Smjörið er brætt og hveitið smátt og smátt hrært út í það, þangað til það er gengið upp í smjörið.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=111100

by pg • 18 years ago

125 154 18 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Thanks to a fix by Patrick Collison, utf-8 now seems to work right.

r70002• 18 years ago

Freude, schöner Götterfunken! Tochter aus Elysium!

hhm• 18 years ago

Buenísimo!

dzorz2• 18 years ago

И цан’т белиеве ит!

piranha• 18 years ago

И тоо!

albertcardona• 18 years ago

[that 'ts' should be a 'k']

pchristensen2• 18 years ago

What language is that? I'm guessing Icelandic; it's a little too unicodey to be Danish or Norwegian, but the words look similar.

pg9• 18 years ago

Good guess.

vidar• 18 years ago

As an Icelander, I must surely ask what pushed you to use Icelandic as an example. :)

kmt• 18 years ago

Браво!

ph0rque4• 18 years ago

В самом деле браво!

mojuba2• 18 years ago

Чему вы рады? :)

gojomo2• 18 years ago

♫♪♫ to my ears. I ♥ unicode! To ∞ and beyond, ☺

tocomment3• 18 years ago

How do I make the infinity? Actually where do I get all those symbols?

eusman3• 18 years ago

http://www.unicode.org/charts/ (characters)

http://www.unicode.org/charts/symbols.html (geometrical shapes etc)

As I understand only UTF-8 is supported, so forget characters for UTF-16 and UTF-32 (but you rarely need these anyway)

erydo• 18 years ago

You have to buy a unicode keyboard. They have over 95000 keys and take up about nine square meters. Hope you have a big desk.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist)

mdemare2• 18 years ago

If you have a mac, Cmd-Opt-T

gojomo2• 18 years ago

I used WindowsXP 'Character Map' accessory for the ♫♪ and ♥. I think I copied and pasted the ∞ and ☺ from http://www.bigbaer.com/sidebars/entities/ .

tocomment3• 18 years ago

Ok, so I see infinity is U+221E(http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/221e/index.htm), now how do I go from that to posting it on a forum like this?

far33d• 18 years ago

So. A note to all the "unicode makes this unusable" people -

Apparently, while you were complaining, someone else was solving.

menloparkbum• 18 years ago

Thanks, grandma.

microdan• 18 years ago

I think the complaints were more about how pg was originally saying that he intended to never support Unicode. That said, people should realize that UTF-8 encoding/decoding is the zeroth step to internationalization with Unicode.

curi6• 18 years ago

pg didn't say that. people just made it up.

henning4• 18 years ago

OK. Now how about database access (with support for prepared statements), regular expressions, and networking?

benmathes3• 18 years ago

http://paulgraham.com/core.html

Kaizyn• 18 years ago

Which of those are you planning to contribute?

sjs• 18 years ago

There is a public git repo anyone can push to (the so-called git "wiki", or anarki). It contains regular expressions. You could wrap some DB bindings for mzscheme with relative ease.

eru2• 18 years ago

I'd love to see regular expressions as s-expressions in arc - not pasted on as interpreted strings.

Actually I think I have seen a library for MzScheme that does it this way.

olavk7• 18 years ago

Røv og nøgler! PG succumbs to the demands of political correctness! Will we soon see mandatory static type declarations and CSS in Arc?

mixmax2• 18 years ago

Ååååh another Dane on the ropes :-)

pg9• 18 years ago

Well, not quite. I gave Patrick an early version of the code, a couple weeks before Arc was released, and he immediately sent me this fix. I just didn't get around to incorporating it till now.

There's a difference between things I don't care about, and things I'm actively against. I don't care about character sets and css, so those things will no doubt gradually get better.

Classic static typing, however, I think is actually a bad idea in a general-purpose language. It makes languages weaker. So it's never likely to happen in Arc itself. However, one of the explicit goals of Arc is to be a good language for writing other languages on top of, and I can imagine plenty of languages for specific types of problems (e.g. circuit design) in which static typing would be a good idea.

dfranke4• 18 years ago

It's not true that static typing always makes languages weaker. It makes map more powerful, for example: the desired type of output sequence can be inferred rather than having to supply a first argument of the same type like in Arc.

I used to agree with you, by the way -- static typing in most languages feels like a straight-jacket. ML wasn't enough to change my mind. It took Haskell.

jgrahamc2• 18 years ago

I don't understand why CSS or HTML are being mentioned during the design of Arc. These seem like library issues and your announcement of Arc was spoiled IMHO by the "rant" about HTML and tables. This is only made worse by the Arc Challenge which seems to be more about the design of libraries for HTML/HTTP etc. than the language.

What am I missing?

nostrademons2• 18 years ago

By "Classic static typing", do you mean C++/Java-style static typing, or does it include Haskell/ML-style type inference as well?

olavk7• 18 years ago

Thanks for the serious reply. I'm not sure I deserved it :) I appreciate your clarification of the distinction which is not clear from the "manifesto" (http://arclanguage.com/).

