Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

http://www.lifelisted.com/blog/happens-everything-goes-right/

by spinningarrow • 13 years ago

94 129 13 years ago

forktheif2• 13 years ago

The quick search I just made for suicide rate per capita shows the rate in Singapore is kinda average.

fvrghl• 13 years ago

"The suicide rate in Singapore is rising at an unprecedented rate of 29% a year. With people between the age of 20-29, the increase is a horrifying 80%."

The author said that it is rising rapidly, not that it is currently high.

forktheif2• 13 years ago

Yup, I did read the article. But thanks for the recap

VMG• 13 years ago

Indeed. In a few decades the suicide rate will be 200%.

jpatokal2• 13 years ago

{{citation needed}} for both those figures. Sure, Singapore's education system is pretty brutal, but it's nowhere near as hardcore as (say) South Korea or China.

Graham24• 13 years ago

yeah, whenever I see a stat like 'such-and-such has risen by x%!' and it does not give the absolute figures, I always assume the author is trying to exaggerate and mislead (not that I'm saying this one is).

DannyDover• 13 years ago

Hi forktheif,

I am the author of this article. The wikipedia article on suicide rates (which I am assuming you found via google) uses data from 2009 as its source. The article I wrote uses data from 2011 (which is the most recently available.) More details here: http://www.lifelisted.com/blog/happens-everything-goes-right...

HeXetic• 13 years ago

Can't you link to those numbers?

qdpb• 13 years ago

TL;DR: the country is all right, just didn't like it that much

john2x• 13 years ago

1st world problems. Singapore is too easy to live in.

brador• 13 years ago

Reading between the lines it seems he had a hard time finding friends. Singaporeans don't drink as excessively as Americans, so if your only "fun" outlet is alcohol you're gonna have a tough time.

Luc2• 13 years ago

I feel dumber for having read that.

girvo• 13 years ago

Seriously? I agree with the OP. And I've spent quite a bit of time in Singapore when I was younger.

Luc2• 13 years ago

See, you have your own experience to rely on, but I know very little about Singapore. I read through those few morsels of, uh, peculiar observations, and was left with the feeling that it was perhaps relevant to the author's family and friends, but it didn't leave me feeling like he made a good case for his point of view. I think the article says more about the author than about Singapore, and I'm not particularly interested in the author.

Oh look, he's peddling some self-improvement story, what a surprise. And he's an SEO guy, that explains the writing style at least.

In fact, some of the comments are better than the article. Shorter, too.

threeseed2• 13 years ago

I found it incredibly stupid.

Never return to Singapore because every day students declare pride in their country ? Great. Better not spend any time in the US, UK, Australia or countless other countries. Or do people think kids are just born with an understanding of the flag, anthem etc.

And citizens are forced to spend time in the military. Okay that is a bit much but hardly unprecedented. And personally I find the military propaganda in the US far more insidious.

As for average quality of life. Well that is obviously debatable:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_Index

thowar2• 13 years ago

Life is short, why spend it in places you dont enjoy?

collyw4• 13 years ago

because all the decent paying jobs are in crappy big cities. I would far rather live in the mountains.

oftenwrong• 13 years ago

So work in the crappy big cities, making your decent pay. If you save enough, maybe you'll be able to live in the mountains for a while before you die, hopefully not spending the entire time regretting that you lived for money instead of what you actually wanted.

product50• 13 years ago

So he doesn't want to return to Singapore because everything went right in that country? People are never satisfied! He doesn't list a single problem except for suicide rates going up - which on a per capita basis is average when compared to the other countries.

mvikramaditya3• 13 years ago

The article seems to be a summary of the consequences of modern living, and the loss of "community", "fun" and "enjoyment" which goes along with it.

emblebi2• 13 years ago

No, this is the real reason from the article:

"I describe my time living in Singapore as sterile. Nothing particularly bad happened but it wasn’t particularly good either. Daily life was convenient but it was only the bare minimum of living. I had everything I needed to be comfortable but I didn’t have anything that inspired me. Even though there wasn’t a language barrier, I encountered a hefty communication barrier. In my experience, people were polite but conversations rarely moved past surface-level niceties. Of the conversations that I took part in and overheard, the vast majority of them were about work. I routinely watched people work 15 hours days and stress over strict deadlines. Yes it was living and they were making progress but it wasn’t holistic and people openly admitted to me that it wasn’t fulfilling."

