Valve joins the Linux Foundation

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/12/04/valve-joins-linux-foundation-prepares-linux-powered-steam-os-steam-machines/

by kwestro • 13 years ago

593 290 13 years ago

The one thing that has forced me keep Windows on my PC is the fact that most games require it. Hearing that such a large player in the gaming industry wants to move to Linux is really fantastic news.

daddykotex• 13 years ago

I stopped playing games when I started using Linux. I've been part of the Steam Beta on Linux and things are going really fast. This is great news.

gagege2• 13 years ago

I had to switch to mostly indie games with I switched to Linux, which is great, there are a ton of awesome indie games. There are some mainstream Windows titles that I can get to run in Steam via Wine, but it's a pain. I really hope Valve can get the big mainstream studios on board.

jebblue13• 13 years ago

Actually I discovered great Indie games like Urban Terror and Minecraft among many others.

easy_rider3• 13 years ago

The only thing that bugs me is that driver support is lagging behind so bad on Linux. I remember when Linus said something about why you should buy ATI for linux gaming. Because they have open source drivers.. In the end I returned my ATI card.

My older Turion x64/hd3650 something laptop is still struggling with whatever flavor Linux. Still a work in progresss to get my Samsung 40" full hd TV through HDMI detected as something other than a 7" tablet screen..hmm.

codfrantic• 13 years ago

Try again, I'm using my HP Minilaptop with AMD components on (X)ubuntu or Linux Mint, 32 inch samsung is detected better in Linux then it is in Windows. (automatically runs it Full HD compared to Windows' 1366x768 )

jeletonskelly• 13 years ago

I'd say that there have been some major improvements to driver support in the last year. There are two drivers for ATI gpu's out there, the open source driver and the catalyst driver that comes from ATI. The open source driver has been stable for quite some time, but the performance was lacking. The Catalyst drivers have recently been shown a little love that they desperately needed, and there was a kernel patch sometime around v3.8 that fixed a problem with Radeon and KMS conflicts.

keypusher2• 13 years ago

As much as Linus might not like it, the nVidia closed source drivers are the only Linux display drivers that are production ready for high performance 3D gaming.

aclevernickname15• 13 years ago

There have been rather fast Open drivers for the HD3650 for at least two years now. I'm curious as to what distribution you're using that would exhibit these sorts of problems in 2013.

azernik• 13 years ago

This seems to be where Valve is really trying to push - I've seen quite a few quotes from Newell saying their first step is to use their massive leverage to get graphics cards makers to improve their Linux drivers.

metastew• 13 years ago

What does this mean for Nvidia and AMD?

venomsnake7• 13 years ago

Nothing. The people that buy 250 watt, 300mm^2 GPUs to play games will continue to buy them.

simplemath• 13 years ago

Battlefield dabbler - my 7970 confirms anecdotally.

marcosdumay2• 13 years ago

Yep, they'll buy from one of them. How will they choose?

I think free drivers will become important. But maybe I'm wrong, and they'll just get the one that consume more watts.

zxcdw• 13 years ago

They probably have more pressure to invest in Linux driver development.

egeozcan• 13 years ago

I guess, as long as this is kept as an open platform, even in the case that they can't get in the official build, they could still create alternative steam-compatible builds.

casca• 13 years ago

It will be interesting to see whether Valve can encourage the move to Linux gaming. Their biggest asset at this time is the distribution model of Steam, but that's not sufficient to get the big publishers to develop for OSX, never mind Linux.

Edit: Valve's game list: http://www.valvesoftware.com/games/

terabytest• 13 years ago

OS X is not a good platform for gaming. It has a significantly smaller user base of which only an even more significantly smaller are gamers. Playing on a MacBook (or at least on my MacBook) is impossible, and I wouldn't buy an iMac for gaming.

On the other hand, you can put Linux on anything (for free!), from your mom's 2002 pc to the latest generation hot stuff. This means there is indeed a potential, and somebody just has to set the foundation.

