Entrepreneurs anonymous

http://www.economist.com/news/business/21618816-instead-romanticising-entrepreneurs-people-should-understand-how-hard-their-lives-can?fsrc=scn/tw_ec/entrepreneurs_anonymous

by elmyraduff • 12 years ago

183 103 12 years ago

economist.com

porter2• 12 years ago

I used to encourage everyone I know to quit their job and start a company. Now, after having done just that, I no longer recommend this path. Not because I regret doing it. In fact, I think it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. But the road is, as the article says, about as romantic as "chewing glass."

Sure, there are wonderful days when things are working even better than I had planned. But then there are also the regular sleepless nights where I wake up puking, just from the stress. And it's been like this for years. It's a great path for the right person, but if you need someone to talk you into starting a business, then you're probably not cut out to be an entrepreneur. Owning a business isn't all it's chalked up to be. Turns out it ends up owning you. And yet, there's an amazing satisfaction that comes from entrepreneurship that you just can't get by working for someone else.

acgourley3• 12 years ago

When people ask me if they should start a company, I do a short interview with them to understand their motivation. It's usually dissatisfaction with their job combined with a grass-is-greener view of entrepreneurship. I believe in many circumstances people have a higher chance of finding happiness by pouring deliberate energy into finding a great job rather than starting their own company.

porter2• 12 years ago

I quit a good banking job after making it through the recession and several rounds of layoffs. My friends thought I was nuts. I had friends take me out to lunch and tell me most people were looking for jobs, not quitting them. But I didn't quit just because I was dissatisfied. At the heart of it, I just felt like a caged animal and I knew I had to break free.

throwaway81373• 12 years ago

I do a short interview with them to understand their motivation.

Could you please try me?

I have a good job as a software engineer at a successful start up. I am introvert and somewhat shy (although less then I used to be). I don't think many people could imagine me as a CEO. Nonetheless here are the reasons I want to start a company:

- I want to do something meaningful. I don't mean curing cancer, but having small, positive impact on other people though software. My current job provides that, but only in very small, indirect way.

- I need to have as much control as possible over what I work on, if my work seems pointless it's a huge demotivator for me.

- My father is an successful entrepreneur and I think that rolemodel influenced me.

- I dream of financial independence in my 30ies (working only when I want to). I know that this is not a good reason, but nonetheless part of my motivation.

EDIT: I rewrote some of this, because my I failed to express myself in my first attempt

paul9290• 12 years ago

Indeed this stuff is not easy.

Here are my personal highs and lows....

Pros & Highs... - My resume is nifty; neat/awesome jobs are easy to land - Been accredited for creating first of its kind idea - Alway receiving spontaneous applause when demoing due to concepts being novel/cool - Featured in many tech publications - Receiving seed money - Winning awards at tech events - Exciting things happen for weeks in a row

Lows... - Being pretty much broke & in debt - G/f of many years wants stability before kids - Doing this pretty much alone & at my age (late 30s) connecting w/local techies has been tough. Though I've tried. - Nothing going on for weeks in a row - Not able to keep cool job opportunities for more then a year. Those who hire me are cool with my start-ups then not - INSTABILITY!!!

Is it worth it, for me YES, as the highs I noted above can never be experienced at 9 to 5 desk job! Though I do long for stability as I want to have a family.

davemel37• 12 years ago

"then you're probably not cut out to be an entrepreneur."

I don't know why, but comments like this rub me the wrong way. Not that I don't agree that entrepreneurship is extremely difficult, it is!... just that I think people have a way of surviving and developing coping mechanisms for whatever life throws at them.

The fact that you have sleepness nights and puke from the stress tells me that you are not cut out for it.. yet, you are doing it...and without regrets.

Humans have a way of being resilliant.There is only one measure that determines if you are cut out for it or not...and that's if you try and it ends up ruining your life.

This idea that entrepreneurs tell others - that they are not cut out for doing a startup is really just a classic case of putting others down to prop yourself up.

If you want to do a startup, DO IT! Don't let others talk you out of it by convincing you that you aren't cut out for it. Short of a therapist encouraging you to avoid it, I would discount that advice as an insecure founder trying to make himself feel better about coping so poorly.

afarrell• 12 years ago

We should replace that phrase with "Then you've not developed the habits and mindset to be an entrepreneur."

