Patio11 Wrote A Book On Conversion Optimization For Software Companies

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/12/21/i-wrote-a-book-on-conversion-optimization-for-software-companies/

by edw519 • 14 years ago

231 93 14 years ago

pc86• 14 years ago

I have no professional need for a book like this, but I enjoy Patrick's writings and have learned many things I can apply to my "real" work (internal BigCo applications). I may not buy this any time soon, but for anyone on the fence for whom this book is directly related to your work, buy it immediately and don't put it down until you're done.

obilgic• 14 years ago

So %80 percent of the content comes directly from his blog posts. Seems like he really likes conversion :)

jsaxton86• 14 years ago

I would assume patio11 doesn't intend to directly make a lot of money off of this book. Instead, he wants to be able to tell potential clients he has written a book on conversion optimization, which allows him to charge a higher rate.

barry-cotter• 14 years ago

He charges $X0,000 per week for his consulting services and has had more than modest success in doing outreach/education/marketing through his blog and participation here and on the SEOmoz and Business of Software boards. He's past the point where writing a book is the most remunerative use of his time.

patio114• 14 years ago

Honestly? Primarily non-economic reasons. (People asked me for it, the Hyperink guys seemed great, "published author" beats "owns a software company" in the McKenzie Family List of Approved Jobs, etc.)

It is possible that there are some markets and consultancies for which publishing a book would be a great credibility enhancer, but I sort of doubt I'm in one of them. I do something which is very quantifiable, with very few people available who do it, and which empirically produces absolutely stupid ROI some of the time. Books are not required to raise rates. (And, if I ran into a company that was unpersuaded by "I made $FIRM $X million in two weeks by running a series of A/B tests" but really responded to "... and I wrote a book!", I'd run screaming from that engagement, because that client sounds like they're going to be a lot more stress than my savvier clients.)

pknerd2• 14 years ago

Jealous??

yesimahuman• 14 years ago

Honestly, I'd pay just to have his posts nice and curated into a single book. My company bought his drip campaign classes and they were really great as well, so I'm looking forward to this.

mblake4• 14 years ago

To me it seems like he really likes to make the most of all advertising opportunities, be it direct or indirect.

Publishing this book was most likely seen as an advertising vehicle for his consulting services. I think it's a smart idea which will most likely net him a lot more money in the future that just book sales commission and will help further consolidate his name brand.

edw519• 14 years ago

Thank you, Patrick!

I don't know how many times I've read one of your Hacker News comments or blog posts and thought, "Wow, this guy really cuts to the chase." Then I bookmark it but never return.

I'm hoping that this is kinda like a "Best of Patio11", giving busy people like me a chance to have it all in one place on my hard disk. If so, $9.99 is a bargain.

Downloaded, up to Page 14 of 136. I guess dinner will be late tonight.

wildmXranat• 14 years ago

And thanks for posting it here man. Also, just so you know, I spent some major time reading your 'best-of' http://edweissman.com/53640595. There are plenty of gems over there .

xiaoma3• 14 years ago

I really have to say that books (fiction or non-fiction) are one of the best values that exist.

For the same money that you would spend seeing a movie that will be over in two hours, you can purchase a novel that will provide more hours of enjoyment, more depth, and the option to return at any time.

For a fraction of the money you could spend on a scammy info product that constantly upsells you and pushes you to promote the author (via fb likes, tweets, etc), you can have the result of months or years of effort from one of the greatest minds in history.

I'm sure Patrick doesn't need any help selling his products here, but I'll say it anyway-- books are an incredible value, especially from someone like him who has shared so much before and from whom you have an idea what you'll be getting! Buy it.

I'm totally broke and could still easily justify this kind of purchase -- skip one trip to Chipotle and it's paid for!

snogglethorpe• 14 years ago

At the prices I normally pay, a book is about 1/4 the cost of a movie... (~$4-5 for a book, ~$18 for a movie)

I read slowly, so the value ratio is something incredible... :]

patio114• 14 years ago

So I feel sort of morally obligated to comment here and yet don't want to sell my book, so instead, can I sell Hyperink? They were fantastic to work with, and successfully convinced me on why I should try publishing through them rather than trying to e.g. go through a traditional publisher or even one of the smarter tech-specific presses.

I've been asked to write a book for a few years by potential readers, and a few times by potential publishers, but I was very disinterested in doing so. For most people capable of writing tech books, writing books is a very poor use of time under any economic calculus. The typical model is that you and the publisher agree to do the book, then you're paid an advance (sometimes in installments contingent on milestones). You earn a royalty on each sale of the book, with the royalties first going to pay back ("earn out") the advance, and then being paid to you quarterly.

