesto2• 16 years ago

I don't recommend sitting against a wall. If you plan on meditating, I recommend investing in a zafu and zabuton. They'll provide much better back support than a wall or just the floor.

initself4• 16 years ago

Try meditating for 24 hours in a row. Something "interesting" is bound to happen - most likely severe pain somewhere in the body.

If you were able to observe that pain objectively with equanimity, meaning a) not averting from an experience you don't like or b) craving to have an experience you do like, wisdom about the nature of reality arises spontaneously.

More specifically, pain is not really what you think it is - some experience to shun worth avoiding at all costs. Watching the mind react to such an experience, and there are so many experiences that the mind is nearly hardwired to avert from or cling to, speak volumes. You will see how desperate it wants to stay in control of your experience and you should also note that because you can observe your mind, YOU ARE NOT YOUR MIND. Now you are starting to inquire into the nature of reality as-it-is, not as you want it to be.

Yes, you can sit against a wall.

kingsidharth6• 16 years ago

Don't think you are participating in anything special. How long do you give up bathing before nothing special happens? Well... it's really that sort of question.

If you do it with 'easy' going attitude... you might feel sensations in your body. Or else.. just a relaxed mood and balanced body. Just be easy about it.

yogsototh• 16 years ago

I am curious what I should do to meditate:

- should I try not to think about anything

- let my thoughts go free

- think about _nice_ things

- make some construction (like visualizing a tree, visualize all element of a clock, visualize a mathematic object)

kingsidharth6• 16 years ago

It's not possible to think nothing, so you think a thought that doesn't expand into something big.

Like focus on breathing... occupy ur mind with it.

Focus on birds chirping around.. Now your mind might wander off to ANGRY BIRDS but pull it back softly. And focus on just sound or sensation.

Idea is to not think about something that expands into an essay. Helpful?

cal5k• 16 years ago

We actually took the radical step of hiring someone to come and do group meditation in our office once a week. It's entirely optional, but typically our entire team gets involved. Everyone really looks forward to it. A great many have extended it into a daily meditation habit, which is great.

Makes sense - if our team is less stressed and has better control over their mental state, that means a happier, healthier, more productive company.

byteclub• 16 years ago

I've been meditating for a few months now. It helps reduce stress, improves ability to focus and resist distractions. Love it.

MikeMacMan• 16 years ago

When I was in high school, I started meditating before my bowling competitions, using this book as a guide: http://amzn.com/B002VGXFVW (Zen Mind, Beginners Mind).

It definitely helped my performance, and I want to bring meditation back into my life. Maybe this thread will help :)

markbao• 16 years ago

Yes. Meditation is instrumental for me in my day-to-day life. Meditation is my medium for self-reflection, relaxation, and clearing my mind. For me, it's also been helpful for combating depression.

I highly suggest the Reddit meditation subreddit — http://reddit.com/r/meditation. Basically the Hacker News of meditation. The archives are a great place to browse to learn more about meditation, like different techniques, advice (like should you scratch an itch or watch it? meditating under the influence? etc.), and everything related.

Edit: if you have an iPhone, the Equanimity app is pretty cool for timing your sits as well as recording thoughts or notes about your sit.

jmenu• 16 years ago

I meditate on the Word (Jesus) of God day and night. I also read the Bible and pray. Just talk to him like any friend. I receive peace and incite about things happening in my life.

ernestipark• 16 years ago

Ditto!

rokhayakebe• 16 years ago

I have been doing some research lately on how to meditate. You should do some light wikipedia reading on Pineal Gland, and Chakra, as well as the 528 mhz frequency.

Several techniques will suggest you keep your mind blank while meditating. This is next to impossible. Instead focus your mind on simple image and try to visualize it (with your eye closed) at the area of your forehead between your eyes.

febeling• 16 years ago

I recently started to exercise the Five Tibetan Rites. That is not meditation, more yoga. And even that they constitute yoga is disputed. But what is more important is that it really increased my energy level throughout the whole day, and it helps me a lot to start things, stick with things, and after a whole day of work still by motivated to have conversation, do everyday chores and enjoy life. Give it a try. (There is a small booklet by one Peter Kelder about it, telling an unbelievable story how they become know in the west through the quest of one British Army officer.)

eof• 16 years ago

Minute for minute I don't think there is much more useful work you can do than focused meditation.

