Ask HN: Developers with ADHD/ADD, how do you cope?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19989627

by raptorraver • 7 years ago

58 66 7 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I'm a junior developer and in a process to get ADD-diagnosis.

I find it very hard to stay focused at work, especially if the task in hand isn't something I'm passionate about. Even bigger problem I'm facing is that it's almost impossible to stay aware on what we are discussing in the meetings. My mind just constantly wanders away from the subject and this leads to embarassing moments and me missing crucial knowledge about the project.

I'm looking for practical tips and personal experiences on how you manage to stay productive and focused during work day.

Thanks in advance!

gaspoweredcat3• 7 years ago

the most helpful thing youll do is getting that diagnosis and finding the medication that suits you which was a game changer for me (initially i tried methylphenidate (ritalin) but it was a little too "up and down" for me, it seemed to tail off before my next dose was due but i then switched to lisdexamphetamine (Elvanse/Vyvanse) which has proven incredibly effective)

before this i generally got through by having multiple tasks on the go at once, pick a reasonably simple task and a complex one and regularly drop from the complex task to the easier one, a good example for me is updating my commenting on other bits as im pretty terrible at adding it as i go, i cant say this will work for you but it helped me.

the only other thing i can suggest is to try and reduce your possible distractions for which headphones are helpful ideally with instrumental music, background conversations and words can trigger your mind to go off on a different path

basically try and reduce things that may distract you and try and keep other tasks ready so that if you do get distracted youll fall onto other work which keeps you productive but as i said before i cant promise these tricks will work for you as everyone finds different coping mechanisms work for them

jonhendry183• 7 years ago

"(initially i tried methylphenidate (ritalin) but it was a little too "up and down" for me, it seemed to tail off before my next dose was due but i then switched to lisdexamphetamine (Elvanse/Vyvanse) which has proven incredibly effective)"

As an example of how Your Mileage May Vary, methylphenidate works well for me, but Vyvanse made my porn viewing skyrocket.

kls6• 7 years ago

Agreed Adderall (and to a lesser extent Ritalin) turns me into a raging nympho but also made certain parts not work (pretty crappy biological joke if you ask me), due to the fact that Adderall is a blend of both left and right amphetamines. The left amphetamines stimulate the peripheral nervous system which is why some may experience sexual side effects like impotence as well as more cardiovascular side effects. As well as provoke panic attacks in people with anxiety disorders (which I fall into).

My doc switched me to Desoxyn and it's night and day, it is like I have a laser in my mind and can focus it on anything I decide to focus it on. It has far less of that Adderall punch to the back of the head when it kicks in, and more of the calming but alert effect that one gets from the right handed amphetamines in Adderall. I cannot understand for the life of me why Desoxyn is not the front line medicine for ADD and ADHD

It took a long time for me to get a proper diagnosis as sometime ADD can look like depression because of the lack of emotional control as well as just plain beating yourself up for not getting stuff done and not being able to get started. But for me it has been a life change and for the better.

I started abusing nicotine at and early age and after that any time I would quit I would have a fog in my head that never went away (quit for 5 years once and had it every day). I eventually resigned to the fact that maybe I just permanently damaged my brain and now it would never function correctly in the absence of nicotine. Little did I know I was self medication and just did not realize that the fog was baseline me. With proper diagnosis and medication I can forgo nicotine and I am still completely clear. The meds make me 10x clearer than nicotine ever did.

ThrowawayP• 7 years ago

lisdexamphetamine

Out of curiosity, for those who use ADHD/ADD medications like this, do you get insomnia as a side effect and, if so, how do you deal with it?

The one time I was prescribed this type of medication, I was still terribly unfocused during the day because I was barely getting any sleep even after lowering the dosage considerably.

kls6• 7 years ago

I never take my medication after 1PM, I get up early and take my first dose and then take my second dose around 12-1. Every once in a while I will get insomnia and for that I generally just take a half of one of my anti-anxiety pills or take a small dose of over the counter zzzquil. The insomnia is worse in the beginning at some points, now days I can be right in the peak of my dose and if I choose to, I can take a nap.

