Using Apple’s New Controls to Limit a Teenager’s iPhone Time

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/technology/personaltech/apple-iphone-screen-time.html

by tysone • 8 years ago

118 103 8 years ago

cbhl• 8 years ago

Reminder that you can go to /user and set maxvisit and minaway if you're using HN too much.

baxtr• 8 years ago

I had that option for a while and got annoyed by it. I turned it off, because it was often activated right before submitting or commenting (I know it gets saved and won’t get lost but still).

What I do now instead: Before picking up the phone/going online, I force myself to give myself a short reason what I want to do and why. This loop helps me to avoid 50% of pick-ups, which is not perfect, but not bad either.

yashevde• 8 years ago

The fact that HN gives you this option at all, to my mind, sets it in the very unique category of self-aware information sharing communities/platforms. Reddit has subs that focus on productivity and discuss addiction to Reddit itself, sure, but they seem to be going down the same path of catering to addiction now.. deleted Reddit entirely in lieu of HN recently and it's been fantastic.

newswriter99• 8 years ago

Not trying to overly criticize, nitpick or detract from the point of the story, but is that really a headline that belongs at a journalism publication like The New York Times?

wlesieutre• 8 years ago

IMO it's newsworthy that this feature is going to exist and a lot of people outside of the tech world have no idea unless someone tells them about it. We've been reading about "phone addiction" in newspapers for ages, now there are tools to help manage it.

If you're a parent of teenagers with iPhones this is a pretty big story and the headline at least answers the implied "did it work?" question instead of trying to bait you with it.

MBCook2• 8 years ago

What do you see as a problem?

Angostura4• 8 years ago

I'm surprised, given that it is the NYT that the headline isn't:

For Limiting Teenagers' Screentime, Apple Provides New Controls

joezydeco• 8 years ago

The NYT also reviews TV shows, movies, and Broadway productions. Are those any more/less newsworthy than a change to a system that millions of its readers are holding?

chris_mc3• 8 years ago

“It was just a pattern for me — to open my phone and I would have nowhere to go,” she said. “I was just looking at a screen. It was kind of weird, so I’m trying not to do that.”

I found out I did the exact same thing when I deleted my Reddit account and set limits here on HN. I used to find myself unlocking my phone, looking at it, opening Google News to the same old articles, then locking it and doing something else. I have gotten much more stuff done now that I don't stare at Reddit/HN/other all day.

I feel like society should try to back away from being slaves to our technology, and maybe the popping of the social media bubble, via people realizing how much data they collect, may be the trick to do this.

derefr• 8 years ago

Have you ever tried reading e-books? I've replaced most of my "on break" or "during commute" social-media time with plain reading of long-form content.

I wouldn't describe myself as "being a slave to technology"—I just wanted something to entertain me when I had nothing to do. Social media was a bad way to fill that hole, in terms of the emotional costs. Books are a better way to fill that hole. Even if both just look like "staring at your phone screen" from the outside.

reaperducer2• 8 years ago

Have you ever tried reading e-books? I've replaced most of my "on break" or "during commute" social-media time with plain reading of long-form content.

I tried that, and it didn't work for me because it's just too easy to switch to another time-absorbing app if the phone is already in my hand.

But I did something similar: I started reading actual books.

The key was to buy used paperbacks for $1 from low-end bookstores. That way I can carry it around and not worry about it, and if it gets lost or damaged, no big deal.

When I'm done with it, I leave it on the bus or train for someone else to find.

chris_mc3• 8 years ago

I do read e-books, because I just consider them books. I have a tablet with only WiFi so I don't screw around. It's pretty great to learn stuff that has been well-researched and well-written and without insults about my mother or minorities.

wilsonnb23• 8 years ago

A huge part of the problem is that social media is built of bite size chunks that fit into small amounts of time much better than long form pieces.

speg• 8 years ago

I can’t wait to set limit for Reddit. I got rid of Facebook and Twitter last year and it’s so much better.