Sitting on a pillow with your eyes closed with your mind wandering is probably not productive. But honing your mind to focus on just that one image; or on nothing at all.. that is very very powerful.

gyardley• 16 years ago

Never meditated in the Buddhist sense. I'm not a particularly spiritual person, and the idea of doing some sort of 'meditating' doesn't appeal to me at all - it's not something that fits my concept of 'me'.

That said, I do spend a little bit of time - every day if I can - thinking about the many good things in my life and how much worse things would be without them. By doing so I find that I appreciate my situation a lot more, am much less likely to take things for granted, and am a lot more stoic about the not-so-good things that happen to everybody from time to time.

flurie• 16 years ago

With respect to your own self-examination, I don't find that one need be a spiritual person in order to meditate according to some Buddhist traditions. And interspersed in a lot of Buddhist teaching seems to be the caveat that the same approach may not work for different individuals.

flatline3• 16 years ago

I can relate a little about my experiences doing zen-style meditation over the last few years.

After long periods of meditation, like a weekend retreat or even a day of sitting, I tend to be very focused and relaxed. My normally chaotic emotions are subdued and I have a profound feeling of well-being and peace. This generally lasts for several days to several weeks depending on the lengths of sitting. Sitting daily sometimes has this effect as well, it is more intermittent for me.

On the other hand, I am sometimes consumed by the strongest, most negative emotions I've ever experienced after sitting for extended periods. Since starting meditation, I've had numerous anxiety attacks and periods of rage. For the first time in my life, it became really real to me that I was going to die. A lot of anxiety that I had apparently suppressed over the years came to a head, which was anything but pleasant. I've had numerous health issues which I largely attribute to stress, so it's not like my life has been stress-free from the meditation. I've also been pushed towards examining most of my beliefs, particularly of a religious/spiritual nature, and have had to let go of a lot of things that used to give me comfort.

To paraphrase the buddhist doctrine, life is suffering, and everything is subject to change. Meditation has many benefits but I'm not of the opinion that there is a steady state of happiness/bliss that can be achieved. I think the best that can be done is to deal with difficult situations more gracefully, as they are unceasing, and to show compassion towards our fellow beings, as they are struggling under the same delusions, prejudices, and pains that we are.

angusgr• 16 years ago

A lot of anxiety that I had apparently suppressed over the years came to a head, which was anything but pleasant

I obviously don't know you or your situation, but is it possibly a good thing that these suppressed things are coming out now? In the long run, perhaps you can work through them and you'll be in a better place at the end?

flatline3• 16 years ago

That's the idea, and dealing with this kind of stuff is part of most of the spiritual traditions that I've investigated over the years. I definitely think that meditation has been and continues to be a worthwhile pursuit, for this as well as the relaxation aspects. I did have an idea going in that the benefits would all be of a calming nature, and was somewhat surprised to find that, at least for me, this was not the case.

cmchugh2• 16 years ago

Regarding negative feelings after meditation, I am grateful that you mentioned it because I had these too and this is the first time I've heard from anyone with a similar experience.

I took up regular meditation last Spring, sitting 30-40 minutes daily in my best approximation of zazen. I found the meditation quite relaxing and on some days I felt much better afterwards or had small insights about my life. Other days were not so pleasant. I believe I experienced a sharper awareness of the stress I felt at work (which in the past I would have denied feeling at all) and I was much more likely to notice when I became distracted at work, resulting in growing frustration and anxiety. I think it also made me more aware of the shallowness of my relationships with my coworkers and my own reluctance to engage with them.

Overall I suppose it's been a positive and educational experience.

thomas112• 16 years ago

Preparing you for these (transient) negative feelings is a standard of Buddhist meditation teaching. At least it's in the foundational texts and it was mentioned in the few Buddhist groups I've attended. It would be unfortunate if modern meditation guides would leave that out.