People aren't born ready for anything but shitting and sucking nipples. They learn everything else.

vldx• 12 years ago

In this context, I find Charles Bukowski's poem [1] "Roll the Dice" resonating. I love to re-read it over again from time to time and remind myself that it's a long-term plan and a massive grind.

[1] Roll the Dice - https://vimeo.com/78472610

if you’re going to try, go all the way. otherwise, don’t even start.

if you’re going to try, go all the way. this could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs and maybe your mind.

go all the way. it could mean not eating for 3 or 4 days. it could mean freezing on a park bench. it could mean jail, it could mean derision, mockery, isolation. isolation is the gift, all the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it. and you’ll do it despite rejection and the worst odds and it will be better than anything else you can imagine.

if you’re going to try, go all the way. there is no other feeling like that. you will be alone with the gods and the nights will flame with fire.

do it, do it, do it. do it.

all the way all the way.

you will ride life straight to perfect laughter, its the only good fight there is.

drvdevd• 12 years ago

This is great. Thanks!

WWKong• 12 years ago

"And yet, there's an amazing satisfaction that comes from entrepreneurship that you just can't get by working for someone else.".

Are you sure about this? For everyone? How?

kordless2• 12 years ago

make time to exercise and learn to relax

This is the #1 priority for me now.

Kaihuang7242• 12 years ago

As a person hoping to start my own business within the next couple of months, this scares me quite a bit.

Honestly the entire notion of building my own company and not having the security of a stable paycheck is frightening. But even taking that into account, it doesn't diminish my desire to keep following this path regardless of the risk and warnings I've frequently heard.

Maybe this means I'm "over optimistic" bordering on "completely delusional" but I'll be damned if I don't try and make this work anyways.

kordless2• 12 years ago

The terms optimistic and delusional describe the two states of hypomania. Hypomania can be managed through good diet, exercise, meditation and other things that have absolutely zero to do with your business and everything to do with you. However, you are what makes your business successful at the end of the day. Manage it like you manage your business.

Sealy• 12 years ago

Would-be entrepreneurs need to have a more measured view of the risks involved before they start a business. But society also needs to have more respect for people who put their lives on the line to build something from nothing.

Anyone entering the startup space thinking their lives will be easier is going in with their 'eyes wide shut'. Having said that, if you manage your own personal expectations of being the next Mark Zuckerberg and are realistic, then you should manage.

Always make sure you have more money then you think you need to prove your concept, always estimate longer then you need and always listen to what your body says it needs.

Great article.

fapjacks• 12 years ago

Maybe it's my own history and previous life path, but starting a business with a best friend has been one of the mots natural and fun things I've ever done. There are obstacles, and I'm sure the road is rough going for a lot of entrepreneurs, but... This has been the best kind of work I feel that I will ever do, with respect to my own life goals. It takes a certain type, certainly.

That being said, and as a print subscriber to The Economist, I was a bit overwhelmed by this article, which reads like propaganda or cult literature. What I do is hard work, sure, but society doesn't owe me respect for all my hard work (and sympathy for my sacrifices) anymore than they owe farmers or factory workers. And definitely not as much as the guys working on the garbage trucks.

wsr• 12 years ago

As a fellow serial entrepreneur, it seems to me that between success, sleep, and living the life, you can only pick 2 out of the three.

Kaihuang7242• 12 years ago

I hope "living the life" means living how you want it and not really the traditional notion of living luxuriously. I personally want to start a business to have an impact and to build something other people want to use. That would be living the life for me, regardless if I'm sipping Pina Coladas on the beach by noon.

wuliwong7• 12 years ago

The implication that this gentlemen became an alcoholic because he quit his corporate job and became an entrepreneur seems pretty far fetched. The guy was probably either already an alcoholic or didn't actually become one. There's a huge difference between drinking to cope with stress and drinking because you are an alcoholic. The latter needs no stress to cause him/her to drink.

richardjordan• 12 years ago

I don't think you're correct here.

The stresses of being an entrepreneur take a tremendous toll and given the risk-taking nature of the condition (entrepreneurialism) I absolutely see those stresses lead to dangerous and addictive behaviors in those who follow an entrepreneurial path - whether it's drugs, drink, sex or gambling I have seen all behaviors triggered in individuals.

