New Laptop

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=197182

by rjett • 18 years ago

25 110 18 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I have had a desktop my whole life, but I really want to buy a laptop so I'm not relegated to working in one space. Given that I'm on a budget and I'm just starting to learn to program, what is the best "bang for my buck?"

yummyfajitas• 18 years ago

If you have small hands, the eee pc might be nice.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE...

goofygrin2• 18 years ago

I've got an eee and a development box it is not.

gunderson2• 18 years ago

Uh, most ultra portable laptops have keyboards that are 95% the size of a normal keyboard. I don't get where the small hand thing comes from. Maybe if you have huge hands the 5% makes a difference, but for 99% of people it's not even noticeable.

elai• 18 years ago

the eee is extra tiny. the macbook keyboard is a good size. And that new HP eee competitor has a good sized keyboard, but the eee is frustrating.

goofygrin2• 18 years ago

Are you a mac, linux or windows user?

What's your budget? A budget of < $1200 basically rules out any recent mac laptop.

midnightmonster• 18 years ago

I got a refurb macbook from apple for $800 or $900. With a recent Core 2 Duo processor, it's very snappy. Only downside is it came with only 1GB RAM. That's surprisingly tolerable for basic use, but application switching starts getting slow with my ~50 tabs of Firefox and overloaded Eclipse install. Easy to fix for cheap, though, as I will be soon.

tx• 18 years ago

There are really only two: the MBP and the ThinkPad.

xenoterracide3• 18 years ago

Thinkpad++ I do believe some models come with linux preinstalled.

I believe thinkpad is one of the few laptops left that has what's called a stick? you know the little nub on the keyboard that you can use instead of a touch pad, and in reality it's way better than a touch pad. god I hate touch pads.

I wish I had bought a thinkpad.

Prrometheus2• 18 years ago

I call it the nipple. I prefer the touchpad. It's quicker and more precise.

mikeryan3• 18 years ago

The new MBPs (and MacBooks?) have a two finger touchpad interface that I've found makes a huge difference in its usability - with one finger down already controlling the mouse a second finger essentially works as a mousewheel. I can use my MBP's touchpad fine but can't stand having to use my work dell laptops w/o that feature.

mikeryan3• 18 years ago

culley• 18 years ago

I believe the word you are searching for is Clit Mouse. Only Lenovo (Think Pad) and Dell (D620?) have them.

martian• 18 years ago

When I purchased my Thinkpad T60 (nearly 18 months ago now -- how time flies!), the Lenovo sales staff was unable to help me find a notebook with Linux preinstalled. Maybe this has changed recently, but you're better off just buying the base Windows version and putting your favorite Linux distro on top of it.

http://www.thinkwiki.org is the best resource I'm aware of for Linux + Thinkpad installation tips.

sc5• 18 years ago

The MBP is not great bang-to-buck. I bought one 4 years ago (PowerBook, then) and it ended up costing about $3,000. The MacBook costs just over 1/3 that. 1 year ago, I bought a MacBook to replace the failing MBP, and the difference was incredible: the regular MacBook well-exceeded everything about the MBP. I could buy a new MacBook every year (if I needed to) and it would cost the same as buying a MBP every 3 years, and that's if we don't factor in resale.

Given that the poster is using the system to learn to program, I doubt he needs the MBP. The MB should more than suit that need.

donw• 18 years ago

I agree wholeheartedly. Unless you need to do serious 3D work, the Pro is overkill. For everyday use, the plain-Jane MacBook is quite adequate. True, the hardware isn't quite a nice as ThinkPads of yore, and I loathe the glossy screen, but these are really my only complaints.

markbao2• 18 years ago

I'll agree with that. I own a MacBook Pro and although it has some nice features (larger screen, better video card, aluminum finish...) it's not totally worth the difference in price, if you're looking for an economy system.

With that said, I'll also recommend that you get a ThinkPad instead of a Mac. They're time- and battle-tested machines, and work well. The Mac may seem to have less problems, but both usually have about the same amounts of problems, but just of some different natures.

