How to increase your chances of finding a hidden camera

https://sixfortwelve.wordpress.com/2019/04/06/how-to-increase-your-chances-of-finding-a-hidden-camera/

by rurban • 7 years ago

423 181 7 years ago

sixfortwelve.wordpress.com

baldeagle• 7 years ago

The easiest way to find a hidden camera is with a thermal sensor. You can get a used FLIR for around $100. Everything electronic gives off heat...

kcmastrpc• 7 years ago

Or just turn off all the lights in the room and use your iPhone camera in live mode - hidden cameras (and their IR emitters) will light up like a Christmas light.

ungamedplayer• 7 years ago

Is this an iphone specific thing ? Have you tested it.

llampx• 7 years ago

That's only if the hidden camera is actually using an infrared led / led array. Also you might have better luck using the front camera because it is more sensitive to IR.

abstractbarista• 7 years ago

This may vary based on the wavelength emissions from the IR LED's:

https://ellipsesecurity.com/2018/05/850nm-vs-940nm-ir-illumi...

artiscode• 7 years ago

Another option is to get a camera lens detector device. It works by detecting the curvature of camera lens.

icebraining4• 7 years ago

How does it detect the curvature?

throwaway20482• 7 years ago

You can also use a non linear junction detector

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_junction_detector

They are electronically very simple (they are the boxes with wands and earphones you always see in espionage movies)

h0l0cube• 7 years ago

Quoting from the wiki article:

As a countermeasure against an NLJD, professional covert listening devices (bugs) of the Central Intelligence Agency were equipped from 1968 onwards with a so-called isolator. An isolator is a 3-port circulator of which the return ports is terminated with a resistor. Any energy injected into the bug by an NLJD, will be absorbed by the resistor, resulting in no (or very little) reflected energy. An example of such a bug is the CIA's SRT-107.

Do modern concealed spy cameras have this kind of tech? Is there anyway to counter such a counter-measure?

owenversteeg• 7 years ago

But they are about $10k, and sadly one of the few things where I don't think there are any working DIY ones.

appleflaxen2• 7 years ago

this doesn't help when it's hidden in the workings of another electronic device which creates heat.

usefulcat2• 7 years ago

I think the general assumption here is that a hidden camera would be likely to use active IR illumination.

Cthulhu_2• 7 years ago

I saw a random video clip yesterday where they clipped a red transparent card over the phone camera; turning on the camera flash, and scanning the room using the camera's video camera mode. The light from the phone reflected in small spy cam lenses, showing up as tiny red dots on the screen.

hokumguru• 7 years ago

Can you link a source to this? It sounds incredibly cool.

copperx• 7 years ago

You can get a used FLIR for around $100.

The cheapest ones I have found are around $500. What FLIR device are you talking about?

RandallBrown• 7 years ago

You can get the one for smartphones for $200 brand new. https://www.flir.com/products/flir-one-gen-3/

dwighttk• 7 years ago

sidebar:

Why did "forward looking" get glued onto that acronym? Why not just IR camera or detector? Did the military have less popular rear or side looking infrared devices? maybe "FLIR" was just fun to say? On a rocket powered missile rear-looking infrared seems pretty useless.

alexhutcheson2• 7 years ago

Yes, early infrared imaging systems were "push broom"[1] scanners facing perpendicular to the direction of travel. Forward-looking sensors required some additional tech to be developed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-looking_infrared#Origi...

FLIR is arguably a misnomer when applied to handheld devices, though.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_broom_scanner

taxidump2• 7 years ago

Also remember, thermal heat would be present and difficult to isolate from hidden cameras located in seemingly harmless electronics.

RileyJames• 7 years ago

I've been helping a friend update their rental listings online this week (airbnb, homeaway, etc), and after seeing this issue come up, I told him I would specify that there were no cameras in the house. His response "that make's it sound like I have camera's in the house", but I convinced him honesty was a better policy in this regard.

But when we weren't updating the listing, we were installing all kinds of smart home crap. There might not be any camera's, but every room has a google hub / speaker, a thermostat sensor (which looks suspiciously like a camera, particularly after reading this article) & wifi switches.

I don't see a need for any of this stuff. The barely find the 'problems' it solves inconvenient. And when balanced against the privacy implications, I have no interest in a smart home.