Confusion• 16 years ago

I've had sudden fits of anger and anxiety caused by, well, the realization of being alive means, only I don't meditate. You may have inferred causation where there is merely correlation: I find it all too likely that the impulses that drive one to take up meditation are the same ones that drive one to consider 'life'... and suffer the consequences of those considerations. I.e. You're just getting older and wiser, with or without meditation.

PixelRobot• 16 years ago

I do it whenever it feels like my brain needs a reboot, that is, when my mental processes seem to be frozen and don't flow properly. That's like a pair of times every day. Some days more, some other less.

Nothing fancy, I just sit there breathing and take everything else out of my mind.

Since I do it when I feel I need it doesn't feel like a waste of time or anything like that. I know I'll be more focused after meditating and will do a better job.

michael_dorfman• 16 years ago

I do pretty traditional, mainstream Buddhist-style meditation on the breath every day. At the moment I'm sitting 30 minutes a day; there have been times when I've averaged an hour a day.

I find it has great benefits-- much more than any other activity I could do in the time I'm spending.

I'd definitely recommend that you (or anybody else interested) go to a center, and take a few sessions with an in-person teacher. Learning to meditate from a book (or website, etc.) is a bit like learning to swim from a book: it might be possible to do it that way, but it is far from optimal.

In my experience, Buddhist centers are happy to show people how to meditate with absolutely no expectations or conditions; there's nothing special you have to believe or commit to, or anything like that.

jonhendry3• 16 years ago

There are a number of sites with downloadable dharma talks, guided meditations, etc. Those would be helpful people who don't have a nearby center. (Or whose nearby center is of a variety that isn't agreeable. For instance, when I took a meditation class at a Korean Zen temple in Chicago, full-length prostrations were a significant part of it. I'm not keen on prostrations. As an atheist, they feel silly.)

mmaunder• 16 years ago

When I run, I no longer listen to music and I just let my mind wander. My layman's theory is that it's a form of meditation. At the end I'm full of mental energy and new ideas.

riledhel• 16 years ago

Exactly. In my opinion, meditation is a state of mind, so if you achieve it running, swimming or sitting it doesn't really matter.

nagnatron• 16 years ago

While I'm sure that what you describe works for you, one meditation technique is precisely the opposite of what you are doing. Next time you go out to run, try to be perfectly in the moment feeling every sensation and try not to create little movies in your head.

financegeek2• 16 years ago

I completely agree. I do most of my running on my own, early in the morning and it is a great time to get ready for the day just noticing the world, your body, waking up, and accepting those things and moving on. I also try to do sitting meditation before (usually out of bed, meditate, warm up, run), but if I have to choose I run before meditate and call it even.

ylem• 16 years ago

I found vipassana to be useful (www.dhamma.org). It definitely helps in dealing with adverse events in life...

andremarq• 16 years ago

I highly recommend checking out IFS (Internal Family Systems): http://www.selfleadership.org/node/7285. It's really helped deepen my meditation practice.

Awareness by Osho is also a great book on meditation: http://www.amazon.com/Awareness-Living-Balance-Osho-Insights...

prakash• 16 years ago

Slava (coffeemug) has some excellent thoughts on this subject: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=455008

sever• 16 years ago

I've a little bit periodically over the past few years. The most I've ever done is 20m at a time, but every day.

I've had the same reservations as you, is it doing any good, how can I tell? It is trivially easy to be wrong.

I do like something I see in the people who are more advanced practioners and I keep being drawn back to it.

My latest thinking is that since I can not for the moment find anything longterm to measure, I'll do it for the immediate enjoyment I get directly from the session - from physically relaxing if nothing else. This has now made my sessions very short, just a few minutes at a time before I stop enjoying it.

I'll add another recomendation for "Mindfulness in Plain English", I like it a lot. I'm slowly consuming it, reading a few paragraphs before each meditation session.

rednum• 16 years ago

Simming through the comments, it seems that there is noone who actually had bad experiences with meditation or at least decided that it was waste of time/lacked any significant effects. I really would like to read that kind of opinions (to get fuller picture of this activity), however most topics (sites) about meditation are full of people who actually do and 'like' it or who want to start. Can somebody share that kind of stories (or point to them)?

rfugger• 16 years ago

A while ago I was having a lot of trouble being productive in my life, and was considering using some of the anti-akrasia techniques posted on HN to keep myself in line. But I also had a nagging feeling that there was more to my procrastination than just laziness, and that I needed to get more deeply in touch with my own motivations so my work could be harmonious rather than a constant struggle against myself. Honestly I didn't even really know what I wanted.