I like the Mac, and I can live with Windows. Both are good machines, and you have to try both to see which one you like better.

vlad5• 18 years ago

You're talking entirely about a different computer and a different time. A new Macbook Pro (such as one he might buy) comes with a much better operating system, can run Windows programs side by side, has the same processor and graphics card as leading PC counterparts, does not cost $3,000 ($1599 with Student Developer discount), has an LED Glossy option versus fluorescent matte, has more mac native apps and dev tools than ever, gives many more reasons to use it for programming like for the iPhone, as well as opportunities to create web apps in ROR, Django, and other web frameworks that did not exist at the time that now need to be tested on a Mac since it also happens to have much greater marketshare. All of this means that his computer might last for more years than before, since the hardware is already top of the line compared not just to mac machines released a year prior, but to high end pc laptops, as well, which means he might as well get the MacBook Pro.

rufo2• 18 years ago

I wouldn't knock the MacBook too much. Under $1000 if you check Apple's refurb section (store.apple.com, scroll down and look in the left sidebar), and you can run Windows or Linux if you wind up hating Apple gear. Buy the cheap model and swap in your own larger HD and 4GB of RAM and you'll have quite a decent laptop for not a whole lot of money.

If you hate Apple, then I'd go with a ThinkPad personally, but I don't know what's good on that side of things.

rufo2• 18 years ago

One other thing I forgot to mention: Apple refurb gear carries the same 1-year warranty that new Apple gear does, and you still have the ability to buy AppleCare (extended warranty) on it.

Generally, you're not giving up a whole lot going refurb except a shinier box and the ability to BTO.

mynameishere• 18 years ago

Who upmods these demonstratably false statements anyway? The falsehood gnomes? Huh?

andrewf• 18 years ago

I think the MacBook is worth considering. I like its form factor better than the MBP's.

If I was unable to use an external screen for extended sessions at home I might favor the larger screen.

taw• 18 years ago

MB/MBP runs TextMate, ThinkPad does not. That's the main difference.

andrewparker• 18 years ago

Regarding "bang for your buck" Dell's are still the best bargain for compute power. Many people (rightly so) piss all over them for bad customer support, but if you buy from the "small business" side of the site instead of the "consumer/residential" side of the site, then you get small biz customer support bundled, which anecdotally is much better.

aneesh2• 18 years ago

Yeah, you can get a great Dell for really cheap. They now come preinstalled with Ubuntu (http://dell.com/ubuntu), so you don't have to pay for Windoze.

davidw2• 18 years ago

I got one of those, and have really liked it. It's not going to ever get lots of looks, but I use it for programming, not showing off.

Also, in the one occasion when I needed customer service, it was really good. I bought it in the US, but called up the support line in Germany, and had a new hard drive here in Innsbruck, Austria the next day. I was pleasantly surprised: I thought I would get hassled because of the change of country, or they would be slow, or see that I had bought it with Ubuntu and give me grief for that, but they really didn't ask any questions, just sent a guy over with a new drive.

Diogenes• 18 years ago

The specs on the newer vostro line of Dell laptops are pretty impressive for the price. Best value in my opinion. Dual core processors, 2GB RAM, separate 256MB video, choice of screen sizes/weights, DVD+/-RW, built in camera, 160Gb+ HDD, choice of OS and that's starting at around $700 new.

They're not pretty, but they are highly functional, don't suffer from the quality issues Dell had circa 2002 - 2006, and if something breaks or you need a peripheral of some sort, you won't be in hock to Apple for half the cost of the machine or more.

SwellJoe3• 18 years ago

I was just shopping today and found that a Lenovo T series can be had for about the same price (within $100, to one side or the other depending on specs) as a comparable Dell Latitude, and the Latitudes don't seem to be available with Linux (only three models can be had with Linux). I'm using a Dell at the moment, and historically the price has always convinced me...but it seems like you can pretty much get a comparable Lenovo for about the same price as a Dell. (And Lenovo also offers occasional coupon codes that keep them pretty competitive even if Dell offers slightly bigger special deals on occasion.)