The absolutism of your position on what does/does not constitute an alcoholic and what triggers the behavior is misplaced.

wickedOne• 12 years ago

i think what he's trying to say is that becoming an alcoholic over a stupid decision and the resulting stress is a bit far fetched…

i second that; you might increase the amount you're drinking on a dailly basis for a bit of relief, but that has absolutely nothing to do with being an alcoholic.

wuliwong7• 12 years ago

There is literally some HN troll following my comments across the site and down-voting them all. LOL. Get a life.

jboggan• 12 years ago

This is a welcome article to read this week. I'm in the process of winding down my abortive startup and fielding a lot of questions from confused friends who think I'm just months away from giving them a ride on my yacht. The reality is much, much different. I look forward to having a fulltime job again and having time for music.

idlewords4• 12 years ago

Focusing on the hardships of entrepreneurship is just a different way of romanticizing it.

crixlet• 12 years ago

bingo. absolutely agree

waihtis• 12 years ago

some of us just like chewing glass.

wuliwong7• 12 years ago

Absolutely. I felt the part about the guy becoming an alcoholic because he became an entrepreneur to be really over-the-top.

paintnp• 12 years ago

My standard advice to folks with corporate jobs who want to venture out on their own is this- hire a couple of guys to vet out your idea. Get the product market fit right, get the MVP done and have someone start talking to potential customers while you are still making a salary. If it is difficult to set aside $5K-$8K per month for this while you are working, it'll be significantly harder once you are not bringing in anything. One of the biggest lessons for me when I did my own start up was that no one else is on the same timeline as you are. They go on their long holidays while you are refreshing gmail every minute to see whether they replied to your email. All the while, you are trying to survive on whatever you have in your diminishing bank account. Age also is a definite factor. If you are in your early twenties and used to surviving on $1500 of research assistantship from university, it is much easier to take random bets. You'll only learn from them. Once you are beyond a certain stage in your life, the equation totally changes.

tchock23• 12 years ago

I used to think this was bad advice (hiring out to others to vet your idea) and would actively advise startups against it, but the more I work with entrepreneurs the more I'm coming around to the view that this is a good route to take for someone who is working full-time and considering jumping off to do their startup.

By hiring out to vet the idea it reduces the confirmation bias that entrepreneurs face when researching their own ideas. As you noted, it forces an upfront financial commitment on the part of the entrepreneur, helping them realize what it will take to properly fund a startup at scale. It's also a time saver - trying to talk to potential customers (particularly for B2B startups) while holding down a full-time job is very difficult.

Of course, the entrepreneur should still be involved to the greatest extent possible, otherwise any early learning from the customer conversations, MVPs, etc. is lost...

thegenius3• 12 years ago

The hardest thing about entrepreneurial success for me personally is the envy it has generated. I wasn't prepared for it.

When I first started seeing results in my business, I quit my job and was able to spend a lot of time doing whatever I wanted. My wife would post pictures of us constantly going on day trips and vacations. It pissed some important people in my life off, and they became very passive aggressive towards me.

It's easy for people who haven't experienced it to assume it's easy to ignore, but when your family members start off by criticizing you, then doubting you, then watching you succeed beyond what they could have imagined, they can end up feeling extremely violated.

I spent the first two years feeling sorry for myself that so and so wasn't talking to me. Now, I've moved on and am stronger than ever.

beachstartup3• 12 years ago

crabs in a bucket.

thegenius3• 12 years ago

It wasn't so simple for me to tell myself that and feel better as I wish it were.

For example, one of the people who won't speak to me anymore is a family member who was my biggest hero growing up and the reason why I got into computer programming. I was very angry that he stopped talking to me, and he gave me all sorts of excuses as to why, but his criticisms told the truth of what was really bothering him.

Over time, what I've had to accept is that he has limitations, and he's not the hero I had made him out to be. It's takes time coming to terms with reality that way, especially when you thought so highly of the person to begin with.

ggreer2• 12 years ago

I'm sorry some of your relationships suffered due to your success. I doubt I've been as successful as you, but some people have reacted similarly in my life. I think it can help to view some forms of envy as a mental illness.[1] It's not your fault they're behaving that way, so don't take it personally. If these people are important to you, keep trying to reach out. They might come around eventually.