So instead of resolving to stick to a schedule for pursuing a particular project, I resolved to meditate every day and let the rest sort itself out. I have meditated sporadically for about 10 years, and always appreciated it, but recently had gotten out of the habit.

So far it's been pretty good. The productivity is coming more naturally, albeit in somewhat random bursts, but mostly I'm just more at peace with myself, which I think is more what I'm really after than anything.

takameyer• 16 years ago

I've gone back and forth with meditation. Generally if I feel that my emotions are negatively affecting my actions, then it's time to sit back and analyze it. Clearing my head through breath meditation allows me to attack my problems one at a time.

mattgreenrocks• 16 years ago

It isn't meditation, but it is similar. I've started journaling as a sort of auto-psychotherapy, and it seems like it can really work if you start digging into issues. I'm not sure I'd recommend it to people if they don't already know something about mindfulness, as it seems like it is easy to get yourself stuck in an emotional rut if you're not careful.

This is actually part of the treatment that a book prescribes for dealing with RSI. I'm giving it a shot, because I can only learn more about myself from the experience.

Every hacker-type should experiment with mindfulness. Creativity flows out of knowing thyself.

rvb• 16 years ago

If you can set aside 10 days during which you are completely cut off from the outside world, check out Vipasanna. I found it tremendously valuable. It teaches you to filter less of the info your senses are continuously delivering to your brain, and be more aware of every sensation.

What's the point, you ask? Well, beyond the obvious benefits of being more aware of physical sensations, in the process of disciplining your mind, you find out a lot about yourself -- what issues in your life are constantly distracting you from the task at hand, etc.

This only works when you starve your mind of new distractions -- hence, no talking, writing, reading, or even eye contact during the 10 days. It's a lot of time, I know, but for me it was well worth it.

rubashov• 16 years ago

For the last few months every morning I brew a cup of coffee and then sit down in a chair for ten minutes and stare at a dracaena plant across the room, coffee in hand, taking an occasional sip. I try not to let my mind wander and just focus on the plant and my breathing, and make sure to relax when I notice muscular tension anywhere. That's it! That's meditation, as far as I'm concerned. Totally worth it! My ability to notice stress and shut it off during the day has gone way up. When I get flustered at work I conjure up the dracaena in my mind's eye for an instant and get everything under control.

The bit of literature that turned me on to the "meditation" practice is this: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/06/meditation.htm...

ohmethinks• 16 years ago

I do meditate. It's important though to realize that meditation is not a passive exercise where one sits and just thinks. For me, meditation is about actively letting go and maintaining perspective. It can be painful at times, especially when confronted with certain truths about yourself or situations that you're in.

levifig4• 16 years ago

I know I'll get some heat for this, but here it goes anyway.

Disclaimer: I'm a Christian. Not of those that make the news or your typical "fundamentalist". I read and study the Bible and do my best to be a good person, understanding the world around me yet living as closely as possible from that which God has asked of me, through the Bible. And if you ask, I've been doing pretty good at it while remaining relevant in the world around me, even in the tech community, so often agnostic or even atheist.

Meditation, unlike commonly thought of, is not about "emptying your mind" or "getting in tune with the Universe". Meditation is all about letting a thought, concept or idea completely soak your brain. That allows you a superior cognitive understanding of it. The different areas of your brain will be called to process it from all different angles. From a Christian standpoint, there are a few things that we are called to meditate on: "(…) whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (http://bible.us/Phil4.8.ESV) If you read the previous verses on that passage (4-6), it talks about "rejoicing" and "not worrying". That is only possible when you let your brain soak in the pure, lovely, commendable, excellent, etc thoughts.

Now, I'm not trying to preach or ask you to follow Christ or God. What I'm telling you is that meditation is actively thinking about certain things and those things alone. It's not passive. It's not "emptying your mind". That is relaxation and it's also a good thing. But "emptying your mind" without filling it with the right things can have terrible consequences.

