Why Can’t We Fall Asleep?

http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/why-cant-we-fall-asleep

by phodo • 11 years ago

152 110 11 years ago

newyorker.com

jfaat• 11 years ago

The twitter query string should be removed from this link

dang• 11 years ago

Thanks, done.

wodenokoto• 11 years ago

Does anyone know what the cognitive behavioural therapy the article refers to is?

I know what it is in general, but how does it relate to sleep?

jrapdx3• 11 years ago

One important part of CBT for sleep is education about "sleep hygiene". This is the set of optimum behaviors or practices that promote sleep. Salient elements include establishing and maintaining a suitable sleep schedule, especially arising at a consistent time. "Winding down" well before bedtime, and minimizing light exposure in the evening will be helpful. IOW turning off light sources at the right time is encouraged.

That light exposure part is getting a lot of discussion re: computers, phones, TV's, etc., being produced with ever brighter screens. Idea is that staring at a "device" activates the wake-drive and interferes with sleep onset.

Other CBT measures aim to promote relaxation, reduce anxiety and "over-thinking" when it would be counterproductive. Put another way, reducing arousal at night is the goal.

Goes without saying particular approaches will vary with the individual, but these are some of the basics.

thirdsun• 11 years ago

I can't say how effective it is from a scientific perspective, but since it will be mentioned at some point in this discussion I might as well bring it up now:

F.lux has become an essential tool for me. It changes the color temperature of your monitor, reducing cool/blue light and replacing it with warmer tones, which should helps getting good sleep. It does for me at least. Wish it was available for nom-jailbroken iPads though.

silencio• 11 years ago

It's basically CBT tailored towards insomnia. Identifying and addressing behaviors and thought patterns that make it difficult to sleep. Sleep hygiene, mindfulness, etc.

As a sidenote, I did find a lovely PDF a while ago with a bunch of good sleep hygiene tips. As always, it's implementing the suggestions that is difficult, but :) http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/Info-sleep%20hygiene.pd...

marak8306• 11 years ago

Thank you for the link, ill definatly read that when im home.

I also agree with its hard to do the recommended sometimes :-s. 8 hour work, 2 hour total travel, then i need to code my own project -.-

fredley• 11 years ago

I have had great success with Sleepio: http://www.sleepio.com.

It is a ~6 week CBT course that teaches you to have good hygiene, while at the same time understand what is preventing you personally from sleeping well, and developing your own routine.

eCa• 11 years ago

The ending felt a bit abrupt, so I guess that will probably be expanded on in part II or III of the series.

codev• 11 years ago

This article on a site I manage provides a great overview of sleep hygiene and other behavioural changes needed for good sleep http://en.hdbuzz.net/120

It applies to anyone, not just Huntington's disease patients. The article is a humanised version of an article from a special edition of Experimental Neurology on sleep disorders: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00144886/243/su...

m_fayer3• 11 years ago

I'm surprised the article mentions the blue light problem and devices but does not talk about flux, it's a little app that shifts the color temperature of your display to match what you're supposed to see at your location given the time of day. So, after sunset your screen basically turns orange. Although it's a bit annoying and takes some getting used to, I've tried it on and off and whenever I'm using it I fall asleep and stay asleep much better than without.

A big problem for me with iPhones compared to android is that something like flux cannot work on them, so I have to avoid my device late in the evening to not disrupt my sleep.

bauc• 11 years ago

I use flux and have found it beneficial, I tend to sleep better since using it. It's made me more aware of the affects of light on sleep.

What app are you using on android?

ikurei2• 11 years ago

The only flux-like app on Android I know of is Twilight[0]. I've been using it for longer that I can remember and I have no complains.

[0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid...

mikehawkins• 11 years ago

Great recommendation - I immediately spotted the point about blue light, but wasn't aware of high quality sleep apps that help address the problem. Looking forward to trying your guys' suggested apps.

txdv• 11 years ago

there is also gtk-redshift for linux which is a small tray menu for redshift, a command line equivalent for linux.