But I'm realising now that's going to make many Airbnb's unsuitable. Adding the hidden camera element... it just becomes impossible. If you really care about this issue, are you going to book an airbnb, then unplug every smart device, check for camera's, disable them somehow, and then re-connect everything when you leave?

mateo12• 7 years ago

Most "smart" home automation utilities are pretty useless anyway. Their end goal can usually be achieved with "dumb" electromechanical devices. Anything "smarter" than a motion sensor and a relay is probably too smart.

wyldfire• 7 years ago

I like that I can find out that I left my garage door open even when I'm not home -- and even shut it remotely, if necessary. It's a very practical use case for a 'smart' device.

asark2• 7 years ago

Part of the problem is that "smart" crap becomes hard to avoid if you want non-shitty devices.

We've run into this with refrigerator shopping—we want a counter-depth fridge with what amounts to maybe $50-100 worth of "luxury" improvements in terms of cost to the manufacturer (a little more metal where some have plastic, castors for the drawers so they move a little better, "soft close" would be nice but its absence isn't a deal-breaker, some slightly more thoughtful than usual layout & organization) but all the ones with that kind of thing also bundle auto-opening doors and fancy smart junk and cost double what a mid-range fridge does. We just want to pay slightly (say $200-400) more for a fridge that doesn't feel like a (cheap!) kid's toy, but without a bunch of fancy junk. Such a product does not exist.

Then there's smoke detectors. Do some reading and it seems like they all suck, badly, except Nest Protect, which achieves best-of-a-bad-lot status. I just want smoke detectors that, you know, work, and don't annoy me so much in the kitchen that I end up unplugging that one permanently. Ideally they'd wirelessly trigger one another so I don't have to worry about wires for that. I don't really want or need them to connect to the Internet or to spy on me. Unfortunately sucks-the-least comes bundled with spies-on-you.

See also: the entire TV market.

fluxem• 7 years ago

Do you also introduce yourself like:

Hi! I'm Bob, not a murderer.

Otherwise, how people will know that you haven't killed anyone?

bryanrasmussen• 7 years ago

If there was a widespread problem with murderers in your social circle, and people kept finding out people whom they had assumed were not murderers, then I might introduce myself as Bob, not a murderer.

Just wait til they find out I'm not Bob.

MisterTea• 7 years ago

Hi! I'm Bob, not a murderer.

That's just proper craigslist dating etiquette.

DonHopkins• 7 years ago

That also makes it sound like your name's not really Bob.

mikorym• 7 years ago

Hi prison mates, I'm Bob and I am in prison for stealing a loaf of bread. Do you want to rent out my copy of the Twilight series?

Maybe that's slightly more accurate?

mherdeg• 7 years ago

No, I don't introduce myself that way - that would be crazy.

There is a popular theory that the handshake originated as a way to show your hand wasn't holding a weapon.

I think the evidence for this history is shaky at best, but it's been repeated because it's somehow a compelling idea -- what were people thinking many hundreds of years ago when crime was so common that you genuinely wondered about whether you could trust a casual acquaintance not to hurt you? What did they do to protect themselves?

It doesn't seem unreasonable to wonder about how to present yourself as "safe" in the deeply untrustworthy home-sharing privacy landscape where casual home surveillance is ultra-common (and where neither landlord nor tenant knows how much they can trust the other). I'm not sure there is a good answer and it's not crazy to try to look for one.

robrtsql• 7 years ago

Counterpoint:

Are you suspicious of a VPN service that claims that it doesn't collect logs?

Actually, maybe that's a bad question, because a large number of HN commenters _are_ suspicious of commercial VPNs, but would you say that a VPN that doesn't make such a claim is preferable to one that does?

minikites• 7 years ago

My "Not involved in human trafficking" T-shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt.

https://twitter.com/shutupmikeginn/status/403359911481839617

gnicholas2• 7 years ago

When my now-wife and I first met (via OKC) in 2010, we did actually joke about how neither of us was an axe murderer.

dredmorbius• 7 years ago

https://www.ul.com

https://www.trustarc.com/privacy-certification-standards/

https://www.usda.gov/topics/organic

https://tilth.org/

http://www.ok.org/companies/what-is-kosher/meat-dairy-pareve...

https://www.globalnegotiator.com/international-trade/diction...

wang_li• 7 years ago

Announcing you have no cameras answers questions about privacy and about security. Announcing you're not a murderer only says you claim not to kill people unlawfully.

rdiddly• 7 years ago

I would if I were trying to sell something in a market where the murder of customers was a common (or even merely widely reported) phenomenon. Because the risk of making someone think about it who hasn't before, is lower, and the benefit of potentially reaching someone with that message who was already wondering about it, is higher.

chewz• 7 years ago

Just turn off the router and use your own. That's crude but should deal with 98% of problems.

kranner• 7 years ago

That's the decoy router, not the hidden one with the hidden SSID.