And it's true. It's a country of 716.1 km2 (276 sq mi). For locals, life there is mind-numbingly boring and stressful. I too left and would never return.

threeseed2• 13 years ago

I laughed a bit when I read that paragraph. Because I am sure it is the current/future dream of most of the people on HN to work for a big internet company in Silicon Valley. Which of course means long hours with your free time spent talking about work.

The fact is that in "international" cities like Singapore, London, Sydney, Paris etc people do work long hours and in their spare time often talk about what they are spending the majority of their life doing. It's completely natural and par for the course.

twelvechairs3• 13 years ago

how about 'because it is an authoritarian single party state'?

mvikramaditya3• 13 years ago

Nowhere in the article does the author blame this for the perceived issues he mentions. In fact from his tone, this seems to be a positive in the way Singapore has improved in modern terms.

twelvechairs3• 13 years ago

that's my point. he doesn't acknowledge the most important factor, although it actually underlies many of his issues.

"improved in modern terms" is very twisted language - perhaps you'd care to explain what you mean by this specifically

msohcw2• 13 years ago

As in Plato's five regimes, democracy is only very slightly better than tyranny/anarchy. Authoritarian single party state can also be rephrased into functioning semi-aristocracy. All governments have advantages and flaws, it's better to compare them not on a theoretical demonized basis but on the output and tangible effects. For example, economically Singapore succeeds fantastically, but culturally it's missing something.

JonnieCache• 13 years ago

This is basically a shorter, more weakly-argued version of William Gibson's first piece of non-fiction writing, Disneyland with the Death Penalty:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson_pr.html

EDIT: not that it isn't a good blog. But if you like it, you should really read the gibson article too.

jpatokal2• 13 years ago

Gibson's article is a brilliant piece of writing, but it was written in 1993. Singapore has changed quite a bit in the two decades since, although many of his observations do remain painfully accurate.

seivan3• 13 years ago

I've lived in Singapore. It's actually a pretty amazing country for such small years into existence. There are some shady stuff being done in the name of profit at the expense of its population, but then again so does any country that has high taxes with mediocre added value.

This person argues about foreigners - in only to become one henself. Ironyyyyy

ewang12• 13 years ago

I'd say the US has more problems than Singapore... And on the topic of taxes, the tax rate in Singapore is actually much lower than in the US (based on CA; middle class).

LekkoscPiwa2• 13 years ago

why BMWs are on average 4 times more expensive in Singapour than US? Low taxes at work? Need to use public transportation because cars ownership is taxed to hell and back? How came person using bus and not owning a car is considered to have better standard of living?

yxhuvud2• 13 years ago

henself? Nice swinglish.

seivan3• 13 years ago

Wasn't really sure what to write. I think I know you btw.

rdl4• 13 years ago

I just spent a few days in Singapore with some western expat friends, and their local friends, and I really love the place for what it has accomplished. If you compare it to Malaysia (a racist command economy), Indonesia (kleptocracy , until recently -- in the past few years it has gotten a lot better) and Thailand (how many coups?), and remember how few natural resources Singapore has, it is even more amazing.

I agree it isn't perfect; I prefer living in the US, both because I'm a citizen and because I like land, cars, guns, etc -- but compared to where Singapore could be, it is almost unbelievable.

hackerboos2• 13 years ago

I don't think it's fair to compare Singapore to its neighbours considering how it was colonized. It's better to make the comparison with Hong Kong which enjoys much more freedom (even post 1997) than Singapore.

rdl4• 13 years ago

I love Hong Kong (probably my favorite city in the world), but in the case of Singapore and Malaysia (which were the most closely tied), I'd rather be from the worst-off group in Singapore (Malay?) than from the best off group in Singapore (politically connected and Malay, except maybe from the top few families), so a lot of it was due to PAP and post-1965 actions. If you're Chinese or Indian it's even more clear which country is going to give you more opportunity to succeed.

The strangest thing is reading about how relatively poor Singapore and even Hong Kong were in the 1970s and early 1980s; it was really the opening up of China, end of the Cold War, and explosion in trade (as well as government policies in each which benefitted from these trends) which turned them into such amazing countries.

JDShu• 13 years ago

If you make that comparison, I would say Singapore has been a much more successful economy.

Hong Kong is stuck in it's role as a financial center, of which it's competitive advantage is getting eroded. Plus that 'competitive advantage' really boils down to knowing how to speak English and having extremely low wages for a developed economy.

On the other hand, Singapore has successfully transitioned from being a financial center to the technological capital of East Asia. Something that the Hong Kong government desperately wants to do, but continues to fail at. And I am not even going to go into the current political storm.