Personally, I'm trying to "disconnect" a little bit more. Less Twitter. Less RSS. Less… Apple rumors. Why? Those are all fine things and I enjoy knowing the latest news on the things that interest me. But living on the "now" has terrible consequences over how I analyze the past and prepare the future. I need to read more books and… meditate on what is important.

Bottom line: take time off, unplug, relax. Read/listen to things that fit the verse I quoted or bring up things that are either troubling or exciting you. Then allow yourself to unwind by letting the silence around you help you focus on what you have soaked your brain in. And I'd say "pray", but that mind be beyond the scope of your question… ;)

epochwolf• 16 years ago

> And I'd say "pray", but that mind be beyond the scope of your question

I happen to be a Christian as well. Do you think of prayer and mediation as separate activities, aspect of the same activity, or identical? (I am withholding my opinion as to not bias your response)

levifig4• 16 years ago

Totally! Before, during and after. Praying goes in tandem alongside meditation. :) I could go on on why that is the whole reason for meditation, but that would be drifting away from the issue towards my beliefs (and I promised I wouldn't get "preachy"), but I do have an opinion. :)

levifig4• 16 years ago

Argh… By "totally" I meant "part of the same activity". :p Not identical but not separate (hence my use of "in tandem"). :)

jcromartie• 16 years ago

I agree with your take on meditation (theologically), but to play devil's advocate: I think the common idea of "emptying your mind" could actually be seen as focusing on something, even if that something is "nothing," or silence.

I've found that one of the best things for "unplugging" is actually Instapaper and other readers. Instead of flitting from link to link and doing shallow reading on HN or Reddit, I tend to send a few things a day to Instapaper so I can focus on them in a better context for reading. I absorb a lot more, and I am less distracted by articles while I'm trying to work, and less distracted by work while I'm trying to read! I'm very thankful for that app.

financegeek2• 16 years ago

Also check out "The Way of the Warrior" classes on meditation for different methods. You don't always have to focus on the breath or try to empty your mind.

levifig4• 16 years ago

I use Instapaper religiously (hah!). The bad thing is how it became a graveyard of oh-so-awesome-must-read articles and less a queue of stuff I do read. :) As to the "emptying your mind", all I said was that if you're focused on "emptying" you might miss what goes on to "fill" it. If your focus is on what you're filling it with, you'll automatically start "emptying" it of what shouldn't be there. :)

thomas112• 16 years ago

Instapaper is fantastic, but focusing on an article has nothing to do with meditation. An article is someone else's thoughts. Meditation is stilling one's thoughts.

initself4• 16 years ago

It's not really helpful to state that meditation is 'all about' anything. There are so many different techniques of meditation. It helps to define a technique and demonstrate in some way what it does.

thinkMoveBe• 16 years ago

"Meditation, unlike commonly thought of, is not about "emptying your mind" or "getting in tune with the Universe". Meditation is all about letting a thought, concept or idea completely soak your brain."

I'd need to see sources to back this up. It's completely the opposite of everything I've read about meditation. You're neither supposed to hold on or actively attempt to push out any given thought while meditating.

For me I found that meditation helps concentration, sleeping and helps me to not cling to the various negative things my brain throws at me on a daily basis.

bkudria• 16 years ago

You said: 'But "emptying your mind" without filling it with the right things can have terrible consequences.'

Can you elaborate?

al3x• 16 years ago

I try to do http://www.natural-stress-relief.com/ meditation at least once a day. When I make the time, it hugely improves my focus, productivity, and general mood.

Yes, that site is sketchy as anything. But the technique works.

ZeroGravitas• 16 years ago

The technique seems (from what little info they give) to be a simplified version of TM. A Harvard Cardiologist also created a simplified version of TM and you can probably get the book The Relaxation Response from a library.

Even better, here's an online step-by-step guide:

http://www.relaxationresponse.org/steps/

jacobroufa• 16 years ago

Hope I can be helpful with this. I believe in active meditation, for lack of a better term. All of my activities I take in stride, paying attention to what I'm doing instead of just walking blindly through life. At least, that's the goal!