McWobbleston2• 7 years ago

Melatonin can help the nights you're struggling to fall asleep, but personally Ritalin made a huge difference because of the short half life

When I was on Adderall I found it very helpful to take the medication after a large early lunch (hopefully 11am or earlier)

gaspoweredcat3• 7 years ago

no insomnia for me, i take my dose in the morning but i sleep better since going on them rather than worse

codesternews• 7 years ago

What are actual symptoms of ADHD/ADD? How do you know you have ADHD?

I am asking because I read recently ADHD is very difficult to detect.

anextomp• 7 years ago

It's similar to colourblindness, in that it's really hard to tell because it's all you've ever known. Your best bet is probably to try an online test and go to see a doctor if it suggests there could be something there.

This one looks good: https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-symptoms-test-adults/

raptorraver2• 7 years ago

Like the other reply mentions - it's quite hard to tell. I've long had a feeling there's something wrong in me. The other week I ran into an ADD-test (https://totallyadd.com/do-i-have-add/) and gave it a try. I got 17/18. After some research and long discussions with my wife I contacted a doctor who after discussing with me sent me to see a psychologist.

schwurb4• 7 years ago

How do you know you have ADHD?

That is best found out by a multi-angle approach including brain images, intelligence tests, patient history, family history, etc...

Seeing a doctor is critical because a) it is easy to misdiagnose oneself and b) there are some problems that lead to similar symptoms as AD(H)D, i.e. bipolar, problems with your thyroid gland, vitamin deficit, trauma and so on, so it is also important to exclude these.

losthobbies• 7 years ago

To be honest this could be me, or I'm guessing, a lot of people. It's hard to stay focused when you are not interested in something.

A quick win might be to take notes or ask questions and participate in the meeting.

schwurb4• 7 years ago

Don't mistake that normal occurrence for anything aching to ADD tho. Saying "I got a little bit ADD because I something loose focus when I find something boring" is equivalent to saying "I got a little bit cancer because sometimes my stomach hurts".

charlesju• 7 years ago

I also have this problem. Here are some tips I've found useful.

-- When possible, do things that you're passionate about. Develop your passions and try to work within those constraints.

-- Have a single monitor

-- Create a TODO list. Also start the day or working session with planning.

-- When tackling new problems, try to do the easiest tasks first to build momentum, before tackling harder tasks

-- Break down tasks into the smallest components and do them one at a time

-- Give yourself a reward for doing a small section of tasks (ie. watch a YT video)

-- Develop your self confidence and create a strong passion for competition, that's driven me past a lot of my attention problems

wareotie• 7 years ago

In my case, I didn't find a medication that suits me, but I was diagnostic recently so it's an ongoing process.

The only two things that (almost) works for me at this moment are a notebook (I use a modified version of bullet journal) and meditation (I use headspace).

Apart from that: sleep. That helps with the weird depression-like mood I always have.

azeirah2• 7 years ago

Lists, logs, writing, post-its, Todo lists etcetcetc.

I tend to forget stuff even while I'm doing it, so it helps a million if what I'm doing is written on a Post-It right in front of me.

Also, to keep track of tasks, problems, todos etc, I have a huge text file that is bound to the ctrl-` keybinding (autohotkey script opens a file in sublime text).

I think the most important thing is to externalize your mind into your environment, you might forget, but your table or text files won't.

Also, make sure to watch Russel Barkley. This man is literally ADHD Jesus. https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0

anoncake7• 7 years ago

Russel Barkley

Some of his claims are questionable. AFAIR he claims that:

- ADHD has no advantages

- ADHD has a negative effect on working memory

- ADHD has no negative effect on intelligence

Since working memory is a factor in intelligence, one of these statements must be false.

His political views are also interesting.

