Cryptocurrency Startup School

https://events.a16z.com/cryptostartupschool/

by yarapavan • 7 years ago

125 149 7 years ago

events.a16z.com

egloo• 7 years ago

A startup school for a singular technical solution that has now gone years without any demonstrable killer app and which faces immense scaling and regulatory hurdles seems like putting the cart well before the horse here.

I very much doubt that the key roadblock to realizing the crypto dream has been the lack of availability of a startup school around it.

rapsey7• 7 years ago

They are probably desperate to prevent all their investments in the crypto sector to fizzle out. A scenario more likely by the day.

rolltiide2• 7 years ago

As computers branched out from the math discipline very quickly there was also a need for formal education that only focused on computers. Without a shared advanced level of understanding it made collaboration all the more difficult, and people’s investments in the space all the more impossible.

It is a time tested strategy. It doesn't matter if it doesn't pan out, it is just as good if they all synthesize the idea that this is not economical for anyone and conclude not to pursue this technology anymore. The body of work will still be a worthwhile experiment. But now imagine if they did increase the utility of this technology.

ackbar03• 7 years ago

Agreed, this one's a head scratcher

tempsy• 7 years ago

Why is it a head scratcher? They’ve made some of the bigger bets in crypto and have a dedicated crypto team, so they have every incentive to invest in training or teaching the next gen of crypto founders.

forgingahead• 7 years ago

Perhaps you're right, but so what? If they're funding it, and folks are interested in trying it out, what's the worst that can happen? Best case some new innovation comes out, worse case they end up back where they started. Journey and not the destination and all that.

Nursie7• 7 years ago

Worst case is it adds to the wasteful hype-train and significant portions of the tech industry continue to be way-layed by a shiny boondoggle with get-rich-quick connotations.

krzkaczor2• 7 years ago

I work in crypto space myself and I can tell that this space is really interesting. Both technical and business challenges are quite unique.

Here's just a quick recap of different, new business models https://medium.com/abridged-io/web3-business-models-in-the-w...

IMO things like DeFi are finally a good use case for blockchain.

So yeah, I think this a good idea to create a startup school focused on new, different area witch can disrupt the finance sector.

Disclaimer: I work for MakerDAO.

rapsey7• 7 years ago

No one ever said the space is not interesting. It's just goes against human nature and how the world operates.

The difference between a failed idea and a successful one is very often simply timing. Things that were complete nonsense in the dot com bubble are billion dollar businesses now. The crypto space is not for this time (imo).

Stevvo3• 7 years ago

Thank you for TypeChain, it's great. I remember last year, I got Gitcoin to give you some free money to put up bounties.

One reason I'm not building on ethereum right now, is you have no contact with customers/users, because for 90% of the projects, there aren't any. In my other software projects, you are talking with customers every week, it is hugely helpful.

What MakerDAO are doing is awesome; DAI is my digital cash.

arcticbull16• 7 years ago

...a list of new business models zero of which have shown an iota (pardon the pun) of traction in a decade. I feel the list of crazy startup ideas circulating on r/wallstreetbets is as valuable.

The technical and scaling problems are all self imposed due to leveraging a woefully inadequate storage mechanism. It’s basically coal-powered banking.

theboywho5• 7 years ago

One of Blockchain's killer apps is...Bitcoin. There is no need to talk about "the crypto dream", people are using what they find useful (coinbase is currently #5 top YC company), and I personally see it inevitable that everything in banking/finance will move to a decentralized model, with smart contracts as a driving force, because of autonomy.

Humans haven't really evolved much from say other Apes (or many more other animals) in the way a group is organised. We haven't yet discovered a way to organise a group without the need for a central entity (an alpha male, a government, central banks, etc.)

Smart contracts allowing for autonomous organisations might well be the first time a species is organising itself without a central entity.

Stevvo3• 7 years ago

Smart Contracts are far more capable on Ethereum, so I don't see Bitcoin as the killer app.

paulgb3• 7 years ago

We haven't yet discovered a way to organise a group without the need for a central entity (an alpha male, a government, central banks, etc.)

Markets (at least, free markets) are exactly a way of organizing a group without the need for a central authority.

democracy2• 7 years ago

You saying like that is a bad thing, but in fact centralisation is something that let us survive through wars, hunger and other hardships.