This sounds reasonable, until you hear the numbers (typical advance for a tech book from a first time author: $5k, typical royalty percentage: 8% on a physical copy, 15% on an ebook). They're not universally that bad -- an author or two from Apress and Pragmatic Programmer wrote me to say they were genuinely happy with their experiences -- but that's sort of the general flavor of things.

If you do the math, it is highly unlikely your book will recoup the advance, and that is indeed what happens to most tech books. So you've traded months of full-time labor writing and rewriting, plus additional months of part-time work hawking the book to anyone who will listen, in return for $5k. That is not a rational use of time for anybody who can e.g. do contract programming, which (one would assume) virtually all tech book writers could do.

When I said as much to publishers who asked me to write things, they said "Ahh, but the book will allow you to establish your bona fides", and I do not believe that making stupid decisions for my business successfully demonstrates to clients that I will make smart decisions for theirs. To my view of things, I'd rather have lots of folks be able to read my writing than have it blessed by a gatekeeper but widely unavailable.

But blog posts do leave a lot to be desired for teaching people. For one, my blog is very disorganized, since I have six years of back-issues which appear in order of "what I was working on that week", and they're of varying quality and relevance, particularly early in my career. Something with a bit of structure and curation seemed like it would add value. Plus, I am spelling- and design-challenged, so having an editor and someone with a sense of style would be a plus.

That's basically what Hyperink pitched: curating the best of the blog into a book, complete with editing and design help, with some extra essays added. It's far less work than scratch-writing a book, the terms are more equitable (no advance, equitable royalty split), and it provides incremental value to readers over the blog.

I don't expect to make a huge amount of money on it, relative to the business in general, but the idea sounded attractive enough to try it as an experiment.

xiaoma3• 14 years ago

I'm about 80% finished writing the ebook I emailed you about a few months ago and was planning to launch it with in the next few weeks from my own site as a PDF, but your praise of Hyperink intrigues me. Especially the help on the design and editing side would be a huge asset.

After going to their site and clicking on the link for bloggers, it presented me with a form asking my email and URL and then said they'd follow up when they were ready. Any ballpark idea how that process works?

Also, were the new blog posts your idea? I've actually written in quite a bit more depth for the book than I did on the blog. I definitely do want to earn money out of it, but as long as I'm doing it, it's worth doing it properly.

mblake4• 14 years ago

Off the top of my head, I think https://leanpub.com/ is similar to Hyperink. I think if you do a bit of Google digging you can find stories from authors who decided to self-publish with specifics analysis of their process (what they used, how much time it took, revenue analysis etc.)

I think the new blog posts that were added to the book serve as an incentive to buy it, probably a lot of the HN users were already familiar with Patrick and might've needed a little 'push' to click on the purchase button :) Just one of the possible reasons.

biot• 14 years ago

On the spelling front: "... never-before-seen tails of abysmal failure". Is that the long tail of abysmal failure? Or should it be tale? :)

napoleond• 14 years ago

This ebook sells itself. I'm so glad you/Hyperink finally put it together!

pjungwir• 14 years ago

As someone thinking about writing an e-book, I appreciate the recommendation of Hyperink. I was approached by Packt a while back, but I found at least one author who had had bad experiences with them. The financial incentives are already so bad, why go with a publisher that will treat you poorly?

> I am spelling-challenged

Indeed: "tails of abysmal failure." (Or was that a joke? :-)

EDIT: Forgot to mention how much I appreciate all the time you've spent to help fellow techie entrepreneurs. Happy holidays to you.

frankdenbow• 14 years ago

Instant purchase. Worth it to have all in one place. Thanks for all that you put into the community!

teej• 14 years ago

I think you're not giving authorship enough credit. Being an author under a well-known publisher gives credibility, shows competence, and may confer the "expert" title.

Considering the other ways to this path take years (working ones way up the corporate ladder), money (a university degree) or risk (launching a startup), losing a few months and earning 5k may be worth it. I'd imagine this publisher validation is built in to the price you are paid.

I have a few personal friends who have written tech books and it is a large part of what helped them leapfrog their peers in job position and compensation.

beambot• 14 years ago

You are both right... Patrick is already an expert. He doesn't need vindication from a publisher, which is probably why he was approached by so many. For a lesser-known name in the field, getting "published" might be a sound strategy.

tptacek4• 14 years ago

This is indeed the pitch that publishers use to get subject matter experts to write books. But as Patrick keeps saying, if you're in a position to successfully pitch yourself as a subject matter expert for a book, you can make the same pitch for something more lucrative.