I got started on this when I decided to start working for myself actually. Now that I have a say in my schedule, the pressure of "getting there" practically doesn't exist! With that out of the way I only do what I enjoy doing and it allows me to take the time I need. I get to spend time each day on ME because I don't have to answer to THEM.

Good luck mate! Freeing myself from the cyclical struggle was the best thing I've ever done. It wasn't nor is easy but it's worth it for all the benefit I've seen!

getpost• 16 years ago

I started meditating in 2007, and it has completely changed my life. The benefits I've noticed are too numerous to list, but for example:

- My ability to sustain attention and keep a lot of details in mind (say, for writing code) has improved significantly. Before I started my practice, my ability to code was declining with age.

- I'm much less reactive than I used to be. I have more ability to choose what I say and how I act. Of course, I still can and do make unskillful choices.

- Rather than expend energy on judgement, on right vs. wrong, I now focus on skillful vs unskillful. Meditation does change your view of the world. You realize you can't control your mind. So it's not, "I think, therefore I am." It's, "I think, therefore there are thoughts." A healthy relationship to your thoughts removes many obstacles.

The thing about meditation is that you have to actually do it. No amount of knowledge of the various techniques can substitute for actual practice. For this reason, as michael_dorfman says, you really do need a teacher. Don't just read the menu, eat the food.

Buddhist Geeks[1] is a great podcast. It has interviews with various Buddhist and non-dual teachers.

In Berkeley, there's an excellent pay-what-you-want 6 week beginner class offered by James Baraz[2]. The first session is presented without any Buddhist stuff. The remaining sessions have Buddhist content, to elucidate the foundations of practice. Plenty of people who are not interested in Buddhism take the class. Many of James' talks are on DharmaSeed[3], another great source of Buddhist audio.

[1] http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/ [2] http://www.insightberkeley.org/calendar.html [3] http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/86/

neworbit• 16 years ago

Not precisely the same thing, but I do make a point of spending ten minutes a day with either a mug of tea or a glass of wine, simply sitting quietly to watch the world outside. Helps me "change gears".

sudoman• 16 years ago

The way I understand meditation is that it is a way of stepping out of "worlds of becoming" that the mind is constantly entering and wandering around in. (Until things go bad, and then it jumps to another world.) The way I try to deal with this is through the ongoing practice of calming the mind and giving it good mental food. A good source of this food is the blameless pleasure that comes from the ability to settle on a single range of awareness such as the body or the breath, and then to stay there for long periods of time, which is actually more satisfying than it sounds at first. It's inevitable that the mind will keep pulling itself away to harmful yet tempting subjects, so learning how to return peacefully, yet firmly and repeatedly is a skill that I've been trying to develop.

It becomes somewhat obvious as one begins to meditate that this wandering, and the repetition of unskillful mental qualities, is connected with what stress and suffering there is in life. The accompanying insight into these thought worlds and how they keep originating and pulling stress and suffering with them can supposedly allow one to grow dispassionate for those addictions and give them up to at least a greater or lesser extent. It's interesting to see what repeated mental habits the mind thinks are good ideas, simply because it hasn't taken a good look at them since before the age of two. Giving those habits up, even if only temporarily, can be a great relief for the mind.

The tough part about all this is putting in the effort on a regular/continual basis when the initial results can come and go without your really seeing why. Looking at my own practice, I can say it's worth the effort so far, despite the difficulties. When I'm in a tough spot, remembering the moments that I have been at greater ease in the meditation give me reason to keep working in that direction.

If you're interested, here are some talks by my favorite meditation teacher: http://dhammatalks.org/Archive/BasicsCollection/BasicsCollec...

I hope this helps your practice. ;-)

enduser• 16 years ago

Yes, every day with very few exceptions.

I recommend the Golden Flower method, generally, as described in The Secret of the Golden Flower translated by Thomas Cleary. The Wilhelm translation of the same text is broken.

What is significant about meditation is not specific to sitting. Sitting quietly is a way to clear the everyday human mind so that a more profound awareness can arise in awareness. Then one can hold that awareness through all activity, practicing quiet when quiet is appropriate and acting when action is appropriate.

