The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/As-Freezing-Persons-Recollect-the-Snow--First-Chill--Then-Stupor--Then-the-Letting-Go.html?page=all

by BlackJack • 14 years ago

437 184 14 years ago

outsideonline.com

danso2• 14 years ago

FYI this is from Jan. 1997. I remember reading it in one of those "Best Sports/Nature/Science Writing" anthologies back in school...a great piece, obviously if I still recall it 15 years later

pixie_3• 14 years ago

What's amazing to me is Eskimos lived without fire.

dalke4• 14 years ago

Where did you get that information? The Inuit traditionally use a qulliq/kudlik (a lamp fueled by seal oil) for light, heat, etc. and everything I can find now says that it's not something introduced in the last couple of hundred years. For example,

http://books.google.se/books?id=G49CwQpozoUC&pg=PA29&...

says that Inuit were curious why people were hunting whales for oil for light, when they knew that seal oil was better for the qulliq.

Ahh, even better. The Dorset culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorset_culture - 500 BCE–1500 CE) used soapstone lamps very much like the the qulliq for heat.

pixie_3• 14 years ago

Can you find anything that says fire was a necessity for survival for paleo-eskimo cultures because I remember reading it wasn't, but I'm having trouble googling a source for or against it.

jbellis2• 14 years ago

Found an update on the toddler who froze in 1994: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2009/02/20/...

jstanley2• 14 years ago

This is an excellent read indeed.

bane3• 14 years ago

Just to tie this back to the tech industry and why relying on GPS only can be dangerous

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

jbellis2• 14 years ago

Did you read what you linked?

"Because of Mr. Kim's background as a technology analyst, observers speculated that the family had used online mapping to find their route. However, Mrs. Kim told state police that they had used a paper road map, an account supported by the Oregon State Police, which reported that the Kims had used an official State of Oregon highway map."

bane3• 14 years ago

No I didn't, I the original search for him and his family and the immediate aftermath that there was a great deal of discussion about them getting lost due to following a bad GPS route.

yock• 14 years ago

It's still relevant to the posted article, though perhaps not exactly for the reasons stated.

freehunter8• 14 years ago

Living in Michigan, this is one of my biggest fears. Due to the massive lakes that surround us, we frequently get a blast of warm, wet air that causes rain, and of course that warm wet air is being pushed off the lake by a cold front, causing high winds and sub-freezing temps. This combined with large stands of farmland and no trees for windrows means wind blows right across the road and freezes the rain instantly, sometimes right beneath your tires. What was wet a second ago is now frozen, and you can't see the difference. The snow starts to pile up, and a gust of wind pushes you right off the road and into an irrigation ditch. The best 4x4 in the world won't get you out now. And good luck using your cell phone: the areas where this is most likely to happen often have no cell service, or the cell service is only for Verizon phones (too bad you have AT&T, and the FCC forced them to sell off their overlapping network in that area). Four wheel drive won't help. Locking differentials won't help. All wheel drive won't help. All of these require even faintest bit of traction, and you don't have it.

People think I'm weird for having a CB radio in my truck, but last winter during an ice storm I went off the road. Literally all of the county's emergency crews were busy taking care of other ditch parties. I called out on my CB for the local off-roading enthusiasts, and 15 minutes later a snowmobile arrived with a winch. I paid $30 to the man for his help (though he insisted he didn't need payment), and I was back on the road. The CB cost me $250; how much would a tow truck have cost?

This article should be read by everyone who has to travel in winter conditions. Seems like every winter I hear the obituary on the news of people who go off the road and try to hoof it somewhere miles away in a normal winter jacket, jeans, and boots. I keep a snowmobile suit in my truck during the winter. One thing I would have added is something along the lines of "and you knew you couldn't stay in your car with the heat running waiting for help, you'd die from the exhaust fumes". I think that's more common than freezing to death.

staunch• 14 years ago

Get a winch?

freehunter8• 14 years ago

I've actually been saving up for a winch. I'd need to get a new bumper to hold a winch though, or mount a hitch to the front end.

46Bit• 14 years ago

Why would you die from fumes inside your car? Provided the air intakes and exhaust pipe were clear of snow, I was under the impression it wouldn't really build up.

30thElement2• 14 years ago

Assuming the exhaust pipe is clear isn't the best assumption when you're in a ditch in the middle of a blizzard. Even if the pipe is clear, rust from the all the salt on the road or damage from going into the ditch could easily put a hole in your exhaust.

astral303• 14 years ago

The conditions you describe are tough. Going off the road in an ice storm sucks. Love your CB and snow suit suggestions.

The following is not commentary on your situation, but tips to reduce chance of getting stuck:

1. I strongly recommend running a set of good snow tires, no matter whether you have an AWD Subaru or a 4x4 truck or a FWD Corolla. Yes, truck snow tires exist.