SkyMarshal4• 13 years ago

Why is playing on a MacBook impossible? (not a Mac user, serious question)

Djehngo• 13 years ago

For what it's worth my macbookpro runs Dota2 without complaint.

wmoxam• 13 years ago

I regularly play Dota2 on my MacBook Air. Works well enough.

dimillian4• 13 years ago

You'll be amazed on how it has changed. First, latest Macbook are kinda powerful on the GPU side, even with the integrated one, the Intel HD 5000 or Iris can run modern game at low/med settings. While it's shit for gamers who cares about graphics and performances, for any casual gamers it's sufficient. My Macbook is my work machine but also my gaming machine.

The other things is about Wine, they're working on accelerating the Direct3D driver, and OMG, it's soooo fast now. I'm running Skyrim on a custom Wine engine (1.7.1 with a patch from the D3D boost branch), on hight/ultra settings on my Macbook Retina, It's running at 80% of the Windows performance. And it's only the beginning, it's far from done. I also have it running on a friend Macbook Air, it run at medium setting at a solid 30 FPS.

My point is that you can actually plays with Macbook nowadays.

Edit: The PR from codeweavers is relevant (Especially the part about the Command Stream). http://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/20131112/

stinkytaco7• 13 years ago

You seem to be contradicting yourself. Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. Playing on a Macbook is impossible (presumably for performance reasons?), but you talk about putting Linux on a 2002 PC for gaming. And Linux may or may not run on the latest generation hot stuff, depending on how much time you want to spend to get your newest graphics card working.

I'm not sure what potential you are talking about. If gaming doesn't work on OS X, I can't see it working on Linux.

As an aside, Linux gaming would seem to me to suffer the same fate as the Android market times about a billion. Too many possible variations and massive platform fragmentation. It sounds like a development nightmare.

lsdafjklsd• 13 years ago

I've been playing Dota 2 / Hereoes of Newerth on my 13in mac air for years just fine. My only gripe is the mouse acceleration on OS X... the mouse feels horrible and you have to get third party software to make it only slightly better.

girvo3• 13 years ago

I game on my iMac. Currently just played through BioShock Infinite, and play StarCraft 2 daily, and really should get back to Guild Wars 2 at some point... but yeah, I'm considered odd by my friends for doing so.

benihana• 13 years ago

In my opinion, this will only take off if installing everything is easier than installing Windows + Steam + drivers. If Valve can give you an image to download that has the OS, the drivers, Steam, Firefox, and all the basic codecs you need to use a computer for gaming and common things like browsing the web, reading email, watching video and listening to music, this has a chance.

trumbitta2• 13 years ago

I play The Witcher 2, Skyrim and so on with my rMBP on the Windows 7 partition, while I played Batman Arkham City on the OSX one.

ZeroGravitas• 13 years ago

You shouldn't think of OS X and Linux as two completely separate platforms in this regard, since they share a lot of relevant tech.

I would imagine the work put in to making OS X ports translates well to Linux and vice versa and it's the combined sales that people will consider when deciding whether to port (or what base technologies to build on for brand new projects).

As SteamOS takes off there's also the possibility of using Bootcamp to switch your Mac into a SteamOS machine if that gives you access to better GPU drivers (I believe currently some people do this for windows for the same reason) but of course you can play (mostly) the same Steam games library from either OS.

edit: a quick glance at Valve's site suggests 598 games for Mac, 253 for Linux and of those only 9 weren't also available for the Mac (they're all available for Windows).

malandrew• 13 years ago

On that note are there any changes or improvements on the horizon that would let you fast user switch between two or more booted and running operating systems. It'd be great in the future if you could allocate a small chunk of your RAM to keeping the background machine in a chunk of RSm so it switches faster than you can switch between users on the same OS. E.g. Of 16GB of RAM, 12GBis allocated to the foreground OS and 4GB to the background. Then when you switch you get a near instantaneous switch and the 8GB difference is allocated to the now current foreground system as necessary.

keeperofdakeys• 13 years ago

While both may be Posix systems, the GUI, mouse and audio apis are much different - so there is still a lot of work you'd need to do. Since both use opengl though, you get rid of half the trouble by porting.