Hong Kong is probably the more interesting city (I'm biased of course, having lived there for years and consider it my home away from home away from home) but out of the HK-Singapore rivalry, I think Singapore has the upper hand.

/rant

arocks• 13 years ago

Also worth reading is "Don't come home to soulless Singapore" [1] that too went viral.

[1] http://sg.news.yahoo.com/your-view--don-t-come-home-to-soull...

ewang12• 13 years ago

On the flip side, I'd much rather the public schools in the US place the same amount of emphasis on math and science as the schools in Singapore.

I've spent 10 years in the education system in Singapore, and when I came to the US to continue high school, I was surprised at how dumbed down things are here. For example, topics typically covered in AP Chemistry would be part of the normal chemistry curriculum over in Singapore, and taught at the 9th grade level. High school lab sessions here were nothing more than simple experiments and anything more advanced were replaced with demos by teachers in the interest of liability and what not.

jingwen3• 13 years ago

After graduating, every citizen is required to do active service in the military.

Nitpick: Men only. It's a common lament here that the men start higher education/work a couple of years later than their women counterparts, hence "losing out".

rdl4• 13 years ago

I wish the Israelis or Swiss could come in to fix the Singaporean national service system. It is ineffective and inefficient -- the NS system produces a subpar military (the full timers are quite good though), and it provides very limited benefits to the individual.

A shorter period of training, a competitive bidding process to get into elite units like Israel's 8200, and a longer term commitment with the same people for the rest of your life, would be vastly better (and probably something the US should consider).

As it is, NS is basically wasted time for most people . Ambulance and SOF seem like the only decent options. The discrimination against the Malay origin singaporeans also seems wrong.

jingwen3• 13 years ago

Getting the Israelis visibly and heavily involved in the Singaporean military is just asking for trouble in the region, given the nature of the country's neighbours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Singapore_relations

mchaver• 13 years ago

Another issue I have heard about is the difference in local and expat salary (only hearsay, I don't have any data). Add that on top of mandatory military service for men and it could leave someone pretty unsatisfied.

agilebyte3• 13 years ago

Do women have children then during the same period? Seems more like an equalizer to me when it comes to time away from work.

Edit: explaining the equalizing factor

altero• 13 years ago

Should woman go to jail for avoiding children?

It actually makes situation for woman with children much worse, since she is alone while her partner is in military.

Gay couple with children, where both parents would have to go illustrates it well.

jingwen3• 13 years ago

The only "equalizing" compulsory conscription provides is when it puts men of diverse backgrounds into a tight-knit environment where they have to live, work and play together for the majority of the week. You don't get that outside of the military, or at least not in the same scale.

The pregnancy vs conscription issue really isn't debatable.

agilebyte3• 13 years ago

I was addressing the comment that men complain it makes them start their work later in life because of a military service. I was saying that (some) women go through the same by having children.

sleepyhead6• 13 years ago

Please tell me where in the world you shall live if you will not return to one of the best countries (as per most statistics) in the world?

And this guy is American. A country which invades other countries, kills civilians and holds people locked up in Guantanamo Bay. Yes, surely that is much better.

I haven't lived in Singapore but spent a bit of time there when I lived in Malaysia.

westicle• 13 years ago

The guy simply expressed an opinion about where he doesn't want to live. You can't force him to agree with your opinion on the subject, and you're unlikely to convince anyone with a barely coherent rant about a bunch of topics not even relevant to the original post.

Calm the fuck down.

sleepyhead6• 13 years ago

An I expressed my opinion. I think you are the one who needs to calm down given your words.

thelettere2• 13 years ago

Yes, because numbers can measure everything. Congrats on completely missing his point.

sleepyhead6• 13 years ago

A big part of the blog post is about numbers. Congrats on completely missing his point.

hrabago• 13 years ago

Like a lot of things I see grownups do, this action of leaving and never returning to Singapore strikes me as a reaction to one's past experience. I grew up in a crowded place where crime and terrorist attacks where a normal part of life. As an adult, I moved to the US and my job always took me to less crowded cities. I've visited places like New York since, and realized that I do not miss living in crowded places at all.

I read a lot about what's supposedly wrong with suburbia (the media and hollywood seems to view it as morally wrong), but I find myself drawn to the relative peace and slow pace they describe. I often think it's because of where I grew up.

To me, the author is making a similar move, though in the opposite direction. Life was too simple, too comfortable, and too polite in Singapore, and now he's had his full of it, and needs the opposite. I can relate, except I'm coming from where he's going, and I went to what he's trying to escape.