The reason is that the rubber compound is much much softer on these tires, and it stays soft when the temperatures drop. All-season tires are much harder in cold temperatures. The tread is also cut into much smaller blocks (known as siping), the edges of which help bite into the ice.

While ice is slippery no matter what, the difference in the grip level between a typical all season tire and a good snow tire is very significant. We are talking 3x the stopping distance. I've seen it on glare ice.

Now, if you really want to be protected, you must buy good studded snow tires. A set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7's will make ice seem almost like wet pavement. The amount of ice grip you have with those is unbelievable. The downside is the increased tire noise.

2. Practice controlling skids on ice or snow: practice countersteer, practice NOT hitting the brakes, practice using throttle.

If you can practice this to make it second nature, or at least not foreign, this can make the difference between you spinning and not.

Get out to a snowy parking lot, start turning, let off throttle, then yank the e-brake (and put it down right away). You should start experiencing a spin at this point. No matter what, train yourself to immediately countersteer, such that your front wheels are pointed to where you want the car to go and not where the car is facing.

Now, while countersteering every time, compare the following 3 situations after starting the spin:

A. Counterseteer & do nothing with brake or gas. Simply get your feet off the pedals.

B. Countersteer & hit the brakes.

C. Countersteer & apply gas.

You must actually experience each of these to believe it, but you will learn that it is "C", applying gas, which will get you back in line the soonest. You will notice that as soon as you give it gas, the spin will stop or slow down significantly. You will notice that if you hit the brakes, you spin much further than if you were to simply let go off all the controls.

This is counter-intuitive, but basically if you start spinning on ice on a straight road and you have a FWD/AWD car, applying some throttle will often stop your spin, whereas hitting the brakes almost guarantees a spin. It's worth practicing, if you can.

The reason has to do with weight transfer. Your car's traction at each end is determined by the amount of weight. When you accelerate, you decrease traction up front and you increase traction in the rear. Lifting off throttle increases front end traction and decreases rear end traction, a little. Hitting the brakes massively decreases rear end traction and massively increases front end bite.

freehunter8• 14 years ago

For truck snow tires, many times "reasonable" MT (mud terrain) or AT (all terrain) tires are also rated for snow. I say reasonable because MTs can get pretty extreme in their tread pattern, which will really hurt your stopping distance on ice. Extreme MTs have very little rubber touching the road. On my truck I have Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor tires, which are rated for on/off-road and extreme snow. I wouldn't recommend them as street tires, as they are loud and wear very quickly on pavement, but just as an example of truck "snow" tires, ATs and MTs often serve the same purpose as snow tires, as well as giving you a better ability to get back on the road if you've gone off in a muddy or rough area.

ATs wear quicker than all-seasons (~50,000 miles). MTs wear extremely quickly (~30,000 miles). Normal all-season tires generally wear at ~60,000 miles.

-edit- also, before buying studded tires, check to see if they're legal in your state/country, and make a note of the legality dates. Many times they're only legal from November through March (studded tires damage the road when the road is dry). Tire chains are temporary solutions, but are practically illegal in many states (can only be used if the chain never touches the road surface).

fest• 14 years ago

> you will learn that it is "C", applying gas, which will get

> you back in line the soonest. You will notice that as soon

> as you give it gas, the spin will stop or slow down

> significantly.

That only helps with more common, oversteer situations (when the rear wheels are skidding). On the contrary, if you're experiencing an understeer (front wheels are skidding) applying more gas will only make matters worse. You want the front wheels to regain traction, and there are two ways to do so- countersteering and do nothing with accelerator. A tiny little bit of braking may be neccessary.

All this advice is rarely useful when driving a car (except in places where temperature is below freezing point) but it's extremely important when riding a motorcycle on every kind of terrain.

Arelius2• 14 years ago

> The reason has to do with weight transfer. Your car's traction at each end is determined by the amount of weight. When you accelerate, you decrease traction up front and you increase traction in the rear. Lifting off throttle increases front end traction and decreases rear end traction, a little. Hitting the brakes massively decreases rear end traction and massively increases front end bite.

While this contributes to the effect, it's does not properly represent what's actually going on. Generally speaking, you want to perform action that normalizes the speed of the tires and the wheels, as you said, this is basically never breaking because wheels are good at slowing themselves down. If the slide is caused by slow tires, or if the tires have time to slow while the slide is happening (The most common case, and also the one that is caused by hitting the e-brake) Then indeed, as you said applying gas is the proper action. But compare this to a slide caused by wheel-spin due to too much gas, Any additional application of gas will just make the problem worse.