1. It's important to separate good and bad forms of envy. Bad envy involves wishing misfortune upon someone. Good envy doesn't. Many people envy Elon Musk, but don't wish him any ill and want him to succeed.

tonyedgecombe• 12 years ago

Is there a good form of envy?

thegenius3• 12 years ago

I want to comment on this. While many people do envy Elon Musk, you're talking about the ones who admire him, and there is a big difference as you mention before that.

I don't know why I'm wired the way I am, but I'm just not susceptible to envy--at all. However, I hardly think that most people successful or otherwise are like me. In fact, I'd say a good bit of successful people are so because of their envy.

Envy is the worst of the 7 deadly sins. It's like Charlie Munger says, "It's the only deadly sin you're not going to have any fun with."

pyre• 12 years ago

they can end up feeling extremely violated

That is their own personal issue if being proven wrong makes someone feel 'violated'.

ChuckMcM• 12 years ago

This is also one of the weird things about 'getting rich' (or a rapid change in net worth to the positive). A friend of mine who actually made it out of the dot com era with lots of residual wealth, was retelling a situation where a co-worker asked what he had done over the long weekend; What he had actually done was fly down to the Carribean with his girlfriend and spent the weekend on a sailboat (he lived in Boston). He related that he could say what he had done, but then his co-worker is pissed off because he thinks he his bragging, he can not say anything and get them pissed off about being anti-social, or he can lie about what he did, which when it gets out that it was a lie he gets in trouble too.

His take on it was he wasn't going to not do these things because it caused problems, he just wouldn't socialize. When you have kids and your friends don't, they don't want to hear about your kids and yet they are consuming your life. When your an entrepreneur and your friends aren't they don't want to hear about your business and yet your business is all you spend your time on.

iamshs2• 12 years ago

I am also on the verge of starting a company, and it makes me afraid. More so, upon reading this thread. Looks like there are lot of entrepreneurs in this thread, so some advice maybe good for me. I have identified a pain point in a present system at my company, and since then got to know that this is a industry wide problem. My employer would not solve this issue, and would not give me permission to build it on my own time, as one of my colleague suggested the same six months back and they were not enthusiastic and would not release him from the specific clause in the job's terms and conditions. One of my Managers, who left the company, and is still on good terms with me proposed the idea to his company and the company wants to see the initial prototype. I have none at this point, so will need to develop it.

The problem is, I cannot forego my job income because of upcoming personal situation. Potential customer will not give me lump sum money, and wants to hire me as a consultant, but then I would not be able to sell it to other customers. If I build the product in my spare time, my employer owns it as it is directly in company's field of operation. Angel networking people I have talked to have also asked for a working prototype, but I have none and for building one a good developer will be needed.

So can somebody please give some suggestions on this? Or if someone from Edmonton or Alberta is reading this please get in touch with me @ msedm@outlook.com .

fractallyte• 12 years ago

Actually, this sounds like a non-problem.

The most crucial first step is to change your frame of mind: you're not bound to any employer, and your personal time is entirely your own.

Develop a prototype in your own time, get lots of feedback to improve it, and suddenly all sorts of avenues and options will be open to you.

You could license it back to your company (for a price); if that's rejected, go somewhere else. It certainly sounds as though there's a gap in the market, so the obvious thing to do would be to fill it - ASAP.

Think of it this way: you're working your way toward financial freedom. Why allow anyone to put obstacles in your way?

tim3333• 12 years ago

I think iamshs was saying " If I build the product in my spare time, my employer owns it as it is directly in company's field of operation"

Maybe iamshs could switch to another job, perhaps something a bit more part time without the non competes and build the thing on the side then?

rdlecler13• 12 years ago

We suffer from strong survivor bias. Each day CrunchBase sends me a list of companies, most that I've never heard of and many that I can't understand how they're being backed, and it reinforces the idea that you can go out and build a great product and VCs will rain money down on you on your path to success. However these are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Some advice from someone in the trenches.

First, assume that you will never raise a dollar of outside Angel or VC money. Smart, great board, great product, it won't matter. An investor's null hypothesis is that you will fail and it is incredibly difficult to convince them otherwise. If you're the CEO and you don't have Brad Pitt like charisma and you're not a sociopath then it will be very very hard to raise capital.