Nursie7• 7 years ago

I personally see it inevitable that everything in banking/finance will move to a decentralized model, with smart contracts as a driving force, because of autonomy.

People don't want autonomy.

I don't want to be my own bank.

My bank is insured, they are secure, they provide me with a ton of services, and there is an identifiable party to go to if it all goes wrong, or if liability needs to be established.

This idea that decentralisation is amazing because people can free themselves from the shackles of financial institutions is just all backwards when you start to look at what those entities actually provide.

And this -

Smart contracts allowing for autonomous organisations might well be the first time a species is organising itself without a central entity.

Is just meaningless utopianism.

arcticbull16• 7 years ago

Centralization and trust are massive efficiencies as demonstrated by the sheer unparalleled inefficiency of proof of work chains. It blows my mind that hipsters refuse to use single-use straws and try and pay with bitcoin which yields thousands of times as much CO2 in the atmosphere as the straw.

1 bitcoin transaction is 607kWh (is 288kgCO2 and 85g of ewaste). That’s enough spent power to drive a Tesla from SF to San Jose, round trip. Twice. 20 days power consumption for the average US home. At that rate you may as well take physical dollars and drive them to San Jose.

electic• 7 years ago

There will never be a singular killer app for crypto. Just like there isn't a killer app for USD or Gold. It is the aggregate adoption, as a transfer of value, across numerous use cases that makes any currency valued.

paulgb3• 7 years ago

How about a lower bar, then: has blockchain/crypto tech ever been demonstrated to be economically viable for anything besides a store of value? There has been a ton of hype about e.g. Cryptokitties but it seems to follow a hype and bust cycle every single time.

buboard6• 7 years ago

making bitcoin the digital gold of our age is quite a killer app i d say

chrisseaton• 7 years ago

a singular technical solution that has now gone years without any demonstrable killer app

But cryptography underpins all the killer apps! If you need to communicate, then you need cryptography.

simias3• 7 years ago

This is about cryptocurrencies, not cryptography.

elmar• 7 years ago

Interesting to see A16Z trying to get on the really early investing as YC is going upstream to latter investing.

biolurker12• 7 years ago

there are very many comments like yours for years now. Actually the killer app is Bitcoin because billions are being transacted every day in value but still arguing about blockchain it seems that literally all of the tech leaders of our time agree the technology is sound, promising and the future. Literally everyone (I can list names here too). The thing is that many cowboys didn't get cars at first..

stale20024• 7 years ago

without any demonstrable killer app

It seems like crypto currencies have worked pretty well for sending censorship resistant transactions.

This is demonstrated by, for whatever reason, cryptocurrency transactions have generally been censored much less often when compared to, say, bank or credit card transactions.

lawnchair_larry• 7 years ago

What does A16Z know about cryptography?

Noughmad• 7 years ago

The word "crypto" is not about cryptography. It's about useless digital currencies.

fasicle• 7 years ago

They have been talking about it and investing in crypto companies for a while.

https://a16z.com/crypto/

donkeyd4• 7 years ago

I think 'blockchain' would've been a much better name for this page. Then again, their target market might be people who have heard 'crypto' on the news, not people who know what blockchain is.

shp0ngle• 7 years ago

"crypto" means "blockchain".

buboard6• 7 years ago

i can only assume they employ some cryptographers among their ranks. they invested in coinbase and other cryptocoin companies

boffinism• 7 years ago

Crypto... Graphy? Currency? Coccus?

jchallis• 7 years ago

A Cryptococcus school would be worth something. Not enough tech innovation in opportunistic infections!

TheSpiceIsLife• 7 years ago

Aren’t all infections opportunistic and disruptive?

Aren’t all VCs opportunistic and disruptive?

Edit: Maybe we need Crypto Capitalism

simias3• 7 years ago

It wasn't clear to me either at first but it's cryptocurrency, quite disappointingly I might add.

donkeyd4• 7 years ago

Good question, using this abbreviation for everything that starts with 'crypto' is just dumb. On Wikipedia, the crypto page is enormous:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto

OJFord• 7 years ago

Pretty cryptic, a crypto title indeed.

dang• 7 years ago

We put the currency in cryptocurrency above.