Having said that, if you do find yourself in a slide caused by too much gas, hitting the brakes will almost always make it worse, instead lightening up on the gas, and then slowly reapplying tends to be the most effective strategy.

nradov• 14 years ago

Edmunds did a quantitative test of snow tire performance for one common FWD car.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/tire-test-all-se...

hobbe80• 14 years ago

The recommendation to use snow tires on cars/trucks in these areas seems to me like a given. In Sweden it's mandatory to have "winter tires" (either studded or non-studded, but rated for snow - if you're not in the southern-most parts of Sweden, where there's actually rarely snow more than a couple of weeks per year, I'd say 90%+ have studded tires) - given the (I believe?) similar winter climate, I would have believed that even if it had not been mandated it would be common knowledge to use these tires in winter climate? How common is it to use winter rated tires in the northern parts of the US? Also, in order to get a drivers license here you need to complete a "winter driving course" (which you do in the summer using a contraption on the car that raises it somewhat, reducing the grip of the tires - it's a pretty good estimate on driving on an icy road) - is there a similar requirement to pass for a drivers license in the states where the road conditions are similar?

SoftwareMaven2• 14 years ago

Every year, as the snow hits, I "play" with the kids in the car in controlled circumstances. The points is to 1) re-awaken my skills and 2) give me a teaching opportunity with my kids. Dealing with an out of control situation in the ice is challenging enough when you are prepared. If you are constantly freaked out about the snow/ice, you are in big trouble when something unexpected happens.

It's also a lot of fun to deal with a car that is borderline out of control in a more controlled environment.

mobweb• 14 years ago

> no cell service, or the cell service is only for Verizon phones

I remember reading somewhere that emergency calls can use any network.

ak217• 14 years ago

The Verizon network is CDMA, which is incompatible with most other phones (GSM).

johnbellone2• 14 years ago

If you have a phone you can make an emergency call from it as long as there is service. The different networks have different frequencies and if your phone doesn't have the antenna its not going to work. This is more than just CDMA vs. GSM, although not sure about GPRS.

I was a big fan of the Android phones that had AM/FM radios awhile back. At least you'd be able to hear broadcasts to have a general idea of where the storm is heading. I grabbed one of those survival kits that have matches, a knife, first aid, etc.

freehunter8• 14 years ago

While emergency calls must be routed even if you don't subscribe to a plan with the carrier of your phone, I'm not sure it would get through if you only have a GSM radio in your phone and the only tower nearby is a CDMA tower. Someone might correct me on that. Regardless, it will keep you from calling someone nearby that may be able to help without needing to call for emergency services.

protomyth4• 14 years ago

Often, in a blizzard, the cell towers fail.

On a side not, at home, the local phone company tends to be pretty good at keeping the line going even when power fails. Last time, I got stuck 20 hours without power, the phone line worked the whole time. The cell towers did not.

bchallenor• 14 years ago

Have you considered carrying an EPIRB too?

bkanber• 14 years ago

This was terrifying, I think because of its sheer realism. Nobody expects they're going to die when they decide to get out of their car and trek to the cabin in the dead of night. But it sneaks up on you through a series of small mis-steps and you could pay with your life for those little mistakes.

Should've stayed with the car. Should've called for help. Once he got out, he should've stayed on the road instead of cutting through the woods. Should've ditched the skis once they broke. Should've exerted himself less.

Lots of little should-haves like those are what can kill someone who's not prepared for and experienced with harsh conditions.

debacle3• 14 years ago

Being cold and being deathly cold are two different things.

I've only gotten mild frostbite once, but I'd never want to have it again. The skin blackens and peels, and itches like nothing I've ever experienced before.

ghaff• 14 years ago

Frostbite and hypothermia are two different things and often happen under different conditions. As noted, you can get hypothermia in (relatively) mild temperatures if you're wet, tired, dehydrated, etc. Frostbite tends to be the result of colder temperatures often in conjunction with wind. But, yes, both are bad. I've also had fairly mild frostbite of the ear lobes (a pretty common place) and it's not fun. The thing to be aware of though is that it doesn't have to be especially cold to get hypothermic. In cold weather hiking, some of the conditions you need to be most careful in are 35 degree or so rain.

debacle3• 14 years ago

I've been lucky enough to never experience real hypothermia first hand.

TheCapn3• 14 years ago

Mild frostbite != blackened skin. I'm curious of what situation you got yourself into because that sounded fairly serious.

debacle3• 14 years ago

My pants got stolen while I was attending life guard classes. I had to walk home in ~30 degree weather in the snow in wet swim trunks.

I sometimes make bad decisions.

danso2• 14 years ago

This bit about how certain groups of people have somehow developed different responses to cold is fascinating:

Were you a Norwegian fisherman or Inuit hunter, both of whom frequently work gloveless in the cold, your chilled hands would open their surface capillaries periodically to allow surges of warm blood to pass into them and maintain their flexibility. This phenomenon, known as the hunter's response, can elevate a 35-degree skin temperature to 50 degrees within seven or eight minutes.

Other human adaptations to the cold are more mysterious. Tibetan Buddhist monks can raise the skin temperature of their hands and feet by 15 degrees through meditation. Australian aborigines, who once slept on the ground, unclothed, on near-freezing nights, would slip into a light hypothermic state, suppressing shivering until the rising sun rewarmed them.

