Spectrum internet is getting kicked out of New York

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/27/17622846/spectrum-charter-cable-internet-new-york-kicked-out

by LopRabbit • 8 years ago

148 148 8 years ago

snowpanda• 8 years ago

Time Warner Cable has been awful since Spectrum got a hold of it. I didn't have a problem for many years, now I can't even get a customer service rep on the line. I keep getting robocalls about my "upcoming bill". Rates have gone up. Amount of plans have decreased... The list goes on.

heywire• 8 years ago

Here in Ohio I've had the opposite experience, with the exception of the cost going up. I was one of the ones who would make my annual call to Time Warner to "threaten to cancel" in exchange for another year of discounted service (usually $40 or $45/mo for 30mbit). Spectrum doesn't play that game, so I'm paying $65/mo, but I'm also receiving 100mbit service (where I normally see ~120mbit). I haven't had a single outage since the switch over, but that could also be attributed to the replacement of the old cable modem for a shiny new DOCSIS 3.0 model to support the higher speeds.

As far as robocalls, I had them before, and I still have them now. At least once a month they call me and try to sell me on some other service of theirs. Luckily they use the same phone number on caller ID, so I can avoid the calls.

bogomipz7• 8 years ago

"Time Warner Cable has been awful since Spectrum got a hold of it"

I think there are many who would argue they were awful long before the Spectrum rebranding. I had the misfortune of using their service some years ago. Not that I had any choice as there is no other choice in most areas there.

holtalanm• 8 years ago

Opposite experience in Lincoln, NE.

Probably not because of the merger, though. We have a local company that rolled out fiber in town that is eating their lunch in subscribers, and it is beautiful to see.

Spectrum raised their base speed to 100 Mbps recently, and our local company raised their base to 300Mbps like "checkmate".

Loving ALLO: https://www.allocommunications.com/

wj• 8 years ago

I get multiple calls and two-second blank voice mails a day (and have for months) from a number that a Google search says is Spectrum. I'm not a customer but they sure are persistent in trying to make me one as I get two or three offers in the mail a week as well.

tnuc• 8 years ago

I live in New York and the only provider is spectrum. Yesterday I (and all my neighbors) got a letter from Optimum, offering better prices and higher bandwidth. After calling Optimum I got told that Optimum doesn't service my area.

Is this a new type of turf war?

walrus014• 8 years ago

Speaking as an ISP: I would guess more of a fuckup in a database merge for a direct mail campaign. They know what zip codes are their turf and where they have right-of-way, and don't want to waste money on USPS bulk mail targeting people they can't serve. As an example Seattle is a patchwork quilt of either Wave or Comcast cablemodem service areas, it would be pretty rare to see a Comcast solicitation in areas where the cable plant is entirely owned by Wave. Or vice versa.

Analemma_• 8 years ago

I don't think it's perfect even in Seattle. My building is served exclusively by Wave and Comcast won't do hookups, but I still get their junk mail.

lylecubed10• 8 years ago

You've posted about ISP related things in the past. How viable do you think it would be to start a WISP in rural New York State? I'm mostly interested in last mile rural stuff (I don't like cities), but from the looks of the rest of this thread it would probably be more profitable to start a WISP in NYC itself.

JumpCrisscross5• 8 years ago

Spectrum is funny. They kept raising my rates, randomly, every 6 months. And every 6 months I’d threaten to cancel.

Finally, I got irritated and penned letters to my state AG and state Senator. Spectrum went into overdrive. Credited a year of service, wanted me to get on a conference call with their GC, a voicemail wishing me happy birthday (super weird).

Should have sensed their vulnerability.

m_ke• 8 years ago

I only get weekly calls from them begging me to add cable to my internet package. Conveniently they do it during work hours and use a different number each time.

Rebelgecko• 8 years ago

They've started calling me using a number in my phone's area code (instead of an 800 number or one of the area codes common where I live). I've heard of scammers using this technique so I was surprised to see a major company doing it

wingspar• 8 years ago

Spectrum here in FL started calling me after we went to just internet with their streaming tv package.

Their calls have the obligatory “this call may be recorded for training...”