It's also important to remember that many game makers don't make their own engine, and so the engine must support OSX/linux (most classic linux ports have used the unreal engine, or source engine). Unity is quite good in this regard, you can hit a button to export your project to all three different platforms.

k3n• 13 years ago

Their biggest asset at this time is the distribution model of Steam

IMO the Steam Machines will offer a very supportive backing as well.

grahamburger• 13 years ago

They also have SteamBox. I think big developers will target SteamOS.

kayoone• 13 years ago

While this is great, its a bit sad that Valve is mostly doing all of this now, because they fear losing their dominance on windows to the native Store in Win 8.x

In the end its a win-win for everyone if it works out, just their motives are questionable.

Strom• 13 years ago

It won't be a win for Microsoft if this transition takes off. Also, of course profits and control are the biggest motivations here, not some inherent wish for linux to succeed.

mercurial• 13 years ago

No, it's clearly a business decision. But I wonder how long it has been in the works, considering that every few months, you used to get these "Steam on Linux" "news" which never translated into anything solid until Steam for Linux eventually came out.

In other news, it looks like the XCom remake will soon be in beta on Linux: http://steamdb.info/sub/35236/

Apart from the fact that I'd like to play it, it's interesting because Linux Steam has a dearth of AAA title (although it does have good indie games like Unity of Command).

venomsnake7• 13 years ago

Nothing is questionable - GabeN wants the soft power to rule gaming. So in the times of walled/wallish gardens his goal is to prevent them of locking in the audience and gaining the hard power.

yukkurishite• 13 years ago

Agreed, I'm get the idea Valve doesn't actually care much about linux. For example, in their presentation highlighting some stuff about porting games from win to linux, every screenshot was made in windows

TazeTSchnitzel• 13 years ago

Well, their development workflow is likely highly Windows-based.

salient3• 13 years ago

He's trying to protect his business from a hostile actor - Microsoft. They are attacking others like Valve by radically changing the rules for what goes on Windows, and creating their own gateway.

So what's "questionable" about that? The move seems pretty clear cut to me - it's a defensive move against Microsoft's obvious trend for a closed garden of apps and games.

nly3• 13 years ago

He's trying to protect his business from a hostile actor - Microsoft.

And Microsoft are just responding to Android and iOS app stores.

nly3• 13 years ago

Sometimes people just need a bit of a kick up the arse to see the light.

Nikker• 13 years ago

If I to play some fantasy football here I might go as far as to say the Win8.x Stores might actually be the reason Valve is ditching it. Microsoft could be aiming for a cut of each game sale a la App Store and try tactics to make it difficult for them to run a parallel store on their platform. When you have a business model like Steam running on essentially the same Win8 store the margins get razor thin.

Of course I don't know for sure but for Valve to back out of Windows the way they did it's definitely a strong possibility. Don't forget "embrace,extend,extinguish".

modeless• 13 years ago

We do know for sure. Gabe has explicitly stated that the Win8 store with its closed ecosystem model is the reason they hate Win8 and are making SteamOS.

Skoofoo• 13 years ago

Before Windows 8, Valve seemingly couldn't care less about Linux! It bothers me how Valve tries to make itself out to be Linux's best friend nowadays. They also talk about open source a lot despite them ever releasing only proprietary software.

aclevernickname15• 13 years ago

Seemingly.

They've only been running all their servers on Linux PC's for upwards of 10 years now.

xanderstrike3• 13 years ago

Leaks from years ago show that the Steam client and Source have both had Linux versions in development since around the time of the Mac beta in 2010 (two years before Windows 8) [0]. Also they've supported Linux servers forever, so you can hardly say they couldn't care less. Also also, haven't they pushed some stuff upstream and spurred interest and development in open source drivers? That's more than many companies that publish proprietary software on Linux.

Windows 8 may have pushed them over the line, and they may only be moving to Linux in order to make more money. Is that really a problem though? I think it's the breakthrough into the mainstream that Linux has been waiting for for decades.

[0] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_ste...

JungleGymSam• 13 years ago

So because the ice cream truck was late to reach your house, and used to only sell frozen yogurt, you don't want ice cream anymore?

hatchoo• 13 years ago

If they have their own agenda, why should it matter? If this benefits them and Linux, why would this development be bad?

erifneerg2• 13 years ago

I saw this reasoning flying around a lot when Valve started working on linux. I saw the move from linux initially as a natural extension of developing for the Mac OS. GabeN was quoted saying something on the lines of how the games were running much more stable on OSX then windows and said the problem they had wasn't related to there code.

