Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

https://www.facebook.com/zuck/videos/vb.4/10102274951725301/

by rasmi • 11 years ago

176 102 11 years ago

facebook.com

melling3• 11 years ago

Planes that fly for 3 months at a time on sunlight, bringing the Internet to people isn't cool?

MichaelGG• 11 years ago

That'd be cool. But bringing limited network access to certain sites, such as Facebook, is less cool.

arthurcolle• 11 years ago

wikipedia is a supoorted website. thats really cool

bhntr3• 11 years ago

You know what's cool? A billion planes.

Sorry. I had to. But really, I think everyone's a little sad that this kind of impressive technical achievement is in pursuit of a questionable final objective.

We're so advanced now with so many smart people, we're not really limited by what we CAN build but what we DO build. There are so many things that are theoretically possible but what we spend our time and money on is often so mundane.

I think it would be cool if there were thousands of these planes flying around providing free internet to everyone. What we'll probably get is hundreds flying around giving free facebook to some people.

But I shouldn't complain. At least research is getting implemented. That is cool.

motoboi2• 11 years ago

I would like to now why 3 months. Do they need to change batteries?

TheSpiceIsLife4• 11 years ago

Scheduled maintenance, I suspect. Inspect and maintain rather than wait till it falls out of the sky.

jacquesm4• 11 years ago

That would be cool but that's not what this is.

josh2600• 11 years ago

This is quite a thing.

Does anyone know how they're achieving the 10gbps data rate? I'm wondering if they're doing something like vortex beam forming... http://www.gizmag.com/twisted-light-beam-data-transmission-v... and http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0030401809... (Although this article is about using a physical fiber).

jaycroft2• 11 years ago

They're likely not using something too exotic: 10Gbps free space optical links have been available commercially for a few years now (see products by AOptix). The tricky part is pointing them and getting the last bit of power on target. If they're actually forming links at 100's of km separation they're already on par with what APL was doing just 2 or 3 years ago [1]. Impressive that they not only have the data terminal to develop but have had the additional complication of building a new airframe as well.

Having worked on the pointing/tracking/acquisition side of this problem that's the part that's truly impressive to me. Sub-microradian pointing is not trivial. Their "red beam following green beam" shots in the video must be included for a bit of a laugh...

[1] http://www.ndia.org/Divisions/Divisions/ScienceAndEngineerin...

dharma1• 11 years ago

Agreed, this is very cool. How do free space optical links work in the rain though? Shouldn't be a problem for the link between aircrafts as they fly above the weather but might be for aircraft-ground link if that's optical.

Hope FB will open source parts of this! I know NASA has been looking at optical links for high bandwidth space communication, this accurate tracking would really help

jeremy7600• 11 years ago

Just, no.

This is frightening on many levels. A facebook plane? To get people on facebook, right? To get them on the internet is secondary to Zuckerbergs goals here, lets be honest. A walled garden? Come on. It should be the whole internet or they shouldn't even bother.

A walled garden, with no security protocols, with the intention of getting the entire world on facebook? Not cool.

melling3• 11 years ago

Yes. Most people and companies have to justify their extensive time and boat loads of money spent. He wants to grow his business and he's willing to invest to do it. If Coca Cola built roads to villages to sell their products, you would also be unhappy?

jlas• 11 years ago

How about Coca Cola's Skype machine: http://youtu.be/zlA9tXYxD8g

oscargrouch• 11 years ago

If Coca Cola built roads to villages to sell their products, you would also be unhappy?

If Coca Cola built roads to villages to sell their products , but only Coca Cola trucks could use the roads - FTFY

Now that doesnt look so good, does it?

mcbuilder• 11 years ago

That's right, only people in first world countries should get to have Faceboook!

jmstout• 11 years ago

What if it's the other way around? What if the smart and passionate folks at Facebook really do just want to get the internet to the rest of the world, and this is the way they can justify doing so?

They are a public company, after all. They have to fulfill their fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders, or at least appear to do so...

kunai2• 11 years ago

The fact that going public always tends to make a company's contributions to society less altruistic and turn the ethos of the company into "moar profitz foar de shaerhoaldurs" raises some fairly damning questions about our capital system and its tendency towards greed and stagnation.

Zelphyr• 11 years ago

They have to fulfill their fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders

And those shareholders get priority over EVERYONE else in the chain. What the investors want, the investors get.

dingaling• 11 years ago

They have to fulfill their fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders, or at least appear to do so...

Actually they could completely ignore their shareholders from this point forward and absolutely nothing would happen to Facebook the company.

They have their IPO money in their pockets and the daily ebb-and-flow of Facebook share-trading provides no benefit to them other than reputation-enhancement should they wish to go to the markets again in the future.

baddox4• 11 years ago

How is the world with no Facebook plane in any way better than the world with a Facebook plane that provides Facebook access? If you don't want Facebook access, or you already have it, the two worlds are indistinguishable.

bduerst4• 11 years ago

Because internet.org's proxy server gives Facebook monopsonic control over the internet.