Guy says “Hello”, I say “I do not consent to be recorded”. Guy says goodbye and haven’t been called back since.

j88439h84• 8 years ago

Fascinating.

Did you tell spectrum you had written to the AG and senator? What prompted Spectum's response?

Who left the birthday message, or was it automated?

JumpCrisscross5• 8 years ago

Did you tell spectrum you had written to the AG and senator?

When the deputy AG responded, they copied Charter (this is standard for regulatory complaints).

legohead• 8 years ago

Curious, did you CC Spectrum on your letters, or did they find out after being contacted by your AG/Senator?

antsar2• 8 years ago

Would you mind sharing more about the content/format of your letter? Verizon has hiked my rates a few times (with no improvement in service, naturally), so I'm wondering what to write if it happens again. Does needlessly increasing rates violate some law/statute?

ada19812• 8 years ago

Same. Please post a PDF of your communication strategy.

JumpCrisscross5• 8 years ago

Would you mind sharing more about the content/format of your letter?

Sure! I filed a complaint with the Bureau of Internet & Technology under New York's Attorney General [1]. I've pasted the redacted text below.

"In 2017 I called Spectrum because the rate we were being billed ($104.99) was higher than what we had signed up for (around $80) and more than the rate on Spectrum's Residential Rate Card Information & Disclosure for our apartment (https://www.spectrum.com/browse/content/ratecard.html). I was told, on the phone, that the rate would be lowered to $89.99 per month.

On February 20th, 2018 I was charged $104.99 by Spectrum. I called and was told that my billing information would be changed to $89.99 for future bills (see Change of Service Confirmation, attached).

On March 2nd, 2018 we received a bill for $104.99, due March 18th, 2018. I called (855) 243-8892, the support phone number provided on Spectrum's website (https://www.spectrum.com/contact-us.html), and spoke with [PERSON] (employee number [redacted]). [PERSON] acknowledged the Change of Service Confirmation, and said a technical error had prevented my billing information from being able to be updated. [PERSON] discussed the matter with one of her supervisors, [SUPERVISOR], who said a technician needed to visit my apartment to replace my modem. Until this visit was done, the billing information could not be changed. I asked [PERSON] for anything in writing confirming that after an in-person visit, my billing information would be updated. [PERSON] said she was technically unable to fulfill that request. [PERSON] then said a technical issue prevented her from scheduling a technician visit to my apartment."

...

I then called my State Senator’s office and asked who deals with telecom policy. Got their name and sent them a copy of the complaint along with a very brief cover letter.

[1] https://formsnym.ag.ny.gov/OAGOnlineSubmissionForm/faces/OAG...

maxxxxx4• 8 years ago

I used to have Time Warner with a 3mb plan for $15. After the Spectrum takeover I can keep my plan but the next level is $70. There is nothing cheaper. I would like to get something a little faster but I have no need for 100mb at $70 which is the only option I have. Its really annoying that there is zero competition. Spectrum knows exactly that a lot of people will get a connection that's way too fast for them and more expensive but they have no choice.

And every month I get several cheerful letters about "deals" that aren't deals. I really hate Spectrum.

JumpCrisscross5• 8 years ago

100mb at $70

I pay $90 for 400/20 in Manhattan. $70 for 100 Mbps is insane.

maxxxxx4• 8 years ago

Is there a cheaper option for you? They can offer 10000/10009 but I don't need it. I want something cheaper.

btgeekboy• 8 years ago

The cost per megabit isn’t really comparable across ISPs. They use it more as a market segmentation than anything else.

In Seattle, I get 100mbps for $60. Or 1000 for $80. (Paying $90 for only 20 up is insane ;)

agotterer• 8 years ago

I pay $69 to fios for gigabit in Manhattan

bas• 8 years ago

Same with the 400/20 in Manhattan. Mind you, I’m probably a sports whale (cable bill is > $200), but I don’t have any service complaints. Also, my “Spectrum plan” is cheaper the my old “TWC plan”. Honestly, if Charter sold the rest of the state and kept NYC I would be okay with that.

cimmanom4• 8 years ago

Are you in a location where FIOS is an option? Where it’s not, TWC will typically charge $90/mo for 50 down.

abawany• 8 years ago

I am on the same plan too though they raised my rate to $20. Such a small world - I didn't think anyone else in the world had this TW legacy plan. AT&T has been really evil to me so I will avoid them as much as I can - Spectrum by comparison has been 'reasonable'.

bogomipz7• 8 years ago

Verizon also failed to deliver albeit at the city level in, in NYC. The city sued by there has been no such attempt to revoke their charter as far as I have heard:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/nyregion/ny-sues-verizon-...

huebnerob• 8 years ago

This is only happening to charter because it was a clause written into their recent large merger with TWC. I don't think the state would have such broad latitude to revoke any other ISPs license to operate.