VLM2• 13 years ago

(the media and hollywood seems to view it as morally wrong)

Their advertisers have a certain preference for how you spend your money. And suburban land developers are not exactly known for buying advertising on TV and product placement in movies. Its not a moral thing, just follow the money.

Kiro• 13 years ago

That's some weak arguments. If anything, this article made me want to move to Singapore.

ghshephard4• 13 years ago

I've been working in singapore for four months this year, and I'm based out of Redwood City, California (not really a bastion of culture) but originally from Vancouver, British Columbia (Canada).

I absolutely understand what the author was writing about - I really love this country - it's clean, safe, really clean, has really affordable food and incredible transportation system. The buses are actually worth using, and the people have been universally friendly. But, there is something missing.

When I go back to Canada, people live to do things outside of work. They go to the Abbotsford Apple Barn, Hang out at Stanley Park, spend an afternoon in the Vancouver Library, Head up to Cypress Bowl to go Snowboarding, etc, etc.. Maybe it's because there is more "space" - but I'm still trying to find out what it is that people in Singapore do, and why? So often, the answer I get, is "Go to the Mall" or, "Take my kids to tuition".

The country has accomplished incredible things with so few resources - the people are the only resources - and they've achieved a level of social and cultural harmony that really shows how poorly other countries are.

Perhaps I just need to spend a few more years to soak up the local culture and events - at the very least the hawker stands could keep me occupied that long.

CaptainZapp• 13 years ago

I've only visited for a weekend and was utterly prepared to hate the crap out of Singapore. We're not up to a good start when your landing card spells out in bold and red DEATH TO DRUG TRAFFICKERS (a bit more eloquent, but that's the gist of it).

Reality, however, is not quite as black and white and - although I would never want to live there for an extended period - I left the country with rather mixed feelings.

Let me pull out one example that really, really impressed me.

Near the Marina Sands (the $5B casino complex, which actually cost S$8B according to Wikipedia) they built the Gardens by the Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardens_by_the_Bay) for something above S$ 1B.

Those gardens, which are beautiful and very impressive; an oasis of calm and serenity in a bustling metropolis are built on reclaimed land. In essence: some of the most expensive ground anywhere in the world.

Just imagine the mega mall, the super hotel, or another office complex that could have been built on that land. And they "waste" it for a damn garden.

I thought that they did that despite the intense commercial pressure is immensely cool and is a really nice example for what are some great aspects about this city.

ghshephard4• 13 years ago

I'm looking at my Social Visit pass - you nailed it, it says in bright red:

WARNING DEATH FOR DRUG TRAFFICKERS UNDER SINGAPORE LAW

But - you get that message while you are still on the plane (and presumably have a chance to turn back?)

Yes - GardenByTheBay is beautiful - as are the two conservatoriums (one of which they replicate Dry, Cool Mountain Highland Environment - which, is quite an accomplishment in Hot, Humid Singapore.) Indeed - so much of Singapore is actually Green/Catchment basin - it's a priority for them, as they rely on the catchment basins quite a bit for their fresh water (in addition to NEWater and their world class desalination plants.

cdf• 13 years ago

I dont like the Gardens, but it is not correct to say it is wasted. Precisely because it is reclaimed, it needs another decade or so for the soil to settle before we can build skyscrapers on it.

Trust me when I say it, real estate speculation is the primary path to wealth in Singapore, and the biggest, most well oiled speculator in Singapore is the government.

alex_c• 13 years ago

Dear god, how you feel about Singapore compared to Canada is exactly how I feel about Canada compared to, say, an European country. If the comparison holds, then Singapore truly sounds like a wonderful place to survive but a dreadful place to live...

VLM2• 13 years ago

"Go to the Mall" or, "Take my kids to tuition".

The impression I've gotten about Singapore is its like a hyper urbanized American suburb. The vast majority of people silently love the American suburb, and a small extremely vocal group loudly hate the American suburb.

So thats how you end up with discussions like this, where you're really hearing very local burb vs downtown mumbling and declaration of membership in one local faction or another rather than an actual discussion of Singapore.

army• 13 years ago

The political system in Singapore also makes me uncomfortable: it's superficially democratic but not really in spirit.

D9u• 13 years ago

If you seek fulfillment from within it matters not where you are situated.

dualogy2• 13 years ago

Gonna remember that the next time I wind up in Manila or Milton Keynes or Chernobyl or Dhaka..

frenger• 13 years ago

Cool, let's move to Syria and mediate from there then. /s Choosing a nice place to live is important.

buster2• 13 years ago

I don't get it... actually my dream would be to work in Singapore and to be able to get to Bali or Kuala Lumpur or Thailand or Australia in such a short time is just perfect. You have a great work place but the possibility to experience very different countries.

azatris• 13 years ago

I am currently residing in Singapore and in my opinion - there is not really much to see here and in the surrounding areas, if you are here for more than a month.

