My Love, Hate, Love Again, Affair with Paul Graham

http://www.gicleelife.com/love_hate_pg.php

by jkuria • 17 years ago

71 61 17 years ago

mahmud5• 17 years ago

this is how good people are made into cult-figures; please do not idolize hackers, they don't care if you do.

unalone8• 17 years ago

I'll play devil's advocate and say that it's not making the guy into a cult figure, it's writing about one person's relationship with his writings. That ought to happen with any good writer and thinker: they should build relationships with people on the basis of their work alone.

I have a similar relationship with PG's essays, though mine's not a particularly strong one. My cofounder, on the other hand, quotes PG essays a lot, looks into a lot of the things he recommends, and definitely has had his mindset changed a few times over the course of reading his archives. That's what's so cool about writing! When you make an essay you're putting a part of yourself - your opinions along with your personality - out there for anybody to see. It builds a connection with people, lots of people, on the fact of its sheer existence.

That's not a cult. That's good writing.

mahmud5• 17 years ago

Maybe we work differently, but I certainly associate with ideas rather than their originators. The fame of a successful work should eclipse the fame of its author in hacking, unlike other fluffy fields of work like management and self-help industries (hint: the "Linux Torvalds" effect.)

I don't know if it's the intention of PG to become a "Get Rich Quick" guru, but to me he is the author of ANSI CL and On Lisp, a decent human being in the same league as Norvig, Kent Pitman and Dick Gabriel. Actually, I like Paul Graham more than "PG", thanks to all this idol-worshiping.

Whatever that guy wrote in his blog should have been a private email. Better yet, a personal diary entry in _paper_.

sho11• 17 years ago

Jesus christ. I guess this is the downside of being famous - random crazy people start fixating upon you as their leader/friend/saviour/nemesis/soulmate and reading all sorts of crap into every aspect of their life, when all you were trying to do was write a decent essay. What do you even say to people like this.

Dude .. I don't know what you are looking for, but it is almost certain you will not find it in PG.

This kind of thing scares me, it really does. Intelligent person .. good writing, obviously can express himself well .. but this search, this willingness to devote himself to something, someone, anything .. this is a serious bug in man's programming. I don't know the answer.

mrtron• 17 years ago

I think the downside is easily outweighed by being able to inspire people.

unalone8• 17 years ago

I said this in my below comment, but... Don't people do the same thing with any kind of artist? I know that I feel I have a personal relationship with David Lynch that's evolved as I watch his movies. I definitely have that relationship with author Daniel Handler: I'll find an old interview of his and feel slightly wounded, like he didn't tell me about it before.

That's natural. We devote ourselves all the times to good things. Do you ever get into web browser fights? Or Mac vs. PC arguments? Hacker News versus Digg? Because that's all devotion.

sho11• 17 years ago

I don't get into any of those arguments. Except Mac vs. PC, which is on very specific technical and aesthetic grounds!

Regarding "personal relationships" with cultural authors, all I can offer is Neal Stephenson's Why I Am A Bad Correspondent, which explains better than I ever could:

http://web.mac.com/nealstephenson/Neal_Stephensons_Site/Bad_...

By the way, I also like Lynch. And I bet you also like Stephenson. I wonder if there's some ultra-narrow cultural niche we all fit into ; )

calambrac2• 17 years ago

Some of his work may resonate with you emotionally, and you might look at his name as a signal that the next work will, as well, but to think that means you have a "personal relationship" with him is creepy as hell.

Are there people I admire? Of course. That admiration isn't personal, though - it stems from the things they've done and results they've achieved by doing them. The Steve Jobs that I admire, for instance, is not a person to me, he's an idea. Steve Jobs the person? I have zero desire or right to know anything about him. I have no personal relationship with him. I don't want one.

It's almost offensive to think that devotion to some famous person you've never met could be considered the same as spending some time on the interwebs arguing PC vs. Mac. You need some help.

petercooper2• 17 years ago

but this search, this willingness to devote himself to something, someone, anything .. this is a serious bug in man's programming.

Is it really a bug? Idolation is more common than it's not and I'd be surprised if everyone hadn't felt it to an extent (if only to a non human entity, such as a programming language, a band, or a religion).

sho11• 17 years ago

Ideas and thoughts, and the people who express them, are separate, and ever will be so. Fixating on the originator of an idea is folly and childishness.

We are both fans of Ruby, I know that much. But do you love Matz, specifically? Follow everything he writes? Look to him for guidance in your personal life? Of course not, and me either. I can love his ideas seperate from him.

Same with PG. I wouldn't be here if I didn't greatly admire his thinking. But personally idolising the guy? Of course not.

Yes I have felt that before, when I was younger, when I was a child, and yes about a band. Now I consider it childishness, a wish to abandon one's duty to think for oneself. I may be wrong, of course.

kirubakaran• 17 years ago

"Jesus Christ" ... "random crazy people start fixating upon you as their leader/friend/saviour/nemesis/soulmate and reading all sorts of crap into every aspect of their life"

You may be on to something bigger than what you meant.

sho11• 17 years ago

Indeed, but I didn't want to get too off topic. Needless to say I agree with what you insinuate.

wensing• 17 years ago

Call me crazy.

alecco• 17 years ago

Because we are apes, our behavior follows the dictations of the endocrine system. Love, worship, depression, happiness, it's all an evolutionary con job.

siong1987• 17 years ago

He seems to forget to mention that YC is PG next startup after Viaweb.