Second, be prepared for the dreads. The worst part about it is that once these wounds are opened they will be there for life. You're going to wake up at 4:00 and won't be able to sleep because your mind is churning, trying to find some solution to your problem. This usually boils down to insipid growth rates and lack of capital to properly execute.

Third, there will always be 100 things to do and you get to pick 3. What you have will be imperfect. You won't have the metrics you need, and you'll be apologizing for everyhing. It also makes it that much harder to get others to see your vision.

Fourth, the longer it takes you to raise capital the more your team will doubt your competence.

Fifth, you will be rejected every day. VCs, customers, partners, potential employees. This takes a massive psychological toll even as you're get back up to put on that brave face. Unless you are a sociopath it is bound to chip away at your confidence and it may be that split second of doubt that hurts you in your next meeting.

throwitzawayz• 12 years ago

Entrepreneurship is hard and I know it from experience, but have you ever taken care of someone 24 hours a day? An alzheimers patient or a developmentally disabled child?

My dad has AD and I'm his primary caregiver and compared to caregiving, entrepreneurship with all its pain is literally a fucking joy. Happiest part of my day even when making $0. I've failed at entprenreurship badly for a 2+ years but psychologically I have none of the pain associated with it because I know how much harder life can be.

Don't get me wrong, if I had the chance I would walk away from both but once you've experienced the toll of careigvng, you quit complaining about how hard entrepreneurship is.

I sometimes think that all wannabe entrepreneurs should work as a fulltime caregiver at an old age home or childrens ward at a hospital for 2 weeks. It would lessen the "pain" of entrepreneurship 10 fold.

That would reframe a lot of the pain away and help you focus on what needs to be done to market/sell a product and build it.

The truth is that the "pain" is 100% psychological and most children bought up in middle class and above families have never experienced what it means to have nothing.

Entrepreneurs who have grown up poor don't even understand what I'm talking about when I try to explain this concept.

So volunteer in the peace corps and it'll take away 100% of the pain of entrepreneurship and help you focus on executing.

honzzz• 12 years ago

I used to work as a care assistant. I basically agree with the parent but while reading about massive psychological toll of being rejected I could not help but think "try to observe a half-conscious guy in terminal stadium of cancer moan and scream from pain for hours before he finally dies" - I was working night shifts and after THAT I could not believe that sun was still rising.

And working as a minimum wage 'robo-slave' in a pen factory for one week when I was at high school made me realize that this kind of work is no cake either.

Entrepreneurship, however hard, is still one of the easiest methods how to make a living.

icebraining2• 12 years ago

Frankly, your post sounds like a piece of dialog from the Four Yorkshiremen sketch.

The point, from my interpretation, is not that entrepreneurship is mind-numbingly painful but that it is deceitfully painful, while care-giving for an Alzheimer's patient is expected to be painful.

7Figures2Commas3• 12 years ago

So basically you can't be successful as an entrepreneur unless you're a sociopath? That's a disappointingly cynical view.

Some advice from someone who has also been in the trenches:

First, you don't need to waste time thinking or complaining about angels and VCs when you start a business you can fund yourself.

Second, if you're expecting growth to come easily and quickly, and you don't have the capital necessary to execute a realistic plan in a realistic amount of time, you're setting yourself up for unnecessary disappointment before you even begin.

Third, if you can't identify the primary drivers of your success and truly believe that you have 100 things to do, you don't have a good understanding of your business.

Fourth, fundraising won't impact your team when you don't need to raise capital.

Fifth, rejection, while hard, is a part of life. Even the most successful salespeople hear "no" far more often than they hear "yes." If you have unrealistic expectations about this and can't maintain a positive attitude unless you close the majority of the people you sell to, you might want to reconsider entrepreneurship.

rdlecler13• 12 years ago

I forgot to add, you're always going to run into smug people who haven't walked in your shoes.

idlewords4• 12 years ago

If you're awake at 4 AM because of anxiety about growth rate and lack of capital, make some hot cocoa and then thank God you don't have real problems.

I'm not saying this to be snide. Those problems feel real and scary enough. But as the other replies to this comment demonstrate, there is a vast spectrum of human misery that we live on the far end of.

Anything you can do to remain mindful of that will have the side effect of letting you sleep like a baby, even the night before the big investor meeting.

decentrality• 12 years ago

The mind-churn is not anxiety always, but consciousness of the sheer gravity of what you are doing.