JustSomeNobody2• 7 years ago

Yes. But, the 2% remaining are hidden cameras saving everything to SD card.

taxidump2• 7 years ago

Or further, disconnect the internet from the Demarcation point outside.

Although I have personally found a cheap android phone located in an outside, locked, electrical receptacle box with a charger plugged in. It all fit nicely. This was running a hotspot with hidden SSID.

jhncls• 7 years ago

An indirect approach could be better to communicate the lack of cameras without making people too suspicious. Something like: "We highly value our guests' privacy".

acqq• 7 years ago

“We highly value our guests' privacy” is exactly what every data collecting actor on every website writes. It’s effectively meaningless.

nothrabannosir• 7 years ago

That phrase has such a strong connection to data leaks and privacy invasion that I instinctively stay away from anyone who uses it.

rb808• 7 years ago

Agreed on IoT stuff. If you're just staying in a place a few days the last thing you want to do is figure out how to get all the smart home crap to work. Stick with regular light switches please!

OrgNet2• 7 years ago

There might not be any camera's, but every room has a google hub

that is a bigger privacy invasion if you ask me... and it is probably even illegal in some states (https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-R...) ...

Godel_unicode2• 7 years ago

A clearly visible device that doesn't record unless you tell it to is a bigger violation than a hidden device that records all the time? Come on.

Edit: the Google device also has a visible physical mute button.

achenatx• 7 years ago

as the owner of a vacation rental

1) being able to change door codes remotely and unlock the door remotely can save a lot of trips to the rental

2) being able to control the thermostat after people leave and have set the temp to 65 degrees is also really useful.

3) The only cameras I would use are outside the home so I can monitor it when it is vacant. I have the same policy in my own home

reverend_gonzo• 7 years ago

I'm going to second what achenatx said.

- Having smart locks means I don't have to give out keys, and I can change lock codes remotely.

- Having a smart thermostat means not only can I change it remotely (once they've checked or to prepare it before checking in), but I also get notified of when the HVAC isn't working. (For example, the ecobee will email you if it's been heating for a couple of hours and the temperature has dropped). This is absolutely necessary in climates with periods of extreme cold as that can cause burst pipes, which then damage everything.

- Smart smoke detectors, CO2 detectors can notify you of problems that you won't otherwise find out about in a timely manner, given you're not at the location.

- Sensors that detect flooding. We have a condo that has been flooded by upstairs tenants. Putting a moisture detector between the walls means we get notified of a small problem before it becomes a huge problem.

I think having a smart home is even more important for a property that you don't live at then one where you do.

Actively telling guests "We don't have hidden cameras" has got to be extremely off-putting. There is not a huge problem with hidden cameras. Just fine/arrest/ban the hosts who actually do it, given evidence that it is them doing it.

shawn-butler2• 7 years ago

> Just fine/arrest/ban the hosts who actually do it, given evidence that it is them doing it.

The Federal voyeurism act of 2004 made it illegal in the US to record video of someone without their consent when that person had a reasonable expectation of privacy [0]. Fines and up to one year in prison.

But I don't know of any actual convictions.

I bet if this happens in some jurisdiction with a politically ambitious prosecutor and the host were recording children then it will blow up.

[0] https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/108/s1301/text

ken2• 7 years ago

Something I discovered when working in technology is that anyone who said "just do ___" in a planning meeting was either brilliant, or drastically underestimated the scope of a task. Either way, the solution was the same. If you're the only person in the room who thinks a task is easy, you're assigned to that task.

How exactly do you plan to find identify all the hosts who do this?

JshWright2• 7 years ago

Apologies for my pet peeve, but it's CO, not CO2....

kemitche• 7 years ago

Actively telling guests "We don't have hidden cameras" has got to be extremely off-putting

It reminds me of, when I've been road-tripping, seeing billboards advertising "clean restrooms." I never know what to do with that info - trust it? Be more cautious of other places that don't advertise the cleanliness of their restrooms?

stronglikedan2• 7 years ago

are you going to...

Everything but the re-connect bit. If you re-connect everything, the owner won't get the message.