Even ignoring the massive man-in-the-middle attack problems from running old phones on a proxy, Facebook is positioning themselves to control exclusive access to large number of users for websites.

You could argue that Google already does this - but Google has competitors that users could switch to in a heartbeat. Internet.org users don't have options, and websites need to pander to Facebook to be in that walled garden. It also makes it easier for third world countries to censor the internet.

In the end, this is damaging to the open internet ecosystem. Facebook could have just implemented a rate-limited or data capped system like other ISPs, but they opted to create a more restrictive system that gives them more power.

Sven7• 11 years ago

Yup. Cant wait for the Youtube, Amazon and Pornhub planes next.

_delirium• 11 years ago

Depends on precisely where they're deployed, but this kind of thing can damage the local market and slow down the roll-out of normal infrastructure. A zero-cost "Facebook internet" is a partial substitute for real internet, which worsens the market for a local ISP trying to get off the ground. A kind of price-dumping, basically.

visarga• 11 years ago

Because that would centralize too much power into FB's hands.

samstave• 11 years ago

May 14th, 2024:In other news, today marks the 11th time in recent months that ISIS terrorists were able to shoot down a Facebook Aquila V.9 autonomous internet drown. Cutting off Facebook and general internet access to millions of Facebook users in the arid region.

Officials from Facebook, the NSA, and the NTSB were unavailable to comment.

This tragedy highlighted on this, Mark Zuckerberg's 40th birthday.

panic• 11 years ago

This is not an effort to provide the full internet. See this critique by the EFF for more details: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/05/internetorg-not-neutra...

onewaystreet• 11 years ago

Someone has to pay for this. Providing the full internet isn't an option.

tdaltonc• 11 years ago

If it's not the "full internet" then it's not the internet. They shouldn't dress this up like a charitable project.

kytmizuno• 11 years ago

According to the project lead:

"Maguire told Quartz that the company intends to provide “the full internet,” but also noted that it will work with network operators’ bandwidth needs and business models."

http://qz.com/468376/facebooks-internet-beaming-drone-is-rea...

paulojreis2• 11 years ago

It's a shame. If telcos are in the loop, my hopes for this shrink 99%...

czzarr2• 11 years ago

Really, that's the top comment ? I thought we had reached peak negativity a long time ago. This is just sad.

javert• 11 years ago

I would like to see these used in the US to break the telco monopoly stranglehold.

Of course it's likely the FAA/FCC would make sure not to let that happen.

edit: I mean same tech, but not deployed by Facebook.

rhino369• 11 years ago

The US has the density and wealth to do this via landbased towers. So AT&T, Tmobile, Verizon, and Sprint already do it.

This is more about reaching remote, sparsely populated areas.

ericjang• 11 years ago

This video has given me a newfound respect for Facebook.

Many engineers at tech companies like Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. report that they feel overqualified for their work. I imagine many yearn for the chance to work on moonshot projects like these - is there any reason why secretive research divisions at these companies are so small, when there is plenty of engineering talent to go around internally?

g_delgado14• 11 years ago

I'm guessing cause the 'overqualified' engineers are tied up with what they were hired to do.

Not to mention that the monumental risk that a company takes on when they do moonshot projects. There are very lax expectations of any profitability in the near term, so there seems to be large disincentives to invest heavily ... esp when the company is public and facing quarter by quarter scrutiny.

nostrademons• 11 years ago

Because more engineers makes for a worse product, particularly if you're doing something very innovative that requires a lot of iteration.

The amount of code you can write grows linearly with number of engineers, but communication costs grow quadratically. Therefore, the speed at which you can execute is inversely proportional to the size of the team, unless you can cut communication costs. Established projects can do this with architectural decisions that prevent one engineer from needing to know about or communicate with other engineers working on unrelated parts of the product. New projects cannot, because the architecture hasn't been established yet. That's why every innovative product grows out of a small team.

aakster• 11 years ago

I think also because there is some negative sentiment to projects like these from people like bill gates, companies like FB try to keep it on the down low until they have something worth showing.

motoboi2• 11 years ago

There is this idea that small teams with great leadership are more effective at innovation.

kelvin0• 11 years ago

So the NSA`s 'surveillance' activities can now look like a benevolent mary poppins feel good internet provider? Don't get me wrong, I would have loved to have worked on such a project ... just not for FB ... sorry, not a fan.

shirro• 11 years ago

I hate Facebook and what it does to people. There is nothing worse than sitting in a room full of zombies on their mobiles. Despite all the great tech my first thought is how satisfying it would be for one of these to be taken down by a ground to Facebook missile.

roymurdock• 11 years ago

There's an interesting phenomenon where people in developing countries begin to think that Facebook is the full extent of the internet:

Indonesians surveyed by Galpaya told her that they didn’t use the internet. But in focus groups, they would talk enthusiastically about how much time they spent on Facebook. Galpaya, a researcher (and now CEO) with LIRNEasia, a think tank, called Rohan Samarajiva, her boss at the time, to tell him what she had discovered. “It seemed that in their minds, the Internet did not exist; only Facebook,” he concluded. [1]

I feel extremely lucky and privileged to have grown up with an open internet, where there was at least some (diminishing) percent of websites that did not treat me like a product to be marketed to advertisers, prodding and analyzing, constantly gamifying and creeping ever-inwards on my privacy. I deactivated my account a few months ago because it felt like Facebook was taking more from me in terms of time and energy than I was gaining from it.

