PepsiCo to Drop Aspartame from Diet Pepsi

http://www.wsj.com/articles/pepsico-to-replace-aspartame-with-sucralose-in-diet-pepsi-in-u-s-1429885941?mod=trending_now_4

by lxm • 11 years ago

66 65 11 years ago

wsj.com

mrfusion• 11 years ago

Aren't there much better sweeteners these days? I tried erythritol a while ago and it tasted just like sugar to me. Why aren't we using that in more products?

brianbreslin• 11 years ago

Cost. Aspartame is SUUUUUUPER cheap.

pat2man• 11 years ago

Aspartame is "one of the most thoroughly tested and studied food additives the [FDA] has ever approved"[0]. Most other sweeteners are relatively new and the long term affects on humans and the environment has yet to be proven.

[0]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy

cbd1984• 11 years ago

Therefore, the conspiracy must be massive and absolutely flawless to make so many scientists think it's not Literally Satan.

It all comes together. It all makes sense. I bet it can't melt steel beams, either.

danudey2• 11 years ago

Another problem with sucralose in particular is that it appears to persist through standard wastewater treatment:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2897219/

Which means that the more sucralose we consume, the more sucralose goes into our ecology, with unknown results on nature.

joosters• 11 years ago

Aren't they used already, e.g. Diet Coke vs Coke Zero? I thought the difference between the two was in the sweeteners used. (No idea which, if any, are 'better')

SAI_Peregrinus• 11 years ago

Coke Zero uses aspartame.

To me aspartame tastes bitter and metallic, not sweet. Diet soda is undrinkable.

idunno246• 11 years ago

My understanding, when they made diet coke they couldn't replicate the flavor of coke that well, so diet coke is based on an entirely different formula. Coke zero is supposed to be coke without sugar.

kalleboo• 11 years ago

What sweetener is used in Diet Coke and Coke Zero varies by country. In some countries they use the same sweeteners, in others they differ.

chipsy• 11 years ago

Coke Zero has less caffeine - not zero, but the same amount as original Coke, while Diet Coke has almost 50% more.

icodestuff• 11 years ago

Diet Coke is New Coke with artificial sweetener instead of sugar. Coke Zero is Coca Cola Classic with artificial sweetener instead of sugar.

heimatau• 11 years ago

I'm not a fan of Pepsi but they seem to continuously make choices based on the market. Each step is a step to greater market-share.

achalkley• 11 years ago

So they're swapping it out for Splenda. Coke already has a Diet Coke with Splenda.

nacs• 11 years ago

Non-paywall link:

http://bit.ly/1DxLxwr

Unshortened-URL version:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQ-AsoAzAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fpepsico-to-replace-aspartame-with-sucralose-in-diet-pepsi-in-u-s-1429885941&ei=T1s8VYm0H8GpgwTyi4SoCA&usg=AFQjCNHZrziPYCuq9EVY7qBwvxo9yd_Qwg&bvm=bv.91665533,d.eXY

Same news from US News & World Report:

http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2015/04/24/diet...

imd23• 11 years ago

In Uruguay we have CocaCola with Stevia. Are we the only ones ? I think they are testing it. As a Diet Pepsi fan, I really liked it.

vanadium• 11 years ago

Coca-Cola Life is being sold in the U.S. here and there. Seems like a widespread test more than a full-scale roll-out at the moment. But yeah, it's here.

threeseed• 11 years ago

It's also being rolled out across Australia.

wodenokoto2• 11 years ago

Is that the green labelled one? We have it in Japan and I can't for the life of me figure out what its deal is. It taste quite bad.

mixmastamyk• 11 years ago

Sounded promising, but looks like it is still 50% sugar... way to clutch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Trufa• 11 years ago

Yeah, but it's with sugar too right?

bpicolo• 11 years ago

Oh man, I can't stand stevia. Leaves a long-lasting, sticky miserable aftertaste.

dlss2• 11 years ago

Stevia is actually ~four sweetening compounds, not one [1]... the after taste you're discussing comes from stevia extract with the four compounds in their natural ratios.

I believe Coke is starting to use stevia because biosynthesis is bringing the cost down, and allowing you select which of the four compounds you'd like[2]... although I haven't managed to taste yet it myself, I believe this solves the after taste problem.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steviol_glycoside [2] https://www.google.com/patents/EP2645847A1?cl=en -- can't find the news link where I read about the application of it though :(

ComputerGuru• 11 years ago

I'm exceptionally happy to hear this. My entire life, I hated Diet anything and never realized there were actually multiple zero-calorie sweetener options - I thought they were all different brand names of aspartame!