That being said, since I started using redshift, I usually go to sleep at 12 oclock. I used to do late hours before.

ionised• 11 years ago

F.lux is great.

I agree that the shift towards red light on your monitor is weird at first but after a short while you get used to it, and your monitor starts to look very weird without it.

m_fayer3• 11 years ago

Now non-fluxed monitors at night somehow feel rude to me. Like someone waving a flashlight in my face.

PepeGomez2• 11 years ago

There is also some evidence that yellow light causes nearsightedness, so be careful with that.

kristofferR5• 11 years ago

Really? Do you have any sources/links so I can read more about that?

shanth• 11 years ago

For phones there are apps like "Screen Filter".. that only reduces lighting exposure though..

veidr2• 11 years ago

Acting on a tip from an HN user on a similar thread this year, I ordered these blue light blocking glasses[1] for only $10.

If you can get past the goofy look (perhaps a bit more problematic at work than at home), they work great, and obviously they work with any device.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000USRG90?psc=1&redirect=t...

jwdunne• 11 years ago

Not just goofy. Most people in the UK would associate glasses like that with ali G:

http://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/deedfyOGpiI8a2UWYdSCFLjbX...

In all seriousness, how do they affect colour? If you're working on a front-end web project or design, could these be problematic?

alandarev• 11 years ago

That would become advertising of a product then...

Also, one can easily reduce/remove Blue from any monitor using hardware settings alone.

m_fayer3• 11 years ago

There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying something like "there are now several projects/products that aim to alleviate this problem, such as ProjectA and ProjectB." Also f.lux is freeware.

These apps are also a lot more feature rich than twiddling with display settings - you can customize their aggressiveness, set times, set timed breaks for color-sensitive work, sync to the sunset in your location, etc. You could do this all manually but I doubt anyone actually would.

kristofferR5• 11 years ago

Try getting the Uvex S1933X glasses. They work for everything in your view (obviously) without messing around with software, and probably works better too.

I have them, and they're amazing. I have pretty cool LED lighting in my apartment and can make my whole living room any color I want at night. If I set in to pure blue and put on the glasses, it's like being in pitch blackness (except a couple of items glow brightly).

It's not like looking at things with an orange tint at all, even though the glasses are obviously orange.

That being said - the benefits I get by using them is amazing. It's weird how much of a difference it can make, I get tired quickly after putting them on in the evening. If I forget to put them on I usually end up staying up too late, getting too little sleep and often ruining the next day. Personally I find it way more effective than flux.

By the way - blue light isn't just a negative thing, but also a huge positive. In the morning I use a Philips goLITE BLU HF3332, and it really improves both my energy and mood quickly after just a few minutes of usage.

Those two simple items, a blue light and a pair of blue-blocking glasses, have improved my life significantly. Try it out (especially the glasses, it's just $9).

mistermann4• 11 years ago

I have pretty cool LED lighting in my apartment and can make my whole living room any color I want at night.

This sounds very cool, any chance you could post a picture of your living room with some different colors?

justacat• 11 years ago

I know there’s a variety of led lighting options out there, do you have any recommendations based on your experience?

CookieMon• 11 years ago

I frequently hear about flux but yours is the first explanation to make me want to try it.

Usually people praise how "how easy on the eyes" it is etc, but I'm quite happy with white and my eyes are fine.

While tired late at night, I've noticed how much of a pick-me-up it is when playing games such as Skyrim/Fallout 3 (which put effort into a realistic day/night visual cycle) and dawn becomes morning in the game.

It never occurred to me to take advantage of the opposite of that effect.

jamesfe• 11 years ago

Ah yes, I tried f.lux for some time. I was annoyed sometimes late at night that it would battle me, forcing me to recognize that I should be going to bed...but I guess what's best for you isn't always what you want.

minikites• 11 years ago

Does f.lux affect the brightness or does it just make everything look like a sodium lamp? Bright light is still a problem, regardless of how jaundiced you make it.

Garthex• 11 years ago

F.lux is available on jailbroken iPhones. https://justgetflux.com/ios.html

nomercy400• 11 years ago

Is the blue light bothering you?