I encourage you, before nosediving here for a longer period (like I do for 9 months), visit the place and make sure you really like it here. I do not, as my view of Singapore highly correlates with the article.

buster2• 13 years ago

I think the main problem for the author is that singapore is to clean and to un-exciting for him, because everyone just works and is in line. But my point is to have a good working environment (evidently one can work quite well in SG) but look around for the non-working time.

gtuckerkellogg3• 13 years ago

I'm an American who has lived in Singapore for almost nine years, in two very different jobs, in two very different parts of the city-state. Singapore has a lot of challenges, but the oversimplifications and generalisations in this glib article don't do Singapore or Singaporeans any favours. (I've been here long enough that my spell-check is set to British English).

Let's take National Service (NS). Dover writes: "after graduating, every citizen is required to do active service in the military." This is wrong on at least three points, which is impressive for a sentence that short: 1) NS is not required of all citizens, only men; 2) NS is also required of male permanent residents who turn 18 in Singapore, and 3) it's an age requirement, not a graduation requirement.

He goes on to write that "pride is the result" of the NS requirement, in that part of the article that seems devoted to unqualified praise of Singapore's success. Really? Pride alone? Yes, male Singaporeans are proud of their service in NS, but plenty — especially younger Singaporeans — also resent it, resent the foreigners and women who don't have to do it and who they believe get an upper leg in society as a result. I've had Singaporean men explain away sexual harassment of women — harassment they witnessed first hand — on the grounds of the hazing they received during NS. If "sense of pride" is the only thing Dover has to say about NS in Singapore, even after months of living here, I'm not surprised he never had deep conversations with any Singaporeans.

Pro tip, Dover: there are better ways to investigate peoples' heritage than walking around asking people about their heritage. And if you do ask, and the answer you get is "what heritage?" and a laugh? Well, that may not mean what you think it means.

There's a lot happening in Singapore. It's an evolving place, with a growing civil society, increasing activism, growing nationalism and anti-foreigner sentiment, brutal competitiveness (the Singlish word is "kiasu", which is a Hokkien term that translates as "afraid to lose"), a terrible Gini coefficient, complex underlying racial tensions, and some absurd historical hard-edged nanny-state reflexes. There are a lot of things Singapore needs, but the dynamics are complex, not ripe for banal oversimplification.

blisterpeanuts4• 13 years ago

gtuckerkellogg, thanks for your posting. I'm curious -- have you learned Mandarin or Malay language during your stay, enough to communicate extensively?

It was my experience living in Taiwan for two years that language is a significant requirement for understanding the culture, even when English is commonly spoken among the educated classes.

In my opinion, a month really isn't long enough to evaluate a country, even a small one such as Singapore.

gtuckerkellogg3• 13 years ago

I've learned to speak Mandarin, but not Malay. I can read and write enough to read the Chinese newspaper and sing karaoke. It's helpful: it breaks down a lot of cultural barriers, and makes chatting with cab drivers more fun. It also makes the Singlish more understandable. There's a lot of Singaporean English that borrows from Chinese word order, which in western English sounds harsh even though the Chinese word order (in Chinese) uses it as an expression of politeness. E.g., "Go to lunch, can or not?"

gtuckerkellogg3• 13 years ago

Obviously, Dover can live where he chooses, and like the places he chooses. I don't begrudge him his preferences. But the shallow armchair-quarterbacking from someone who has clearly made no serious effort to have a substantive experience of a place? That I could do without.

After I posted my comment, I read his Life List, his About page, and other parts of his site, and realised that Dover's entire schtick is to promote an utterly self-absorbed worldview, so the lack of perspective is not really about Singapore.

creamyhorror2• 13 years ago

I've lived in Singapore all my life save for a few years in the US.

This article's points are weakly argued, and Singapore's staidness is entirely a first-world problem which people from some neighbouring countries wouldn't find much of a problem at all. But on the whole, I'd agree with the author that Singapore is lacking in quite a few ways compared to the top cities (economically or culturally) of the world. Off the top of my head:

1) A conservative, risk-averse, wealth-focused culture of keeping up with the Joneses. This is mostly the modern result of traditional Chinese competitiveness and desire for 'face'. Parents live for their children - you want your kids to do well so you can proudly tell others about them, and because you expect to support you financially when you're old. You pressure them to take the well-respected and profitable route in life, and you prohibit them from taking the risky path to inevitable ruin as a starving artist, etc.

