Sprite: a different drone

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ascentaerosystems/sprite-the-portable-rugged-totally-different-small

by MichaelAO • 11 years ago

133 107 11 years ago

kickstarter.com

coldcode• 11 years ago

Nice design, makes more sense than the quads.

geobmx540• 11 years ago

How does it make more sense? (Coming from someone with no clue and looking for insights)

emilecantin• 11 years ago

It has a much better form factor for carrying in a backpack than a quad; it can fit in a water bottle pocket.

pbreit• 11 years ago

I can see the benefit of collapsibility. But does it fly better (or worse)?

gnopgnip• 11 years ago

The design is more energy efficient than a quadcopter.

codezero3• 11 years ago

Can anyone savvy here weigh in on how much having a two-axis rather than three-axis gimbal will affect the stability of the video, if at all?

OrwellianChild4• 11 years ago

The third axis would just provide the ability to pan the video without rotating the drone itself. With SPRITE's pod-style helicopter design, they may be able to use the counter-rotor to provide the third axis of rotation automatically.

baddox• 11 years ago

Yes, the third axis is for yaw stability. While you certainly want that for professional aerial video, it's not at all necessary for these action sports products. Also, the aircraft can definitely yaw.

codezero3• 11 years ago

But this also ties the stability to the stability of the drone itself, if it had a third axis, that could be used to compensate for the drone stability, right?

lsaferite4• 11 years ago

Since they are using coaxial blade and vectoring via cyclic control, stabilizing the camera on a third axis would be pointless.

Worse really, it would be excess weight.

The coaxial blades are used to rotate the aircraft around that third axis. The flight controller will just adjust the calculations needed to maintain the correct heading and the corect camera direction on the fly.

The 2-axis stabilization is 'needed' to compensate for pitch/roll of the aircraft cause by the cyclic control of the blades.

I've been pretty critical of UAV kickstarters, but I actually think this one is quite interesting and likely has a bright future.

codezero3• 11 years ago

Thanks! That's really helpful.

emehrkay• 11 years ago

In the next 10 or so years, kids will have some pretty cool toys. My son would love to have this for his bike rides. 2025 these things will be as common as an iPad and will have things like environment-awareness.

This looks pretty cool. I cannot wait to see how this evolves.

stephengillie2• 11 years ago

I'm still waiting for the Perpetual Eclipse.

The Perpetual Eclipse is a quadcopter that calculates where the sun is, triangulates where your eyes are, and just floats in the direct path light travels when it gets in your eyes.

bentcorner• 11 years ago

"Point-Defense Sunglasses"

OrwellianChild4• 11 years ago

Adding SPRITE to the list of upcoming autonomous camera drones I made for the Lily announcement...

Prices/status for reference:

           Status       Release    Price
           -----------  ---------  ------------
  AirDog*  Pre-Order    Q3 2015    $1,295
  HEXO+*   Pre-Order    Sept 2015  $1,299
  IRIS+*   Available    Now        $750
  Mind4*   Kickstarter  Failed     $900-$1,489
  Solo*    Pre-Order    May 2015   $1,399
  Ares HD  Kickstarter  Feb 2016   $999
  Lily     Pre-Order    Feb 2016   $519-$1,019
  SPRITE   Kickstarter  Dec 2015   $799

  *Note that all but Ares HD, Lily, & SPRITE require a $300 GoPro camera.

Price ranges are for Pre-Order vs. Post-Ship pricing.

EDIT: Added Ares HD & Solo.

flyinglizard• 11 years ago

You need to add the 3DR Solo to the list at $999.

DrStartup• 11 years ago

Aresdrones.com - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aresdrones/ares-finally...

declan• 11 years ago

This is a great list -- thanks for posting it. FYI it looks like the IRIS+ is now $599, and the IRIS Solo is $999 and is scheduled to ship next month: https://store.3drobotics.com/products/iris

For general use, is there a compelling reason to wait until this fall or next year instead of buying the current IRIS now or the new one next month? The SPRITE looks nicely ruggedized and compact, but that's not a big a concern for me.