Heck, why don’t I just delete it right now…

icebraining2• 8 years ago

Then there's HN...

spencerwgreene2• 8 years ago

I traveled around Europe for a month recently with my phone in airplane mode the whole time (except when needing to call a taxi at 3:30am in Venice, Italy). In the first week I also found myself doing this.

As long as technological progress continues improving, we will unintentionally (and intentionally) make things more addictive than before. The same process that drives good technological progress also drives bad technological progress.

Paul Graham's essay on this (http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html).

ajiang• 8 years ago

Fascinating article that suggest two things to me:

1) The impact of such tools is heavily affected by the individual. Sophie's personal awareness and will power seem incredibly strong. As she is the child of a NYT editor, this doesn't seem surprising.

2) If people are demanding tools to help them limit their screen consumption time, brands will need to rely more heavily on 'IRL' ways to get in front of consumers (e.g. experiences, events, etc.)

danso3• 8 years ago

It's interesting to me, though not surprising, the the author is so surprised that a software/UI feature could be successful in reducing usage. As if being addicted to phone/software were an inextricable psychological/physiological characteristic/flaw.

I used to use Reddit and Facebook a lot more regularly -- more than daily. But ever since I changed my password to something that I can't recall without a password manager, and added 2-factor auth, I rarely get on just because the lack of ease of use is enough deterrence. Ever since I did a system wipe a few weeks ago, I haven't checked facebook at all because I can't be bothered to get into my password manager.

Though if I were being honest, I now have the meta problem of forcing myself to throw away the keys. I did the same thing with Twitter, even removing it from my phone. Then I reinstalled and logged in because I wanted to stay up to date on a current event one day. Now for a week I've been putting logging out and deleting my cookies.

MBCook2• 8 years ago

It may be that they’re surprised the system isn’t easy to bypass and this is actually useful instead of pointless.

danso3• 8 years ago

I think also it's that the average user doesn't know how to "hack" things. This includes "hacks" like editing etc/hosts to send domains to 0.0.0.0, but also extends to the general mentality and ambition to even think about altering software to their own personal needs.

tequila_shot• 8 years ago

I did something similar. I simply deleted my Facebook, Messenger and Instragram apps from my phone. Never went back.

danso3• 8 years ago

Deleting from the phone is the real engagement killer. I can usually get focused on work when I'm on my laptop. And unlike with a phone, I can't reflexively and compulsively use my laptop when waiting in line, walking around, or getting up/going to bed.

anyfoo• 8 years ago

Same here, but I kept Instagram (it really isn't much of a time waster in my case), but nuked Twitter. Twitter, more than any other of the apps, did not only waste my time but made me actively unhappy while doing so.

egypturnash• 8 years ago

I find that when I have reinstalled something I would generally not have with me 24-7 like Twitter, writing about how I haven't gotten around to removing it yet is generally the final push to finally pick up the phone and nuke the app.

ycombinete• 8 years ago

On top of deleting all my social media, I gave my wife my Ipad, which had a great impact on my media usage in general, as there are now less places in the house/life where I can engage with really intense media.

cm2187• 8 years ago

You only really need twitter if you want to stay up to date with the events of the day by the minute. Unless your profession dictates it why not stick to reading the news or hn in your own time?

notamicroshill• 8 years ago

Maybe the discourse that Twitter can offer is valuable to him?

commandlinefan• 8 years ago

So they'll switch from using their iphone to watching TV, playing their XBox, or getting on the computer.

kolpa• 8 years ago

None of those devices work on busses, cars, or hallways.

19962• 8 years ago

I would like to introduce you to "portable video games" like the PSP

thermodynthrway6• 8 years ago

You would think a teenager with a job could just get their own phone plan. I'm kinda thankful helicopter parenting is being undermined by technology (internet+Uber), maybe one day we will get back to reasonable parenting practices they had back in the 60's-70's.

We don't let our kids roam the neighborhood anymore even though it's a magnitude safer than it was decades ago. I don't understand how we expect kids to start acting like grown ups between 18-20 when they've been treated like babies until then.