Godel_unicode2• 7 years ago

The message that you're kind of a jerk, and you think your opinion about their property is more valid than theirs even after you leave?

EGreg• 7 years ago

Why is everything in the cloud?

Why don’t we have some good software that will runt his stuff on our own servers locally?

I’m talking even mesh networking for the neighborhood, no Internet.

Is there any good software like that? For social networking, or parsing commands etc.

ekovarski2• 7 years ago

The guest expectation is that hotels and rentals don't have any hidden cameras. Stating that there are no cameras, while it is truthful, it has the opposite effect of what you are trying to achieve. This is why you don't see low-fat/low-sugar ice cream proclaiming that it won't make you fat on the box.

Riseed• 7 years ago

Explicitly mentioning “no cameras” is currently very off-putting because the expectation is that there are no cameras in private accommodations. It comes off as well as saying “We won’t file a frivolous damage claim against you.” That wasn’t something I was really worrying about, but, well, now I am.

There is one exception, and that is to clarify both where the cameras are and aren’t. Saying “We have a security camera over the garage door, but no cameras in the house” comes off much more sincerely.

elliekelly• 7 years ago

Agreed. This leads me to believe airbnb should add a question about this and force homeowners to answer it one way or another.

tenebrisalietum• 7 years ago

Outright specifying there are no cameras in the house may make you a target for bad actors looking for vulnerable properties.

This is something I would mention to people after they accept the rental agreement, preferably face to face.

If asked, I would say no cameras currently but planning to install by rent date, even if you end up not really doing it.

toss1• 7 years ago

Agree completely that having to scan for hidden bugs and cameras is a massive inconvenience. A relative just cancelled a month-long stay in an AirB&B after finding unnoticed cameras (and the rapidly increasing number of stories about this is pretty much putting me off the concept).

>"...and then re-connect everything when you leave" It seems to me that if I did use one, and found & disconnected some bugs, the last thing I'd do is reconnect them. I'd have no way to ensure that I reconnected everything properly, and they can fix their own damn setup. (TBH, I'd be more likely to take them and toss in the nearest trash bin -- what are they going to do, try and charge me for stealing their illegal bugging devices? I'm just taking out the trash.)

sasasassy• 7 years ago

Creepy

nfjdjajjdj• 7 years ago

There is no way I am staying at another Airbnb if there is a hotel.

Fuzzwah• 7 years ago

Because there's never been cameras hidden in hotel rooms...

luckylion3• 7 years ago

There might be, but personally, I feel better knowing that the hotel records 200 rooms any somebody might watch it if something is broken than thinking that some person sits in his car with his cellphone and is watching me.

And I'm pretty sure that it's less often in hotels as well - they are generally more professional. Well worth the extra bucks for me.

chronogram• 7 years ago

I don’t really see the value of AirBNB anyway. At least in Europe it takes hours to find a nice one, then you rate them and they rate you so hardly any rating is very accurate, the places never match exactly the description, and you need to book well in advance to not need a credit card.

My hotel experiences, on the other hand, are usually much nicer. On arrival I look at the maps app on my phone to find hotels near where I want to be at, I see ratings and price ranges, I walk in and can ask to see the room, talk to someone who’s always polite and often speaks good English, and pay with debit card and have 0 emails or texts or accounts from anyone about my stay.

AirBNB might be nice if you want a ton of space or for long durations. This is purely as a comparison to hotels. Does anyone have different experiences?

noja2• 7 years ago

AirBNB needs to show rating percentages, i.e. the % of people who _do_not_ leave a rating. Most people do not like to leave negative ratings.

AirBNB (Amazon too) also need to enforce normalized ratings. Another five star review? Either adjust all ratings to an agreed average (e.g. 3 stars) or let users "use up" their 5-star ratings allowance.

Simon_says• 7 years ago

At the same price point, AirBnB's have kitchens where hotels do not. If you cook it makes a big difference.

Kliment• 7 years ago

Kitchen makes an enormous difference, as mentioned in the sibling comment, and also they are often the only option in small towns. Even in medium-sized towns there might be only one hotel, next to the station, whereas you might want to be elsewhere. Sometimes you get lucky with an airbnb or similar in those cases.

michaelt• 7 years ago

Renting an apartment is the city equivalent of booking a chalet or villa at a different holiday location: You get multiple rooms, a kitchen and a fridge.