For the amount of effort that goes into writing a book, the deal major publishers get from authors borders on predatory. I have a lot of friends who have written books, and I'm not sure any of them really benefited from it.

StavrosK• 14 years ago

I haven't heard of hyperlink, but I love leanpub.com. Looks like there are a few companies doing the same thing.

MartinCron• 14 years ago

Thank you for sharing the experience of the blog-to-book transformation, it's an idea that I've been interested in for a while. Good to know that Hyperink worked so well for you.

ramses0• 14 years ago

I know it's lame, but is it available in paper format? It seems strange to leave money on the table even if they were to charge $50 instead of $10?

mctx2• 14 years ago

I'm with Robert here - I don't own an eBook reader and don't enjoy reading off computers nearly as much as paper. Is the best option to buy a PDF and get it printed and bound at a local print shop?

jamesbritt• 14 years ago

Thanks for these details, and I expect you'll do well with the book. Aside from Kyperink, what other self-pub options did you consider?

rmason• 14 years ago

I was one of those who suggested that you write a book and you curtly dismissed the whole idea.

Very glad the folks at Hyperink were much more persuasive and good luck with it;<).

unreal37• 14 years ago

Congrats on your book. I'll definitely buy it.

Having written a few books myself through the traditional publishing process, I agree that you'll likely never earn back the royalty and the $/hr rate is minimum wage. That said, I have landed more than a few jobs by giving a copy of my book to the interviewer to start the interview. Real paper books published by big name publishers still impress a lot of people, including my mom.

graeme• 14 years ago

I agree that writing a book is likely not worth it for you.

But, it's somewhat more lucrative than you describe. Self-publishing has opened the doors to much higher royalties, and the stigma has vanished.

I self-published with Createspace, amazon's publishing arm. I get 43% of revenue (not profits) as a royalty. Printing costs are covered from amazon's portion. If I had a Kindle version, I would keep 70%.

Here's what the book looks like: http://www.amazon.com/Hacking-LSAT-Explanations-Official-Dia...

I am comfortable posting here as I expect exactly zero people on HN would need to buy it, it's pretty niche.

Design + proofing costs were around $500. Reviews were easy to get from advance readers.

I've found a tangible benefit from being able to show this page to people in my industry. The learning curve to produce it wasn't very high.

Anyone with a pre-existing following shouldn't have trouble marketing a book. It may be worth many people's time to write one book both as a passive income project and as a credibility indicator. The royalties are great if you get any kind of volume.

davidw• 14 years ago

If I may reluctantly hijack patio11's reluctant self promotion,the production costs for an eBook are even less:

www.LiberWriter.com

Although editing is still, of course, highly recommended.

buro9• 14 years ago

> That's basically what Hyperink pitched: curating the best of the blog into a book, complete with editing and design help, with some extra essays added. It's far less work than scratch-writing a book, the terms are more equitable (no advance, equitable royalty split), and it provides incremental value to readers over the blog.

> I don't expect to make a huge amount of money on it, relative to the business in general, but the idea sounded attractive enough to try it as an experiment

I find this a strange thing to say.

A book is a way in which to earn additional income from content you've already produced.

Why not have the content you produce pay over and over?

Once on the blog.

The second time on the blog as a best-of-the-blog.

The third time in a book.

The fourth time as presentations at conferences.

One piece of content, earning revenue many times over. It seems to me that the book isn't supposed to earn a huge amount of money, you already spent the time creating the content and relative to the time to compile and edit the book should earn a tidy income.

And, as you are patio11 and have a great standing, the book can only further enhance your reputation and achieve higher sales, and increase your value to conferences later.

Whether or not you yet appreciate it, you are one of the few programmers who has the status equivalent to a celebrity chef, and you should seek to earn additional revenue through recycling the same content through different channels. You should, because you're one of the very few who could. For you, not writing a book is money left on the table.

jgeralnik2• 14 years ago

Unless you make less money writing the book than you would consulting.

Yes, the content is already produced. But putting it all together in a book format still takes time. You need to go over old articles, choose the ones to go in, edit and rewrite where necessary, figure out what order to put things in, add new content, deal with the publisher, figure out typesetting things, etc.

If that process takes him two weeks and earns him $5k but his consulting rate is $5k per week then writing the book costs him $5k in potential income. In that case, writing the book is actually leaving money on the table.

SnootyMonkey2• 14 years ago

I believe Hyperlink did a good job for you but what a horrible, horrible name for a company.