- Windows/Linux: f.lux

- Android: twilight

ikurei2• 11 years ago

For Linux I had much more success using Redshift that flux.

I can't quite remember what flux was missing that Redshift had. Does flux have an indicator on the notification/indicators area?

provemewrong3• 11 years ago

If you are rooted, then CF.lumen is a better choice than twilight, because it is a hardware filter instead of a software overlay. And f.lux is also available for jailbroken iOS devices.

spuz2• 11 years ago

It's interesting that the article mentions the importance of not disrupting the body's natural ability to produce melatonin but does not mention melatonin when talking about sleep medication. As far as I understand artifial melatonin actually increases REM sleep, does not trigger sleep walking and can be taken for longer than a week. In my experience it does increase the intensity of dreams which could be a negative side effect if you are prone to nightmares. I went through a period of poor pre bed habits - staying up late, using my phone and not taking the time to unwind and I would take .75 mg of melatonin right before going to sleep in an effort to 'correct' for my bad habits. I would not recommend this as a lifestyle at all but if you have to rely on medication, melatonin seems to be one of the more effective sleep aids out there.

marak8306• 11 years ago

Im on melatonin at the moment. Its nice to hear about someone else, id nnever heard of it before the doctor recommended it before sleeping tablets.

DanielBMarkham• 11 years ago

I've been on melatonin for a very long time. Maybe 10-15 years.

It took a very long time for it to not work as well as it used to, but that finally happened.

I find that even with poor sleep, you get more REM and more "recharge" with a healthy dose of melatonin. As far as sleep goes, in my mind it's a miracle drug.

provemewrong3• 11 years ago

I hadn't heard about melatonin until a thread on reddit where everyone was raving about it and sharing stories about how it knocks them right out. Now I ocassionally take a pill, but I don't really feel any effects and I'm still not entirelly sure if it is putting me to sleep faster or not. I still take it at least for the placebo effect and because it's fairly cheap.

mistermann4• 11 years ago

I would not recommend this as a lifestyle at all

Is there a reason for that, is it dangerous longer term? I've been taking 10mg nighlty for a while now compared to your .75mg, a girl I know says her grandmother has been taking it for decades and swears by it, and she's fit as a fiddle.

spuz2• 11 years ago

I was using melatonin to compensate for otherwise easily rectifiable poor habits in the same way that many people stay up everynight and wake up with 5 cups of coffee. Fix your habits first then if you need further help think about medication.

dhimes• 11 years ago

I find that taking melatonin for a few nights in a row sort of corrects me for a while. Then I would go off of it until I had a few days of poor sleep (usually off for several weeks).

I started having nightmares/anxiety dreams so I stopped. At first I thought maybe there was something about different formulations (brands) of melatonin but then the 'good' brand also started giving me anxiety dreams. Did they change their formulation to cut costs? Or is it me? I can't be sure.

jaredandrews• 11 years ago

Like many people here I have difficulty sleeping. I took melatonin for a while and it definitely helped. But it had the unfortunate side effect of inducing sleep paralysis. Anyone else run into to this issue?

dimitar2• 11 years ago

But it may be that the most important aspect of sleep hygiene has to do with light I'm not convinced.

The most important thing for sleep is your eating habits - if you want to wake up early eat very early dinners. If you want to wake up at 8 am, your last meal of the day should be at 6 pm (14 hours before that).

This works so well, that it overrides the effects of alcohol and caffeine and often even how tired you are. Even if you usually stay up until 3 am you'll get very sleepy at midnight and you'll wake up at 8. If fact even if you are prevented from sleeping until 3, you'll still wake up at 8 after just 5 hours of sleep. Have a full breakfast to avoid sleeping during the day - the next day you'll probably get sleepy at midnight again, even if you have dinner a bit later than 6.

Why does this work? Your 'food clock' will override all the other timers that govern your sleep habits. I cannot find the sources for this, but there are pretty good biological reasons this works. I know that I have used this rule many times for my benefit when working shift work or travelling or even getting back in rhythm after a vacation.