Yeah, I'm as surprised as you are.

blender• 18 years ago

We use Toshiba A200-AH9 laptops running Ubuntu. Intel wifi just works. 9-cell battery. Only downside is the resolution if you don't use an external monitor and no bluetooth.

Create2• 18 years ago

you can get an almost unobtrusive (only sticks out a fw mm-s) usb bt adaptor for the price of a sandwich. It is very popular for the eee.

davidw2• 18 years ago

Good point about the Intel chipsets - they work better with open source drivers than, say, nvidia.

misterbwong• 18 years ago

What are your requirements and what is your budget?

If you're purely looking for a cheap machine that will hold up decently well, you're going to be looking at a Dell + warranty.

If you're looking for higher quality (and price point), you're going towards Lenovo/Apple

rcoder• 18 years ago

Honestly, I'd recommend looking for a used Thinkpad -- something from the T41/X41 era will be cheap (<$500), well-built, and extremely well-supported under just about any recent Linux distro.

I used an X41 as a mobile development box for quite a while, and only upgraded to a MacBook Pro when I started shooting a lot of RAW photos with my DSLR and wanted to run Lightroom.

ra• 18 years ago

Thanks for this. I'm just selling my Macbook core2duo on ebay at the moment. I use a mac mini with a 23" screen at home, and I don't take the macbook out much because it's heavy and valuable, so mainly it just sits there doing nothing.

I have been planning to get the new eeepc (when it comes out in a week or two) - I hadn't considered a second hand thinkpad.

Thanks very much indeed for a great tip.

breck• 18 years ago

If you're just starting to learn to program than any laptop you get will be sufficient. If you go Windows, HP's are pretty slick. They're fast, good looking, easy to carry, and have great multimedia features. I personally have a ThinkPad, HP, and Dell. I use the Dell the most but the HP is extremely light and small and great for traveling. If I had to choose one I'd go with the Dell. I got a MBP for work and that's great, but I still prefer Windows/nix. The ThinkPad is old. Haven't used a new one of those since before Lenovo.

briansmith2• 18 years ago

I strongly suggest getting a 14.1" ThinkPad T6x series laptop. I have had a T60 for almost two years now and it has worked great. The keyboard is just amazing compared to anything else out there. The TrackPoint (little red mouse pointer thing in the keyboard) is great when you get used to it. Unless you play games, you should get the integrated graphics (great battery life and easier to get working under Linux). The only bad thing about ThinkPads is that they don't run Mac OS X (legally/easily).

If you are on a budget, I recommend getting a slightly older model (slower processor) but with as much memory as you can get. I also recommend that you get a model with the one-year warranty instead of the three-year warranty, to save money. There are so many people selling ThinkPad parts and accessories that there is no reason to pay for a warranty that you will probably never use when you can replace anything that breaks yourself for less money. I just priced one at lenovo.com and it was less than $1,100.

BTW, I strongly considered buying a MacBook but I went and tried them at the Apple store and I found that the keyboard is really horrible for programming. Only Sony VAIO is worse. No dedicated home/end/pageup/pagedown on either?!?!

noahlt• 18 years ago

Both the MacBook and VAIO have excellently clicky keyboards. When it comes to home/end/pgup/pgdown, just configure your editor properly. Moving your hands is a waste anyways.

mindslight• 18 years ago

I've had a T60 for about 16 months now. What exactly do you like about the keyboard? I've found that the keys have a tendency for things to get stuck in their movement, and the ] key had even fallen off of my keyboard. Then the whole keyboard stopped working, so they sent me a new one. I've also gotten a new power adapter (insufficient strain relief).