I suspected you deliberately mentioned ASCII-only and presentational markup because you knew it would tick off (and hopefully scare away) a certain type of perfectionist which you consider non-productive for explorative hacking.

rams2• 18 years ago

இது தமிழ

rams2• 18 years ago

हिन्दी

jey2• 18 years ago

Tamil++; // (இது C)

polar• 18 years ago

മലയാളം

joe24pack2• 18 years ago

To je výborný !

stener• 18 years ago

Zdravím do Čech :)

joe24pack2• 18 years ago

Byl jsem narozeny cech, spravne prazak, ale ted jsem american. Prominte, muj pocitac nema hacky a carky, a moje cesina je detska.

sabat• 18 years ago

Paul Graham rocks.

aquarin• 18 years ago

ПГ рулз.

mdemare2• 18 years ago

Nâh, dâh zèn we maui klâh mei...

    (define Y
      (λ (m)
        ((λ (f) (m (λ (a) ((f f) a))))
         (λ (f) (m (λ (a) ((f f) a)))))))

Zak• 18 years ago

Great... but that's Scheme, not Arc.

Tuna-Fish• 18 years ago

oh yes.

Make λ an alias of fn, and have it replace automatically in whatever editor you use?

fn is fast to write, but λ is much more readable, 'cos it stands out.

olifante2• 18 years ago

Wikipedia to the rescue: "The butter is melted and the flour stirred into it (slowly but surely), until it is has blended with the butter." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:S.Örvarr.S)

timr• 18 years ago

It's an icelandic recipe for roux?

jey2• 18 years ago

What needed to be changed? I am no character encoding guru but I thought that treating strings as opaque octet sequences was good enough to "support" UTF-8. i.e. Unless you actively break it, it should work by default.

olavk7• 18 years ago

See this thread: http://arclanguage.com/item?id=1563

olifante2• 18 years ago

普通话

btw0• 18 years ago

湖北话

goncha• 18 years ago

上海话

staunch• 18 years ago

日本

shiro• 18 years ago

testing some pitfalls... U+005c \ U+FF3C ＼ U+FFE5 ￥

U+007E ~ U+301C 〜 U+FF5E ～

rokhayakebe2• 18 years ago

geeks. you guys forget about us sometimes. what is this?

paulgb• 18 years ago

Hacker News now supports "utf-8", a way of storing text that supports characters from languages other than English.

The excitement comes from the fact that Hacker News is programmed in Arc, and the change to Hacker News implies that Arc will soon support utf-8 too.

rokhayakebe2• 18 years ago

thank you sir

jamiequint• 18 years ago

农历新年 Happy (Chinese) New Year!

dmoney• 18 years ago

I'll never understand why asians type all in question marks. It must be some kind of unary system.

tel2• 18 years ago

新年快乐！

mixmax2• 18 years ago

if you search for "Smjörið er brætt og hveitið smátt og smátt hrært út í það, þangað til það er gengið upp í smjörið." on Google this thread is the fourth result.

Damn fast...

prescod2• 18 years ago

Do I understand correctly that Arc strings are sequences of octets?

If so: I really don't want to be a negativity guy but it seems like every language that has made an 8-bit string the default string type has regretted it later because it is so painful to change it without breaking code. Okay, Paul says that he won't mind breaking code. Maybe he means it, but it doesn't make any sense to me to knowingly and consciously repeat a design mistake that dozens of other people have made and regretted.

It really just takes one day to get this right. You need to distinguish between the raw bytes read from a device and the true string type (which needs to be 21 bit or greater). You need a trivial converter from one to the other (which you can presumably steal from MZScheme) and back.

That's it. You get this right at the beginning and you never have to backtrack or break code.

My apologies in advance if this post is based on incorrect premises. I'm trying to help.

olavk7• 18 years ago

Arc snarfs the string implementation from MzScheme which support Unicode in The Right Way, as code points rather than octets.

prescod2• 18 years ago

So should I infer that the only reason UTF-8 is mentioned is that the reader APIs do not let you select the codec? Or is even that provided in which case it is accurate to say that Arc supports Unicode-in-general?

dzorz2• 18 years ago

Could you offer a better solution? What would your solution offer that octets do not? Random character access? No, because not a single unicode encoding offers easy random character access (because they are made of possibly several codepoints, which, in some encodings, are made of more than one basic "chars"). Gylph, word and sentence segmentation? I guess not.

olavk7• 18 years ago

Abstraction. Having Unicode strings (i.e. strings that are a sequence of Unicode code points rather than octets) allows you to work with strings without worrying about encoding (except when doing IO, which is where encoding matters).