Edit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7414437.stm - I've added this report from the BBC as a source. I've used 14 hours instead of 16 but I find it works about the same for me.

BuildTheRobots2• 11 years ago

Apparently you can use a similar trick to overcome jetlag by fasting. One of those articles might have more information about the 'food clock' overriding other timers.

Though personally, I find the biggest difference in being able to sleep comes from avoiding screens and reading a book (or eink) instead.

Dragonai• 11 years ago

Would it be safe to assume that reading from a Kindle Paperwhite with the backlight on is closer to being a screen than a book? I read mine very regularly at night and wonder if it's more effective to keep a lamp on and read with the backlight off (as opposed to reading in the dark with the backlight on and heavily dimmed).

Nimitz14• 11 years ago

I never knew about this and eat late dinners. Thanks.

pjc50• 11 years ago

If you want to wake up at 8 am, your last meal of the day should be at 6 pm (14 hours before that).

Sadly that's not very compatible with even a 9-5 job + commute, let alone many people's extended days.

xsace• 11 years ago

if you want to wake up early eat very early dinners.

Have a full breakfast to avoid sleeping during the day

Those 2 facts seem conflicting to me. In one case food deprivation helps you wake up while the other case it would make you feel asleep?

dimitar2• 11 years ago

It is an interesting question (so I up-voted it), but they are not conflicting since it doesn't happen at the some.

I don't think it is really food deprivation - any healthy human being should be able to go 16 hours between meals once in a while (assuming regular meals most of the time). When you wake up you do wake up hungry, but you don't feel impaired yet.

Food deprivation may start after that - so you might get lethargic and sleepy because of it.

abstractbeliefs• 11 years ago

It seems more like "Having food in you keeps you awake" - so a big breakfast will keep you running until the afternoon, and an early dinner will mean the tanks less full when you want to sleep.

Ntrails• 11 years ago

The question is about falling asleep, rather than waking up early right? Waking up early is simply a question of alarms/light/whatever.

Eating early will have no measurable impact on the ability to "wind down" and sleep as far as I can see, nor does that link seem to support it?

I can pretty much always sleep (I'm lucky) and I go to bed late (I'm dumb and play too much dota) - so I struggle with the waking up thing. This is despite not really eating in the evenings. Anecdotally I'm just saying I don't think there's one most important thing - just a set of factors and decisions which have an impact.

cafard• 11 years ago

If only.

I long to be able to turn in at 10 pm, but our household has for many years tended toward late dinner times (8:30 or 9 pm). But once it is daylight, I wake up. On weekends I might be able to manage an extra hour or two of interrupted sleep.

restalis2• 11 years ago

Having 5 meals per day, eating at 6 means for me falling asleep at 9, because at 10 I get hungry again and due to that hunger going to sleep afterwards becomes a nightmare. It's hard for me to imagine getting myself to fall asleep at 3 am in this condition!

bryanlarsen• 11 years ago

I believe that the large meal effect has an impact on how easy it is to wake up, but little effect on how hard it is to fall asleep, at least for me.

Or it could just be that everybody's different.

It's a very common pattern in rural areas to have a quick nap after large meals. It's mostly done because exercise on a full stomach is a bad idea, but it's also done because the heavy meal makes it easier to fall asleep. We're all familiar with the "thanksgiving turkey effect", which has very little to do with tryptophan and lots to do with the large meal.

Personally, I can fall asleep quickly if these conditions are met:

- no caffeine within the last 8-12 hours.

- one hour since last significant blue screen exposure

- my mind is calm

- I'm not over-tired

Large meals do not appear to have any impact on me.

The last two may be the same effect; I find it difficult to calm myself when I'm overtired.

Tenoke• 11 years ago

I wake up at 8, but if I have my last mean at 6 PM then I will be practically unable to fall asleep at midnight from the hunger.