I personally like going with the three year warranty (but in a bundle rather than explicitly adding it on). I previously had a T22 that I ran into the ground, and over the course of its life had the motherboard, drive, and power cord replaced.

holygoat2• 18 years ago

Speaking of power supplies... MAGSAFE. Nothing beats MagSafe.

pbnaidu• 18 years ago

If you're going to buy MBP from apple, try buying refurbished ones from apple online store, they're about 15-25% less than the brand new ones. I think the refurbished ones go through extra testing as well, so I think its a pretty good deal.

rtf• 18 years ago

I've been using a model n200 from Lenovo's 3000 series(the consumer ones, a grade below Thinkpads) and am relatively pleased. Build quality is lower than a Thinkpad, but I've had no trouble using it daily since last summer, toting it around, scratching it up....it's taken one fall, and the only thing that happened was the battery came loose.

Main caveat: have to baby its airflow so that it doesn't overheat. Vista will throttle on overheating, Linux won't, at least not the kernel I'm using.

notdarkyet• 18 years ago

Watch out for the cheap laptops. These are really enticing options and I am typing on one now. As a student and planning to run linux on it anyway, I thought it would be a good idea to save my money and get a cheapie. I bought an Acer about a year ago and after a good amount of usage I realized my mistake. After having this thing on for about an hour or so it gets hot. I mean hot lava burn your nuts so you won't have children hot. Not only is this an inconvenience, but the performance goes down as well. I can't watch videos for more than 15 minutes and even youtube can be annoyingly choppy. None the less it does get the job done when it comes to programming, as most laptops out will.

My friend gave me good advice about this once when I was complaining, he said "Why would you try to save money on a tool that will not only be the basis for your profession, but also the device you will spend most of your day on?". He was right. Its like trying to save 150 bucks on a bed that has a huge lump in the middle that makes you wake up with a sore back every morning. Its not worth saving the money. Don't worry so much about bang for the buck, focus on getting that consistent bang to get the job done each day without added stress. A carpenter wouldn't go to work each day with a plastic hammer and a nail file instead of a saw, so approach your purchase with the same logic. Find out your needs, find the tools that meets those needs, and then make your decision from that point. Don't let money be that big of an influence, you will regret it.

nickb• 18 years ago

I think you're approaching it from a wrong standpoint. You should start off by telling us what you're going to program in and what your OS and tools of choice are.

PieSquared• 18 years ago

The article author is learning to program. Not learn to program in something, learning to program. I doubt it would be a good idea to tell us that, since it would be, in effect, limiting options for exploration. (Well, or just giving us false data, which wouldn't be as bad.)

3KWA• 18 years ago

budget + starting to learn => don't underestimate the second hand market

despite lusting for a MPB I recently acquired a hp nc4400 second hand which rocks when I am away from the desktop it runs Hardy and all the soft I need for my coding (and I am not starting to learn :P)

... and you get the feeling that your are doing something for the environment in the process (not that I'm a hardcore green or anything ;)

iron_ball• 18 years ago

I use an HP/Compaq NC6000, $300 on eBay. Make sure you get the widescreen (1440w) version with integrated Bluetooth, and expand it to 1GB RAM. It runs everything I need for interactive development, including hogs like Photoshop, Flash, and the Eclipse-based Flex Builder 3; the Bluetooth means I can get internet access through my smartphone; it's fairly light and has a real-world battery life of three hours under steady use; its battery is swappable, so you can carry a spare; and you can afford to lose it, which is a very distinct possibility if you're carrying it around a bustling city all day. (I live in Manhattan.)

Even the best backup plan and warranty won't cover the "oh FUCK ME" moment when you realize your $3000 laptop just got lost, dropped, or stolen.

gunderson2• 18 years ago

i have been happy with the toshiba r205 s209

originally retailed for $2200 but i've seen them lately for around $800.

Spend an extra $100 and load up the RAM to 1.25GB. It runs linux like a charm and gets great battery life.

Best of all, it's got a titanium case and doesn't flex and groan the way mac laptops do. It's light and rock solid.

For $800 it's by far the best deal you'll find today.

If you like games, don't buy it however b/c it has a slow graphics card for 3d stuff (I don't play games)...

jdvolz• 18 years ago

About 18 months ago, I bought a Dell laptop (dual core, 2 gigs RAM, etc.) and it has worked really well for me through short (day) and long (to Australia) trips. As a contractor, it has made me a lot of money because I can show customers their software at their site, and I can make adjustments as needed on site. A quick turnaround time for changes is essential to happy customers.

username2• 18 years ago

15% off Code: USPSAVEMORENOW

http://www.techbargains.com/vendor_detail.cfm/96/lenovo-coup...