Verizon was at least smarter about being technically correct, they apparently ran fiber "past every household in the city". The joke probably being, good fucking luck getting your building hooked up to it. If they'd even do it, it'd probably cost you thousands

bogomipz7• 8 years ago

Sure I wasn't implying the state could do it buy NYC could pull Verizon's FIOS franchise agreement with the city in a similar fashion:

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doitt/downloads/pdf/verizon_nyc_...

rayiner11• 8 years ago

It blows my mind that people act like Verizon is running fiber past households then refusing to service them for funsies. Passing a household costs more than building the final bit of fiber to the house. It makes no sense for Verizon to pass a bunch of households then not try to recoup that money by hooking up service. The reason for the delay is because New York (particularly New York landlords) are a total nightmare to deal with.

sjdbwixb• 8 years ago

I had TWC/Spectrum and it was cheaper and faster then the Comcast I get now after moving. What does the state plan on doing for all the millions of people who only had TWC/Spectrum? Maybe they should invite more competitors in rather than kicking them out.

reaperducer3• 8 years ago

Maybe they should invite more competitors in rather than kicking them out.

Gotta kick one out to make room for the other. New York isn't about to let every ISP in the nation run independent lines over all of the poles in the state.

The good thing is that when the replacement company steps up (or wins the bid), it will know that the state is serious about keeping obligations.

OTOH, this might be when we find out just how much collusion there is between the big companies, if none decide to fill the gap, thus putting pressure on the AG from the voters.

mmt3• 8 years ago

New York isn't about to let every ISP in the nation run independent lines over all of the poles in the state.

Why not? I would expect the barrier to entry there to be the expense of doing so, not regulatory refusal.

It makes sense for a regulator to require "universal" coverage and prohibit cherry-picking only the profitable areas, which brings the cost barrier back into focus. However, encouraging a monopology would seem to encourage a similar result.

Has the state actually expressed or implied such a policy?

cimmanom4• 8 years ago

Maybe an appropriate recourse here, then, would be to force Spectrum to rent access to their lines so that all consumers have a choice?

chrismartin4• 8 years ago

Direct link to the (scathing!) press release: http://www3.dps.ny.gov/pscweb/WebFileRoom.nsf/ArticlesByCate...

As a consumer, this transition will be annoying to deal with, but as a resident, I'm proud of my state for pushing expansion of rural broadband where federal efforts have failed. Not sure how the transition will work though, as Spectrum/TWC own the cable infrastructure.

Spectrum has sent a veritable tree's worth of junk mail to my house in the past year, goading me to sign up for their television and landline phone bundle. Spectrum, please die quickly.

danharaj• 8 years ago

Spectrum will have to spin off their NYC operations.

bradleyjg2• 8 years ago

I'm proud of my state for pushing expansion of rural broadband where federal efforts have failed.

Not me. I live in a small apartment that I pay tens of thousands of dollars a year for. In Franklin County people can get a lot more space for a lot less money. Why should I subsidize their broadband rather than them subsidizing my living space?

Life is all about tradeoffs. Wanting to get all the benefits of your choices and have other people pay to ameliorate the downsides is understandable but unreasonable.

If we are going to subsidize broadband at all, we should do it statewide and means test it.

lovich• 8 years ago

Communication is integral to society. Haveing a different class of communication technology that is not accessible by a large portion of the population pushes the haves and have nots apart

ghaff• 8 years ago

Long ago we decided as a country there were significant collective benefits to near-universal electrification and phone service. Internet is a bit more complicated for various reasons such as wireless options but there’s at least an argument for government rural broadband initiatives.

chrismartin4• 8 years ago

This isn't a subsidy. It's an effort to redirect some of Charter's ~$10B yearly profit[0] toward public benefit, in exchange for allowing further consolidation of local monopolies (which would otherwise amplify potential for abuse of market power).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_Communications

mcny2• 8 years ago

If we are going to subsidize broadband at all, we should do it statewide and means test it.