The children then go into executive jobs, trying to be managers, avoiding the low-paid engineering/technical positions (programming, pfft, that's for cheap foreign labour), and not caring very much about things that don't have an immediate impact on their careers or everyday lives. The endgame is to own property and collect rent, which is the main gateway to wealth (as it is in most of Asia - just look at how the majority of Asian tycoons made their fortunes).

This causes most Singaporeans to be relatively homogeneous in the things they do and their outlook on the world. You won't find anywhere near the range of activities, passions and hobbies that Americans engage in. Everyone does the same few things, and talks about the same few topics, all of the time.

2) A dearth of dreams, imagination, and world-changing idealism. The core value of Singapore is pragmatism, and it's built into every facet of this place. The parenting, school system, government, and even national service in the military all shape citizens toward a very stable and staid pattern of thought: that things can't be changed, that responsibilities to family come first, that there's no point trying to correct the system or working to change it because the school/army/corporate/government bureaucracy is too entrenched and won't ever listen. This sense of "nothing's going to change, why bother fighting" was particularly bad in the '90s and before, and I still hear such opinions from my parents. Is it a surprise, then, that innovation wasn't too prized until recently?

It doesn't help that there didn't use to be a wide range of employment available in the earlier decades, so not many people tried to eke out careers in more unusual areas, much less start campaigns to change Singaporean society and the world. The older generation of Singaporeans would deride these endeavours as mere dreams and silly teenage notions; you'd grow out of it eventually and become a doctor or executive or whatever. Hardly anyone has made a big impact internationally - whether as an athlete, artist, scientist, or entrepreneur - which meant that there were few role models for kids to look up to. No Michael Jordans or Bill Gateses here.

3) Size. Many of Singapore's problems stem from its size. The lack of space results in runaway rents. Sky-high rents drive out less profitable business and ensure few people can experiment with new, risky concepts that don't turn a big profit. This keeps businesses more conservative and makes it hard for organic enclaves to emerge here. (You rarely see unoccupied shop space here, much less abandoned buildings where someone might throw a pop-up party or hold an exhibition.)

High rents also mean everyone lives with their parents, can't afford to buy a house till they get married, and is reluctant to rent a place. They don't have their own space to socialise, have people over, live their own lives, which makes for a pretty sober existence - literally and figuratively. (I suspect this is one reason the rate of singlehood is really high; we simply don't have enough fun with friends, and rarely meet new people.) Then the high density also leads to massive peak load on public transport, which worsen the daily experience.

The island's small size and heavy urbanisation leaves it with few natural scenic spots. You have to fly out to get anywhere scenic (this is related to point 4).

Finally, the small population isn't a very attractive target for entrepreneurs, and the lack of a shared culture with nearby countries makes it hard to penetrate those markets without moving there. It also makes it a much more comfortable bet to be a professional than an entrepreneur or artist. Having few successful entrepreneurs leads to fewer kids having big dreams.

4) Climate and geography. The heat and humidity mean that it's simply not enjoyable to hang out in the sun. You can't enjoy long walks or bicycle rides here without getting drenched in sweat. If you hang out with friends, you do it in air-conditioning, which means restaurants, bars, and shopping malls. I can't go and sit on the grass like I did in the US, much less head out of town to snowboard, walk through vineyards, or camp by a lake.

It's also a relatively flat island. An American friend's visiting mother remarked that one problem with Singapore is that it lacks a mountain, and she's right. Add to that the lack of seasons and the relatively monotonous tropical foliage, and you end up with nature that isn't all that enjoyable and barely any scenic vistas. In stark contrast are the natural and man-made sights of Japan and Taiwan, which awe Singaporeans endlessly - it's no surprise that they're probably the most popular travel destinations for us.

5) A lack of natural community and social openness. Like many dense cities, we don't have many events and local festivals that naturally bring communities together. This is in contrast to the festivals that occur in many neighbouring countries, in Europe, in Japan, and wherever old traditions have been preserved. Many Singaporeans are strangers to their neighbours, which makes for a small social circle and a closedness to making new friends outside of school.

There's no culture of talking to strangers at all, and children are actively discouraged from taking an interest in other people (being a "kaypoh" busybody). I remember this acutely from my own upbringing; you minded your own business, because you'd probably look silly if you tried to interfere in others, or even get in trouble.