Obviously if you're travelling alone or with someone you're happy to share a bed with, that's irrelevant. But if your group has 3 people who would prefer not to share a room, a rented apartment works out cheaper than three hotel rooms.

saiya-jin• 7 years ago

Yes very different experience. Hotels are usually overpriced, especially if you travel in > 2. Hotels are much more 'soulless' copy paste, apartments usually have some hint of a 'soul' and better vibe. Kitchen is a massive plus. If you do leisure travel, hotels are 'bubbles' distant from locality, something I always enjoy experiencing. List is long, and always depends on specific place.

There are drawbacks to airbnb style, but positives more than counter-balance them.

shlant• 7 years ago

"Does anyone have different experiences?"

Having used AirBnb for 6+ years, yes. Without AirBnB, we probably would not be able to live the lifestyle we live (nomadic in SEA with 3 people, usually 2-6 months in a place)

The long durations and space are definitely something we need. Some other benefits I have found:

1. Kitchens. We can't live without a kitchen of decent size. Sink, full-ish fridge, counter space.

2. Lots of choice in terms of location/look/layout/price/etc. Hotels are mainly in tourist hubs, and in SEA, usually are either decently priced and of questionable quality or much more than we want to spend (especially once you factor in AirBnB monthly discounts).

3. I trust AirBnb customer service more than hotels. Most hotels in SEA aren't chains so you are at the whim of the owners. I have had nothing but good experiences with AirBnB customer service. They can be helpful when things are getting lost in translation as well.

4. Depending on the Host, Airbnb cancellation policies tend to be more flexible, and because it's not a chain, hosts are usually more accommodating. Less "I'm sorry sir, it's company policy".

5. Airbnb's interface tends to be much easier/nicer to use. Everything is in one place, you don't have various hotel booking sites to deal with, the map works really well and you can filter by many different criteria.

6. My wife loves searching through Airbnbs for treasure :)

matwood2• 7 years ago

I've stayed at VRBOs all over Europe, and they have mostly been good experiences. The main problem I run into is that checkin often takes longer than a hotel, but other than that they are mostly superior. As others have mentioned, they have kitchens, are in good locations, and are typically cheaper. They become much cheaper if traveling with friends where you may have needed multiple hotel rooms. So my current thinking is 1-2 night stay means hotel, but any longer and I start looking for AirBnbs.

I've also noticed that a lot of boutique hotels (5-10 rooms) often list on the VRBO sites now. The last time I was in Greece, all of my island accommodations were booked on VRBO type sites but were really just small hotels.

WhompingWindows• 7 years ago

Hotels feel bereft of charm and comfort, I prefer the home-y, personalized vibe of the 5 or so AirBNB's I've booked over the years. It's possible there were hidden cameras, yes, but is that not also possible in hotels? Either way, I don't get excited to potentially be snooped on, but I can't throw up a tent and camp any time and any place, so it's a trade-off.

sokoloff• 7 years ago

I love AirBnBs for personal travel and sometimes for business travel. Renting a house for a week with colleagues all working on a project gives a very different vibe (and is much more productive) than a series of hotel rooms where the only option to hang out (whether to work or to BS) is at a bar, the lobby, or in someone's room.

I'll take a living room, kitchen, and then a series of private bedrooms down the hall over that any day.

For personal travel, we've stayed in awesome city loft apartments, little cottage houses, and even a (no-kidding) tree house in Costa Rica. I like living a little closer to "local normal" rather than having a sterilized, sanitized, pre-packaged hotel room experience.

My good experiences outweigh bad at least 9:1 on AirBnB.

asark2• 7 years ago

Once you get past one kid, having a whole house when traveling is... the only thing that makes traveling seem tolerable, really. Some more touristy places have cabins and such, but in others it's AirBnB or nothing, except maybe some expensive townhouse-like hotels out near airports.