You have no such defenses, having spent your days at a keyboard in a climate-controlled office. Only after about ten minutes of hard climbing, as your body temperature rises, does blood start seeping back into your fingers. Sweat trickles down your sternum and spine.

freehunter8• 14 years ago

You can notice this effect in your life as well. I don't know where you live, but I know here in the north, 40F is "freezing" cold in November for many people. And when March rolls around, 40F is cause for breaking out the t-shirts. Your body will adapt to the cold to a certain degree. I think I saw it explained on a reddit "ask science" post some time ago, but I cannot remember the physiological details of these temporary adaptations to climate patterns.

waterlesscloud• 14 years ago

I wonder if it's physical or at least partially psychological.

I live in Los Angeles and my brother lives in Flagstaff. Every year at the holidays, I go spend a week with him and his family. In Flagstaff there can be entire days below freezing and the nights can easily reach single digits F. When I'm there and it's 25 F, I'm fine. Toodle along like normal. Come back to LA and it's 50 and I shiver. Same outfits even. It's the strangest thing.

Maybe altitude? FLG is 7000 ft and LAX is more or less sea level. I dunno.

conroe64• 14 years ago

Here is a trick I learned biking around in cold Las Vegas nights to warm your hands. Squeeze whatever you are holding hard, (or make a fist and squueze) in pulses about a second apart. It will force the blood through, like a miniature heart, and your hands won't feel cold at all.

venomsnake• 14 years ago

That is an old trick while donating blood. It is good to see that it has alternative uses. Never thought of it that way.

bcbrown• 14 years ago

Another trick that I learned from my ski team was to do arm circles. The centripetal force forces blood into your extremities.

munin• 14 years ago

there's been some research into the Buddhist monk core/skin temperature regulation. apparently, you can train yourself to do this by using biofeedback, take a digital thermometer and a few hours a day and you can figure out how to raise your body temperature (I know people that have demonstrated this ability).

arohner• 14 years ago

This is a somewhat common phenomenon in the martial arts that practice Tai Chi/qigong/reki

I used to teach a martial art that practiced this. In our meditation, you visualize glowing energy flowing through your body into your hands. After several months, it happens fairly naturally. Among more experienced practitioners, the skin temperature difference is very noticeable.

When we practiced this, we conflated it with hitting harder, which anecdotally seems to be true, but I'm not sure why.

My teacher claimed that doing the meditation and slowly working your way up to hitting harder materials would increase bone density in your hands, though I have no proof of this.

I'd love to see more western science studying these phenomenon.

ef42• 14 years ago

I saw a talk from a US Army-funded researchers on cold weather adaptation. He described how to reliably train oneself to induce the "hunter's response".

You just go sit outside in the cold for five or ten minutes at a time while keeping your hands and/or feet submerged in insulated warm water. The goal is to expose most of your body to the cold while keeping the capillaries open. After about fifty repetitions of this (at three to six repetitions per day), your body gets used to the idea of maintaining circulation despite an overall cold environment.

FrojoS3• 14 years ago

As someone who does a lot of mountaineering, I'd be inclined to use this technique for my hands. But I'm a bit scared about risking to become hypothermic earlier. And I guess I would prefer to loos my toes then becoming severely hypothermic.

Though, I have recommended this technique several times to some female with very severe "cold hand" problems.

Btw: I think I've seen the same talk at MITOC Winter School. I forgot the name of the speaker but he was a great guy. (Quote: "If you can't bend them - that's a bad sign.") I think he speaks at MITOC every year.

Someone• 14 years ago

Extreme example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof (climbed Kilimanjaro, completed a marathon above the Polar circle, attempted to climb Everest, all dressed in nothing but shorts; claims that Tibetan meditation helps him)

FrojoS3• 14 years ago

Oh, wow - I had no idea! Thanks for pointing this out.

The scientific experiments with him are published now.

Kox et al, 2011 The Influence of Concentration/Meditation on Autonomic Nervous System Activity and the Innate Immune Response: A Case Study in Psychosomatic Medicine

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/74/5/489.short

arrrg• 14 years ago

Somehow this reminded me of this excellent story: http://www.signandsight.com/features/852.html

afandian• 14 years ago

I spent the whole article translating those temperatures into Centigrade. Kind of broke the flow.

corin_2• 14 years ago

Edit, ignore the following:

Worst was where they switched without even mentioning it. One paragraph they're still using F and said "The lowest recorded core temperature in a surviving adult is 60.8 degrees.", then the very next paragraph, with no talk of changing units, they talked about people dying "though temperatures never fell below freezing and ranged as high as 45". Just because the second story happened in England..?

Locke16892• 14 years ago

That's still 45 degrees Fahrenheit. They were talking about outside temperature, not core temperature.