A co-worker from Vietnam commented that while he makes much more money here, he finds that home offers more enjoyment and celebration of life and friendships, more things to do, and less of a focus on work and earning money. This echoes comments I've heard from foreigners from France, New York, China, and elsewhere.

-----

Some of these things have changed a bit, especially with the changing outlook of top politicians, the livening up of the city centre, and the loosening of old bureaucratic rules. Many more people have travelled or lived overseas, which has lead some to import foreign ideas: witness the boom in cafes, bars, campaigns and organisations started by yuppies who fell in love with an idea, a style, or a culture while they were abroad. But the historical inertia of being a pragmatic, competitive, unidealistic, and unopen culture is too much to overcome in a mere decade or two.

No magic ever happens in Singapore. Godzilla attacks Tokyo, mobsters run Hong Kong, down-and-out writers shoot to fame in New York, Hollywood stars zip around Los Angeles, tech revolutions start in Silicon Valley - but Singaporeans would scoff and laugh at a movie that set the fantastical or whimsical in Singapore. We're enraptured by the fairytale fantasies that Korean dramas spin, because we have none of that. We can't imagine anything interrupting our routine, everyday lives and stolid bureaucracy. It's like being in a small town and knowing that monsters will only ever attack New York. That's the upshot of a Singaporean upbringing.

I completely understand why people would leave for more culturally rich places. I hope to eventually spend at least half my time out of the country, probably through building a cross-national business - but for now I'm stuck here, looking for the right connections and opportunities (if you're in town and have a good idea, get in touch).

Kurtz793• 13 years ago

Great comment, thanks for sharing your view.

But in the end, although the original post is weakly argued, it seems that you more or less agree with it, isn't it ?

msohcw2• 13 years ago

Thanks for speaking some sense. I suspect the author got the notion of Singaporean pride wrong. We're far more prideful when we feel attacked or maligned by foreigners, despite the day to day lamentations. You've stated arguments I agree with, but I do honestly feel that you're overgeneralizing to a large extent. I think it helps if we consider again what you mentioned about size. Singapore has a relatively small population. It's true, we don't produce that many groundbreaking innovations, but we need to consider the mathematical probabilities of having them in a relatively smaller population as well. My guess is that the detriment is at least an n^2 term, with less sharing of ideas, interaction and encouragement to pursue risk. As a student, I increasingly see people pursuing the entrepreneurship and more risky careers, rather than "selling out". After reading so many American articles and opinions and blogs, I don't think the idea of pursuing low risk paths is specifically amplified in Singapore. Everyone wants to do amazing things, but no one dares to. It just so happens that it's more common in other countries because of larger populations, and the environment that successful by chance entrepreneurs (I say this not to deride them but as a point of argument) have fostered. I don't have statistics to back this up, but hey we had Creative and Sembcorp/KeppelCorp. Our successes are just a lot less sexy. There's a lot of fallacious stereotyping as a result. Pragmatism doesn't imply a lack of innovation, creativity or success. On the contrary, it finds the most efficient way through to it. Our research institutions ASTAR focus on the commercialization of technology. That means we miss the sights and sounds and new discoveries along the way, we don't have Nobel Prizes, but can one really say that one type of practical innovation is better than the other?

Although props to you on the culture analogy. Nothing interesting ever happens in Singapore. For that, I think we must be at least slightly thankful. It's interesting to watch a government's politicking, gridlock and shutdown, but if and only if it's in another country

creamyhorror2• 13 years ago

My guess is that the detriment is at least an n^2 term, with less sharing of ideas, interaction and encouragement to pursue risk.

Absolutely. That's part of the reason for the lower level of risk-taking and innovation here. It boils down to having a small population.

As a student, I increasingly see people pursuing the entrepreneurship and more risky careers, rather than "selling out".

Yes, this is definitely a trend, and a good one. I was talking more about the past. The pressure to go for fancy careers is still high, though - except that banking and consulting have supplanted medicine and law to some extent.

It just so happens that it's more common in other countries because of larger populations

You seem to be arguing that it's not our fault that we have less risk-taking and innovation here, it's just our small population that's the problem. Well, I don't entirely disagree - I think our size is half the problem, and the other half is our society's historical evolution (and cultural roots). It doesn't change the fact that our market size limits our entrepreneurial prospects - unless we learn to sell to big, lucrative markets like Israeli startups did.

we had Creative and Sembcorp/KeppelCorp

Creative was our sole shining star, and now it's essentially gone, massively outcompeted by Apple. SembCorp, PSA, Surbana and the like are ex-national corporations (IIRC) that I don't consider examples of entrepreneurship - they were built in the mould of efficiently-run government departments from the start. I do like the fact that Charles & Keith, Hyflux, BreadTalk, et al are seeing some success overseas. Still, we don't have a Sony or Samsung.