Barkley is a right-wing libertarian. He deeply believes in "Limited government, individual rights, freedom of speech and association, and the nonaggression principle (no one, including the government, has a right to initiate force or fraud against another), and private property rights". He has attacked "the leftist, social democratic or socialist leanings of Facebook's founder and most mainstream media outlets".[35]

I'm not mentioning this to discredit him or because I think you should judge a psychologists by his political views. But I've always associated these views with the assumption that poor people are generally poor not because they don't have the skills, self-discipline etc. needed to be successful but because they are lazy and thus don't deserve welfare. If Barkley, an ADHD researcher, actually believes that he's very good at tolerating cognitive dissonance.

vibrato3• 7 years ago

You mention this ad hominem so you can extrapolate beliefs that may be completely fabricated.

azeirah2• 7 years ago

I have never looked into his political beliefs, and I don't care for it either. He has been a massive help for me in managing my symptoms, and helping me see how my brain works, and why I keep falling on my head in certain areas.

I also think it's important to mention, Barkley has a very large emotional stake in his research, his brother had ADHD, and he died in a car accident.

I won't try to guess the influence of this incident on Barkley, but I can only think that Barkley "hates" ADHD for this reason (ie, ADHD has no advantages), and I think it becomes clearer why he is so immensely focused on the negative aspects of ADHD.

I won't comment on his stance on intelligence or memory.

schwurb4• 7 years ago

Since working memory is a factor in intelligence, one of these statements must be false.

That is quite easy to reconcile: "ADHD has no negative effect on intelligence, when accounting for the impaired working memory". It is something you do all the time in psychology, you observe effects in presence or absence of other effects. Psychologists are smart enough to ask questions like "Now that we know that ADHD impairs working memory, does it further impair other factors of intelligence?" The answer seems to be no - which is important, because it implies that improvements in the working memory transition well into improvements in intelligence.

I give you the benefit of doubt here, but I'd wager that most of the non-academic folk that Dr. Barkley communicates with is intuitively aware of what I wrote above and able to form the right mental picture.

RandomInteger4• 7 years ago

Pro-Tip: when you get a medication, make sure you're prepared to be doing something productive after you take it, otherwise you may end up browsing social media with a sense of focus like never before.

Also, invest time in learning how to stay hydrated. I got terrible dry mouth when I took adderall.

Also also, set alarms during productivity time to get up and walk around otherwise you will forget. For me, this caused me to get swelling in my lower legs a bit, which I think was due to a combination of sitting and no longer tapping my feet.

packetpirate• 7 years ago

I don't take any medication for it, but music can help, and over the years, I've gotten better at focusing by simply willing myself to do it. There are definitely a lot of days when I'll end up blankly staring at my screen for an hour while my mind runs through a bunch of unrelated information, but I'm stubborn and have been able to push through this the majority of the time.

I also try to always write down a task so I don't forget it later. For my own personal projects, I like to use Trello to organize my tasks and plan out what I need to work on for the next release.

I can definitely understand the difficulty to focus on something you're not interested in. Maybe you could try listening to a podcast or something about something you ARE interested in while working? Depends on how bad the ADD is, because for me, I would end up completely focusing on that and tuning out my actual work.

Also, if you're seriously trying to work on something and it's usually an issue for you, put your phone somewhere where you won't be constantly reaching for it.

TheLegace• 7 years ago

Neurofeedback training has been very useful that I even forget that I have ADHD. Take a look at this post if interested.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19984126

belril• 7 years ago

First off: Diagnosis and medication access is one thing, but maintenance is another key — find a psychiatrist or physician who you get on with well and can work with for a good long while.

Other tips:

* Use hyper-focus when you have it, to the best of your ability. I think of it like a gift from my brain, and I try to get the most mileage out of it as possible, even if the task I’m working on isn’t top priority.

* Focus on building good habits. I find it’s a way to trick my brain into doing things that are good for me.

* For meetings, have someone(s) who you can check in with about what’s been discussed. Ideally, someone who you can say “hey, I didn’t quite follow what happened — what are the key points?”

* Strong agreement with other folks on using task management systems. My general recommendation is to find one you like (Getting Things Done is my favorite, but there are no shortage of others) try it out for a good long while (2+ months), and slowly adapt it to your personal needs.

* Talk to your people manager about work you’ve been assigned to that you’re not interested in. Sometimes you’re really needed in a particular area and other times you’re not. If you express your preferences for particular types of work, you’re more likely to get it.