Also given how thin the provided evidence is, I am not sure why this is the top comment.

belorn• 11 years ago

Eating a full breakfast in order to avoid sleeping during the day might be an excellent advice to those that got a healthy digestion, healthy sugar levels and in general are a person in good health.

ken-chen• 11 years ago

There probably isn't just one sleep signal: there is a sleep drive (process S) and a circadian alertness signal that counteracts that (process C).

http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/meu/solving_sleep_just_...

If the 'food clock' exists, there is a good chance that it works by inhibiting the circadian alertness signal, thus making the body feel more sleepy on net, until the alertness level rises again naturally.

bmurphy19762• 11 years ago

I have not read the article (yet).

I used to have trouble falling asleep, to the point where I was concerned enough to go to a doctor about it, but I never followed up after the first visit. Instead I not very intentionally made some adjustments on my own which resolved my situation:

1. No lights/noise. Get rid of all blinky things, particularly blue and green lights. Faint red lights are tolerable. Black electrical tape is a gift, use it! Noisy computer fans are bad! Turn off the computer or move it into a different room.

2. Take better care of yourself! Eat better, get more exercise, and get up at a consistent time every morning. A healthy routine is important.

3. Don't worry about it! If you lay awake all night worrying about the sleep you are "missing" you are only making the problem worse. You don't need to worry about it, you will be fine. We miss sleep ALL THE TIME and are still functional members of society.

Once I stopped worrying, even the rare nights where I can't sleep go faster because I'm not focused on the clock. I use the time to think about more interesting and less worrisome things or get out of bed and do something productive.

Also, as others have said, Flux is great! I also have Twilight on my Android phone! I love them both.

raducu• 11 years ago

I used to take hours to fall asleep. Some things that helped a lot: 1. Twilight on android and on my laptop 2. Thicker curtains. 3. "Meditating" in bed with my eyes closed.

My version of meditation is laying in bed with my eyes closed and actively trying to shut off all thoughts; at first it seems it's not working because I'm suddenly aware of everything around me and I feel more awake. But after 5-10 minutes I no longer see the "noise" with my eyes closed but instead I start seeing images. Once I start seeing images with my eyes closed I know I'll be asleep in a few minutes.

bmurphy19762• 11 years ago

Hah, that sounds very much like something I used to do when I was younger. I would focus on one muscle at a time intentionally making each relax as much as possible. Start at the top of my head and work my way down to my toes. Once I was fully relaxed I would focus on clearing my mind, emptying it of thoughts. See nothing, hear nothing (except maybe my breathing/heart beat).

I haven't had to do that in years. I really don't have trouble falling asleep anymore (much to my wife's dismay).

restalis2• 11 years ago

Something I noticed in my falling asleep pattern (and did not found in the article yet) is the relation with the air I breathe. It's very easy for me to fall asleep somewhere in the middle of green forest and the other way around - I noticed that I sleep badly in a medium that for some reasons had insufficient aeration. Is it possible for the loss of sleep across the century to have something to do with the quality of our air?

liox• 11 years ago

While enrolled in a nighttime masters degree a few years ago I started taking low dose melatonin and it had a huge impact on my ability to get restful sleep. It prompted me to look into other sleep hacks and since then I've really been able to hone my ability to get great sleep most any night and under any condition — even when the duration isn't as long as I'd like. I really feel like a new person.

Here are some of the tricks I've found work well:

- Low dose melatonin: I've tried higher doses but there's a fair amount of literature out there stating that less is more [0]. My own experiences seem to confirm this, but melatonin definitely affects people differently! I can take it and be able to hop out of bed (morning person), but my gf (who's NOT a morning person) has tried it and ended up feeling even more like a zombie. Melatonin's definitely not for some people.

- f.lux: I've always felt that it gives your screen the quality of the page of a book. It's hard to describe the feeling, but removing the blue light definitely has a relaxing effect. I'm at the point now where if I turn off in the evening (maybe to see a graphic) I'll actually cringe.

- Sleep Cycle app: I started using this app when I read about how timing your wake up based on 90 minute sleep cycles [1] can help you avoid that morning groggy feeling. This was interesting because I'd definitely had those mornings where I got less sleep than usual but still felt awake – I was always curious about the reason. I've used the app for a little over a year and typically wake up before my alarm anyway, but the app seems to be pretty good at determining when I'm in the lightest stage.

