Ice confirmed at the Moon’s poles

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-ice-moon-poles.amp

by daegloe • 8 years ago

239 91 8 years ago

excalibur4• 8 years ago

With enough ice sitting at the surface—within the top few millimeters—water would possibly be accessible as a resource for future expeditions to explore and even stay on the Moon, and potentially easier to access than the water detected beneath the Moon's surface.

OR: It could be collected, shipped back to earth, bottled, and sold to the wealthy at ludicrous prices.

dawnerd• 8 years ago

I think the wealthy would rather take a vacation to the moon.

excalibur4• 8 years ago

Likely, but the ice-mining scheme will be much easier to pull off, and will therefore be possible sooner, and is therefore more likely to be the primary means by which these resources are exploited.

antisthenes• 8 years ago

Imagine how much you could charge for return tickets.

Apocryphon• 8 years ago

I doubt it. It lacks atmosphere.

Symmetry3• 8 years ago

A local source of water would make the hotel much cheaper to run.

test65542• 8 years ago

I went on a vacation to Bora Bora once and upon seeing restaurant prices of $40 per person I walked two miles to the grocery store, bought a pack of hot dogs for $15 and boiled them in the coffee pot. I am not sure what food would cost on the moon, but I would definitely bring hot dogs.

I am technically considered wealthy (3% or higher). But definitely clip coupons and save money where I can.

strainer• 8 years ago

I like the idea of sploooshing around in a sublunarrean swimming pool at 1/6th g.

PhasmaFelis2• 8 years ago

“We’re taking waters. Would you like a water?”

“Why not?” said Novak.

Daizaburo signaled a crab. It began speaking Nihongo. “English, please,” said Daizaburo.

“Antarctic glacier water,” offered the crab. “A deep core from Pleistocene deposits. Entirely unpolluted, undisturbed since the dawn of humanity. Profoundly pure.”

“What a delightful conceit,” said Novak. “Very Vietti.”

“We have lunar water,” said the crab. “Very interesting isotopic properties.”

“Did you ever drink water from the moon, my dear?” Novak asked her.

Maya shook her head.

“We’ll have the lunar water,” Novak ordered.

--Bruce Sterling, Holy Fire.

(I should really reread that. Thanks for reminding me!)

madza• 8 years ago

Forgive me. It’s been stuck at the back of my brain for 30 years now.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0087451/

Bluestrike22• 8 years ago

That trailer's voiceover is so cheesy, I have to hunt down the movie and watch it. And the movie poster: "See...Great Special Affects!" Clearly, the producers had a lot of self-awareness.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0087451/mediaviewer/rm3916634368

mixmastamyk• 8 years ago

John Matuszak… had forgotten the guy existed, brings back some memories.

onemoresoop2• 8 years ago

Even sand from the moon would sell for a lot of buck, no need to transport that little water from the moon to Earth where it's abundant, but im sure people would buy end drink that for ridiculous amounts of money.

hyperpallium• 8 years ago

Your own Personal Moon Sand is incredibly precious... and incredibly attractive to thieves. Let us store it for you. And what safer place to store it than the Moon? And why go there when it would only facilitate theft of your own Personal Moon Sand? Taking orders now.

Nomentatus3• 8 years ago

Wrong journey, nobody's contemplated that. The idea is taking water from the Moon to space, rather than earth water to space at vastly greater fuel cost.

throwaway66666• 8 years ago

Forget about Lunar Water man, that's so 2002.

Let's distill moon stuff and make MOON BEER and MOON VODKA.

Oh yeah, <<Celebrate with a shot of "Yuri G." the world's first and finest Moon Vodka>>

BWStearns• 8 years ago

"the worlds' first and finest Moon Vodka"

ftfy

samstave• 8 years ago

It comes with a bent swizzle spoon just to confuse people.

_mrmnmly• 8 years ago

I see the slogans now: "same great Vyatutas, but from space!"

joss82• 8 years ago

That would be... a moon shot.

baxtr• 8 years ago

Just got off the phone with Elon, he’s on it...

test65542• 8 years ago

Fiji Water already exists.

cgriswald• 8 years ago

OR, we could call it H2Moon and heavily imply it is moon water but actually just source it from the local water and run it through a filter, even during droughts.

ianai• 8 years ago

When can we start?

JumpCrisscross• 8 years ago

we could call it H2Moon

The real winner is steak from a cow entirely raised on the stuff. H2Moos.

siruncledrew• 8 years ago

Nestle is going to try to buy Moon land now.

F_r_k• 8 years ago

If it funds space exploration and development, why not ?

h4b4n3r0• 8 years ago

Another cool thing one could build on the moon is a rail cannon to bombard Earth. Moon's gravity well makes it relatively easy to hurl stuff from there to here, and the stuff _accelerates_ as it approaches Earth, assisted by earth gravity. The scenario is explored in detail in Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".

coolaliasbro• 8 years ago

"...sold to the residents of Flint at ludicrous prices." FTFY

akshayB• 8 years ago

Just a question, is there any reason why whenever we detect frozen water its on the north pole or south pole of any circular object in solar system? I guess ones of them is sun heating up everything in the equator region.