Our research institutions ASTAR focus on the commercialization of technology

They didn't use to, and now they're driving the real scientists and big names away with their renewed focus on commercialisation. Honestly they should never have focused on basic research in the first place, but instead on commercialising technologies from around the world.

I like your optimism that things are changing - that's the spirit we need to take more adventurous paths. The more people who want to achieve big things and don't want to settle for the usual routes, the better.

To our foreign friends, our young generation is pretty alright.

tlarkworthy• 13 years ago

"In my experience, people were polite but conversations rarely moved past surface-level niceties."

As a Britain who lived in America, this is how I felt about Americans. I think its more of a cultural illusion.

dualogy2• 13 years ago

As a German who lived in Britain, this is how I felt about Brits :D

It's a neverending circle..

collyw4• 13 years ago

Did you live in the south east of England by any chance? It gets better the further from London you get.

yardie3• 13 years ago

As an American living in France, this is how I feel about the French.

But I've heard the opposite from other brits about Americans. We're too friggin nosey. We want to know where you live, where you went to school, what you do (this is really big blunder a lot of Americans make), and why you're here.

blisterpeanuts4• 13 years ago

Agreed, I have been told by Europeans that it's not common in their region to ask what you do for a living. It's as though they'd rather talk about real things rather than mundane money-related humdrum topics. It's rather refreshing, actually.

Quite the opposite from Taiwan where I lived for a couple of years. People would ask questions that in the West would be considered incredibly intrusive: how old are you, what do you weigh, are you married (and if not, why not?) and so forth. To me it was like a giant Jewish family. Or, I guess, a giant Chinese family :)

Nicholas_C• 13 years ago

what you do (this is really big blunder a lot of Americans make)

Woah, woah, woah, is this impolite to ask outside of the US?

mathattack• 13 years ago

The complaints about Singapore all seem true for many years. Sure it's a little sterile. Sure it's conservative. Sure it's small. These have all been true.

It's also open to outsiders, and a model for good governance, and a mutli-cultural hub.

It's ok to leave, but to say, "Screw you, I'm gone forever and never coming back" just seems childish.

collyw4• 13 years ago

Anecdotaly, I have two friends who lived in Singapore for a couple of years. Both them said the same as the author.

pacofvf• 13 years ago

Well, look at the Happy Planet Index, the top choices are not countries that are known for having great development ratings.

1. Costa Rica 2. Vietnam 3. Colombia 4. Belize 5. El Salvador

I have to admit that I don't believe people in Belize or El Salvador are happier than say Mexico or Panamá just to name a few neighbors. It's weird how the first "Industrialized" country is Israel at 15th place, and the next is New Zealand at 28th followed by Norway. Also most of the top 30 are latinamerican countries, so maybe is just a cultural thing to be always happy.

lazylizard4• 13 years ago

a bit off track perhaps. singapore was supposedly working towards achieving a "swiss standard of living".. now that the swiss are considering a citien's income scheme..i wonder if singapore would follow...ahahhahahahhha...

jasonlingx• 13 years ago

What an amazingly entitled and self-absorbed piece. Complaining because it is too comfortable? Complaining because "nothing inspired me"? Complaining because "people" won't have engaging conversations with you? Stop whining and do something about it.

I describe my time living in Singapore as sterile. Nothing particularly bad happened but it wasn’t particularly good either. Daily life was convenient but it was only the bare minimum of living. I had everything I needed to be comfortable but I didn’t have anything that inspired me. Even though there wasn’t a language barrier, I encountered a hefty communication barrier. In my experience, people were polite but conversations rarely moved past surface-level niceties. Of the conversations that I took part in and overheard, the vast majority of them were about work. I routinely watched people work 15 hours days and stress over strict deadlines. Yes it was living and they were making progress but it wasn’t holistic and people openly admitted to me that it wasn’t fulfilling.

austinz• 13 years ago

The problem I have with this (and Gibson's article linked below) is that there is an incredibly patronizing undercurrent to the complaints that everything is clean and works right. Grinding poverty and picturesque slums might be a creative ferment for Western expatriates (who can almost always pick and choose what they experience), but the Asians, Africans, South Americans, etc who are forced to suffer those conditions their entire lives don't see it that way at all.

Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

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