Meditation can be mundane: a way to relax, to enhance concentration, to feel peaceful. Or it can be greater, a way to understand reality in a way that is denied to the analytic mind.

rlbrackett3• 16 years ago

I have been maintaining a steady meditation practice for several months. It is something I have become more and more attached to as I really focus on taking the time to have stillness. A good 20 minutes of simple quietude and deep breathing twice a day definitely helps me be more productive and more focused. The hardest thing is not thinking about all the things you have to do after this, and really just be still.

A practical and pragmatic source on meditation is Lawrence LeShan's "How to Meditate". I found it to be an informative read and provide a lot of places to both start and expand a meditation practice.

From time to time I will write about interesting meditation experiences or just ways of becoming more disciplined in my practice. http://www.putafonit.com if anyone is interested.

Seeing this post made my day, glad to see some love for good old peace and quiet in our busy lives.

Robert

jinfiesto2• 16 years ago

I meditate fairly regularly as well. It's interesting that I've seen meditation characterized very differently in this discussion so far. I've never particularly thought of it as "emptying your mind" or "letting one thought soak into the mind." Uchiyama Roshi characterizes meditation as "opening the hand of thought" and I really feel that this is the most accurate description of meditation for me. We are not rocks after all! To think is part of human nature :)

niclupien• 16 years ago

I use to meditate a lot. Now it's like 2-3 times a week. The difference between when im not meditating is of course a lot of reduced stress. I just have a clear sight of everything happening, the solution to problems are always obvious. This is a great feeling and this is why i enjoy and i encourage you to meditate. What to do is simple, there is plenty of meditation you can find on the web. Just find one you like and do it. Do it a lot like for 2 years and master it. Once you master it, it will be natural for you to get this state of mind, this lucidity, even when you are not meditating.

nhangen• 16 years ago

I do, in fact I built an app to help me do it better (http://zazensuite.com)

The thing about meditation is that it's tough to get past those first few minutes, but when you do, it really helps you feel better.

I learned a lot about the philosophy of meditation from reading books like Be Here Now and The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.

Herring• 16 years ago

Yeah, meditation timers make a huge difference. I'm currently using Zen Timer on iOS.

initself4• 16 years ago

I meditate in the tradition of Vipassana meditation as taught by S.N. Goenka: http://www.dhamma.org/

One can take a 10 day course at many centers around the world to learn the technique from qualified teachers in its purity.

I knew about Vipassana for a long time but I did not attend a 10 day course until I was completely at rock bottom suffering from depression. Once I learned the technique, experiencing reality as-it-is for the first time in my life, it changed me fundamentally from the inside out. It was there that I found out that the results of my poor actions in this lifetime (and possibly others) were stored within my physical body and that I could remove them via observing them objectively without reacting to the sensations that came up via this observation. Having that direct realization meant that I could never go back to the ignorance of not being aware of how the law of karma has direct results upon one's experience of life. After the course had finished, I continued practicing Vipassana morning and evening for one hour each sitting for many months/years and continue to experience profound benefits.

I am much less angry and much more calm, much more adept at handling life's inevitable challenges. When I do find myself reacting strongly to certain situations, I am able to witness my reactions objectively and thereby reduce their negative effects swiftly. Emotions disturbances that used to persist for weeks are now gone in minutes.

I am happy and grounded in the knowledge that I have within my possession a technique to control my mind. That is a very liberating knowledge and worth pursuing for one's self!

ramkalari• 16 years ago

I used to practice meditation but have largely replaced it with Iyengar Yoga. I generally felt very good immediately after a session and I think it helped me in my productivity as well. However, I'm not so sure it helped me when I had to deal with high stress situations. The big problem that I have is when something becomes greater than just a hobby. For instance, when I did yoga for purely health reasons, I felt happier and better. But, when I started doing it with the thought of becoming as good as BKS Iyengar, yoga itself contributed to the stress.

hivelogic• 16 years ago

I've been meditating daily in the Mindfulness (aka Insight) meditation style for about 6 years, and it's completely changed my life and my health.

I've written about this (with a focus on geeks like us) here:

http://hivelogic.com/articles/an-introduction-to-mindfulness... http://hivelogic.com/articles/how-to-start-a-meditation-prac... http://hivelogic.com/articles/meditation-gear

I hope this is useful to you.

