Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe C.T.E

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/sports/aaron-hernandez-cte-brain.html?_r=0&referer=

by coloneltcb • 9 years ago

50 60 9 years ago

mobile.nytimes.com

nxsynonym5• 9 years ago

>Those who died after the settlement was approved in April 2015 are not eligible for an award, but Hernandez’s family could argue for an exemption.

An exemption should only be made if the money goes to the families of the victims.

Why does the family of a murderer get a monetary reward? Even if it is proven the the CTE somehow cause him to commit the murders (which is a long shot), why would his family reap the benefits of the settlement?

smitherfield• 9 years ago

Not to mention that (IIRC) several of the murders he's thought to have committed occurred before he'd ever played in the NFL.

chickenfries2• 9 years ago

I don't think it's about if CTE caused him to commit the murders, it's about if CTE caused him to commit suicide. Since CTA can only be diagnosed posthumously, I can see the argument that he had CTE before 2015 but was not properly diagnosed despite the clear risk of CTE to NFL players.

nxsynonym5• 9 years ago

I see your point, unfortunately it will be hard to parse what the extent of the CTE was and how it affected him in combination with the results of his trial.

I just know that if I were in the shoes of the victims families, it would be crushing to see the family of the murderer walk away with a payout.

watty• 9 years ago

It has nothing to do with murder and everything to do with suicide. The family is arguing that CTE caused or contributed to his suicide.

nxsynonym5• 9 years ago

If he wasn't put in jail with a lifetime sentence would he still have committed suicide?

Maybe. Maybe not. There's no was to know his thoughts leading up to the suicide.

nilved2• 9 years ago

Why does the family of a murderer get a monetary reward? Even if it is proven the the CTE somehow cause him to commit the murders (which is a long shot), why would his family reap the benefits of the settlement?

Because the NFL is the murderer. Aaron was made ill by them to the extent he is not responsible for his actions. This is before you even get to the suicide.

nick_• 9 years ago

They mean to raise the concern of the family receiving that money, instead of the state or a CTE research group, for example.

nxsynonym5• 9 years ago

How is the NFL responsible for those murders?

He didn't start in the NFL until 2010, after he had already been involved in a double shooting and bar fight.

Also, there is no direct evidence that CTE leads to murdering people.

x0x02• 9 years ago

Because his daughter, by being deprived of her father's presence and income, was also hurt by the actions that were quite possibly induced by the CTE he suffered. And while no one can know CTE caused Hernandez to kill people, it is known that CTE causes cognitive impairment, impulsive behavior, and emotional instability; aggression is a suspected symptom [1]. I don't think the idea that CTE made Hernandez' bad behavior more likely and/or more severe is easy to dismiss out of hand.

[1] http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/chronic-trauma...

kolbe• 9 years ago

I'm not sure how employable Aaron was without the NFL.

jessaustin• 9 years ago

Hernandez would never have gotten out of prison, and certainly not while still capable of playing ball professionally. How much could his income possible have been? The argument that he could have been a wealthy pro athlete without suffering CTE if only the NFL had done things differently, seems to contradict itself in several ways.

Clubber6• 9 years ago

Why does the family of a murderer get a monetary reward?

Well, for one thing, unlike North Korea, we don't punish people's innocent family members for their crimes.

nxsynonym5• 9 years ago

How is not awarding millions of dollars for no reason a punishment?

criddell3• 9 years ago

So the Hernandez family's ability to sue should be linked to what kind of person Aaron was? How does that makes sense?

adamnemecek4• 9 years ago

There's a hypothesized link between C.T.E. and violence.

http://www.traumaticbraininjury.net/does-chronic-traumatic-e...

Clubber6• 9 years ago

He only played 3 seasons in the NFL. I agree with the findings that continuous head trauma causes CTE, but could other things cause it as well? For someone with only 3 seasons to have that severe a case of CTE is cause for concern that there might be other things that cause it.

adamnemecek4• 9 years ago

You are ignoring the probably like 10 years of football he played before going to NFL.

colecut• 9 years ago

Isn't the lawsuit doing that too?

bllguo• 9 years ago

He's ignoring that intentionally, in the context of evaluating the merit of the lawsuit

S_A_P• 9 years ago

probably closer to 15. Parents these days start their kids in pop warner/little league starting in 1st and 2nd grade. I find it to be asinine myself, given that there are cases of mild CTE found in high school football players...