(I have no affiliation with any of the autonomous camera drone makers. But unless there's a compelling reason I prefer to avoid the risk of having a promised project fail to ship.)

semi-extrinsic2• 11 years ago

Add a few things like top speed, range, flight time, tracking method, and you've got yourself a nice popular webpage/blog post.

OrwellianChild4• 11 years ago

Too many pre-production products now... I'm eagerly awaiting the day when Wirecutter just has a "Best Autonomous Selfie Drone" category though... :)

AscentUAS• 11 years ago

Correction: SPRITE comes with an HD camera and gimbal AND is compatible with GoPro models!

fred256• 11 years ago

You could add nixie (flynixie.com) to that list.

pdq• 11 years ago

Did they really trademark Sprite™? Doesn't Coca Cola own that?

dragonwriter2• 11 years ago

Did they really trademark Sprite™?

Probably.

Doesn't Coca Cola own that?

Within a particular domain. Trademarks do not cover all possible commercial uses of a mark.

ceejayoz• 11 years ago

Trademarks are industry-scoped.

http://law.freeadvice.com/intellectual_property/trademark_la...

jellicle3• 11 years ago

Did they really trademark Sprite™?

No, or they would have used the R symbol instead of the TM.

Doesn't Coca Cola own that?

Yes, and under modern trademark law, Coca-Cola will be contacting/threatening them shortly, so you can expect a project name change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Trademark_Dilution_Act

narrowrail• 11 years ago

As mentioned by others, that's not how trademark law works. Soda and drones are not likely to be confused in the marketplace. I'd bet you $1000 on longbets.org that KO do not cause this company to change the name of their toy drone company.

dragonwriter2• 11 years ago

> Did they really trademark Sprite™?
No, or they would have used the R symbol instead of the TM.

The circle-R is for a registered trademark. Something can be claimed as (and protected as) a trademark -- and thus, trademarked -- without also being a registered trademark.

anigbrowl2• 11 years ago

coca cola will contact them, but that won't necessaruily result in a chage. As pointed out, drones are a distinct market from sugary drinks, sot he likelihood of consumer confusion is low. It's true that Coke's legal department will write a grumpy letter anyway, in order to create a legal record of actively defending their existing mark, which can be raised in court if they are ever confronted with a genuine infringer.

I assume/hope the Spirte team have budgeted a few $ for the legal expenses in replying to such a letter, but agree with the poster below that the cost might well be covered by the value of free publicity over a trademark dispute. I hope that's not a deliberate strategy, as it's the sort of thing that could turn into an abusive practice.

TheSisb22• 11 years ago

My one concern with all these new drones that keep popping up is the flight duration. This one is among the worst I've seen: "... flight endurance, which is currently around 12 minutes". Others in the market don't seem to be much better, clocking around 30mins - 1hr per flight.

Are any of these able to fly a preset, waypoint path for two or more hours? I don't want to be thinking about the landing just as soon as it gets up in the air.

steckerbrett2• 11 years ago

The limit is the batteries mostly. You won't be seeing that sort of performance from an electrically powered helicopter without some drastic improvements in battery power density.

mrec• 11 years ago

Or drastic reductions in weight. I don't know which is more likely.

I suppose if it gets too light then wind becomes more of a problem.

TheSisb22• 11 years ago

Couldn't you add more battery? Sure it's more weight but I'd imagine more battery would result in slightly higher power output and an increase in flight duration. The added weight would help against wind gusts too.

lambda5• 11 years ago

Nope. We're pretty much limited by battery technology on that front; you need bigger batteries to provide more power, but those bigger batteries mean more weight, which means more power needed just to stay aloft. For a battery powered multicopter, I think an hour or so is about the highest you can get (I don't think I've seen any that claim over 40 minutes), and as you point out, most drones are closer to the 15 to 20 minute range.