I'm also questioning if you have a sense of either temperature scale. It's quite funny to think that it could reach 45 C in England at all, much less that people would freeze to death in it.

justincormack• 14 years ago

No worst was mentioning absolute zero in Fahrenheit...

UnFleshedOne2• 14 years ago

They do use kilocalorie that is defined with degrees of celsius though. It isn't as bad here, but unit mixing is extremely annoying in aviation books in canada. In the same chapter of "From The Ground Up" you can see nautical miles, statutory miles, multiples of thousands of feet for height (took me a while to realize a mile is not a multiple of 1000 feet, wtf?), degrees of celsius, pounds, kilograms, kilopascals, millimeters of mercury and so on. At least I haven't seen degrees of fahrenheit anywhere...

jablan• 14 years ago

Seriously, has anybody created a decent userscript or browser extension to fight this problem yet? I had no luck searching for one.

TheCapn3• 14 years ago

If you're quick at math here's a fairly accurate way:

F->C: Subtract 30, divide by 2.

C->F: Double it & Add 30.

Often known as the "Bob & Doug McKenzie method" from around here it makes for fast conversions since the actual conversion (°F - 32) * 5 / 9 = °C is close enough when dealing in the normal temperature range of weather.

shaydoc2• 14 years ago

That was a fantastic read. Incredible journey to hypothermia and back.

The description of the feeling of burning is unreal! What is even better is the incredible knowledge of how to revive a patient from this state.

I belief these techniques are used in heart bypass operations ?

sanotehu3• 14 years ago

Yes, they are indeed. As a medical student I had the privilege of seeing a heart valve being installed. They are a witness to how far medicine has progressed since the days of barber surgeons.

The blood is taken out of your body through the femoral vein (under the skin between your hip and your nether regions), taken through the perfusion machine and pumped back into the femoral artery. Because at this stage the heart will have been stopped, the high pressure in the femoral artery makes blood flow backwards up the aorta, where it supplies oxygenated blood from the machine to the whole body.

At one stage the flow has to be switched off in order to sew the metal valve onto the top of the aorta. In preparation for this, the blood leaving the perfusion machine is chilled (I'm not sure to what temperature). This slows the body's metabolism down and would cause hypothermic stupor if the patient had not already been under anaesthetic. I was told by the perfusionist that this gave the surgeons around an hour of extra operating time before the brain's oxygen content dropped to dangerous levels. All this is of course monitored by the anaesthetist and the perfusionist. The hypothermia will be reversed during the process of reviving the patient.

With the advent of endovascular procedures, this sort of surgery is becoming a rarity. It's much easier to pass a small tube up the aorta and inflate the narrowed artery from the inside than it is to open up the chest and sew a new blood vessel onto the heart. Of course, the medicine's more boring but it's all about getting a good outcome for the patient, isn't it?

gonzo2• 14 years ago

As a medical student you'll appreciate that I have a 3-4" stint replacing a section of my aorta, starting about 1mm away from the aortic root.

This to repair an ascending aortic dissection that terminates in my left iliac.

I walked out of the hospital, but the recovery was a PITA.

My core temp got down to 18C (65-66F) for over an hour. (According to the surgical notes I was on the heart lung machine for over 4 hours, and without perfusion for 45 minutes.)

shaydoc2• 14 years ago

Amazing, the knowledge acquired, distilled and shared to enable this is just wanted immense. My father had a major bypass op 6 years ago and I remember him saying how he felt when he first awoke after the surgery. He mentioned feeling cold!

billyjobob• 14 years ago

How old is this article? It seems to use the old Fahrenheit temperature scale. I'm sure my grandfather would understand those temperatures but for myself I had to convert each one into modern units. Eventually I couldn't be bothered and stopped reading.

Locke16892• 14 years ago

You know Fahrenheit is used by the entire United States, right?

dexter313• 14 years ago

Switch to metric system USA!

recursive2• 14 years ago

New Fahrenheit is the same as old Fahrenheit. In other words, it never changed.

lectrick4• 14 years ago

Unless you are joking, I think he was characterizing Fahrenheit itself as old, not saying there was a separate, "old Fahrenheit" scale.

bitwize• 14 years ago

Fahrenheit is old. Celsius is modern. The real avant-garde give all temperatures in kelvins...

lectrick4• 14 years ago

Frankly I'd rather use a system where 0 degrees is "fucking cold" and 100 degrees is "fucking hot", but neither fatally so, with 100 different steps in between.

mpyne• 14 years ago

Meh, I've stopped trying to ever argue stuff like this. There is simply a large class of people who will never believe in l10n if it involves en_US, only if it's any other country or region in the world.

jstanley2• 14 years ago

I didn't understand the temperatures either, and didn't even try to convert any.

The article is really well written and you'd be well-advised to read it despite your grievances with the units.