Then I discovered sucralose/splenda just last year, and was surprised that aside from a distinctive taste that can be identified and being twice as sweet as sugar, it's actually alright. Aspartame to me has this really bitter, tangy taste that I'm not able to ignore. The first swill of a cold aspartame-flavored drink on a hot day is fine for ~0.5 seconds until the flavor kicks in, and then I can't take another sip. Splenda/sucralose works just fine for me in my morning coffee, and if you mix granulated splenda with refined sugar in a 1:1 or 3:1 ratio, you can use it in baked sweets without it imparting too much of its distinctive flavor. (Personally, I find it's a decent low-calorie option for baking apple pies).

I'm also glad to hear they're switching to sucralose because - maybe this is silly - it makes me assume they have reason to believe it's safer.

(Diet Dr Pepper and Diet Canada Dry taste OK, FYI. Not identical, but close enough to the real thing.)

idibidiart• 11 years ago

They didn't ban it because of the taste! AFAIK, it causes inflammation in the brain.

aggie• 11 years ago

Can you point to any evidence?

"Aspartame is one of the most rigorously tested food ingredients ... has been deemed safe for human consumption by over 100 regulatory agencies in their respective countries."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame#Safety_and_health_ef...

Toast_• 11 years ago

You're mistaken.

ChuckMcM• 11 years ago

This one isn't true, it has been studied to death.

nwatson• 11 years ago

I happen to like the bitter aftertaste of Diet Coke. I prefer it over regular Coke, and I don't think I'm alone. To each their own.

ocfx• 11 years ago

No it's just you.

bdcravens• 11 years ago

Most diet beverages I've tried I hated, but ended up acquiring a taste for once I pretty much had to go diet (diabetes)

cpeterso• 11 years ago

There's a meme that Diet Coke "tastes like robot sweat". (I don't know the source, but the earliest online reference I found was an anime forum from 2003.) btw, I prefer Diet Coke, too. :)

hliyan• 11 years ago

Same here. Regular coke feels a bit too sweet for my taste.

Nexxxeh• 11 years ago

I apparently inherited several less-than-ideal traits from my mother. One of them is a noticeable reaction to aspartame.

If I consume significantly more than one chewing-gum's worth, there's a rapidly onset negative effect on my digestive system.

I don't know if my loathing of the taste of aspartame is psychosomatic cause, a helpful co-incidence, or a direct results of this.

I can't drink anything with aspartame in, it's revolting.

stevebot• 11 years ago

I'd much rather spend my money on Dry Soda. I buy alot of their Cucumber flavor myself and the stuff is delicious. It doesn't leave you feeling gross and has much less sugar, plus natural flavor extracts and uses cane sugar.

http://www.drysoda.com/

More expensive, but worth it.

Edit: also, I like the Stevia soda, but no-calorie sweeteners always leave an acrid taste in my mouth, and upset my stomach so I prefer Dry Soda or just plain seltzer water.

Mikeb85• 11 years ago

Much like the brewing scene, there's a great craft soft-drink scene. I don't drink many soft-drinks, but occasionally I do enjoy a good ginger beer, root beer or birch beer...

Hobotron1• 11 years ago

I gave up soda/beer and have become a La Croix junkie as of the last couple months.

http://www.lacroixwater.com/

joshcanhelp• 11 years ago

Love this stuff, great replacement for beer when you're cutting back. Coconut is my favorite.

jack_jennings• 11 years ago

Glad to see that these guys are still around. I used to work down the block from their headquarters in Seattle and stopped in quite often. I second that it's great stuff.

michaelchisari• 11 years ago

Cucumber pop has quickly become my favorite soft drink.

henpa• 11 years ago

In Brazil, Coke Zero uses sodium cyclamate, which I hear is illegal in the US. I avoid it at all costs.

atombender2• 11 years ago

Cyclamate is approved in at least 55 countries [1], including all of the EU, which approved in 1996 after studies could not determine any health risks. As far as I know, the study that prompted the U.S. to ban cyclamate has since been debunked [2].

[1] http://www.cyclamate.org/pdf/Cyclamate_worldwidestatus.pdf

[2] https://brooklynbrainery.com/blog/cyclamate-an-artificial-sw...

embro2• 11 years ago

As the article state clearly, this is to address consumers concerns and not facts based on science. Aspartame has been accused of so many things yet so few credible scientific paper has really blamed it for anything major.

wodenokoto2• 11 years ago

Well, it only takes one credible paper that blames it on something major to warrant serious concerns ...

embro2• 11 years ago

Agreed but there is no such thing in this case that surpass pure sugar.

OrdaGarb• 11 years ago

I have a slight fascination with sweeteners. About five years ago I imported a kilo of "Neotame" sweetener from a chem factory in Shanghai. It was claimed to be 10,000-12,000 times sweeter than sugar. It's a white powder and came in a metal can with a crimped lid and typically plain chemical labeling. Supposedly it is FDA-approved and a distant derivative of aspartame.