Lenovo ThinkPad R61 Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 14.1 inch Notebook PC $552.07 Free Shipping, May. 22 8 AM

lenovo has the Lenovo ThinkPad R61 Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 14" Widescreen Notebook PC for a low $649.50 - 15% off Coupon Code: USPSAVEMORENOW (Exp 5/26) = $552.07 Free Shipping. Tax in most states.

5.2lbs; 14.1"; Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 @ 2.0GHz; 1GB RAM; 80GB HDD; DVD-ROM/CDRW Combo; 802.11a/b/g; Linux; 1yr warranty

aneesh2• 18 years ago

Good, but I think you can do better. I got a Dell with the identical specs (plus Windows) 2 years ago for $700 and change (incl shipping). The time value of those two years makes me think you can get better specs for this price.

aggieben• 18 years ago

I just bought a Lenovo T61p (ThinkPad mobile workstation), but it was very nearly a coin-flip decision vs a Dell XPS M1530. www.notebookreview.com

Hexayurt• 18 years ago

Macbook. They're updating them soon, so you might want to wait for that to happen, and then either buy an old one for less, or a new one with new features.

gtani2• 18 years ago

Random thoughts: the MacbookPro and thinkpads, besides everything said here, have the highest resale value, for sure. But i would definitely avoid the early MBPs, lots of heat issues, bulging batteries and keyboards. The recent ones, including mine, still seem to not sleep/hibernate properly.

Buy used from Craigslist. Make sure you get original purchase receipt, O/S install DVD's. Or from Costco. 90 day return policy.

gtani2• 18 years ago

a couple other things: look for a full complement Control, Alt, Option keys on the right side of keyboard. Very important for a lotta editors, emacs, textmate.

off-topic, but i've never seen this discussed anywhere. TO dual head my toshiba laptop with ubuntu Gutsy, I choose gutsy in grub with external monitor disconnected, then plug it in about 4 seconds later. It works, no nasty xorg.conf to edit.

Aeos• 18 years ago

Get a Dell. I've had one for 4 years now and it has held up pretty well. It did cost me around $2000 but it has been worth it. If you really want a 'cheap' laptop get a refurbished one.

eugenejen• 18 years ago

I bought a MacBook. Bought 4GB ram and 320 GB hard drive and replace the factory one. Total cost without warranty and before tax: $1099 (MacBook) + $139 (disk) + $98 (4GB).

I need to add $79 for VMWare Fusion to run different VMs for FreeBSD, Linux and another $150 for Windows XP pro. But this laptop will have all client system that I need to use.

I guess you can do the same thing on Lenovo ThinkPads with similar cost or maybe cheaper. If you don't need to write stuffs for OS X/iPhone, you just need to use Safari Windows to check your web sites.

Since your are beginner to learn programming. I guess a ThinkPad with Linux and you can start to learn python right away.

maxklein2• 18 years ago

Let me warn you: DO NOT BUY A MACBOOK! Let me tell you my story...

A few months back, I decided to travel to china. I sold off my desktop, and because the macbook was small and nice looking, I bought it. I installed windows on it, installed bootcamp and all was fine, and I really loved this notebook for a few months.

But the thing is, in China, I was constantly on the move. And I was moving with the laptop all the time in my bag. The macbook does not deal with this well at all. Two nasty things happened: First, my hard drive failed a mere 4 months after I bought it. I lost weeks of work, and the Apple repair store would not replace it for me for 3 weeks because of chinese new year. So I bought a new hard drive and did it myself. The instructions online do not mention that you need a very strange and difficult to find screwdriver to do this.

Next thing that happend is that a piece of plastic along the edge broke off. The problem with the macbooks body is that when a piece along the edge chips off, the entire edge slowly peels of. My laptop is losing the edge, and now the resell value is less than half of the original because it looks fugly as hell.