Clubber6• 9 years ago

Yes, intentionally. Each level gets much faster and the players get bigger and momentum = mass * velocity. I believe most of the CTE cases involve NFL players and it is odd that someone could have such a severe case of CTE with only 3 years of NFL. Florida was a really fast and strong team when he played, but a fraction of the NFL speed and size.

barnaclejive• 9 years ago

You are also ignoring how hard or often the hits were in those 3 years (not mention the X number of years before the NFL).

smaili• 9 years ago

C.T.E., or chronic traumatic encephalopathy, can be diagnosed only posthumously.

Just thinking out loud, does anyone know if this could ever be diagnosed while the person is alive? I'm not very familiar with the disease but just knowing you have it while you're alive would give people at least an opportunity to try and do something about it before it's too late.

erentz2• 9 years ago

Not a doctor. But based on what I've read and seen a diagnosis requires tissue samples of the brain and analysis through a microscope. So it might be possible with some kind of brain biopsy, given there is no treatment for it cutting open someone's head and cutting out some brain to diagnose it is pointless. Without taking tissue sample diagnosis could only be based on behavior.

justboxing• 9 years ago

does anyone know if this could ever be diagnosed while the person is alive?

I don't believe that's possible (yet) but the good news is that several Research Institutes are said to be conducting on going research into diagnosing C.T.E while the person is still alive..

At this time CTE can only be diagnosed after death by postmortem neuropathological analysis. Right now there is no known way to use MRI, CT, or other brain imaging methods to diagnose CTE. The CTE Center is actively conducting research aimed at learning how to diagnose CTE during life. Find out more about our research here.

Source: Boston University’s Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) Research Center => https://www.bu.edu/cte/about/frequently-asked-questions/

toomuchtodo• 9 years ago

This article indicated Boston University is making progress using PET imaging [1].

[1] http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/new-brain-scan-leap...

wl• 9 years ago

I was recently talking with a neurosurgery fellow who claimed CTE is a bit of a controversial diagnosis to begin with. Not only can it only be diagnosed posthumously, but it cannot be diagnosed by autopsy alone. According to him, many brains display the pathology characteristic of CTE. What makes it CTE or not is a history of concussive/subconcussive injuries.

Of course, I may have misunderstood him and/or his opinion may not be in sync with the consensus in the field. Still, it's not something I've heard in these discussions.

mjevans• 9 years ago

Maybe with better medical tech. Stuff more like from science fiction. Various forms of 'non invasive' medical scanners becoming more common, less expensive, and linked to automated computer diagnosis (flag X for doctor/expert review) is probably the most effective route to such improvements.

purple-again• 9 years ago

Anyone know if there is a similar rash of problems or study on CTE with professional boxers? Surely they face comparable levels of head trauma throughout their training/career.

erentz2• 9 years ago

That is where it "started" so to speak: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dementia_pugilistica

criddell3• 9 years ago

I have read that CTE is more closely correlated with a high number of smaller (sub-concussive) hits than any number of concussive hits. Do boxers fit this profile?

After football, I think soccer players might be next in line for CTE risk.

hkmurakami• 9 years ago

Yes, since the left jab to the head is a key part of a boxer's offensive foundation.

IkmoIkmo• 9 years ago

Do boxers fit this profile?

Uhh well yeah, much more than soccer players that's for sure.

You typically throw around 50 punches in a round, with about 35% landing, typically more than half are thrown to the head, and punches which don't land (i.e., don't count in boxing rules) typically still land on the guard in front of your head and cause an impact on the head nonetheless.

In a typical 12 round fight or equivalent sparring match you tend to get hit about 200 times or so, i.e. take 100 punches to the head from people who punch for a profession.