Of course, there are other designs like fixed wing planes which can be a bit more efficient though more complicated to navigate in confined spaces and without the ability to hover, and you can use internal combustion engines which can get you much longer flight times due to the higher energy density of their power source. But I don't think you're going to find any of the affordable, battery powered multicopters that get you anything over an hour (and even then, I would set my expectations at more like a half-hour for anything affordable in realistic conditions).

toomuchtodo3• 11 years ago

Wireless power transmission via laser:

Stalker is a small, silent UAS used by Special Operations Forces since 2006 to perform intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions. In a recent wind tunnel test, the UAS demonstrated 48 hours of continuous flight powered by this innovative laser system.
Demonstrated net positive power to Stalker in flight, at ranges up to 600 meters.
The beam director tracked the receiver for long periods, with centimeter accuracy at 500 meters, despite turbulence and aircraft maneuvers.

http://lasermotive.com/products/uav-power-links/

Note they first successfully demonstrated this outdoors 3 years ago: http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2012/au...

6502nerdface• 11 years ago

I wonder why more remote-operated drones like this aren't being designed with gasoline motors rather than electric. I remember flying all kinds of tiny gas-powered RC planes as a kid, and it's not obvious to me that the benefits of electric out-weigh the multiple-orders-of-magnitude reduction in flight time. In fact, what are the principal advantages of electric UAVs over gas-powered?

Grue3• 11 years ago

The solution is to allow the drone to hot-swap the battery. You would put a bunch of batteries along the drone's planned flight path and it would automatically detect these batteries and replace its own emptying battery with the one placed on the ground.

Potentially, if autonomous drones really take off, there could be a countrywide system of solar-powered charging stations that would supply drones with standardized batteries. Such infrastructure would be almost completely self-sufficient and allow drones to fly any distance.

In fact, this model also works for electric cars, manned or unmanned. There's no reason why Tesla Supercharger stations cannot provide a fully charged battery to swap into your car. Of course you'd have to deposit your own battery first so that you cannot get a battery for free.

digikata4• 11 years ago

If you need long endurance, then you likely need a fixed-wing system. In general, the efficiency goes: fixed wing > complex single rotor (helicopter) > multi-rotor (e.g. quadcoptor)

IgorPartola3• 11 years ago

Don't forget lighter than air craft. A GoPro + weather balloon is pretty efficient.

stephengillie2• 11 years ago

The problem is you're relying solely on the propellers for lift. Batteries are heavy and only store a small amount of electricity. You need to attach a helium balloon or some other means of lift that doesn't require electricity.

Some sort of miniaturized hot-air system might work as well.

lsaferite4• 11 years ago

Might be an interesting idea for a UAV like this to include a mount point at the top where you could attach a helium balloon that could carry some percentage of the weight less that 100%. That reduction in weight would translate into longer run-time. Of course it also would reduce maneuverability.

dankohn1• 11 years ago

I think of most of the development of drones as being what Chris Anderson calls "the peace dividend of the smartphone wars" [0]. Most of the components -- batteries, processors, radios, cameras -- have benefited enormously from the billion smartphones made every year. Unfortunately, of that list, batteries have improved the least.

[0] http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/04/29/epiphanies-from-chris-an...

yincrash• 11 years ago

One way to mitigate this is with removable batteries, so you can replace them between scenes. Both the iris and this sprite both have that feature. The lily's battery does not appear to be removable.

return03• 11 years ago

would be nice if they could at least auto-home themselves to recharge

BoardsOfCanada2• 11 years ago

Am I the only one who just can stand these promotional videos?

guitar music What if there was a... CLICK

I don't know what it is, I just get a feeling of being treated like an idiot with a wallet.

bttf• 11 years ago

Yeah, I muted the video as soon as I heard those first guitar chords.