Some other things:

* The white macbook gets dirty as hell quickly

* Bootcamp is no longer free! You need to buy Mac OSX to get the new version of Bootcamp. There are some on the torrent sites, but you never know what trojan you'll be getting, and a trojan in a kernel driver is nasty

* When booting windows, the keyboard does not always get detected at startup. When reinstalling from CD, this can be frustrating. And if you have that 30 seconds countdown on windows, you have to wait for it to countdown because the keyboard is not detected. You also cannot go into safe mode.

* There is no frickin right click on the keyboard. For development work, it's very annoying. Try using Eclipse or Visual Studio without right click.

* There are no fricking curly braces or square brackets or the pipe symbol on my macbook keyboard! You cannot open or close functions, you cannot index arrays and you cannot do a logical OR. Who came up with that braindead keyboard designs. Also, there is no printscreen key. You never know how much that screen is useful till its gone. (this is the german keyboard layout I'm talking about)

* In some rooms with overhead projects, the audio of the macbook goes on and off randomly. I learnt this the hard way when tryign to do a presentation. This probably has to do with the remote control

* The webcam is mirrored.

* If a CD is inside and your macbook has no power, there is no way of getting it out

* The macbook comes with a minidv video output, A.K.A make them pay extra money

* The coolness factor of a macbook is long gone. Everyone and their grandma own a macbook

On the positive side: * Has webcam

I'm about to switch my laptop as soon as I can get apple to repair that hard drive for me. I've done some reaearch, and I'm going for the:

LENOVO THINKPAD x61t

It's a rugged looking tablet PC, smaller than the macbook, has a docking station and is not particularly expensive.

Conclusion: Macbook is like a pretty but crazy girlfriend. In the beginning, you are madly in love, and later you have to break up when bits start falling off!

astrodust• 18 years ago

I think a lot of these grievances apply to any notebook, really.

* Any white computer, like a white car, is going to look super dirty.

* Bootcamp comes with any new MacBook as part of the package. You would only need to worry about trojans(!?) if you were buying an old, used machine and didn't have the extra money for 10.5. It's a fraction of the price of Vista, so what's the trouble here?

* The German keyboard sure is peculiar (http://flickr.com/photos/fuzheado/453807351/) but is this just an Apple thing? How does Asus, Toshiba or Lenovo compare?

* Right-clicking is usually done with control, and that works in VMWare, but BootCamp is a different deal. If Apple had better Windows trackpad drivers, they could fix this.

* The webcam only appears to be mirrored, it's all done in software. You can turn this option off.

* Any CD stuck in a machine that's slot load will be difficult to rescue if the power is off.

* The MiniDV output is a bit of a pain because you need a dongle, but you can use VGA, DVI or composite from the same port. Most notebooks only have a VGA port which is probably more convenient until you want DVI, in which case you need a new notebook.

* If you need to buy a computer to 'be cool', then I guess you need a MacBook Air. That's gold-plated. With diamonds.

maxklein2• 18 years ago

Bootcamp upgrades are not free. I have the old bootcamp, but want the new one. Why should we pay for driver upgrades? It goes against my philosophies.

Apple is the only computer maker with that wierd layout. All others are sane.

Tamerlin• 18 years ago

I recommend checking out powernotebooks.com before you decide. You might like what you see there. I have a Sager that I recently purchased from them; it's a great machine, well-built, and since it's factory direct, it's less expensive than a comparable machine from most other vendors.

pg• 18 years ago

Buy something used; the Powerbook G4 I use seems to go for about $500 on eBay.

Create2• 18 years ago

They are all Intel Reference platforms: only your budget will determine the model (if you get your money through work, then you'll go for the best "bang for the buck").

That said, there are 4-5 (tops) companies in the WORLD making notebooks: all the choice you see in the shops are about branding and artificial product differentiation. ECS, Acer, Asus etc. fall off the same machines as Apple, Fujitsu, HPQ etc. (Lenovo being a notable exception). They contain the same CPU, same RAM ...same MS licence etc. Some even have almost the same shell (e.g. ECS-DELL-FSC-Toshiba).