We've also used them for away-from-kids weekend retreats with other couples. Hotels wouldn't work at all, the whole point is to find some place pleasant to hang out in for a couple days, that's not your own house, and that can handle 4-6 people without feeling crowded. Hanging out in a hotel's just sad, not pleasant and relaxing, at least at prices we can afford.

eeeeeeeeeeeee• 7 years ago

Same here. Airbnb’s response to this problem is still completely insufficient. They have lost my trust. And I used to prefer Airbnb over hotels.

est313• 7 years ago

Hotels are overall probably more bugged than Airbnb's. The more expensive your room, the more likely it's going to be bugged. Especially in the capitals.

anbop• 7 years ago

Source? Bugged by ownership or rogue actors who book the room?

lixtra• 7 years ago

Did any HN reader ever find a camera. I typically do a half-hearted scan but never found anything suspicious.

matwood2• 7 years ago

Same. Much like card skimmers at ATMs and gas stations. I know they are out there, but I've never found one.

chatmasta• 7 years ago

Here's a hacker who found a skimmer and reverse engineered it. [0]

[0] https://trustfoundry.net/reverse-engineering-a-discovered-at...

russfink• 7 years ago

Besides owners, what about creeps that rent a place then leave devices behind? This affects hotels as well. That's my big fear.

plusbryan• 7 years ago

Agreed. A "guest" could target popular listings and hide a camera without the host knowing.

mrhappyunhappy• 7 years ago

Why do I get the feeling there is an underground market of sorts where people are paying to watch streams of hidden cameras in hotel rooms?

Whoops, don’t get any ideas now!

arkades• 7 years ago

I'm pretty sure there's a reddit dedicated to logging into people's purely secured home webcams.

icebraining4• 7 years ago

"In all, cameras are thought to have been installed in 42 rooms, across 30 hotels in 10 cities between November last year and this month. The suspects streamed 803 videos of people without their consent to a website with 4,000 members. "

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/21/18275530/south-korea-spyc...

PopeDotNinja2• 7 years ago

Another option is to choose not to be afraid. If one really care, get good at sweeping a place for cameras & remove the fear. If one is too lazy to sweep for cameras (like me!), decide to accept there's a low, non-zero chance that I'll get taped and move on.

"You've got a tape of me? Congratulations! Send me a copy. It's a good thing there wasn't a camera covering all of the apartment. I had a little digestion shenanigans going on, I'm glad there's no evidence I am the one who left that floor. I tried to clean it up, but I didn't have any industrial chemicals."

RankingMember2• 7 years ago

This perspective is fine if you're by yourself, but what if you've got kids with you?

ekovarski2• 7 years ago

Being secretly taped, esp in intimate moments, is a valid fear that many women have. It has long term repercussions on their life esp when the videos get shared.

I don't actively sweep rooms but I'd be lying if I didn't say I inspected something that looked out of place when staying with the family at hotels and rentals. When I am by myself, I am less paranoid about these issues.

usefulcat2• 7 years ago

It just occurred to me that there is a risk here for owners as well. A guest could install hidden cameras in a rental, then months later another guest might find them and would likely assume that the owner had installed them.

RankingMember2• 7 years ago

Definitely a valid fear. If I was airBnB-ing a place I'd def have to do a quick sweep for devices between tenants. With regard to hotels, I'm reminded of what happened to Erin Andrews[0], though that was targeted.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Andrews#Stalking_incident

dasKrokodil• 7 years ago

Don't worry, I'm sure the owners will catch them doing that via their own cameras.

philip1209• 7 years ago

You could also buy a FLIR device on Amazon (about $200). These devices give off heat. For instance, a smoke detector with a camera would give off a lot more heat than a normal smoke detector.

seanlinmt• 7 years ago

Scanning isn't going to work if its an IPv6 network. I would just use wireshark and the busy device would probably be your camera it it's on the network.

And probably don't use an IPv6 network if you're the host unless you want to hide a device on the network.

pcmaffey• 7 years ago

What then is the proper response upon finding a hidden camera in an airbnb?

userbinator• 7 years ago

Put tape over it.

mschuetz• 7 years ago

Something like this: https://youtu.be/wyx6JDQCslE?t=133

mavdi• 7 years ago

Just gonna add the "kinda NSFW" tag here. Hilarious nevertheless.

JustSomeNobody2• 7 years ago

Depends on state laws on video voyerism. Some states (all states?) it is illegal to put them in voyeuristic places (bathrooms, bedrooms). If that's where you find them, you could just call the authorities at that point.

shawn-butler2• 7 years ago

Illegal everywhere in the US since 2004: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/108/s1301/text

auiya• 7 years ago

There was a thread exactly like this on r/legaladvice from someone in WA. General consensus was to call police for record/case evidence, DO NOT TAMPER WITH DEVICE, call lawyer, proceed under lawyer's advice. https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/8f33z1/found_h...

Scoundreller2• 7 years ago

Turn out the lights and rub super glue over the lens?