BoardsOfCanada2• 11 years ago

Thanks, I'm just amazed that someone upvoted my grumpy post :)

Animats2• 11 years ago

"guitar music What if there was a... CLICK"

It's like Wordpress. There are templates.[1]

[1] http://videohive.net/tags/kickstarter

return03• 11 years ago

so cringefully generic. Who are these chords even trying to appeal to? ffs this drone might be used by farmers or soldiers

Animats2• 11 years ago

That's a nice piece of mechanical engineering. They crammed two full helicopter blade pitch control heads into that cylinder and made it rugged.

peterwwillis• 11 years ago

Why does it look like some sort of flying bomb? I'm much more terrified of that hitting me than a rectangular piece of plastic that doesn't look like a ballistic missile.

utku_karatas2• 11 years ago

You're not alone. Actually every time I see similar products out there I see flying death but this one specifically looks like it could drop a bite-sized doom on me. :)

The fast pace of development and availability of these kind of flying machinery is bound to create security implications sooner or later. These things would be great for assassinations or with a fleet of them you can absolutely terrorize the hell of a sizable area.

return03• 11 years ago

Also great startup opportunities.

biggc• 11 years ago

I'm going to be the childish person and say what I'm sure other people are thinking. This is a very phallic looking drone.

evan_• 11 years ago

No, this is a phallic-looking drone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRslKeT0EmQ

(arguably NSFW)

hkon2• 11 years ago

I just wonder, are drones like these purchased by "enthusiasts" in the middle-east?

hkon2• 11 years ago

3 patriots detected

tomelders• 11 years ago

Seems like a market that goosoftple will soon be entering, or at least making some acquihires

Riegerb2• 11 years ago

Looking at this from an Aerospace Engineering perspective, the weight distribution / CG properties may significantly limit the lateral movement of this vehicle; looks as such in the videos as well. This is because in order for a helicopter to move laterally it must pitch the rotors (in this case meaning the entire body) and a cg far from the rotor location makes this difficult. Something to think about.

digikata4• 11 years ago

This application might not need that much lateral performance, and the cg as is gives you nice static stability margin where you can relax all sorts of other requirements (control loop can be slower, the nav sensors can be lower performance, it's less sensitive to wind gusts, etc).

Riegerb2• 11 years ago

Absolutely - I just wanted to point this out after seeing some discussion about this as a 'follow-me' type of sports filming drone.

mhandley• 11 years ago

Don't helicopters behave similar to rockets as regards CG properties? I would think the Pendulum Rocket Fallacy would apply here too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_rocket_fallacy

In fact a large fuselage hanging down from below the rotor can cause a helicopter to become unstable. If the helicopter rolls, the rotor will slip sideways, gaining horizontal speed. The drag on the fuselage below the rotor will cause the helicopter to roll further, causing increased slip and increased horizontal speed, hences increased roll. To avoid this the rotors will have dihedral (they're angled upwards slightly). This is what gives stability.

Somewhat counterintuitively, a helicopter is actually more stable in roll if the fuselage is above the rotor, but that usually makes it hard to land safely: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Q27ho2szWCoC&pg=PA346#v=...

outworlder• 11 years ago

So, it is a helicopter with variable pitch blades.

How does it compare, reliability-wise, with quads? Quads only have to change rotation speed. This one needs to change pitch, as helicopters do.

alexander996• 11 years ago

Seems like a great thing. :) One question. Are those propellers safe? They are not covered with anything and may potentially hurt owner or other people (face, eyes).

atroyn• 11 years ago

Also on product hunt: http://www.producthunt.com/posts/sprite

IanDrake• 11 years ago

It looks like image stabilization will be difficult with this design. The camera seems to be at the bottom of a pendulum that swings as the drone moves about.

Perhaps that's why the promo video shows very little actual footage.

OrwellianChild4• 11 years ago

They're including a 2-axis gimbal that should (mostly) compensate for this.

Sprite: a different drone

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