_bxg1• 8 years ago

That's... pretty much the only reason you need. No heat == cold. If you were asking why the poles are always aligned such that they don't point at the sun, https://www.quora.com/Why-do-most-planets-in-our-solar-syste...

glitchc• 8 years ago

brundolf's response plus atmosphere, which can diffuse energy from near the equator to other parts of the planet via convection, although Venus ice caps are still colder than Earth's, so not sure anymore... The universe is a complex place.

jacobush• 8 years ago

The ice caps hiding under an atmosphere of burning sulphuric acid at hundreds of degrees!?

PhasmaFelis2• 8 years ago

You've pretty much nailed it. In the high latitudes, sunlight strikes the ground at a steep angle, so there's less of it per square inch. If that leads to the temperature staying below freezing year-round, you get permanent ice caps.

(I think there's an extra twist on the Moon; the lack of atmosphere means that direct sunlight is blazingly hot even at the poles, but also that shadowed areas stay much much cooler since there's no moving air to distribute the heat evenly. Lunar ice doesn't form a continuous cap, but nestles in the bottoms of polar craters where the light never reaches.)

Symmetry3• 8 years ago

That's true in the inner system but by the time you get to around Jupiter the Sun is dim enough that you can have ice on the surface of bodies without atmospheres.

jaequery• 8 years ago

Wasn't this confirmed several years ago?

kartan• 8 years ago

From the article: "M3, aboard the Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft, launched in 2008 by the Indian Space Research Organization, was uniquely equipped to confirm the presence of solid ice on the Moon. It collected data that not only picked up the reflective properties we'd expect from ice, but was able to directly measure the distinctive way its molecules absorb infrared light, so it can differentiate between liquid water or vapor and solid ice."

Another source: "near the south pole of the Moon on 9 October 2009 showed the spectral signature of hydroxyl, a key indicator that water ice is present in the floor of the crater (1). Analysis of the results indicates concentrations of roughly 6% water in the impact area, including nearly pure ice crystals in some spots. "

https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/ice/ice_moon.html

subcosmos• 8 years ago

Good. We need strong customs enforcement there too. </snark>

ionwake• 8 years ago

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

Skunkleton2• 8 years ago

    $ base64 -d ~/tmp/wtf.txt
    uZbase64: invalid input

Edit: I suck and forgot to remove the leading stuff. I love the internet today. If anyone is wondering it is SFW.

TheAceOfHearts• 8 years ago

For anyone curious: if you copy and paste this in your browser's URL bar it should display the image properly.

ReverseCold• 8 years ago

But... why?

I guess there's no chance of link rot this way...

modells• 8 years ago

So moon crater ice sublimates slow enough to not disappear a-la Europa?

Nomentatus3• 8 years ago

That was my argument, before this article was published. The counter argument of course, is that it does sublimate (as water does from comets), but there's a vast amount (remains of a crashed comet, say); plus dust accumulating on the surface seals it fairly well over time. So I'm now guessing we're not talking "a few millimeters of water" as others have speculated, but really large amounts.

Aspos3• 8 years ago

So, moon base at a pole can have: 1. Direct sunlight at all times 2. Direct LOS comms to Earth 3. Access to water.

Am I correct?

kajecounterhack• 8 years ago

Wrong on #1: moon doesn't have direct sunlight at all times.

https://imgur.com/a/rOyNvDG

Aspos3• 8 years ago

Aren't poles always illuminated?

BurningFrog• 8 years ago

Direct sunlight: Wikipedia says maybe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_of_eternal_light#On_the_M...

mirimir2• 8 years ago

I wonder why it took several years for this analysis to be done and published. I mean, the data was presumably collected during 2008-2010 or so.

InclinedPlane2• 8 years ago

It's almost as though science is a complex job that occasionally requires a lot of work.

mirimir2• 8 years ago

Sure, but eight years?

Edit: What I'm getting at is that this seems a profound result, with perhaps crucial implications. Not some minor detail, of only arcane interest.

tripzilch• 8 years ago

I'm just guessing but doesn't astronomy usually have way more data than the scientific field has manpower to process and analyse it?

firefoxd• 8 years ago

Can we sand someone to double check it?

Joking aside, wow, why can't we send someone to double check it 60 years later.

Jdam• 8 years ago

I was promised Moon bases, farms and hotels by now and all we got is the information that there’s ice at the poles?!

ddingus2• 8 years ago

Water = fuel as much as it is important to life.

Weaker gravity well + infrastructure should = cheaper exploration.

anonytrary2• 8 years ago

This is interesting, I didn't think of it like that. You're saying the moon should be used as a base because less energy is required to leave the moon. I wonder if those savings amortize the up-front cost of creating a self-sufficient moon base.

ddingus2• 8 years ago

I do too. Making that base practical and viable may include too many nasty details. I don"t know.

idoescompooters• 8 years ago

How does it not sublimate?

Ice confirmed at the Moon’s poles

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