Cakez0r• 7 years ago

They are referring to blockchains, not cryptography.

Dude2029• 7 years ago

"Free" because the product is you!

bernardlunn• 7 years ago

What is it about HN people and negativity about Crypto? Want a killer app? Just look at Bitcoin. Want to find people who use Bitcoin? Move out of your world and visit countries with failing currencies.

fcolas3• 7 years ago

Nursie7• 7 years ago

Move out of your world and visit countries with failing currencies.

None of whom use or would actually benefit from buying into your cryptocurrency of choice.

donkeyd4• 7 years ago

Can you give me a couple of concrete examples? Especially large scale usage that actually impacts the value of Bitcoin? I currently see value in it only as an investment for people with FOMO.

I visited Haiti and over there, people just use their phones to pay each other through their telecom provider, or they use USD. None of them use Bitcoin, they're not even aware it's a thing.

tastroder• 7 years ago

They're likely talking about Venezuela, BTC usage by some shops and charities there made quite a bit of media this year, turning it into a popular meme for the cryptocurrency narrative that isn't otherwise backed by the real world.

stale20024• 7 years ago

Sending censorship resistant transactions. Crypto transactions are generally censored much less often than things like bank or credit card transactions.

democracy2• 7 years ago

Oh please. As a former citizen of a country where the name of a local currency was used for jokes only, I can assure you - noone in their right mind would exchange the local awful shit currency for any of the existing cryptocurrencies. People would rather buy 5 fridges and three tv-screens or euro/dollars (and there is always black market in the toughest of the toughest dictatorships out there) anytime. When I was reading Mr. Antonopoulos about giving advice to his mother in Greece to invest in Bitcoin I was laughing like crazy (2018, bitcoin falling fast and steady).

There are two great lies (dreams??) crypto shills: 1) replacement of the 3rd world country dying currencies and 2) 3rd world country unbanked people desperately waiting for someone to "bank" them.

rolltiide2• 7 years ago

I like to see more formal-ish education in this space.

Right now the distributed ledger and digital asset education is either extremely technical documents OR youtubers glossing over everything.

A lot of the grifters aren't speaking a common tongue and it unnecessarily increases the transaction cost of coordinating expertise.

cpheimbach• 7 years ago

Lesson 1: Don't do it.

svrtknst• 7 years ago

Seems interesting, and I'll probably check it out. Been looking (albeit not very hard) for a neat entry into the blockchain field, this might be it.

Doubtless there are other excellent resources, this timed it pretty well for me.

My biggest gripe so far is that I had to turn off the contnet blocking in Firefox for the e-mail field to show up...

gcatalfamo• 7 years ago

I'd rather have one on ML startups

chx• 7 years ago

Well, crypto is a scam and you better be on the side which gets rich from it.

Already in 2015 Washington Post summed it up:

- Hey, do you want to hear about the future? It's a digital currency called Bitcoin that lets you spend or move your money online without paying any fees.
- Sounds great. How does it do that?
- Well, Bitcoin saves you money by making transactions irreversible.
- So ... if I get scammed, I got scammed? There's nothing I can do about it?
- Yes.
- Okay, but is it at least easy to use?
- The thing is, I don't actually use it. I just hoard it. I'm waiting for some greater fools to push up the price by using theirs.
- Oh.
- Yeah. So you should buy some Bitcoins and use yours.

Preston Byrne's great post two years later https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/ suggested to call it a Nakamoto scheme, drawing parallels to chain distribution schemes:

As used herein a “chain distributor scheme” is a sales device whereby a person, upon condition that he make an investment, is granted a license or right to solicit or recruit for profit or economic gain one or more additional persons who are also granted such license or right upon condition of making an investment and may further perpetuate the chain of persons who are granted such license or right upon such condition.