I was working at 14 and driving wherever by 16. By the time I was in college I was completely independent. Maybe 50% of my friends never even had a job and had no idea how to do laundry or take care of themselves.

If my parents said they were limiting my internet I would've laughed in their face

marter• 8 years ago

how much parenting expierence do you have?

ddingus3• 8 years ago

I have a ton and agree with him.

jnwatson• 8 years ago

As a parent of a 14-year-old, I would far prefer she be roaming about than on her phone. These devices are addictive, and limiting them is important.

thermodynthrway6• 8 years ago

I don't see it being any worse than the TV shows and consoles of years past. Or the arcade and bowling alleys of years before that. It's just the newest big time killer. All of those mediums are designed to be addictive and I don't think increased convenience makes it much worse

utefan0013• 8 years ago

If you have time, please give our free iOS app studycity a test. It will block fun sites after 1 hour. In order to get access back the user has to earn 5+ points on khan, duolingo, code combat, prodigy, Tynker etc. Our servers will log in as the child or make an API call on the learning site to verify.

It works by using a dual mode DNS (learn and play modes). Note the app requires vpn approval, but we only control the DNS. If you want to avoid that you can manually set up the phone after a free signup on our studycity org website.

snuxoll• 8 years ago

Robert Epstein has written two fantastic books on this exact topic, "The Case Against Adolescence" and "Teen 2.0" - the heart of both revolves around the artificial extension of childhood modern society has developed into this period we call "adolescence".

I'm a 90's kid, by the time I was 10 years old I stayed at home by myself and my 18 month younger sister after school and during the summer. We would stop by the store after school, visit friends, take the bus to the pool, etc, we just called our mother at work and left a message so she knew where we were. Hell, I had unfiltered access to the internet - and it's not like online predators were some foreign concept in the early 00's.

I can't say my daughter is going to have completely unmonitored internet access at 10 years old like I did, she's five years old right now and I've got network-wide content filtering deployed to give myself a little safety net in case she stumbles off the beaten path while playing a game or something. I intend to keep this deployed until she's old enough to properly police her own activity, but at a certain point I'll need to trust her to do the right thing and teach instead of restrict. I hope more parents can learn to do the same, and this extends into the physical world as well as the virtual one - we absolutely cannot treat teenagers like children that need to be coddled, they are adults in training and deserve an appropriate level of trust and respect.

thermodynthrway6• 8 years ago

Completely agree. Back in the day, children began to be treated as adults around 12-13 as long as they proved themselves responsible enough.

I remember riding my bike 10-20 miles when I was 12-14 before cell phones, visiting distant friends and buying random stuff with my $20 allowance. Running errands for my parents too. By 18 my parents were more like mentors than protectors. Just some people I really liked to look up to and help out when things got real gnarly.

Life stuff happened. Flat tires, sketchy situations, talked to the police a few times. Even broke some bones once in a bike accident. Every time I learned how to deal with life situations and make it home alright. Young enough that strangers and the justice system are still ready to give you some slack cuz you're figuring things out, a gift that many kids these days don't get.

It makes you grow up fast. I was babysitting for multiple days at 14, responsibly as any adult. Starting working real jobs soon after, not disclosing because I don't want to dox myself... But I was doing "real adult" jobs where the consequences for mistakes we're so bad that people could die. My boss got several complaints that it was illegal or irresponsible to let a "child" do such work. It wasn't.

reaperducer2• 8 years ago

I'm kinda thankful helicopter parenting is being undermined by technology

I wish. I know people in their late 30's who are on their parent's cell phone plan, and have tried (unsuccessfully) to get on their health insurance.

wink2• 8 years ago

I know tons of people here in Germany who have had their cars officially running with their parents' insurance well into their late 20s (basically as long as possible because it was simply like half the price), at least until some years ago.

We also have this health insurance thing where you can be insured with your parents up until 25 I guess, if you're still going to school or university.