RenRav• 7 years ago

If you're not taking medication like adderal or ritalin, or you can't be bothered to receive a diagnosis, try caffeine and perhaps look into nootropics. I haven't taken medication since I graduated school and could decide for myself, but the caffeine and nootropics work really well. You might need music or some sort of background noise that won't distract you. Simple checklists can help you move through daily tasks. You also need to be interested in whatever you're doing to help you focus. If your job doesn't interest you, it will be rough.

I think there are a few varieties of attention deficit, I don't know anything about being physically hyperactive, just the inattentive part.

teddyc• 7 years ago

Taking notes in meetings can help you stay focused.

You can also record meetings on your phone for reference later.

Lots of other good suggestions here too.

plantel• 7 years ago

To everyone talking about medication in this thread:

I have always had ADHD but was intelligent enough to get by through my schooling with bad study habits. I "got away" with it so to speak, with cramming at the last minute and being able to retain lots of information while my peers had to put more dedication into it. It seemed up front like a solution but in reality I was only cheating myself.

Once I got out into real software development world, I just couldnt sit down at a screen for all the hours I needed to without wandering away, so I got an official diagnosis of ADHD and a perscription of Vyvanse.

I spent 5 years going off and on the medication. There is nothing else but vyvanse that will let me sit down and churn out code for hours and hours on end, but it makes your mental state absolute hell and you will burn out. It was a short sighted solution and the amphetamine dependency and withdrawls I experienced. When I finally managed to quit I was such a mental mess I had to take 6 weeks away from work with mood swings.

Additionally to note, the amphetamines make it more difficult to learn new thing but make it easier to churn out what you already know, which isn't the most effective thing in our field.

In the end, what do I use now to medicate? Intense physical excersize. Daily. Lots of it. Tire out your body. Seriously. Fight against every one of your urges to lose focus and stay on task for generated short bursts then switch tasks and environments.

There is not feeling in the world better than being able to be productive without amphetamines after feeling you 'need' them because you 'have ADHD'.

rootbear• 7 years ago

I was on Vyvanse for a while and found it somewhat helpful, but it was causing me to grind my teeth and that was an unacceptable side effect. Sadly, I haven't found an effective substitute so far. I need to try exercise, I currently don't get much and I know it's helpful. Meditation is also an option.

ryanianian• 7 years ago

There are a large number of different medications that have very different side-effects and effectiveness for different people. If Vyvanse doesn't work for you, talk about what "not working" means to you with your doctor; a good doctor can use that data to inform the decision about what other medications to try.

Personally I've been on adderall for the better part of 20 years. I went through a bunch of different meds after getting a diagnosis and I regularly try other medicaitons (once a year or so) to see if other medications may work better (your body changes over time as does your tolerances).

If you can get by without medication then that's great. For those of us that can't, there is a large number of options.

This video series taught me a lot about my own condition: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wW...

jimkri• 7 years ago

This is something I'm still learning how to cope with. I've been diagnosed with ADHD since 2nd grade and have been taking Adderall since then. As of recently I started meditating and working on being more mindful, basically I was trying to get out of my head and stop the constant self-talk that was doing more harm and good. For the first time in a couple years I just stopped taking the medicine for 3 months because I wanted to see how I would do, and it really put things in perspective for me. I learned that I was able to really control my focus and keep working at something when I didn't want to, but I still had a really hard time getting into my work. It would take me much longer to absorb whatever I'm working on and get after it. Sorry for the rant, but here are somethings that have really helped me.

- Eat a healthy diet

- Work out regularly - Cardio helps start the day and get the blood flowing & weight lifting helps get out any aggression I may have.

- Try using a guided meditation app. This really helps me start the day off on the right foot, it lets you understand how you are feeling and where you mind is at and it gives you the chance to reset. The meditation has also helped me with knowing when I'm thinking and not paying attention to something. Waking up with Sam Harris is the app I use and it has been amazing.

- Set an intention for what you want to do that day. THIS. THIS. Has really helped me stay focused, I know what I want to do and I try to stay on course.