If you use it for work, I suggest you get the cheapest one that offers you enough value to perform your task (e.g. 15.4", 17" being no longer portable; x3100, 2Gig are all sufficient for coding: if you need real power, you'll ssh anyway to the given HPC). You will not get a heart-attack if it drops, gets scratched or stolen: you will just get a brand new one, being 2x better for approx. the same price within a year with strong batteries (they will fade within 2 years anyway).

If it is (also) for showing feathers, then obviously Apple, Sony (and no, Lenovo is no good for attracting attention).

But then again, these are PC-s, and the P stands for Personal: tastes and habits vary. On a pure technical level, whichever runs Linux/BSD best (generally the least fancy ones) already gives enough empowerment to change the world...

mattmaroon2• 18 years ago

I'm a pretty big fan of the Lenovo X series if you want to go Windows. You may want to look at the T instead if you're not planning on using an external monitor though due to screen sizes.

jamesbritt2• 18 years ago

Dell D830 with the WUXGA 1920x1200 screen rez.

Very cool. Ubuntu 8.04 works like a charm.

slvrspoon• 18 years ago

all laptops have one of the highest failure rates in all of mainstream consumer electronics.

that said: i will add to the groups discussion i am a die hard thinkpad guy. the 'stick button' is SO MUCH more effective than a touchpad. they are fantastic machines. X series are small light and about $1k - $1.5k. i never spend more.

downside: Windows. or worse... VISTA!

bk• 18 years ago

You don't need anything fancy, save as much as you can, and buy additional ram (possibly from a 3rd party site for much cheaper rates).

I have 2 gigs and frequently go to the limit with the number of apps I have open. Slowdowns due to lack of ram can really kill your flow.

I have a regular macbook, mainly because of OS X, which gives me unix tools with an OS that just works. Apple's hardware is ok, not great. I've had issues with 3 out of 3 notebooks. That said, the issues have become smaller (so Apple's QC seems to have improved).

If I could run OS X on cheaper hardware, I would do it in an instance. I don't need to show off at the coffee shop. :)

natch• 18 years ago

The best Unix machine you can get (things just work, no driver issues) is a MacBook Pro. It also allows you to develop for iPhone, and for Windows if you use Parallels or VMware. If cost (comparing with crappy Dells that come with Vista, egads) is an issue, I invite you to check your wallet for this amazing device called a credit card. It's worked wonders for me.

thingsilearned• 18 years ago

I bought the lowest model Macbook (not pro) for ~1000 bucks and then bought 4G of ram at Fry's for $60. Its worked great for a year now. Most of my friends have pro's but mine has worked just as good for me. I like the smaller size as well.

Another great thing about the macbooks is their high resale value. Factor that into the cost.

LPTS• 18 years ago

Get a refurbished mac. If you are going to program you should have a mac. The 21rst century computer company.

niels_olson• 18 years ago

I went to a mac reseller and told him I wanted a mac laptop for $200 if he had anything, even if it needed a repair, like a hard drive. He did. In September 2006 he had a late 2004 ibook G4 for $200. The hard drive was wearing out but still usable. Ended up replacing the hard drive for another $100, and put another 1GB ram in it (for a total 1.25GB ram) but totally worth it. Upgraded to Leopard and it's even better. Firefox 3, and it's even better. Total of ~$550 and I've got a pretty decent laptop.

I got my wife a Dell under the Tulane student discount, loaded Ubuntu dual boot, and she chooses Ubuntu. I wouldn't recommend a Dell, but it sure attests to the usability of Ubuntu.

I'm not sure I would get a macbook simply because I can't stand the short screen, glossy or not. MBP is definitely not a budget buy. Thinkpads seem awefully nice. Since you can run linux on a mac now, I would think the question comes down to do you or do you not want OS X?