Maybe your point is "people should stand on their own feet at some point" and maybe I'm not weighing 20s vs 30s enough.. but to me that simply sounds like saving money. Hell, if I had had my parents living close to me in my late 20s and being able to save money just by having some contracts in common, I would've done it.

systemtest3• 8 years ago

To be honest, I share my Netflix account with my parents. Saves me a bit of money.

cascom• 8 years ago

I know lots of people who do this - but in most cases it’s about frugality - for a family of four with two grown children paying ~$100/month (4pp family plan) vs. $220/month (2pp family plan, and two individual plans) it just makes sense

toasterlovin• 8 years ago

I think it's worth considering that the HN crowd probably is a selection of the population that skews heavily toward being self motivated and reasonably well adjusted. My siblings and I, too, had very unsupervised upbringings. We all would have done better with more structure. Not helicopter parenting, but some happy medium.

WRT unrestricted internet/device usage: porn addiction is a thing. So is gaming addiction. Adolescent girls being pressured to send nude photos to their classmates is also a thing. IMO parents should take reasonable measures to protect their children from the worst that is out there.

thermodynthrway6• 8 years ago

Admittedly, you're probably right. I had some trouble finding friends to hang out between 14-18 because I was too "serious". Not everyone likes hanging out with someone who acts like an adult at that age. Definitely considered uncool haha

bargl• 8 years ago

I have a couple of points. For the most point I agree with you but here they are.

1) People are people and what works for some kids doesn't work for others. While we're way past what I'd call ok as a society, kids still should have to prove they deserve independence at a younger age. If (for example) I were your parent and you didn't have a job at 16 and wouldn't get one but were on your phone all the time I might use something like this to motivate you to get out and get a job. If your sibling had a job and were on their own plan etc. then I wouldn't do it there.

2) It sounds like Sophie was in on the experiment and would have been able to opt out of it. I did not get the impression that she was forced into anything by her parents or the author. Especially factoring in the last comment about adding in Netflix.

3) My parents did not do well teaching me basic life skills in preparation for college. I learned most of it on my own. They taught me a lot and limited my independence as I proved or disproved my ability to be independent.

Any I just wanted to put some thoughts out there. 50% of your friends couldn't do laundry by the time they started college. What % could by the time they were done? What % can now? I would have been in the 50% at the beginning, but now I'm not. I didn't know how to tile a wall, but now I do. My eldest sister on the other hand was 100% like you and we have the exact same parents.

Just some food for thought.

thermodynthrway6• 8 years ago

True, thread below talks a lot more about how not all kids are ready. All of them can take care of life issues now. Best thing about early freedom was ability to learn the ropes before society judged you for it.

The world is a lot harsher when you turn 17-18. Better to learn your way when you're young and most people are willing to accommodate

swebs2• 8 years ago

An important factor to consider is that the teenager in the article actually wanted the limits in place.

justMoritz3• 8 years ago

A thousand times this.

At 14 my parents were like “you're sick? You know where the Dr. is, don't you?”. It helped me – introvert – tremendously functioning in the world.

JTbane2• 8 years ago

I'd definitely agree: -Buy your kids a simple dumbphone for emergencies (Nokia et al) -Let them work part time for their own smartphone

denimalpaca• 8 years ago

Pro-tip if you use your phone too much: Carry a book or Kindle around, and when you look idly at your phone, put it in your pocket and read instead.

bcheung• 8 years ago

Along related lines, I noticed just removing notifications from the lock screen greatly reduces phone usage. I also set my phone on do not disturb the majority of the time unless I'm expecting a call. I estimate I cut my time 10x.

That being said, I think screen time is only an approximate message. I spend tons of time on the computer every day but a lot of it is very productive learning online courses, work, and hobby programming projects. I wouldn't count that time towards something I want to avoid.

visarga• 8 years ago

For years I tried limiting the screen time of my kids (back when iPhone was at versions 4 and 5). Never could manage to do it properly. My kids would always hack it. I concluded that Apple's interest in having kids spend as much time (and money) on the phone is opposite to mine and that's why they didn't allow proper parental controls. Now I just ask for the phone in the evening and give it back the next day. So much for "high tech". Seems that Apple finally woke up and did something about this. Asking a kid not to abuse the phone is like putting a large bag of chocolates in their room and saying "eat responsibly!".