RoyG• 16 years ago

It seems that people associate meditation with Zen-style sitting meditation, which seems to be the canonical example. However, there are also standing, walking and moving forms of meditation, as practiced in Tai Chi, Chi Kung, Ba Gua and Yoga.

These practices emphasize mind-body unity and alignment, and focus on the moment, and the results are very similar to sitting meditation, with the added advantage of physical involvement, and less time per session.

I do a Tai Chi short form at different times throughout the day, as a stress break. It only takes 5 minutes or so, and is very helpful in calming the mind and aligning the body. The down side is that the learning curve is long, and a teacher is needed, in order to ensure that ur doing it right.

jomclaughlin• 16 years ago

Thanks for posting this. It was great reading through this and seeing how meditation has helped people retain a little sanity in this crazy world. My take on meditation is heavier on faith than most of what I've read here so I thought I would submit it as an alternative.

I've been practicing zazen on a daily basis for almost twenty years now, and Tai Chi Chuan for almost as long. I am extra lucky in that my wife practices as well, and often we spend whole weekends and even vacations meditating together.

We get most of our inspiration to practice from Uchiyama Roshi, who wrote "Opening the Hand of Thought", and his student Shohaku Okumura who is now teaching in Bloomington, Indiana (and has just published "Realizing Genjokoan" which has also been profoundly helpful to us).

There have been many experiences both painful and joyous, but none of them last, no matter how much I've wanted them to. The lesson of course, is that you must let go, no matter what. According to Uchiyama, the first step to sincere practice is to clarify death. Since none of the stuff we normally value (status, wealth, relationships) stay with us when we meet that final experience, it is obvious that we must let go of them and settle on what is of true value. As a buddhist, what has true value is the true self, which is the self that is connected to all other beings. We practice zazen to let go of our petty self, and allow the true self to manifest, similar to how a Christian's or Muslim's true faith in God could allow God's love to act through them. For me, zazen has always been an act of faith towards the belief that there is this true self, that it is interconnected, and interdependent, and that it is in all of us and that it transcends each of us. This faith allows me to let go, to trust everything to zazen, and unclench however slightly from my selfish preoccupations.

I would say the greatest benefit of meditation for me is this realization that I can let go, that I am not a prisoner of my delusions no matter how persistent they may be, and also this faith in a true self that carries me through difficult circumstances and helps me correct course when my actions fall short of my ideals.

rajivn• 16 years ago

I used to meditate regularly until I decided to take a break a couple of months ago.

On the positive side it has helped me a lot - lowered stress, better sleep, improved communication, creativity and a lot of the things others have already covered. I want to highlight a few things on the not so positive side.

1) lowered drive at work. I had to take more conscious effort to get myself to take action on things when I previously reacted quickly as I was more "on the edge". 2) feeling very emotional / sensitive. I found myself crying to myself a lot more and generally being affected by things around me. 3) Ignoring certain things that needed attention. I think at some point it started to become a crutch. Some relationships needed my attention / action in my personal life and I found myself doing nothing about it because I think in some way I started using meditation almost as some place I could escape into and feel good internally when externally things weren't great.

In spite of all the above, I want to resume my practice soon as I feel that the fact that I can see the issues give me the ability to address them. I highly recommend the site http://lorinroche.com

metageek2• 16 years ago

Just saw this, and it doesn't seem to have come up here. MRI scans show

"Mindfulness meditation training changes brain structure in 8 weeks" http://esciencenews.com/articles/2011/01/21/mindfulness.medi...

Submitted here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2130351

naba• 16 years ago

I have found the Gil Fronsdal lectures mentioned elsewhere in the thread extremely good and helpful. I recommend meditation to people I think would benefit from it, but have difficulty in convincing them to do it, especially when their perception of meditating is "doing nothing".

praveenaj• 16 years ago

Yes. You've found the best and scientifically proved method for relieving stress! Keep it up. I'm a buddhist but you don't need to be like me to practice this. I can recommend you the "breathing meditation" (anapanasathi) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKFl4E3YhlI

Ask HN: Do you meditate? How/Why?

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