- Talk with a Doctor about the medication and don't settle on the first one. Test them out and see what works best for you. I've been on Adderall all my life and I'm going to talk to my doctor soon about switching to something that won't zombify me so much.

- Don't try to do too much. I constantly come up with new ideas and things I want to start doing, but I'm not always realistic about getting them done, so when I don't do them I feel like I failed. Lately I've been thinking about the idea and whether the idea is actually realistic and something that I will continue to do or is this something that is just a waste of my time and energy.

I enjoy talking about ADHD, most of my comments have been on the topic so if you ever want to talk more reach out! Also don't be hard on yourself for not being able to pay attention, once you start noticing your not paying attention, just begin again.

nestorherre• 7 years ago

I can't write as detailed as I'd like to since I'm at work atm, but I'm a firm believer that a lot of diseases diagnosed do worse than better to you, since you automatically believe what is told to you and in some sort of way become "helpless". Of course you can take meds, but usually you have to stay on them forever, and when you quit you will relapse to your old behaviours. Now, I recommend to you these couple of things that have helped me and a lot others:

- Meditate: so underrated, this gives you so much calm and control that you cant even imagine. Do it periodically (for instance, I meditate 5 days a week) and do it on a fixed time each day, this will help you making it a habit. Probably better to start with mindless meditation, I recommend you Headspace app or you can also benefit from any YT video.

- Use pomodoro technique to work on tasks, it doesn't matter what task is given to you, make sure to work on it on the defined timeframe. Usually pomodoro is 25m work/5m rest, you should start with a different schedule, find one that works for you (at the beginning I used to do like 10x10).

- Read the book "Deep Work" by Cal Newport, a lot of valuable insight in there. Digital minimalsim by the same author should probably be on point as well (I haven't read it yet), but in Deep Work he emphasizes a lot about the damge that tech is doing to us, specially in our attention spans (you're constantly bombarded by notifications and reacting to them).

- Watch this video on how to control your mind (short but pretty useful): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYfYmYbp7C4

Good luck, you can do it.

jrowley3• 7 years ago

So many good comments in this thread.

In addition to a diagnosis and getting the right meds, and all the work / task management habits, I’ve found that meditation and mindfulness has been really helpful for calming me down, and letting me focus on what I need to focus. When I meditate there is usually an initial startup phase where my mind is racing, from one worry or task to another. I consciously try to acknowledge the presence of the task and then mentally tuck it away and try to regain focus on my meditation object (the breath leaving my nose or the breath in my belly for example).

This ability to step away and consciously not engage with a worry or idea is kind of the crux of the ADHD problem for me - so meditation helps. It helps me remember to “let go” and be okay with not focusing on that worry, so I can get back to the central goal sooner.

Many people have mentioned organizational tips like lists and task management. I’d expand to offer systematic organization of physical things in my home to be similarly helpful. The idea follows that when everything has a place (this book goes here, that cable goes there, etc), and you know the place or system rules, then it’s easier to recognize when things are messy and fix the situation. Ive still got a lot of work todo here but that Marie Kondo Art of Tidying Up show helped me for sure.

jrowley3• 7 years ago

Also bonus tip: I’ve worked in open offices for years and this year switched to wearing foam ear plugs instead of listening to music, and it’s a night and day difference in productivity for me. It takes a couple of days to get used to and people will just start talking to you but everyone eventually learns you have ear plugs in. I actually built a device for that specific problem for headphones: https://github.com/joer14/hackers-doorbell

I still sometimes listen to music, but now when I do I realize how distracted it can make me and I only utilize it when I’m warming up or losing steam and need a mental change of scenery.

throwaway413• 7 years ago

You’re saying you willingly plug that torture device into your own machine?

Only half kidding, cool project - but I would not be able to tolerate the screen inversion.

teflonite• 7 years ago

I have had a lot of success with the Pomadoro method. 25 minutes work, 5 minute break, then start over.

bad-joke• 7 years ago

Medication, exercise, and mindfulness meditation were game changers for me.