Then I heard how performance issues. Using games performed (slightly?) better on Linux then on Windows. There was talk about mouse issues on Windows 8 and how some bench marks could be faked.

All this sounded to me was Valve wanted a better gaming environment.

Side note, I don't know how many people would be switching to Windows' store and gaming social features over Steam.

kkangaroo• 13 years ago

http://www.neowin.net/news/valve-co-founder-windows-8-is-a-c...

Steam is a basically a middleman for games taking 30% cut of revenue. Of course they're and should be terrified of how Apple eliminated middlemen with the App store and the 30% cut of all sales inside the app. There are things like Xfire for the social gaming features.

sliverstorm3• 13 years ago

Well, their motives aren't sinister, which is all you can really want or hope for. In a capitalistic market, vanishingly few players will switch to Linux out of altruism.

Which is perfectly fine, in my opinion. Everything is more predictable when each player acts in their own best interests. Then it's just a matter of understanding their incentives.

marcosdumay2• 13 years ago

Yet, players could have some amount of foresight, and not wait untill MS actualy pushes a knife into their hearth (lucky Valve this one was dull) before trying to defend themselves.

jebblue13• 13 years ago

> Well, their motives aren't sinister, which is all you can really want or hope for. In a capitalistic market, vanishingly few players will switch to Linux out of altruism.

There was a time when no one thought gamers would switch from DOS to Windows.

cabbeer3• 13 years ago

Right now the only thing keeping me from running linux full time is the Adobe Master Collection (PS AI LR ID AE...)

SkyMarshal4• 13 years ago

Will it run in a Windows VM on Linux?

shawabawa3• 13 years ago

photoshop is slow enough natively. Running in a VM might be good enough if you use it occasionally, but for people who use it daily I doubt it.

kazagistar• 13 years ago

Probably, but these applications can often use every ounce of performance they can get, including direct graphics card access.

rhblake• 13 years ago

I used Photoshop CS6 in a Windows 7 VirtualBox VM, often for editing large RAW pictures. Slower than native, of course, but it was totally OK for occasional photo post-processing. Perfectly fine for typical web design work. This was on a 2011 Thinkpad X220 (i7, 16 GB RAM, no SSD).

Lightroom felt too sluggish and I didn't even bother trying Premiere, but at least having Photoshop available kept rebooting to Windows to a minimum.

aclevernickname15• 13 years ago

Adobe's Creative Suite runs great in KVM (with the Spice backend). Runs faster than Virtualbox or VMWare Player, even over remote session.

cabbeer3• 13 years ago

It will, but for me the latency ruins the experience.

michaelgrafl• 13 years ago

I use Linux mostly but log into OS X or Windows for those. I could probably run them in a virtual machine though.

The one thing that keeps me from using Linux exclusively are pieces of software that I use to make music but are only available on Windows (e.g. Guitar Amp Plugins by LePou or various processors by Variety Of Sound). I don't see those coming to Linux anytime soon, sadly.

If Reaper would come out in a native version for Linux and someone invented a way to use Windows VST plugins in it without a performance hit, I might dare switching.

aclevernickname15• 13 years ago

I suspect you would get great enjoyment out of KXStudio [1]. built-in support for Windows VST plugins (via Carla/Vestige). Wine with the WineASIO setup working means that FL Studio (and similar) works flawlessly under JACK. Also, there is nothing in the windows world that competes with JACK and Claudia.

You might also want to check out the Linux Musicians forum [2]. Most of your itches are probably already scratched by someone.

[1] http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net

[2] http://www.linuxmusicians.com/

Trufa• 13 years ago

Indeed, it's seriously lacking a competitor in that sense.

I would say that GIMP is in top 5 of worst software ever made, what made me think of that is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_music_considered_the_wo...

I quote:

Paradoxically, a piece of music needs to have been noticeable, popular or memorable to be deemed the "worst ever." A piece that was unpopular and quickly forgotten is unlikely to top all-time public polls a few years after it was released. A piece usually needs to have had a high profile at the time of its release, such as an unexpected hit that was highly disliked outside of its fanbase.

I think Gimp is enough of both, to call it that.

Also, OP, I've heard that the CS works quite well (the original, not the pirated) in wine, I haven't tried it myself but maybe it's worth the shot.