This makes me sad. We need less means testing, not more. I fully support a more progressive tax scheme but we should eliminate means testing from government services.

madengr3• 8 years ago

I really wish they’d specify the upload BW. I have 100/5 service, and it sucks due to the 5.

pnutjam• 8 years ago

I would have whined about that as well, but then I tried rural "broadband"...

brightball3• 8 years ago

It’s so strange to read this. Where I live, Charter Spectrum is virtually celebrated as awesome. My bill for internet has barely increased at all over the past 10 years but on multiple occasions they have contacted me to upgrade my service for free. Even replaced my cable modem at one point.

I’ve gone from 15 to 30 to 60 to 100 and I’m currently at 200. There’s probably been two outages during that entire time period.

I see so many people in other parts of the country complaining about their providers and it makes me realize how good we have it here. ATT is still terrible though.

leetbulb2• 8 years ago

Charter, Spectrum, Charter Spectrum, whatever the hell it is now, stopped offering 300Mbps in my area about a year ago (from what I've been told: due to low demand). However, they allowed my account to remain at 300Mbps, likely because I've never had a contract with them. Ever since then, they've hiked my bill up about $50 in $10 increments. I can only assume they want me to ditch it for their "Supreme Ultimate God-Tier Just-Enough-Of-A-Contract-To-Fuck-You-Shall-You-Cancel Phone, Internet, and Hulu Streaming Bundle Bonanza" package that they keep sending me extremely-official-looking snail-mail for. Whenever I call to ask why I'm being charged more, they give me the runaround and have even told me to downgrade my internet package. I'm not playing their little game... I'll hopefully be ditching them all together soon. I wish the FTC, BBB, etc gave a shit about these practices...it's sad. /rant

macNchz• 8 years ago

Very quickly after my TWC connection became Spectrum my rate for 50 megabit internet in Brooklyn went from $40/mo to $65/mo and I am absolutely bombarded with various forms of deceptive marketing junk mail trying to get me to upgrade to some bundled TV/phone package. I disliked Time Warner's marketing beforehand but Spectrum really took it to a new level.

kalleboo• 8 years ago

Where I live

Is where you live NYC? The quality of service of US ISPs seems to vary largely depending on how much local competition there is.

cjf4• 8 years ago

As a consumer, this transition will be annoying to deal with, but as a resident, I'm proud of my state for pushing expansion of rural broadband where federal efforts have failed. Not sure how the transition will work though, as Spectrum/TWC own the cable infrastructure.

There isn't going to be a transition, at least not in the short term, as this will likely be tied up in the courts for some time, and probably settled.

bogomipz7• 8 years ago

I am curious what happens to their assets in the state after their charter is revoked? This would leave large swaths of that state without TV and Internet no?

UncleEntity• 8 years ago

...but the state is asking it to come up with a transition plan.

Apparently they need to come up with some orderly plan and not just give them a nice "f-you, its been fun."

Not too sure how motivated they'll be for it to be orderly as they have zero incentive for it to be though...

bogomipz7• 8 years ago

Well if they just abandoned it they would be leaving a lot of money on the table. They own all that cable plant, the head ends, etc. I don't think they can afford to do that.

totoglazer• 8 years ago

Fuck Spectrum. They are just awful. The jack your rates, don't follow through, and are so awful to deal with I just am kind of resigned to it. I think Fios may be here soon. They can't be worse, can they?

shoguning• 8 years ago

As bad as it is, how can decreasing the number of competitors increase the quality of options for consumers? Are they preventing other companies from operating?

eyeinthepyramid• 8 years ago

Since cable companies are already a monopoly, they aren't really decreasing the number of competitors. They are just replacing the one incredibly bad ISP with a somewhat less bad one.