If you've never been in a boxing gym, it's absolutely ridiculous how much harder a boxer punches versus a really strong and tough looking guy with no boxing training. In that sense it's no different from someone who's been playing a guitar for 5 years, and someone who hasn't for a single second, what they can produce is world's apart, despite punching being a seemingly natural thing anyone can do. Getting hit by a pro 100 times in about half an hour (12 rounds of 3 minutes) is absolutely terrible, and there's lots of research that shows this (as well as many famous cases of brain damage).

The top professionals fight about 40 or so times as a pro, but can easily rack up 100-200 fights during their amateur careers, all of which are preceded by by tons of sparring. Typically top fighters spar about 150 rounds prior to a pro match of 12 rounds. All in all, it's probably safe to assume a professional boxer will fight a couple thousand rounds in his life, in each of which he gets hit with on average at least 10 hard punches to the head from a professional puncher. It's an absolutely savage sport, it's hard to reconcile that with my love for the sport. (the level of this sacrifice and sports glory are so intertwined though, they make for legendary rivalries and careers)

Boxers wear protection but it doesn't really help for brain damage. Gloves were invented not for protection of the head, but rather the hands, as the hands tend to break quickly. Head gear in sparring protects a little, but that too is partly against cuts.

tdb7893• 9 years ago

As someone who has boxed I can assure you that if you practice a lot you will get hit in the head many many times. We generally went decently light for punches or kicks to the head in practice for this reason. It's a pretty safe assumption that pros go harder than we did in practice so I bet they are getting hit decently hard tons

swang• 9 years ago

1. Murder sucks. CTE sucks. NFL sucks.

2. His girlfriend should not get a single dime. She was complicit in dumping evidence for Hernandez. I don't know how it would work but their daughter should be the only one who gets to touch any money from this case.

3. Someone tell me otherwise but I thought initially the reason Hernandez killed himself was because he thought that his death would payout some money to his girlfriend and his daughter.

4. Going back I don't see any severe head injuries that could have led to concussions. Not saying CTE is impossible but I wonder if the NFL could argue that...

lazyasciiart2• 9 years ago

Severe head injuries are not required for concussions.

travmatt• 9 years ago

I've heard of people getting small concussions from riding jet skis across choppy water

simcop2387• 9 years ago

for 4, you'll have to include all injuries sustained during practice too. I don't know the medical stuff about it, but I don't believe CTE requires injuries severe enough that it puts him out of commission, just constantly repeated ones. Even if they'd be below the threshold where you'd normally report on them, i.e. getting hit repeated and being dazed from it over and over.

wavefunction• 9 years ago

His daughter shouldn't get anything either.

His gf can get a job and raise the kid like any other single parent.

MrMember• 9 years ago

You don't need to suffer a major concussion to get CTE. Linemen for example still suffer from it and it's believed that the tens of thousands of "micro-concussive" events (ball snaps, rush forward, hit defensive lineman) they accrue in a lifetime of playing football add up to be just as bad or worse than suffering multiple major concussions. Tight ends like Hernandez are often used in blocking situations so he could have suffered something similar.

eightysixfour• 9 years ago

3) I was under the impression that if he passed while still pending appeal, he technically became "innocent." Meaning that the money owed to him by the Patriots would go to his family. I've heard the theory, never heard it verified though.

kw71• 9 years ago

Yes I heard this is state law there and the prosecution was forced to drop the case(s) that had not been finally settled.

I understand the reasons for this rule but in this case it's infuriating

joekrill• 9 years ago

At this point the surprising headline should be when NFL players are found to NOT have C.T.E. I really don't understand how the NFL is getting away with this so easily. I guess they have good PR? People just like football so much that they are willing to ignore it?

slamdance2• 9 years ago

the legal and medical question that comes up is "when did it start?" Pee-wee football? high school? college? certainly before they get to the NFL. While I don't defend them for hiding the issue for so long, at this point, now that its common knowledge, its pretty much like boxing or MMA. Its people's choice to do it. The consequences are plain to see, and still they continue.

Others may be in the situation that football (and the incurring injuries) are all they have, or all they know and that maybe its too late to turn back or 'fix' the problem. its not just the NFL. It's also the NCAA which makes far more money off these kids than the NFL.

Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe C.T.E

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