Note: I don't like to criticize FOSS, since I'm sure there are intentions are always good, but it's just that it's so bad :(

skriticos2• 13 years ago

I would hardly call it worst. It does not have the most intuitive UX, but once you get used to it it's quite nice and gets the job done. And it's open source (royalty free). I like it.

I'd call it PS-incompatible. Would be nice to see a study on two control groups who each either start learning PS or GIMP for a few weeks and see how they get common tasks accomplished and how they feel about their control group software.

I mostly see PS damaged people with bold statements of it's superiority and the rubishness of GIMP. I never seen anyone getting good with GIMP first and then ditching it for PS.

Can any of you give some personal anecdotes?

ewzimm• 13 years ago

From what I understand, GIMP has only 1 full-time and 1 part-time lead developer, and yet it competes with the flagship product of a company that makes $4.4 billion per year.

girvo3• 13 years ago

Some of it runs okay under Wine, some not. A shame, I wish a startup would try and tackle the Adobe Collection at some point, but I guess the capital requirements and network effects are too great :(

cabbeer3• 13 years ago

Here's come context on what they would be up against: http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/13/3959868/photoshop-is-a-cit...

philliphaydon2• 13 years ago

Personally I think the movement to Linux will greatly help Linux, but will hurt gamers. My opinion. We will see what the future holds.

SkyMarshal4• 13 years ago

Not a gamer, why would that be?

philliphaydon2• 13 years ago

Because game companies will likely delay games, cut corners to get cross-platform and claim its too hard, but still charge the same price for less content.

If that makes sense.

officemonkey2• 13 years ago

I think having a lot of new competent programmers (like gaming company programmers) on your OS results in bug-fixes, performance improvements, and "itch-scratching" that will improve the Linux desktop experience.

I can't think of the downside to gamers, but I can think of the upside to Linux.

Xdes• 13 years ago

Until Linux fixes its desktop story I'm going to stick with my Windows PC.

ds_• 13 years ago

What's broken about it?

Yuioup4• 13 years ago

Video, sound, competing standards (which will hinder adoption), antiquated X11. Also when a full-screen X11 overlay (like a game) freezes then the whole desktop freezes (CTRL+ALT+F1 doesn't help).

A Linux enthousiast will forgive these mistakes and find a way around them but Linux noobs wouldn't know what to do.

venomsnake7• 13 years ago

Well linux have 10 main desktop managers that are under development right now. Each and every one of them does roughly 80% of what I want from a desktop. And I have uncomfortable experience on all.

kh_hk• 13 years ago

Which completely steers out of the point in the discussion related to this news announcement.

Valve joining the Linux Foundation does have more to do with the next Valve console and less with the desktop. If Valve wants support from vendors and kernel developers, this is clearly a step in the right direction.

Nobody cares about your desktop. Linux runs way more machines than Windows.

In case you do not know what the Linux Foundation is, I will quote it here:

    The Linux Foundation is a nonprofit consortium dedicated to fostering the 
    growth of Linux and collaborative software development. Founded in 2000, 
    the organization sponsors the work of Linux creator Linus Torvalds and 
    promotes, protects and advances the Linux operating system and 
    collaborative software development by marshaling the resources of its 
    members and the open source community. The Linux Foundation provides a 
    neutral forum for collaboration and education by hosting Collaborative 
    Projects, Linux conferences, including LinuxCon, and generating original
    research and content that advances the understanding of Linux and 
    collaborative software development.

aclevernickname15• 13 years ago

Until mp3 fixes its Walkman story I'm going to stick with cassettes.

vivab0rg• 13 years ago

(Link)[0] to the actual announcement.

[0] http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/announcements/2013...

SkyMarshal4• 13 years ago

Also of note, at the end:

"The Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA) Foundation [1], a nonprofit consortium founded by AMD, ARM, Qualcomm and Samsung, among others to develop open-standard specifications for parallel computing, and startup Cloudius Systems are also joining the Linux Foundation today."