JshWright2• 8 years ago

You're "fortunate" to live in a Verizon area where Fios is even a "may be". Our local phone company is Windstream, and they can offer you a a whole 15Mbps (as long as you don't live too far from the office...).

mikeash• 8 years ago

I’ve had Fios for about five years and I’ve been pretty happy with it. Reliability is good, support isn’t completely useless, and be price is not bad at all. I’m currently paying $80/month for “gigabit” which is actually 940/940 or something like that. They also offer 100/100 for $40.

Perhaps the best part is that they just give you an Ethernet connection. You can bring your own router and there’s no need for any sort of modem.

ryantheguy• 8 years ago

I seem to have the opposite experience of people in this thread. I'm down in southern California using Spectrum and they have by far the best rates. 100 Mbps for $40/mo. I suppose there is a lot more competition for internet out here than average though.

bytematic• 8 years ago

They just upped mine to 200Mbps at 40$/mo for free in the northern midwest. I went on their website and it was the advertised rate so I emailed there support and they restarted my modem. Make sure to check every once in a while!

mrpippy• 8 years ago

Is that just a promotional rate though? I live in Orange County and the list price for 100 Mbps is $65 (and my area has actual competition from FiOS). The promo rates are good, but they'll expire after a year and unlike TWC, Spectrum won't just renew at promo rates forever. You either have to cancel and re-sign up, or just pay list price.

j0e13• 8 years ago

My spectrum bill rocketed after the 1st year and after numerous unpleasant long calls with their representatives, I haven't been given any viable option. They keep forcing me to take their cable connection which would 'lower' my rates for the internet connection but I would end up paying them more than for just an internet connection.

The saddest revelation through all this is that I couldn't find any other provider in my area (DTLA) which can promise me 100Mbps. I'm stuck with them and I'm not a happy customer! I so wish there were other competing ISPs in this area..

lylecubed10• 8 years ago

At least you're getting 100Mbps. I'm one of the original TWC customers who refuse to switch over to their new "no contract" plans because I don't want them to jump my rates like they did yours. Their retaliation? I get 10Mbps down, 1Mbps up. No speed upgrade for me.

Nothing else in my area gets even close to 100Mbps either. I hope NYS can work something out or I'm going to have to move.

j0e13• 8 years ago

I hope NYS can work something out or I'm going to have to move.

I share your sentiments.. In my mind decent internet access is more of a right than an accessory today. Those without it are disproportionately disadvantaged in numerous ways. I can imagine doing something drastic, in protest, if I'm pushed.

maxerickson2• 8 years ago

Is the contract for 10 Mbps?

Why should they do more than honor the contract if you demand to stick with it?

goeric2• 8 years ago

I have AT&T Gigafiber (1000mbps) not too far from you in Echo Park. Maybe they offer it in DTLA? I'm only paying $80/m.

j0e13• 8 years ago

AT&T fiber doesn't offer services in my area. Calls with them is another story.. After booking my connection with them twice and them not doing anything about it, they finally tell me that they can only provide a satellite connection which doesn't meet my speed requirements.

ThatPlayer• 8 years ago

How is that? I'm considering switching over from Charter.

PenguinCoder• 8 years ago

This has been my experience as well. And they damn well know there's no other options. Multiple sites, articles and people say 'call every six months and threaten to cancel for a lower rate' in my area, the reps will gladly cancel your subscription with no hesitation or attempt for retention. Just 'okay you want to cancel, sounds good. Return our equipment and bye, good luck'. At the same time, my bill continues to rise with no explanation of why. America, especially rural America, needs more options for compition in this space.

JohnTHaller• 8 years ago

Like many folks living in NYC, Spectrum is my only choice for broadband. The only other option is Verizon DSL with "up to" 7Mbps. If this transition causes issues for my internet, I'm screwed.

JshWright2• 8 years ago

At least you have that... there are many places outside the city (it's a big state) where 7Mbps would be very welcome.

btown2• 8 years ago

I feel like the political implications of this aren't being discussed.

So the 60 day period after which Spectrum would cease operations seems to end September 25, a week before online voter registration ends for the November elections... and even independent of that, it's at a critical moment for campaigning.