What is amazing in this new kind of scam is the lack of central scammers and certain actors can easily exploit the culpability of ordinary people. That's what this is, setting up various vehicles to separate fools from their money, and, of course, having a stake in the operation which does the separation. By all means this should be illegal and eventually it will be. Already Facebook's Libra attempt was met by a very stern no by financial regulators in various European countries. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-cryptocurrency-f...

lbacaj• 7 years ago

As an engineer in love with Crypto I figured I would try to build something with it so I put a little side project together, something easy and simple a way you could earn cashback in the form of crypto for shopping online. I went ahead did the integrations with the major affiliate networks, built the whole backend, built the infrastructure for the crypto side. Including creating temporary wallets that people could chose to move their crypto off of etc, ultimately it would cost something like 5 dollars to issue someone 5 dollars. It might be different now but basically most folks pushing the technology have never actually tried to do anything with it.

I came to realize that this whole thing is only useful for one or two use cases maximum. It's terrible for micro transactions, terrible for any sort of scale, and while we all love the idea of it this is like trying to do the iPhone in the 1980's... we are at least 20-30 years a way from something useful.

throw03172019• 7 years ago

Are you interested in selling your code?

easymovet2• 7 years ago

Lolli does this by only paying out when you accrue enough, and possibly uses the lightning network for payout which makes micro transactions of bitcoin much cheaper. Pei, does this as well.

_7fvc3• 7 years ago

Cryptocurrency space is focusing on the wrong problems. Bitcoin original goal is to create a digital currency that people can use. We're not even close to achieve that goal. But the space is sidetracked into ugly technical wars, elaborate and complicated financial engineering.

There are some fundamental questions that have not been answered. If you are starting, you should look at these.

- How do we make Bitcoin/crypto easier for normal people to use? I think a decent solution so far is the CashApp. But it's only useful for stacking sats.

- How do we make cryptocurrency usable for transactions? Bitcoin volatility makes transaction really hard. I think the answer is new experimentations and tweaks to Bitcoin monetary policy. I outline the problem in this article. https://bitflate.org/post/2019/08/26/bitcoin-missing-link-to...

breck4• 7 years ago

create a digital currency that people can use.

I 100% agree. I love the core ideas, but it's not really useable yet beyond a few (important) use cases. I think the problem is trust. I first got in Bitcoin at $6 and Ethereum at $10. I got out way too early to retire (hence why I bought the domain sellnothing.com, to remind myself of an important lesson), but I got out because I realized the system was too complex and I didn't understand it all, and so felt like the sucker at the poker table.

Our Tree Notation I believe is the solution to making a crypto currency people could trust. You could build a Tree Language for a blockchain that is: 0 syntax. 0 unnecessary complexity. 100% of the capability. No BS. It would look something like this:

    transaction
     id lerledsfa334
     receiver abc432
     sender fslkm324
     amount 2.22

The key advantage of Tree Notation is countable complexity. You could build a system that is very easy to audit and the community could easily reject any unnecessary complexity, which I think is where corruption goes to hide--in unnecessary complexity.

I've got my hands full with Tree Notation applications in medical research and data science, but I really hope someone applies it to the digital currency space, and I'd be happy to assist time permitting. https://treenotation.org or breck@treenotation.org

thefounder3• 7 years ago

Wtf are you talking about? Digital currencies don't "work" because they are volatile not because they lack a Tree Notation strategy. They have become an speculative investment/gambling rather than a method of payment.

short_sells_poo• 7 years ago

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Bitcoin so far hasn't delivered (I refrain from calling it a failure) on it's primary premise: being a currency. People touting that there are some hundreds of thousands of transactions a day miss the point. Those numbers are absolutely puny for something that is meant to be a currency.

The unfortunate story here is that a technically and fundamentally interesting idea has been turned into a total cesspit by the influx of money and greed before it could escape it's roots of ideological purity and adapt to the realities of human society.

The starry eyed technologists who were unfortunately not well equipped for the gnarly world of finance got replaced by financially better informed "businessmen" with shady motives or outright frauds.

In the eyes of the broader market, cryptocurrencies have been tainted by black market dealings, non-stop high profile scams, excessive volatility, lack of liquidity and near-zero useful acceptance for retail transactions. I won't even mention the large number of zero value-added ideas that offer nothing beyond what could also be done without blockchain, but just wanted along for the ride. These further diluted the already thin trust.

As much as I shudder at the idea of a Big Tech Co. launching a cryptocurrency, perhaps that'd would have been the one winning shot that the concept had about 2-3 years ago. If Googlecoin or Facebookcoin materialized before either the tech companies or the concept of cryptocurrencies turned into demons, some good could've actually materialized.