If you treat strings as octets OTOH even simple operations like concatenating two strings might lead to headache if the strings are in two different encodings. And how do you keep track of the encodings of individual strings? Madness lies down that road.

Create• 18 years ago

Öt szép szűzlány őrült írót nyúz. Egy hűtlen vejét fülöncsípő, dühös mexikói úr Wesselényinél mázol Quitóban.

axod• 18 years ago

heh fantastic. I take back all that I said. Nice one ☺

arundelo• 18 years ago

Bona novaĵo!

patrickg-zill• 18 years ago

Bork bork bork!

leoc• 18 years ago

£!

ph0rque4• 18 years ago

€!!!

benmathes3• 18 years ago

۩۞۩۞

nickb• 18 years ago

.(; sɹǝpuoʍ sǝop ǝɹnssǝɹd ɔı1qnd ɟo ʇıq ǝ1ʇʇı1 ɐ 'ǝǝs ¡ʍou ǝɯosǝʍɐ sı ɔɹɐ uı ʇɹoddns ǝpoɔıun ¡ɥɐɥ

dcurtis• 18 years ago

Yes, because writing upside down is so incredibly useful! How did we ever live without it?

/sarcasm

nirs• 18 years ago

נחמד.

duke• 18 years ago

unicode and arc are ♫♪♫ to my ears too.. a fun way to play with arc and unicode might be at http://twext.cc/go/arc

bootload2• 18 years ago

Η ευχαρίστηση στην εργασία βάζει την τελειότητα στην εργασία ~ kudos to 'Patrick Collison'

eusman3• 18 years ago

Έλληνας;!

bootload2• 18 years ago

Indeed. Aristotle in fact ... translates roughly as "... Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work ..."

rob• 18 years ago

åwesøme!

kajecounterhack• 18 years ago

Happy chinese new year. 白人看不懂

tel2• 18 years ago

这个白人看得懂。

_bq• 18 years ago

pg, you are my hero.

nreece• 18 years ago

किसी वस्तु, व्यक्ति, स्थान, या भावना का नाम बताने वाले शब्द को संज्ञा कहते हैं। जैसे - गोविन्द, हिमालय, वाराणसी, त्याग आदि संज्ञा में तीन शब्द-रूप हो सकते हैं -- प्रत्यक्ष रूप, अप्रत्यक्ष रूप और संबोधन रूप ।

DanielBMarkham• 18 years ago

but ixnay on the igpay atinlay upportsay

ipeev• 18 years ago

Хубаво. Фонта само е някакъв преебан.

tsuru• 18 years ago

ｐｇの自分で書いた本は日本語に翻訳されているし、これからアークも日本で広げるかなぁ。日本ではリスプを使ってる人はまだいるかなぁ。

nablaone• 18 years ago

łąś żółć - testing

morbidkk• 18 years ago

someone from India --> संगणक प्रणाली - आर्क

TMCMan• 18 years ago

If you are wondering: On Linux/X11, there's Ctrl+Shift+[unicde number in hexadecimal], gnome-character-map, umap or KCharMap (ت)

And now for the less serious part:

ሞሡሢ Am I the only one whom these Ethiopic characters remind of Tengwar? BTW, are there Unicode chars for Tengwar? I think there should be! (But not for Klingon, because it sucks.) I have fun wirting this on my ⌨, but ℐ∫ ᚾℍℹ⑀ not pointless? Who cares? Anyway, now we can use distinct characters for Roman numerals: Ⅰ,Ⅱ,Ⅲ,Ⅳ,Ⅴ,Ⅵ,Ⅶ,Ⅷ,Ⅹ,Ⅻ,Ⅽ,Ⅿ! Ye darn kids! Everythin we had was 7-bit ASCII, without parity, and we were damn greatful for it? You think you had it bad? I had to use Morse code for browsing porn, back in my days! And I had to etch my public key into the wall of a rotten ol' cave! We did not have this fancy-shmancy routed network, i had to remember the way from here to there all by myself!

--- this post was presented to you by Too Much Coffee.

mojuba2• 18 years ago

Լիսպը փայլուն է։

DXL• 18 years ago

My name is Daniël. Not sure though if writing that wasn't possible before...

astrodust• 18 years ago

☃

jalammar• 18 years ago

يعيش اليونيكود, شكراً بول.

euccastro2• 18 years ago

það er gaman að lesa. Takk fyrir!

n3m6• 18 years ago

މީމަގޭ މާދަރީ ބަސް. ދިވެހި ބަހަކީ ރީތިބަހެކެވެ.

This is my language - Dhivehi. Written right to left.

btbytes2• 18 years ago

ನಮಸ್ಕಾರ. ಸವಿನುಡಿ ಕನ್ನಡ :)

btbytes2• 18 years ago

namaskAra, savinudi kannaDa :)

Smjörið er brætt og hveitið smátt og smátt hrært út í það, þangað til það er gengið upp í smjörið.

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