[1] http://hsafoundation.com/

salient3• 13 years ago

I hope something interesting will come out of HSA/OpenCL 2.0 in the next couple of years, and that heterogeneous computing will start becoming more practical for more types of programs.

networked• 13 years ago

If we introduced the Linus-Gates number by analogy with the Erdős-Bacon number [1] but for code, what would Gabe Newell's Linus-Gates number be today?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s%E2%80%93Bacon_numbe...

dysoco2• 13 years ago

Did Gabe and Gates write any substantial code? At least lately? I don't think we could relate them.

devcpp• 13 years ago

Gabe was the 271st employee at Microsoft[0] and "was the producer on the first three releases of Windows"[1], so I suppose that, even if he hasn't contributed to the very same code as Bill Gates did, there must be an earlier employee who has. I don't estimate his Gates code number to be more than 2.

[0] http://www.giantbomb.com/gabe-newell/3040-4498/

[1] http://www.computerandvideogames.com/172835/interviews/creat...

lobo_tuerto• 13 years ago

And here it is, straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8PMUvuHK4g

NikhilVerma• 13 years ago

Wow that's the most childish video graphic I've ever seen.

Aardwolf2• 13 years ago

DOSBox and Wine make Linux quite perfect for gaming.

Interestingly, for some games, running the Windows version in Wine works better than running a native Linux version they've made of the game. E.g. the native Linux version will complain that some library .so is not the correct version, or that it cannot connect to X, etc...

gagege2• 13 years ago

I appreciate and use Wine quite a bit, but it's far from perfect. A lot of things just plain crash from the get go.

Also, I wish that Steam on Linux would attempt to install and run Windows games via Wine. If I want to play, for instance, Spelunky, I need to close Linux Steam (can't log in in multiple clients, last time I checked) and open Windows Steam in Wine. Maybe there's a way to get Wine games to run in Linux Steam, I don't know. It would just be cool if it did it by default.

Groxx2• 13 years ago

Yeah, I've only had success about 3/4 of the time I've used Wine. Maybe less. That's still 3/4 more than 0, so I absolutely love it, but it's definitely not perfect.

codygman• 13 years ago

You could put this in the launch command of your game in the linux client:

wine /full/path/to/windows-game.exe

I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work?

jebblue13• 13 years ago

> I appreciate and use Wine quite a bit, but it's far from perfect. A lot of things just plain crash from the get go.

This hasn't been my experience. Wine works great, Netflix runs very good on Ubuntu because of Wine. I've played several Windows games on Linux like Unreal which ran better on Linux under Wine that on Windows.

BrixSprix• 13 years ago

I would love to have a bit more motivation to set up a linux partition. Getting pretty tired of developing on windows...

int0c2• 13 years ago

Once you start developing against the POSIX API you will notice how beautiful it is and how horrendous the Win32 API is in comparison. :)

taspeotis• 13 years ago

    Once you start developing against the POSIX API you will notice how beautiful it is and how horrendous the Win32 API is in comparison. :)

Yeah, that POSIX standard for displaying windows on Windows is much more beautiful than Win32.

Mikeb859• 13 years ago

I must say, I'm surprised by how many naysayers there are, considering Gabe thinks Linux is the future of gaming. There really is no technical reason why this can't happen, we just need to make it happen...

Finster• 13 years ago

Agreed. After years of haranguing Nvidia, for example, it wasn't until Valve started pushing linux gaming that Nvidia FINALLY started clearing the air a bit on their atrocious driver support.

Valve has a lot of influence in PC gaming. Whether it's enough to raise linux as a preferred platform for PC gaming, only time will tell, but I hope it does.

yapcguy2• 13 years ago

Developers (should) prefer using Linux over OS X.

Mac gaming languishes like it always has.

Pro video users have jumped shipped (still waiting for the new Mac Pro sometime this month, 18 months after Tim Cook teased folks after WWDC, years after any serious update)

What future OS X?!

erikpukinskis• 13 years ago

That video is painful to watch. Here's the source of those video clips of Gabe: http://youtu.be/Gzn6E2m3otg?t=12s It's from LinuxCon in September.

jebblue13• 13 years ago

These guys have so much smarts and common sense, congratulations guys. I'm enjoying Steam on Ubuntu, holding true to my promise to buy games and play them. Even bigger news for me, now I can look forward to purchasing a Steam Machine down the road. Sorry Roku, you've been great but you may have just gotten steam rolled.

Valve joins the Linux Foundation

Related Stories