CptMauli• 8 years ago

I think with chocolate its much easier to practice restraint. My children have access to endless sweets, but they seldom take advantage of it. But with the iPad its a different ballgame.

justMoritz3• 8 years ago

Maybe because the iPad is a productivity machine and chocolate is a fat machine?

JTbane2• 8 years ago

I still eat too much chocolate as an adult sometimes- the stomach aches remind me not to indulge too much.

swebs2• 8 years ago

For years I tried limiting the screen time of my kids (back when iPhone was at versions 4 and 5). Never could manage to do it properly. My kids would always hack it.

This may actually be the best way to teach technical literacy at a young age. When I was young, I thought computers were black boxes that ran on magic. Then I had parental controls set on my user account. I learned really quick about Windows privilege escalation, how to install Linux, WEP cracking, how to load homebrew on the Nintendo DS, etc. I don't think I would have ever gone into Computer Science otherwise.

Teknoman117• 8 years ago

For me, the thing that triggers my phone usage for the most part is notifications. So, I ended up disabling all of them except for a few people I need to be able to hear from (family) and slack messages from my work org. I look at my phone little enough that my OnePlus 3 will last two days.

Now, the most anoying thing about this approach is when apps don't want you to disable notifications and constantly complain about it. Facebook Messenger for instance. You have a banner always visible in the list of chats that says "notifications are off, tap here to enable.". I KNOW they are off, I did it on purpose, and there's no way of getting rid of it.

duckerude• 8 years ago

Can't you disable them on the system level? On my Android device, sliding a notification slightly to the side reveals a button to block all of the app's notifications.

saagarjha2• 8 years ago

Yes, that's what he did. The issue was that Messenger would detect that he had turned off notifications for the app and nag him to turn it back on in-app.

l3mu• 8 years ago

I found that while it was easy enough for me to swipe away notifications from all my apps, it was the red badges that caused me to open an app as soon as I could - sometimes if for nothing else than to get rid of the badge. Switching my phone's settings to monochrome helped me as it meant that I had to intentionally look to see if an app had a badge on or not.

HN Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16476727

sturmeh• 8 years ago

I feel like this is a oddly biased study, as there are two major influencing factors that would have changed Sophie's behaviour.

1. The limits, creating a hard limit, obviously screen time is going to reduce, you can also make my battery a 10th of the size and achieve the same result, it doesn't mean I'm better off or happier.

2. The surveillance. The writer, as a complete stranger to the teenager (for the most part) tracking her daily usage AND commenting on it whilst sharing it with her mother, is enough to change her behaviour dramatically.

I'd like to see how well self imposed limits work, and if there's any beneficial change people notice.

salvar2• 8 years ago

It's a father setting rules for his daughter (and himself while he's at it). Of course it's biased. What's odd about that? I'd understand if this was published as a study, but it's literally a NY Times article telling a story.

300bps• 8 years ago

You may have missed this part of the article near the beginning:

“Just one problem: I don’t have a child, so I needed to borrow one. Fortunately, my editor gleefully volunteered her 14-year-old, Sophie, to be a test subject.”

saagarjha2• 8 years ago

I turned this on the first week of the beta, but then I just ended up spending more time on my computer. I'd really love for Apple to bring this to macOS as well.

fipple• 8 years ago

My solution:

1) Delete all my time waster apps except Kindle

2) Keep at least 3 books and 2 audiobooks in progress at once

3) any time I want to kill time, read the books

justMoritz3• 8 years ago

I also like to read random wikipedia articles in different languages to compare information

Tepix• 8 years ago

Sounds like it works as intended.

Soo.. is there something equivalent for Android? If not, is something coming for Android P?

aldanor2• 8 years ago

Quick googling yields https://families.google.com/familylink -- would that do?

Using Apple’s New Controls to Limit a Teenager’s iPhone Time

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