For many without a fiber connection in the NYC area, Optimum is now the only game in town, and it has no reason not to price gouge (there's no regulation forcing them to offer now-unnecessary promotional pricing to people). So many low-income people in old housing may need to go without internet and cable during the time immediately preceding the elections. Yes, most phones have data plans nowadays, but quick question: how many people do you know who would be able to print the PDF voter registration form easily from their computer, but would have no idea how to do so from their phone, and can't figure out how to set up a hotspot?

Imagine if New York were a swing state - it's normally not. On the one hand, you're making it suddenly more difficult to register to vote last-minute; that's not necessarily voter suppression, but it certainly smells like it. On the other hand, you're suddenly raising the effective price of (for example) Fox News/MSNBC, their online presences, access to Facebook on desktop computers (where ads are more prevalent), and streaming access to both Alex Jones and Bill Maher. You're cutting people off from information that reinforces their world view, and (gasp) they may need to watch basic cable, the most "mainstream" of mainstream media, while eating breakfast. That's ridiculously impactful.

Perhaps some of these concerns are overblown. Perhaps Optimum will, um, optimize for long-term goodwill and provide a reasonable upgrade path. But at the very least, we should be discussing these implications.

astronautjones• 8 years ago

to both Alex Jones and Bill Maher.

what a ridiculously false equivalency

btown2• 8 years ago

Fair. I wanted to phrase my comment in a way that would be colorfully illustrated but not single out a specific political viewpoint. However, it is monumentally difficult to find a media personality on the left as dedicated to discrediting scientific consensus as Alex Jones. I chose the most outspoken left-leaning voice I could think of at the time.

Any lack of equivalency, though, should not reflect on the merit of the underlying issue: that a decision to cut off a vital service provider is not without political consequences.

chrismartin4• 8 years ago

From the actual press release:

During the transition process, Charter must continue to comply with all local franchises it holds in New York State and all obligations under the Public Service Law and the Commission regulations. Charter must ensure no interruption in service is experienced by customers, and, in the event that Charter does not do so, the Commission will take further steps, including seeking injunctive relief in Supreme Court in order to protect New York consumers.

walrus014• 8 years ago

So the 60 day period after which Spectrum would cease operations seems to end September 25

I can guarantee you they're not trying to force them to cease operations. There are too many people with triple-play voip and ATA-to-SIP adapters that handle 911/E911 calls to do that.

They are trying to force them to sell the regional ex-TWTC cable assets they acquired in the merger, to another cable operator.

The likelihood of anyone at charter being told to shut off network interfaces/shut off the network in general is about zero percent.

cimmanom4• 8 years ago

There were already plenty of locations where TWC/Spectrum was the only option available. The cable companies have each had neighborhood-level monopolies for as long as I can remember.

js2• 8 years ago

NC rolled over for TWC against its own cities. Nice to see NY not get bought off.

I'm fortunate that AT&T fiber has been available in my neighborhood for about a year now ($70/mo for gigabit service). Before that I was stuck with TWC's ever increasing prices and worsening service. Now that it's Spectrum it's still more expensive for slower, less reliable service.

kolanos• 8 years ago

I would kill for 100mbps for $80/mo. I'm paying twice that for 10mbps in rural Nevada with a WISP.

bmmayer1• 8 years ago

How is removing yet another competitor from the market a good thing for consumers?

mikenyc• 8 years ago

I'm in Brooklyn. This thread prompted me to check the Spectrum rates. I was on Time Warner Cable pre-merger, and with Spectrum just called and got a 100MB upgrade that costs me $300 less per year than I was paying. Call was easy/fast with good service. No upgrade fees, etc. And they offered me a technician appointment with a one-hour window within 24 hours. Just one experience, but clearly for this NYC consumer, I seem to be benefitting from the merger.

From Spectrum's Brooklyn rate card (link below): Spectrum Internet 200/10 = $64.99 Spectrum Internet Ultra 400/20 = $89.99 Spectrum Internet Gig = $124.99

Looks like TWC had topped out at 300MB, and they charged about $110/mo

Spectrum Brooklyn rate card: https://www.spectrum.com/browse/content/ratecard.html

Time Warner Cable Brooklyn rate card pre-merger: https://www.spectrum.com/content/dam/spectrum/residential/en...

Spectrum internet is getting kicked out of New York

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