Meditation was effective because it sharpened my ability to detect when I lost focus and course-correct. With daily practice, this habit (mind wanders -> notice mind wandering -> gently redirect focus back to original intent) became automatic. I was surprised to notice myself "waking up" and clicking back into place over and over throughout the day, whereas before meditation I seemed to "wake up" only at the end of the day with nothing done.

At work I listen to ambient music and use Pomodoros to pace myself. I also asked my supervisor to start requesting daily status updates on my projects. Without the extra accountability, I let things slide off the radar too easily.

It's difficult sometimes. Russell Barkley likens these habits/calendars/medications as a sort of prosthesis. That framing helps me to accept these things as one part of a unique life experience instead of a debilitating setback.

schwurb4• 7 years ago

Excellent advice here!

I add two more:

* Check out the pomodorro technique. It forces my to break tasks down into even smaller chunks that usual and give me a rush of dopamine when I finish those.

* I try to stay away from systems and languages that are not responsive enough. I need to see results fast and am willing to take quite a pay cut just so that I don't get bored waiting for a job to be done. So no big enterprise company for me, but rather prototyping and freelancing.

kls6• 7 years ago

Before I was diagnosed, I was most productive on green field development project where I could do the big picture stuff but had other detail oriented members on the team who could paint in the details. As well as when I was out freelancing on 6-mo or less engagements.

Looking back that makes sense to me. Start-up culture was a natural fit for me when I was younger so the ADD masked itself as I was productive in that culture.

atemerev• 7 years ago

Had to switch to working as a consultant, selling what I am passionate about this time. It was absolutely impossible to be an adequate employee working in corporate environment, and participate in meetings. So, that's my datapoint.

40acres• 7 years ago

Badly! Some days I have to write off as a loss, I wake up on the wrong side of the bed and cant control my attention. Other days I have great focus and creativity where my mind considers a million options at ever step of cognition. Adderall has not really helped in reducing procrastinating, but it does work well as a kindle when I try to manually trigger hyperfocus.

ezekg• 7 years ago

Wow. This is literally my life. Though, I feel like the frequency of "waking up on the wrong side of bed" has been increasing every year. Never tried medication.

dlphn___xyz• 7 years ago

stop multitasking

sidcool• 7 years ago

Medication is one way, but not very sustainable. Do take the medicines your doctor prescribes, but also plan with your healthcare professionals to taper off the dosage. For longer term, therapy, counselling, meditation, exercise & diet are better suited. It depends a lot on the severity of the symptoms though.

xtajv• 7 years ago

Meds + organization to make sure that I'm never "going down a rabbit hole":

* Take notes furiously in meetings. Don't try to organize the information as you go. Just get down as much info as you can. Take 10-15 minutes after each meeting to decipher your notes and pull out the key takeaways & action items.

* Keep a written debugging log. You see [weird behavior], so you want to check logs? Write the weird behavior down first. See recurring errors in the logs? Write down the error and traceID so you can find it later. Don't assume that you will "just remember" - you can't, and you won't.

* Use a whiteboard for planning tasks of any size. Make a rough plan of the commits you'd like to have at the end of the day. If the plan changes, go back and update your whiteboard. Make sure you know why you're doing whatever you're doing.

raptorraver2• 7 years ago

Huge thanks for all you great minds who answered this! I got many helpful tips which I'll definetely start experimenting with while waiting for my diagnosis. Once more: thank you!

notaboutdave• 7 years ago

I practice ruthless minimalism in everything. Having zero irrelevant things in my world leaves little room for distraction.

gremlinsinc• 7 years ago

I'm 39 was diagnosed w/ ADD last year -- best things that work are Vyvanse 50mg, get decent sleep, and exercise.

dontbenebby• 7 years ago

I don't have ADHD, but I used to struggle with time management due to other issues and I found that todo lists are a big help.

I actually don't use fancy software, just a .ODT with a bulleted list of projects, then smaller bulleted lists of tasks for the project (with another level of indentation for when I work on the task itself).

Helps get over the "gulf of execution" to start something or feeling like you're spinning your wheels and reassure yourself "it's ok you're not 'done' - you've done a lot to move towards being 'done'"

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_execution

Ask HN: Developers with ADHD/ADD, how do you cope?

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