- Earplugs: Living in a city that does garbage collection at 3am prompted this one. Earplugs are my go-to sleep hack whenever I'm traveling. I've found they help for general concentration as well.

I'm convinced the above helped me successfully complete my masters degree and also hold down 3 jobs (9-5 and 2 after hours startup roles) since then. It might seem like a lot of lifestyle change, but I did it gradually as I learned more about the science of sleep and also experienced the benefits first hand. They probably won't work for everyone, but they're worth a shot to see if they can help you!

[0] http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017

[1] http://lifehacker.com/remember-the-90-minute-rule-to-ensure-...

Qantourisc• 11 years ago

If anyone feels brave. You could also dynamically set the screen brightness. I have a script for DDC communication with the screen on Linux (if you screen and video card supports it). It uses the program ddccontrol, but my script is really messy and needs a lot of cleanup. If you have nvidia: check https://goo.gl/BIW8ax for DDC crash issues.

henryV• 11 years ago

My problem is the opposite. I can fall asleep very easily. Over 8 or 9 o'clock in the evening, if I'm doing something that doesn't require too much attention (like watching a film or something like that) I start to feel asleep and it's very hard not to.

The funny thing is that, if I let myself sleep for a few minutes (5-15), then I wake up fresh and ready to be awake a bunch of hours more (and it doesn't prevent me from getting asleep later).

riledhel• 11 years ago

This is (sort of like) humans used to sleep until the industrial revolution. Couple of links http://www.livescience.com/12891-natural-sleep.html http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783

provemewrong3• 11 years ago

The funny thing is that, if I let myself sleep for a few minutes (5-15)

You're essentially taking a nap and waking up before entering deep sleep. This is the refreshing kind of nap. Conversely sleeping just a few minutes more and waking up in the middle of deep sleep would make you feel grumpy and tired. There are some polyphasic sleep techniques that basically exploit this and have sveral short naps of light sleep throughout the 24 day instead of a night's sleep.

thebouv• 11 years ago

I can't fall asleep because I can't get my brain to STFU.

When I can lay down, regardless of hour of night, with a quiet brain, I fall right asleep.

95% of the time though, my brain won't stop. I stay away from screens after a certain hour, I try not to think about work (not always successful). But still, sometimes my brain just won't quit. It's super frustrating.

erikb2• 11 years ago

For me it helps to play computer games after work/school which take me away from my real world problems and don't challenge me too much. Basically something that gives me a good feeling of no fear and maybe even success without doing much for it. That helped me a lot to fight this brain-STFU problem.

Good tv shows also work, because watching tv basically is no challenge but is able to transfer your thoughts from your problems to problems that aren't yours which is less stressful.

knodi123• 11 years ago

I've heard practicing zazen can help with the STFU aspect. Presumably it's something they have techniques to deal with. I know several people who do it, and they assure me it's taught them a lot about how to control their minds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazen

JustSomeNobody• 11 years ago

I have this same problem. I have found that if, right before bed, I find some single simple puzzle or problem to think about I can mute the other stuff and just focus on that. I feel like it helps me fall asleep faster.

IndianAstronaut• 11 years ago

Try watching documentaries about space.

prostoalex• 11 years ago

This was helpful http://aypsite.org/books-dm.html

Basically, the trick is to concentrate all your attention on one mantra, and then remove the mantra to quiet the thought process. It's a learned skill, so just takes practice.

AC__• 11 years ago

Smoke some weed and ground yourself, literally ground yourself(run a wire from the ground plug of a wall outlet), while you sleep. Humans are fucking retarded, we have way too much HF radio waves and EMF in our environment now.

chdir2• 11 years ago

I had a severe case of not being able to sleep if my mind was busy after dinner time e.g. coding, debugging, mentally solving a problem. Adjusting light temperature, using flux software etc. helped marginally, but never attacked the root of the problem. What really helped was meditation i.e. being able to take my mind away from everything & focus on /dev/null. It is like a magic button. I can fall asleep whenever I consciously wish to divert my attention. Just a single book & a month of practice.