Mvandenbergh• 14 years ago

You could also mentally convert the temperatures, I can do it easily despite never having lived in a country where Fahrenheit is used.

actalavistababy• 14 years ago

I stopped reading once I saw "Fahrenheits". Fahrenheit and imperial system is what Microsoft is to software: non-compliance with internationally agreed standards.

recursive2• 14 years ago

Your loss.

bjhoops12• 14 years ago

Great use of the first person - this made me physically uncomfortable. Much more so than third would have.

aheilbut• 14 years ago

It's actually using the second person.

bjhoops12• 14 years ago

Haha doh. That would be what I meant.

samspot• 14 years ago

I also found this to be one of the most intense things I've ever read.

lectrick4• 14 years ago

Read this a while back but this passage:

"In 1980, 16 shipwrecked Danish fishermen were hauled to safety after an hour and a half in the frigid North Sea. They then walked across the deck of the rescue ship, stepped below for a hot drink, and dropped dead, all 16 of them."

Damn!

dalke4• 14 years ago

As far as I can tell, this is an urban legend. That is, several people have looked for an account of this in the Danish papers, and found nothing. Here's one such person's report: http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/15jz7b/til_in...

The closest match was to "Other classic examples of post-immersion collapse include the survivors of the SS Empire Howard (Lee, 1971). The Captain of the ship, Capt Downey, reported: "everyone was conscious when taken out of the water but many lost consciousness when taken into the warmth of the trawler. Nine (out of 12) died shortly after being rescued", where "The SS Empire Howard was sunk by a U-boat on 16, April, 1942.

dmor• 14 years ago

This topic makes me think of the Jack London story "To Build a Fire", which is one of my favorites. http://www.jacklondons.net/buildafire.html

Also timely, one of our power users at Referly just made a preparedness kit list for winter driving. I probably should have had some of this when driving alone in the Sierra Nevadas last month. http://refer.ly/winter_driving_preparedness_kit/c/789d5ae050...

tomrod2• 14 years ago

My thoughts exactly

username3• 14 years ago

This topic makes me think of 2012 American adventure drama film co-written and directed by Joe Carnahan and starring Liam Neeson, Frank Grillo, and Dermot Mulroney "The Grey", which is based on the short story Ghost Walker by Ian MacKenzie Jeffers, who also co-wrote the screenplay with Carnahan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grey_(film)

tomrod2• 14 years ago

A tip: http://lifehacker.com/5856986/use-your-floor-mats-for-tracti...

Always know your resources available!

gav• 14 years ago

I used to carry kitty litter in the trunk of my car when I lived in Vermont. Throwing a couple of handfuls under your tires would give enough traction to get going on ice.

TheCapn3• 14 years ago

Although that is sound advice in the event you're caught in a small rift of snow, it will mean nothing when hitting a ditch that sinks your car to the frame in snow which is often the case in situations that the story illustrates.

314l5926• 14 years ago

Have somebody used it, ever? I did, once. Tyres just throws mats under the car, without much movement. If there's no friction between tyres and ice, there would be not friction between mats and ice, either. However, it could help on the snow or sand.

Sam_Odio2• 14 years ago

I carry a PLB at all times in my vehicle [1]. In the US this device will summon rescue via satellite. I recommend it for anyone who spends time in remote areas. If you value your life at $1MM and there's a 1 in 3500 chance [2] that summoning emergency services in a remote area will save your life then this is a helpful risk-mitigating tool [3].

1. http://www.amazon.com/ACR-Electronics-ResQLink-Personal-Loca...

2. $280 / $1MM ~ 1/3500.

3. A useful metric might be 911 calls, of which there are 240 million in 2008[4], for the US population of 305 million. If you assume 5% of the calls are life-or-death, that your daily odds of needing to call in remote areas are the same as the country mean, that you spend 5 days a year in remote areas, and a 5-year useful life for the device, then there is a 0.2% chance the device will save your life.

240/310 * .05 * 5/365 * 5 ~ 0.002

4. http://www.911dispatch.com/info/fact_figures.html

dkarl• 14 years ago

I carry one of those when I go backpacking. The satellite transmission they send to summon rescue includes your GPS position, and they also serve as short-range beacons to help rescuers zero in on you when they get close. That can be crucial if the PLB can't get a GPS lock, because rescuers might only know that you're located somewhere along miles of road or trail. If you're unconscious and out of site a few yards from the trail, the beacon might be the only way for them to find you fast enough to help.

jzwinck• 14 years ago

Your statistics are seriously flawed. For example, your math in point 2 assumes you will certainly find yourself in a life threatening situation while carrying the device. And your point 3 probably vastly overestimates the fraction of life-or-death calls.

Sam_Odio2• 14 years ago

Your statistics are seriously flawed.

Actually, I think you a) misunderstood the claim in point 2, and b) take issue with the assumptions - not the math/statistics - in point 3.

your math in point 2 assumes you will certainly find yourself in a life threatening situation while carrying the device.