I have to say though, I have never been more please than getting a $200 iBook. It used to get deadly slow if you leave firefox 2 open for days, but with firefox 3, it got a new breath of life.

listic2• 18 years ago

If you consider using ThinkPad, you can find the following specialized forum useful: http://forum.thinkpads.com

listic2• 18 years ago

Also, your options may vary according to whether you care about any of the following points: 1. weight and size (do you want to have your laptop with you all the time and feel light on the go) 2. battery working time (do you want to work on batteries for long periods of time) 3. screen quality and brightness (be prepared that laptops in general are backwards from desktops in this regard) 4. keyboard quality and size 5. drive size, longevity and durability 6. network acess options (some laptops have cellular modem built-in, so theoretically you will be able to stay connected really anywhere; need that?)

If you don't care, that's easier for you. If you do care (like me) - then you should do some serious research and, frankly, can still have some backwards thoughts after your purchase.

I was in the situation similar to yours, i.e. I wanted a laptop to be able to learn programming in different places. As a long time computer user, I had my specific preferences: 1. minimum weight and size; I want to have my laptop with me all the time and not feel constrained with it 2. maximum battery working time. noone thinks that a cell phone that is only able to work half of a day is ok, why is it ok for laptop? in the meanwhile, I want a laptop with a battery life as long as possible. 3. i wasn't concerned about screen quality, as I don't want to edit images on my laptop but mainly work with text and programs. but now I think screen of my current IBM X60s could really be brighter. it's ok to use in rooms, when not under direct sunlight, but not with the minimum brightness settings. viewing angles are decent, but cold be better too. in general, from what i gather, IBM/Lenovo is very conservative in their choice of screens. In non-Apple world, the only company whose laptops' get frequent praise for their screens is Sony. 4. i'm very used to desktop keyboard, so the more I was inclined to buy a ThinkPad: their keyboards are often said to be of great quality and the key placement is the closest to desktop that I've seen. 5. i don't need file storage of great size, but I really want to be sure that my hard drive won't break. so I chose SSD (these models don't come with them standard, the hdd was upgraded manually by the prev. owner) 6. i wanted to have cellular modem built-in, so I went a bit out of the way to get it: here in Russia the models with WWAN are not sold, so I bought import model and had to unlock it with a special program. It works now! also: I needed Windows. In fact I think that open-source OS is the wave of the future, but I don't ride that wave. I'm deeply rooted in Windows. XP is fine for me, don't need Vista. mat screen. 4x3 screen proportions. lower dpi screen, please. 1024x768 on 12" is ok (107 dpi), but higher resolution screens have higher dpi - I have problems with those. I have good vision, but I don't want to strain it.

So, after careful consideration, that brought me the following laptop: IBM X60s (1702-64M) 12.1 1024x768 | CD 1.66LV | 2GB | 32GB SSD | BT+abg+WWAN(MC8755) [1,5 kg, 6..8 hours of mild work] I bought it from a ThinkPads forum member in Australia. I'm generally quite happy with it, but I'm still yet to get adjusted to some issues like the smallish keyboard (maybe a light 14" would be better? or should I just adjust to this one?) and not very bright screen (it's ok in the room, but when I'm on a bus and there's sunshine in the street and the bus turns - oops, I can't see anything anymore :) - maybe a Sony would be better)

vegai• 18 years ago

I'm looking at MSI Winds with great interest. If you can handle the small display, you that might be good for you.

Price should be at $400-500ish

rms2• 18 years ago

What about something like this?

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=204814777&list...

kajecounterhack2• 18 years ago

Under $400 (Prolly not you): Eee and OLPC battle!

Under $700: You just walk into best buy and try to max out ram/HD/Optical Drive/USB Ports and stuff. Its hard to say who's a sure winner becuase this category is so tight.

$700-1000: Either do what you did for the lower price range, or sometimes you can get a lower end PC from the next price range, if you know where to look.

Over $1000: Thinkpad, MBP, Dell Precision, HP 85xx/87xx series.

kajecounterhack2• 18 years ago

I'm using the Dell Precision series and I'm really happy with it. Its hardware is well supported by Linux.

New Laptop

Related Stories