Next challenge : Wake up whenever I feel like. Haven't found the magic button yet. All the fancy alarm clocks, sleep trackers, REM techniques aren't helping.

burke• 11 years ago

Same experience here. For me it was two realizations:

1. Focusing awareness via meditation techniques is a great sleep aid.

2. When your mind is buzzing, it's because it thinks it needs to work through problems or solidify memories before it shuts down for the night. Sometimes it's right, and rather than fighting that:

  a. Give your mind other time to garbage collect than the moments before sleep;
  b. Don't feed your mind new problems in the last hour or two before bed.

orbitur• 11 years ago

b. Don't feed your mind new problems in the last hour or two before bed.

This has always been the key problem, for me and I suspect for many others.

I need to be asleep by midnight or 1am if I want any chance of feeling okay the next day. That means I need to stop working around 10pm or earlier, to give my mind ample time to just fucking let go of whatever I was concentrating on. I can leave the laptop open, browse reddit, follow Twitter links, or watch TV. But the IDE and email have to close.

It sucks, it's hard, but I discovered sleep is pretty damn valuable, and most of the time what I'm working on isn't actually due at 7am the next morning.

udfalkso• 11 years ago

What book?

matrix2• 11 years ago

Most likely he's referring to this book:

B. Stahl & E. Goldstein, A Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Workbook

chdir2• 11 years ago

1. "Mindfulness in Plain English" - Bhante Henepola Gunaratana. Really liked it & easy to follow.

2. "Peace Is Every Step: The Path of Mindfulness in Everyday Life" - Thich Nhat Hanh. Also good, but found it a bit repetitive. Maybe because I'd already gone through the first one.

Edit: My advice is to read the book so that you enjoy it. After a little bit of practice, you'll find that when you want to sleep, just meditate a little bit. The mind will feel lighter and you will automatically drift to sleep. Don't force yourself to shut off your mind, let it happen gradually. Observe yourself when you drift away. In short, cherish the process, don't take it as an exercise.

JaggedJax• 11 years ago

The alarm I use on my phone is set to only turn off when a specific NFC tag is scanned. I have the tag placed down the hall in my bathroom.

It is the best alarm trick I've used to date and the only one that hasn't worn off after a couple of months. I absolutely hate it in the morning, but it works.

The one danger is getting frustrated and powering off my phone, but I've found even my half asleep self doesn't want to do this. I have backup physical alarm clocks just in case though.

bemmu2• 11 years ago

That's brilliant, has this been featured on Lifehacker yet? Seems like perfect material for them.

zeidrich• 11 years ago

I've fluctuated between being able to sleep easily and being unable to go to bed.

In the end the issue has always been satisfaction. If I feel satisfied at the end of the day, there's no resistance to sleep. If I am "missing" something to satisfy me, I follow that craving and keep myself up far too late. Sometimes that's stimulation, sometimes it's entertainment, sometimes it's relaxation.

Meditation 'cures' the issue for me too, but not really. The issue is that when I am in the state that keeps me from being able to sleep, I tend to put off trying to meditate, in the same way I put off going to bed. It helps, but the root of it is finding balance in my day.

Even through meditation if certain mental needs aren't being met, my mind will get forced off track. Sometimes I need more creative stimulation, sometimes I need to get lost in a good story, sometimes I just need to space out and let some background processes clean up.

My best sleep and wake cycle happened when I had a bit of a mental (hormonal?) boost after my daughter was born. It seems a bit funny, because most people complain about how they lose sleep with the baby needing to be fed etc. But for about 6 months everything just felt right, and at 9 or 10 PM or whatever, going to bed just felt right, like there wasn't anything else in the day that I wished that I could do. I'd wake up after getting enough sleep without an alarm at 6:30 or so, and my daughter was sleeping through the night.