There is a huge benefit to bringing the connectivity of Facebook to developing countries and remote territories. Many people wouldn't be able to run businesses or keep in touch with family without it.

I just wish it didn't come with the strangely uncomfortable, sell-your-soul type of vibe that a project funded by publicly owned, for-profit venture usually generates. Especially when PR tries to spin it off as a charitable or humane act. Once you go public, it's about profit and it always will be. And a lot of the time, that's fine. Our country was founded and continues to run on capitalistic principles. Just don't hide behind any false pretenses and you'll have my support 100%.

[1] http://qz.com/333313/milliions-of-facebook-users-have-no-ide...

forgetsusername• 11 years ago

think that Facebook is the full extent of the internet:

My mother wanted to "get on the internet" because of the Facebook phenomenon a few years ago. Now she thinks Facebook is the full extent of the internet. Googling something or visiting a "homepage" is completely foreign to her. She'll search in the Facebook bar or ask questions in her feed if she's looking for information. Now she has a smartphone, and outside of texting and the odd call, only uses the Facebook app.

Obviously, her aptitude and usage is minimal, but it's an interesting phenomenon to behold.

dopamean• 11 years ago

You would describe your mother's aptitude as "obviously minimal?"

Retrograderz• 11 years ago

Most likely she just prefers it that way.

Sure, could Google search, but Facebook search is right there plus she likes it.

qmalxp2• 11 years ago

Back in the day, I think many people equated AOL with "The Internet".

eitally• 11 years ago

But back in the day, AOL was more closely equated with something like a Yahoo-style content homepage & search box that also offered ISP connectivity services, which was critical for millions who were unserved by what was at the time "high speed" DSL or cable ISPs. Mailing bazillions of installer CDs worked -- who'd have guessed!

eric-hu3• 11 years ago

I'm spending some time traveling in Thailand. While topping off my phone data package, I noticed that you can pay for a "Facebook and Line only" data package. [1]

Locals have told me the role that Facebook and Instagram play in eCommerce here is different from how it is in the states. Many physical product merchants will set up a Facebook or Instagram account for their store. They'll post their products as pictures, take payments via Line, and then ship merchandise once cash is received. Since Facebook and IG are eCommerce platforms, giving FB + limited net access means more than just accessing a social network.

I too, find it off-putting that Facebook markets this project as charity work, but I think the picture is grey at best and at worst.

[1] translate.google.co.th/translate?hl=en&sl=th&u=http://truemoveh.truecorp.co.th/topping/&prev=search

PakG1• 11 years ago

So Facebook is the new AOL/Compuserve in some places. Did AOL die because people prefer the full open Internet, or did AOL die because it was too limited? Either way, history will likely repeat itself. Are people on this thread really worried that as things develop, people won't want to reach outside of the wall garden eventually? I think they will naturally.

TheSpiceIsLife4• 11 years ago

You're probably right. It'll be interesting to see what sort of protocol tunnelling people create. IOFM - Internet Over Facebook Messenger and such.

Onochie• 11 years ago

I believe that as facebook gains the territory, so does Instagram, messenger, WhatsApp, and every other acquired product. So the plan isn't really to just deliver internet service but to buy up the social world in the area without competitors. Since about 1.49 billion of the 1/3 of the internet enabled regions use one of Facebook products even with the competitions, it's evident that this project would triple their impact.

trhway• 11 years ago

multiple months on station - dream come true for data acquisition in a lot of civilian and not very civilian applications. Like a platform for that gigapixel/Argus continuously recording everything happening in the city. Almost not existent noise and IR signature, and with carbon fiber construction i'd suppose very low radar cross-section. It can toil for months near China/Russia/etc. airspace listening/watching/etc. Or electronic CAP/AWACS kind of mission during peace time over aircraft carrier group. Sky isn't even the limit :)

jacquesm4• 11 years ago

AOL 2.0.

deft• 11 years ago

Why are people on HN actually supporting this? Facebook built a plane to beam its horrible timesink to even more people. Facebook is not a good thing. No company "gives things away" out of the good of their heart. They built a PLANE. Honestly, the only word I can describe this with is: scary.

restalis• 11 years ago

Lasers are a poor choice for atmospheric communication, unless this kind of infrastructure is specifically designed to be deployed in places like deserts with a clear sky all the year around!

mnw21cam• 11 years ago

At 60,000 feet altitude, the sky is pretty clear all the year round. There is also a lot less air, further reducing distortion and attenuation.

meric• 11 years ago

Another attempt at producing a machine that can fly for months. The Pluto project[1]:

"The nuclear engine could, in principle, operate for months, so a Pluto cruise missile could be left airborne for a prolonged time before being directed to carry out its attack."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto

Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

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