Without referring to this point, the arguments in the second half of the article suddenly become less persuasive.

gcheong3• 17 years ago

His About Me page on his blog gives some insight into what he's looking for, or at least become, I think:

"My dream is to some day settle in a remote commune in Kenya and raise kids who will be pure in thought, word and deed, devoid of all the ills of modernity and westernization."

smidwap• 17 years ago

You are reading way too much into this blog post. I think much of the post's content can be treated somewhat humorously, e.g. he is using the Love, Hate, Love Again title as more of a metaphor than a description of his real feelings for PG. Some stuff might be a little extreme (like screaming "I Love you, PG!") but do you want to crucify (allusion to your use of JC) him for showing a little emotion? Plus it lightens the reading of the post. Imagine a bland person's post on his love, hate, love again relationship with PG: "His stuff excited me, then it didn't, then it did again." Lame.

I get the feeling from your very own comment that you are attempting to unfold a much grander thought of yours by taking this guy's blog post out of context. I won't question the premise that there are overly-obsesses fanatics out there, but not this guy. In the end, this guy is just another critic with a unique writing style. Kudos to him.

sho11• 17 years ago

Well, aren't we all trying to pull our thoughts together into some Grand Unified Theory? I wasn't "attempting to unfold" mine, I was just following a thread.

I actually regret writing what I did now, especially using the word "crazy". I sound judgemental and snarky. However, I don't think I misread the post as badly as you imply. I just read it again and still think the guy sounds dangerously fixated upon PG, the person, rather than maintaining an abstracted appreciation of his works. He even says it straight at the end:

"You’ve deeply influenced me in many ways and love you, hate you or love you again, you are on my list of Heroes!"

I never want to "crucify" anyone for opening their heart or showing a little emotion but if this is heartfelt, and it reads like it to me, he's going too far. Not in his writing but internally. It reads like he's looking for a Guru.

Maybe he is writing humourously (the old "it was satire!" defense?) but in the end words have meaning. He could be pretending to be a person with a dangerous tendency to fixate on 3rd parties or he could actually be that person, how can I, or anyone else, tell? Whatever - the person in whose voice that post is written, fictional or not, is not on the path to happiness with this type of thinking.

tipjoy• 17 years ago

Um, early April Fools joke? Oh and did you go to the homepage: http://www.gicleelife.com ? I'm laughing, anyway.

gcheong3• 17 years ago

Looks like you could add Tim Ferris to this guy's list of "heroes"?

jrnkntl• 17 years ago

Seriously, he broke up with his GF in an email?

time_management2• 17 years ago

He also posted her picture, which is (1) somewhat inapprpropriate, and (2) makes him look even dumber, because she's absolutely gorgeous, and it sounds like there was nothing wrong with the relationship.

If you have to dump a good relationship with a beautiful girl, you're doing it wrong.

latortuga• 17 years ago

Because her beauty is really all that matters in a relationship.

yan• 17 years ago

Reminds me of: http://daniellefong.com/2008/04/11/one-response-to-rejection...

People take this way too seriously.

simplegeek2• 17 years ago

>> PG says all you need is a copy of K&R and a Linux box

Did PG really say this ?

delano• 17 years ago

"[3] Learning to hack is a lot cheaper than business school, because you can do it mostly on your own. For the price of a Linux box, a copy of K&R, and a few hours of advice from your neighbor's fifteen year old son, you'll be well on your way."

-- http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html

simplegeek2• 17 years ago

Ah. Thank you.

akkartik• 17 years ago

Recent related thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=527064

philelly• 17 years ago

i think people are going a little overboard about this. it was a humorous essay, reflecting real events probably but told in an exaggerated style. (i do admit that the part about the dad and girlfriend pushed the humor into something a bit awkward.)

i thought his observations about paul's essays were pretty spot-on, and i'm surprised few people have mentioned this.

ssharp• 17 years ago

Wonderful satire!

ewjordan• 17 years ago

Damn...make sure you don't miss the breakup letter he sent to his ex-gf: http://www.gicleelife.com/email.php

My summary: You're kind of a pain in my ass and I can't waste time on your Emotions if I want to be a Success. Let's be friends, cya! ;D

I hate to judge people on their personal matters, but this was published and prominently linked, so it's fair game: that's some real cold stuff. I'm all for ambition and wanting to succeed, and it's true that I know nothing about the relationship (there may be plenty of other factors that change things), but to me it's still important to maintain some level of compassion and decency in your human interactions, especially outside of business - at least without context, the lack of tact and general bluntness seem to indicate a real sensitivity problem.

To me that's an entirely inappropriate way to end what you once considered a serious relationship, not to mention the inherent cruelty of an e-mail breakup, and the further salt-in-wound damage you inflict by posting the letter online...

Am I alone here?

YuriNiyazov• 17 years ago

I actually don't know why people knock on "You weren't meant to have a boss", even the original, stronger version.

My Love, Hate, Love Again, Affair with Paul Graham

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