Now that ultimate satisfaction feeling has kind of worn off, my daughter is 2, is pretty demanding of my time, and when I get home from work it's a constant stream of doing things for other people without an opportunity to attend to my own needs. Forcing myself to go to sleep at 9 more than a couple of days in a row becomes impossible just because by that point my body just says "Fuck you, you aren't sleeping, you have things I need you to do. Fun things. Or at least you better start looking for something fun."

And the more tired I am, the harsher that is. In general, my best successes come from getting enough rest in the first place. The more tired I am going into a day, the harder it is to feel satisfied by the end of it, and the harder it is to sleep.

To that end, I nap on the weekend to catch up on sleep. It's part of my schedule to the point that my wife expects it. No matter how rough the week is, by Saturday afternoon I'll probably have caught up.

The other thing I try to do is be cognizant of what I'm craving and feed that need. A lot of sort of wasted time can happen while you're frustrated that you want something but you're not sure what it is, or you avoid it for some reason. Maybe I've had an exhausting but not very mentally stimulating week and I've been playing a lot of video games. I might have previously tried to force myself to not play video games if I felt I was playing them too much, but that would lead to me procrastinating on anything else either, and then ultimately caving when it got late in the evening and playing anyways but playing too late. Now I might recognize that that's the kind of stimulation that I'm missing, and get it out of the way ASAP, which might be enough to let me get to bed a little earlier.

Waking up is easy when you actually sleep as much as your body wants, no alarm needed even. The real problem is getting to bed early enough that you consistently get to sleep as much as your body wants while still feeding those needs. If you have a mentally unsatisfying and draining day, and all you can do after you come home is cook, clean, and go to sleep in order to get enough sleep to get up for work the next day, you're going to find that soon you won't be able to sleep again, because your brain is kicking your ass for not meeting its needs.

sturakov• 11 years ago

It's very encouraging to hear someone else has trouble sleeping for the same reasons.

Just to add on to what you've said, I find myself holding off sleeping because it means that another work-day is waiting when I wake up.

Meaning, when the time to go to sleep (a good time) rolls around, all I can think of is all the things I haven't done that I should do. And that is stressful, so I end up holding off sleep even more, doing shit to distract myself. Such as Reddit, Quora, or YCombinator.

The things that I feel like I should have done are either personal growth or skill-improvement, or something (like you said) that I wanted to do to meet my own needs.

And it is really frustrating because it makes work a ton harder and it's discouraging, because I know I'm not performing at, or near, 100% like I could be.

I don't know what a good solution is, but it was helpful to read someone else who struggles with the same problem. Thanks for your story.

Cheers.

ripter• 11 years ago

The magic button to wake up for me was having a schedule. I goto bed and wake up at the same time every day (even the weekends). It took me months, but forcing myself to physically get out of bed every morning did the trick. Now I wake up without an alarm clock.

_dark_matter_• 11 years ago

Ugh. I love all these solutions and you're totally right, but...kids.

bemmu2• 11 years ago

I've tried meditation, which seemed to helpful for my mental well being, but seemed not to be the same state of mind I need to be in to fall asleep. The type of meditation I looked into involves not pursuing thoughts and just acknowledging them. Sleep seems to be more about following silly imaginary things across different associations.

contingencies• 11 years ago

#1 reason is probably coffee.

#2 reason is probably artificial lighting slash screens.

glynjackson2• 11 years ago

I often work late or watch movies on my laptop in bed. About 6 months ago I read about how screens/backlight have a negative effect on sleep pattens. I found an app called Flux (https://justgetflux.com/). A simple idea that makes a computer's display adapt to the time of day. I still have problem sleeping but, not as much as I use to!

glynjackson2• 11 years ago

Is there any evidence that dark colour schemes when coding help sleep pattens? I ask because after using the default theme of sublimetext for 6 months then going back to white background for a few days made it difficult to sleep at night. Anyone else found this?

Gnarl• 11 years ago

Try sleeping in a place away from sources of RF/EMF. Tent in the woods, log cabin, car even (not a Tesla though).

Why Can’t We Fall Asleep?

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