AlexTWithBeard• 7 years ago

The article is nice, but some comments look strange:

Your experience, and informative blog post is a strong reminder to remain vigilant and aware.

That's... just weird?

Or it's just me being a paranoic with low empathy score?

tyingq• 7 years ago

Notice the name of a commenter links back to their blog. It's just not-so-subtle advertising. Post comments on popular blog posts, and maybe someone will click through to look at your stuff. Also often automated.

upofadown• 7 years ago

...or a clear substrate to see through.

Not always. An infrared filter could be used. Silicon sensors are quite sensitive to such wavelengths. So any shiny black surface could be a camera. Sometimes in the right light the filter might look sort of reddish.

michaelscott• 7 years ago

If this is the infrared sensor I think you mean, you can see these if you point a camera lens (like on your phone) at the surface; it will show up in red. You can try this with TV remotes that use infrared.

temo4ka• 7 years ago

Relevant article: How to Find Hidden Cameras and Spy Gear [1] and HN discussion [2].

[1] https://www.senteltechsecurity.com/blog/post/how-to-find-hid... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18926264

pbhjpbhj2• 7 years ago

Perhaps we should just learn to live with being watched. The corollary is we have to learn to accept others normal human behaviours, so that images of us scratching our arse and then sniffing our fingernails don't really seem remarkable and aren't limiting in job prospects and such ...

Only half joking.

There's a aphorism "if life gives you storms, learn to dance in the rain". If life gives you voyeurs learn to dance naked and not care???

bspammer• 7 years ago

That's all well and good until they decide to blackmail you, or post the video on the internet.

trevyn• 7 years ago

If the camera is streaming or recording video, then it is likely to be significantly warmer than ambient; a thermal camera (they’re not super-expensive these days) should easily reveal hotspots.

dqpb• 7 years ago

AirBnB should require hosts explicitly list the locations of all cameras in plain text in the description and renters should have to explicitly accept that they consent to the surveillance

munk-a4• 7 years ago

I disagree, they should have a dedicated section for hosts to list out all their cameras and classify them by location. Add some legal nonsense and AirBnB could, at the very least, get all bad acting hosts via a breach of contract if they're caught and local laws don't allow any better prosecution.

And it's absolutely to their benefit, AirBnB has enough publicity problems without being known as a source of scummy videos.

schwank• 7 years ago

A couple weeks back we were on vacation in Hawaii, and one night at dinner the table of San Diegans next to us was having a rather loud and animated conversation. It seems they had rented out their property back home on Airbnb and they very clearly talked about not disclosing the cameras they had onsite to the tenants.

The tenants had discovered at least the doorbell camera and covered it up, to which the owners were not pleased and were debating calling the police on the tenant.

We were aghast at their complete lack of knowledge regarding undisclosed video surveillance of tenants and the violation of airbnb policy. My wife badly wanted to interject but we let it go. We did talk about how to mitigate these threats, made for some interesting vacation dinner conversation though.

true_religion2• 7 years ago

If the doorbell camera was facing into the outside, then I am not sure what grounds the tenants have to complain. Hotels and apartments can and do monitor public areas.

Teever2• 7 years ago

I'm not sure what grounds the renters have to complain about this either.

Is there some sort of law or rule obligating tenants to keeping the view of cameras unobstructed?

doomjunky• 7 years ago

The Airbnb rules for hosts: If you’re a host and you have any type of surveillance device in or around a listing, even if it’s not turned on or hooked up, we require that you indicate its presence in your House Rules. We also require you to disclose if an active recording is taking place.

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/887/what-are-airbnb-s-ru...

feistypharit• 7 years ago

I always run the fing app to scan the WiFi at any rental I stay at. It's neat to see what all is connected. I assume if someone is smart enough to properly segment the network or enable AP isolation to hide devices, they've put in the time to do it right.

I also run a rental, and that's has lead to a creep in new smart home devices. It came with a smart Lock and thermostat. I added a zwave card to control the lock remotely. Added motion sensors, doors sensors, leak detectors. It is nice to have such things when random people are staying in a place you own. I use a wyze cam in the basement (locked to renters) to monitor for fire alarms and keep and eye on cleaning folks. But would never install a camera while the unit is rented. I do have one in the off season...as the home sits mostly vacant for 6 months.

JudgeWapner2• 7 years ago

Amazing how seriously people take their privacy when it's AirBnB violating it, but simply accept the systematic privacy violations done by their government.

How to increase your chances of finding a hidden camera

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