In point 2 the likelihood of a life threatening situation was not assumed or calculated (that's point 3). The conclusion, restated: If there's a 1/3500 chance you'll be able to effectively use the device to save your life, you're breaking even while mitigating risk.

And your point 3 probably vastly overestimates the fraction of life-or-death calls.

You've stated that I've made assumptions and you're right - which is why they're labeled as such. Feel free to suggest yours.

mberning• 14 years ago

I read this years ago and it really stuck with me. Now when I venture out into inclement weather I always load up the car with blankets, water, food, ratchet straps, and other emergency supplies.

andyl• 14 years ago

I teach search and rescue people how to travel on skis or snowshoes and live in winter mountains. If you are prepared, you can stay out in sub-zero for days and days very comfortably.

A key skill is constant regulation of your body temperature. You never want to become too hot/sweaty or too cold. If too cold - get into shelter, drink something hot, eat carbs, add clothes, move faster. If too hot - remove clothes, or move slower. Fix temperature problems immediately - never tough it out.

Common mistakes: people get distracted by gadgets, or they get impatient and start to wander. Then they lose awareness of their body temperature, and become hypothermic. Once you get hypothermic, things fall apart fast.

If you do winter travel in remote areas, carry warm clothes, water and food. Then if you get stuck, be patient and steady. Follow this advice, and the odds of freezing to death go way down! :-)

kaiuhl• 14 years ago

I agree with all of this advice.

The article describes one type of winter danger (extreme cold), but there's another equally dangerous condition it doesn't deal with — temperatures right around freezing.

A friend and I ended a snowcamping trip a day early yesterday because temperatures were ±32º morning and night. The result of the temperature staying just below or at freezing is that you get very wet. You get very wet just doing mundane tasks like shoveling snow because your body heat needs to shift the temperature of snow on your clothing by just a few degrees to melt. Being slightly unprepared for a night in these conditions is just as dangerous as being in the arctic (where you may be cold, but you'll definitely be dry).

smosher• 14 years ago

The one time I fount myself at risk of hypothermia was because I had overestimated the cold. I put on too many layers which kept me nice and warm. But exertion in that warmth caused me to break a sweat. By the time I got where I was going things were just bad enough to make me feel like I had learned a lesson.

ciupicri• 14 years ago

I can't say that I've been in extreme cold or dressed with lots of clothes, but I always undress in order to prevent (too much) sweat. Then I dress back as soon as I'm getting cold.

Hoff• 14 years ago

If you're out with others when it's cold, be aware of the "umbles":

Stumbles, fumbles, mumbles and grumbles.

These can be relatively early external signs of altered mentation and potentially of the on-set of hypothermia.

Hypothermia can occur even in fairly warm temperatures, too; you don't need freezing temperatures.

When carrying food, remember you're going to be eating a whole lot more when it's cold and you're exercising.

Avoid cotton clothing, as that gets and stays brutally cold when it gets wet. Wool or synthetics work much better.

samstave• 14 years ago

Never go out with Flint Fireforge. Got it.

rdl4• 14 years ago

Also: STAY WITH THE VEHICLE.

In general, if you're driving somewhere remote and something goes wrong, you're almost always better off staying with your vehicle vs. setting out on foot for help. There are obviously exceptions, but as a general thing, it's true.

MichaelApproved2• 14 years ago

That reminds me of the sad story of CNet editor James Kim. He got caught in a snow storm with his family. He left the car and died trying to get help. His family was rescued in good condition. Had he stayed with them, they all would have survived.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1028_3-6141498.html

InclinedPlane2• 14 years ago

I would probably be more likely than most to leave my vehicle but I have training in mountaineering and I wouldn't do so without a good plan and sufficient equipment. My car always holds a basic level of backup supplies including: a first aid kit, a bottle of water (which can also serve as a water container), a head-lamp with extra batteries, a multi-tool, matches, a fleece blanket, rain gear (including rain pants), mylar thermal blankets, and a simple drawstring backpack (which holds the blanket and rain gear) in blaze orange.

Even in a worst case scenario where I happened to drive up into the mountains in just jeans and a t-shirt and get caught in a snow storm and nobody knew where I had gone I could easily travel for several days through the back country (let alone alone the roads) with just that equipment. And if I stayed with my car it would definitely extend the amount of time I could survive until rescue arrived. The total cost of all of this stuff is almost nothing, it's worth it to be prepared.

001sky• 14 years ago

Lots of good points. Its also, perhaps counterintuitively, the case that wet and above freezing is almost more dangerous for hypothermia many times. Snow is a source of potential shelter and insulation, provided a minimum level of preparation. But, being un-prepared ans without shelter in cold rain is a very dangerous place to be. Your core only needs to get to 70 degrees to kill you, etc. So its all about the differential and exposure.