The "vast spectrum of human misery" exists unless or until someone's mind-churn waking them up at night results in viable solutions and real growth.

It's not one or the other, both are linked situations. There is a seriousness about all the "preoccupation" ... it's even natural and organic in the sense that it is how one hand washes the other in the grand scheme of it all.

feedjoelpie• 12 years ago

I don't disagree, but when you're growing and responsible for the economic livelihoods of several households, it's hard to write your anxieties off as first world. Because it's not really about you anymore, and a "whatever, I'll be fine in the end" attitude just feels, selfish? Irresponsible? I think a great many of us would sleep just fine if we only bore responsibility for ourselves. I'm not arguing that anyone should be destroying themselves over their startup, just that writing all the anxieties off as first world problems just isn't a reasonable ask for founders who care deeply about their teams.

jcavin• 12 years ago

I really like the part of the article that talks about taking breaks. Entrepreneurs = work hard. I am a big believer in working on nights when others are having a good time, but you got to take care of yourself. Burning out only slows you down ultimately.

I like to surround myself with family and activities I love to recharge my battery. Often when I come back to working on my project the creative ideas come flowing out.

maaku6• 12 years ago

Entrepreneurs = work hard

Not if you're picking your battles, planning ahead, and executing right.

[I assume you mean "work late". There's nothing wrong with working hard, 9-5, 5 days a week.]

The entrepreneur is the responsible one that will work hard and work late when he has to. The trick is never having to.

thallukrish• 12 years ago

It is a game of survival. You have to try several tricks to keep yourself afloat until you reach what you call as success. Being lean (in my case I am a single founder), fit physically and mentally (I did not do this so aggressively when I was employed:-), keeping track of your expenses (some sort of cash flow), going for little money once in a while in a consulting mode, having sufficient capital to not disturb your family all and more are needed till you think you have reached the point where you have exhausted all options - research, market, positioning, customer demos , partnering and so on.

thewarrior• 12 years ago

The article cites Aaron Levie as an example.

Someone in his 20s who has already raised hundreds of millions of dollars and is already a millionaire.

Hardly the example of the struggling entrepreneur the article is warning us about.

jasonkester• 12 years ago

It doesn't have to be that way. It certainly wasn't for me.

The cool thing about running your own business is that you can run it any way you like. Yes, you can work 120 hour weeks, lose your wife, and have your heart attack at 45. But you can also work one 8 hour day per week, with a quick 10 minute email spin on the other weekdays, and spend the rest of your time enjoying your life.

Both of those routes will get your product shipped, fit it to the market, and ramp you up to a full time living if you do it right.

The idea that you have to work yourself into the ground is just a story they tell people to scare them off. The reality is that entrepreneurship isn't particularly hard, particularly stressful, or particularly scary. Unless you want it to be.

tim3333• 12 years ago

Having had a look at your website I have to say the whole going off the beach in Asia and doing some coding stuff seems quite a good idea.

ThePhysicist• 12 years ago

As an entrepreneur I agree that our job is probably more demanding and stressful than your usual 9-to-5 in a big corporation, but I would never say that we have a hard life. Here's why:

- We have chosen this path ourselves, nobody forced us to run our own business and play the startup game.

- We are able to do something we love all day and possibly even make a lot of money doing so.

- We can decide ourselves how much we actually work and how we organize our life (even if most people pretend they can't).

- If our business fails, we can (mostly) just go back working in a high-paying job in industry.

That's not exactly what I call a hard life. If you think it is, you might wanna take a look outside your IT-/Silicon-Valley bubble, where many people get up every day at 5 am, work 12 hours in a job they don't like but can't quit because they need the money and still are barely able to make ends meet. To them, most of our "problems" would be luxuries to have.

simonswords82• 12 years ago

The Economist is one of my favourite magazines. Their rhetoric never waffles or glosses over issues. A good example from this article:

"Management literature is full of guff about how entrepreneurs should embrace failure as a “learning experience”. But being punched in the face is also a learning experience."

wuliwong7• 12 years ago

I actually did some fighting and getting punched in the face really is the best learning experience when the goal is to learn how to protect yourself. If we didn't throw real punches than we would never learn how to handle real punches. And sometimes you got hit...in the face.

taksintik• 12 years ago

tl:dr - balance your mind and body.

Entrepreneurs anonymous

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