US customs held it for two weeks before sending it on to Colorado with no explanation. When received, the box was covered in "inspected" tape and they had put the canister in a clear plastic bag. The crimped lid looked like a rottweiler chewed it open and white powder was all over the inside of the bag. I unwisely opened this in my kitchen with no respirator as advised by the MSDS which I read after the fact (I am not a smart man).

Despite careful handling of the bag, it is so fine in composition that a small cloud of powder erupted in front of me and a hazy layer of the stuff settled over the kitchen. Eyes burning and some mild choking from inhaling the cloud, I instantly marveled at how unbelievably sweet the air tasted, and it was delicious. For several hours I could still taste it on my lips. The poor customs inspector will have had a lasting memory of that container I'm pretty sure.

Even after a thorough wipe-down, to this day I encounter items in my kitchen with visually imperceptible amounts of residue. After touching it and getting even microscopic quantities of the stuff on a utensil or cup, bowl, plate, whatever, it adds an intense element of sweetness to the food being prepared, sometimes to our delight. I still have more than 900g even after giving away multiple baggies to friends and family (with proper safety precautions).

We have been hooked on it since that first encounter. I keep a 100mL bottle of solution in the fridge which is used to fill smaller dropper bottles. I've prepared that 100mL bottle three times over five years, and that works out to about 12g of personal (somewhat heavy) usage for two people in that time. Probably nowhere near the LD50.

I carry a tiny 30mL dropper bottle of the solution for sweetening the nasty office coffee and anything else as appropriate. Four drops to a normal cup of coffee. We sweeten home-carbonated beverages, oatmeal, baked goods (it is heat stable), use it in marinades, and countless other applications.

I don't know if it's safe. The actual quantity used is so incredibly tiny that it seems irrelevant. I'd sweeten my coffee with polonium-210 if it could be done in Neotame-like quantities. Between this, a salt shaker loaded with MSG and a Darwin fish on my car, I'm doomed anyway.

dlss2• 11 years ago

Just wanted to say this comment made me wish there was a way to nominate comments for a "best of HN" section :)

Also: http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-Calorie-Pure-Newtame-powder-10-tim... ships from San Diego if anyone is looking to replicate OP.

Flenser• 11 years ago

Interestingly, from the Wikipedia page:

The patent covering the neotame molecule in the US, 5,480,668,[10] was originally set to expire 7 November 2012, but was extended 973 days by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. The patent is now set to expire 8 July 2015.

Give Animats comment below about how Sucralose is being manufactured more now that its patent has expired it will be interesting to see what happens once Neotame's patent expires later this year.

atombender2• 11 years ago

In Scandinavia, Diet Coke was actually made with sucralose for a couple of years, around 2006-2007. It had a "now with sucralose!" logo and it tasted a lot better than the aspartame version, and was in fact what made me able to switch from sucrose-based Coke to Diet. I was disappointed when they (for unknown reasons) switched back to aspartame.

jcoffland• 11 years ago

What about not drinking soda pop or loading your food up with sweeteners? Might not be popular but I actually like to taste stuff.

bitwize• 11 years ago

Of course they're yanking it because of "consumer concerns", i.e., Dr. Joe Mercola managed to convince people by the thousands that aspartame will make your testicles shrink and give you cancer and your kids autism. Unless you have phenylketonurea (in which case you can't eat much of anything anyway), aspartame is no more harmful than any other artificial sweetener.

Tastes fucking narsty though, so I'll be glad it's gone. But as it turns out, just about anything sweet that isn't fruit is bad for you in the long run, so we should be treating all carbonated sodas the way we treat cigarettes.

Animats• 11 years ago

Finally! The trouble with aspartame is that it breaks down under heat, or even just over time. Since the cola manufacturers stopped bottling locally and shipping through their own supply chain, cases of cola are more likely to spoil. Sucralose is heat-stable, so it can be used in hot drinks and in baking, and won't break down every time some delivery person leaves a case of soda sitting in the sun.

Until recently, production of sucralose was confined to one vendor, Tate and Lyle, and they had limited production capacity. The last patent expired in 2009, so now others can make it. But it's a difficult production process, and the competitors have had trouble ramping up capacity. Also, a few years ago, Tate and Lyle moved production from the US to Singapore, then moved it back to their plant in Alabama, still the largest sucralose plant in the world. The process is energy-intensive enough that high energy costs in Singapore were a serious problem.

The competitor in India gave up, but the competitor in China, JK Sucralose, seems to be doing well. Tate and Lyle says that supply now exceeds demand, complains about competition, and just raised sucralose prices 20%.[1] It's about $80 - $100/kg for food-grade sucralose. Diet Coke with Splenda has about 80mg of sucralose per 16oz bottle, so the cost is about one cent per serving.

[1] http://www.foodnavigator.com/Business/Tate-Lyle-raises-sucra...

dkraft• 11 years ago

fucking paywall

PepsiCo to Drop Aspartame from Diet Pepsi

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