InclinedPlane2• 14 years ago

If you read the annual compilations of mountaineering accidents in North America you'll notice a few trends, generally people being under prepared and having insufficient basic equipment like lights, warm clothing, or rain gear. A common theme is people getting lost or poorly estimating time or getting caught by weather and then being forced to spend a night out on a mountain when they hadn't planned to. Generally, just being more knowledgeable and trained can help though also making sure you always bring those "ten essentials" also helps a great deal and they don't add much weight or hassle if you do it right.

andrewem• 14 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials

I just saw a list of the "ten essentials" posted at the entrance to a wilderness area in New Hampshire's White Mountains. I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit that I was without many of them, though it was on a day hike with a partner on a very wide, flat, heavily-traveled trail. I remember a spring backpacking trip in the Smoky Mountains where one person in my group fell into a creek we were crossing near nightfall as it was beginning to snow. Fortunately we had extra dry clothes ready at hand to give that person to change into.

starpilot• 14 years ago

An emergency blanket or bivy is extremely useful too and weighs very little. I just came back from spending a night in the snow (http://i.imgur.com/yc0cc.jpg sunset, Sequoia National Park, ~8,000 feet). At night, temps went down to the 20s (fahrenheit) I believe and I was shivering pretty bad in my sleeping bag until I took out my emergency blanket. In the morning, I cut it up and wrapped the pieces around my feet before putting on my boots, since I was still using soaking wet socks from the previous day (lost my extra pair somewhere on the trail). The mylar isn't breathable though so one has to watch out for perspiration.

rustynails• 14 years ago

Thank you for specifying Fahrenheit. Given there are different temperature scales used throughout the world, I always appreciate people who take the effort to clarify. Thanks ... Oh, awesome pic!!

dhughes• 14 years ago

Canadian here, a lot of people don't realize how dry winter is the humidity can be very low on a cold day probably comparable to a desert environment.

pdog• 14 years ago

Anyone else find the second-person narrative distracting?

funkaster2• 14 years ago

Some time ago, during the winter we went to visit the Atacama Desert with my wife (she was born there). We rented a small car and my wife told me "are you sure this will work at 4,000 meters high? (13,100 feet)" - we were going to be travelling around some small towns and one of the roads reached that altitude. Stupidly enough, I replied to her "sure... these are modern cars, with fuel injection and smart oxygenation".

The roads were covered with snow, and suddenly we got stuck in a snow-covered road. Being a firefighter (trained in rescue) I had some idea of what I had to do... but of course, no shovel or any other tool to remove the snow. For 1 hour or so I tried to remove the snow with no luck. I got into the car, told my wife that the smartest thing would be to stay in the car. If necessary, the fuel in the car would keep us worm for days.

After some time, a car came down the road and helped us out... only to get stucked again, this time because the car actually got de-oxygenated at exactly 4,000 meters... Luckily this time the same car was behind us for a few minutes and we could push the car until the downhill.

Now we tell the story with friends and laugh about it. But if you ever go to some place that you have a slight chance of getting stuck in the snow: pack a shovel or at least make sure you have the fuel tank full. And never get out of the car wandering to find something.

fastball• 14 years ago

> by Peter Stark

Apt.

cullenking• 14 years ago

One thing I have started doing when I go on any outdoor treks, even just a day of snowboarding, is carrying a portable amateur radio. I program in the local repeaters if there are some (not always an option depending on area) which greatly extends range if necessary. Not as good as a PLB in some ways, but superior in others. For example, I can call for help without bringing in the whole cavalry.

nwmcsween• 14 years ago

Great writing, the story was somewhat interesting but the writing was great.

jaequery• 14 years ago

good read, but more of a reddit material than a HN

krymise• 14 years ago

I had a philosophy professor who taught Existentialism, and he told us the story of how he almost froze to death while hiking . How he started to hallucinate that death himself had come to take him away. Eventually, he said he became calm and accepted his fate, and that freezing to death wasn't a bad way to go. Too bad he retired that semester, what an interesting guy.

CapitalistCartr• 14 years ago

I used to routinely go out in the bitter cold in Wyoming. Wearing lots of military-issue clothing. Dressed and behaving as the military recommended, I found -40 to be quite tolerable. Coming from Florida, without the military training, I'd have been dead.

domojesse• 14 years ago

This older (not that the article we were reading wasn't from 2002) article is very similar: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2001/mar/01/healthand...

phigcch• 14 years ago

It is actually quite amazing what it is possible to survive. The hypothermia "record", so to speak, was broken shortly after this article was written. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_B%C3%A5genholm http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/10/12/cheating.death.bage...

protomyth4• 14 years ago

Handy tip, best "snow shovel" for digging yourself out is a grain shovel. Keep one in your car in winter.

watt• 14 years ago

"You sweat, you die". That's what I have learned watching those survival shows (Survivorman, etc)

The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

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