Am I too jaded here? Maybe. But after so many years and no killer concept materializing, one has to start asking questions. The other "fads" of the last decade (AI, VR/AR, EV, etc..) actually continue to deliver ever more amazing innovations, putting the stagnation of crypto into a rather stark contrast.

buboard6• 7 years ago

I d say most of the hurdles are regulatory. Bitcoin has become digital gold - a place to store large amounts as a hedge and nothing more. Cryptocurrency will not take the place of visa payments because there s no insurance, its slow etc. All the uses where cryptocurrency would shine and visa cannot do (e.g. quick anonymous tips for your comment) are illegal. So we re stuck until either the regulatory framework or national currencies fall apart.

How do we make Bitcoin/crypto easier for normal people to use?

Pay people with bitcoin. This is #1. People don't have a problem figuring out even complex systems if there 's money involved (And that's a good thing)

Bitcoin volatility makes transaction really hard.

Not sure if that's really an issue if cryptos were being used daily. They are instantly convertible to other cryptos or stablecoins, therefore the volatility would quickly go down if people used them in real life. People would exchange them for the most stable currencies only, because people don't like to see their coins devalued. We see lots of volatility today because most bitcoin big players got them by sheer luck / being there first so they treat it as casino chips; its not "a hard day's work" earnings.

bhl• 7 years ago

Not sure if the idea that Bitcoin acts as an hedge has much weight considering it’s never been tested in a first world economic downturn; arguably, it has worked in third world countries which face high inflation and have a lack of public confidence in monetary policy. But where is the majority of Bitcoin held, in the former or latter?

_7fvc3• 7 years ago

Pay people with bitcoin.

I don't get paid in bitcoin. How do I pay people with bitcoin? :)

I think regulation concern is overrated in crypto, at least, with Bitcoin. Crypto complaint about regulation is mainly rooted in libertarian politics. If you are a cryptocurrency and you want to interface with fiat currencies, you need to comply with fiat regulation. KYC is painful but it is necessary. It even helps reduce fraud.

You can't throw your crypto no regulation gauntlet at fiat and demand them to comply to your game. It's crypto wanting to play the fiat game, not the other way around. Currently, there are many ways to on-ramp from fiat to crypto in the US. There's no government interference. If Bitcoin is an asset, Store of Value, you need to be taxed as asset. You can't do both currency and asset thing.

tuesdayrain3• 7 years ago

A major benefit of cryptocurrencies is the inability to chargeback. Obviously this is not desirable in 100% of situations, but it is undeniably a necessary niche. This is something streamers and other public figures constantly have to worry about, since some people find it amusing to donate thousands of dollars and then chargeback months later.

kerkeslager2• 7 years ago

Bitcoin original goal is to create a digital currency that people can use. We're not even close to achieve that goal.

I disagree. Cryptocurrency is de facto being used as a currency quite successfully by lots of people. Sure, there are technical hurdles that prevent people who don't really have any need for a decentralized currency from using it. But none of those hurdles are so challenging that people can't use it if they really need it. Plenty of people have used cryptocurrency to move money across borders, make purchases that are illegal under oppressive regimes, etc., and not all of those were technical users. There aren't technical hurdles so high that someone who wants to buy drugs online can't do it with enough effort, for example.

Hacker News types will point to the failure of cryptocurrency to emerge as a competitor to traditional currencies within the regulated market, but that's precisely what you'd expect: cryptocurrencies hamper regulation, so of course there will be resistance from the regulated market. But don't mistake that for failure: cryptocurrencies have created whole markets and flows of value effectively didn't exist before.

To be clear, here's what I'm NOT saying:

1. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement in the user experience. There is.

2. I'm also not saying that the effects of cryptocurrency are necessarily positive. That remains to be seen.

tuesdayrain3• 7 years ago

I would much rather use stablecoins such as Dai for spending instead of trying to tweak Bitcoin's monetary policy.

kerkeslager2• 7 years ago

The greatest success of Bitcoin is that no one has yet succeeded in turning it into a rent-seeking platform.

Cryptocurrency Startup School

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