Given your word of mouth recommendation here (w/o a link) how am I too find them with such a generic word that's so closely tied to their industry? Search for "hyperlink publishing", "hyperlink ebook"? Yeah, good luck with that!

Companies should not chose a generic name for their company that's already widely used in that market. Apple Computer... that's good. Apple Orchards... not good. Hyperlink? Come on.

So... anyone got the link?

mkuhn• 14 years ago

Its Hyperink not HyperLink

http://www.hyperink.com

thehodge• 14 years ago

I think it's hyperink not Hyperlink

SnootyMonkey2• 14 years ago

Ah... that makes more sense then. Hyperink is unique. Funny how the brain turns the word into what you expect, Hyperlink rather than what it was. I wonder if HyperInk would be less prone to that.

larrys5• 14 years ago

Patrick - I went to hyperink.com, saw your book under "new", clicked thorough, saw the price of 9.99 with 100% refund (wondered what's up with that). Then saw I could see a sample chapter, was prompted for a "10 second survey" (did that out of curiosity and answered 1 question probably would have been better for them to simply say "answer 1 question"?) then got to what appeared to be the preface that wasn't anything exciting or unique or showed the "content". Saw at the bottom "people who read this article also read..." and clicked on "SEO for Software Companies" which simply said "this is a rough outline of my verbal remarks" and then followed with a brief biography and then prompted me to "complete 10 second survey" (again).

At this point I'm ready to abandon the shopping cart. Just thought I'd pass this along I realize that this is hyperink's doing (and I like the graphics and look of the site) but this is ironic given the messages that you are trying to give and what you are writing about (I think..)

larrys5• 14 years ago

"and successfully convinced me on why I should try publishing through them rather than trying to e.g. go through a traditional publisher or even one of the smarter tech-specific presses"

I'm really interested in knowing what they did to sell you on that. What hot buttons they pushed.

mblake4• 14 years ago

One of the main reasons why I bought your book is the fact that it is well-organized and free of the usual 'extras' that one finds in a blog that in the end distracts from the reading experience.

I've almost finished reading it and I can pretty much guarantee that it would've taken me a lot more time to navigate through your blog and make myself read beginning to end.

thoughtcriminal• 14 years ago

Honest price, not $100 and bundled with some garbage videos I don't even want, like I've seen around here.

Thanks Patrick, for not pricing it to squeeze every single penny you can from me. It's an easy sale.

patio114• 14 years ago

You're entitled to not buy anything you feel like, but I'm strongly of the opinion that all arms-length prices are honest prices.

The economics of producing things for businesses are very different than the economics of producing them for individuals, particularly because businesses are relatively price insensitive and not very numerous. I can price this at $10 because it receives implicit subsidy from everything else I do.

If making businesses money through training was my livelihood and not a fun hobby, I would certainly explore packaging options and price points that made sense even if I only sold a few hundred copies. (And, n.b., if you were a SaaS company trying to buy advice on lifecycle emails from me that would run $500 to $X0,000. There aren't enough customers in that niche to make $7 a sale sane. Also, seen from the customer's perspective, the information will routinely be used to make five to six figures)

I respect that this can make commerce difficult for goods which are dual-use between for-profit businesses and hobbyists, at least for folks whose purchase would be more aspirational in nature. As somebody who started out as a hobbyist with a $60 budget, I have great appreciation for expensive business tools not being in the budget, but wouldn't cast aspersions on them simply because they're not in the budget. Many worthwhile things like e.g. employees are similarly not in the budget, and the answer is probably "Do without and bootstrap until you can afford them" rather than worrying overmuch about the pricing structure of businesses other than one's own.

xiaoma3• 14 years ago

>I'm strongly of the opinion that all arms-length prices are honest prices.

As I understand it, "arms-length" prices just mean "the price at which two unrelated and non-desperate parties would agree to a transaction". And, obviously factors such as the presence of manipulation, coercion, informational asymmetry and variance between the product and the promises of its marketing have an effect on how "honest" a price is.

Selling a car for $50k that we both know is crap is different from selling one that I know but haven't told you is crap is different from selling one through very persuasive and reassuring marketing and removing all liability through legalease incomprehensible to the customer. Selling a luxury car as a risky investment plan to a non-savvy retiree would be still worse, and selling a car with safety flaws would be downright reprehensible, even if both parties agreed on the price.

People of different cultures and political leanings draw the line in different places, but it's certainly not a simple black and white rule that anything you can get someone to agree to buy is ethical at any price. There's spectrum that goes from saintly and honest to illegal and evil.

My definition of an honest price: an honest attempt to provide at least as much value as you extract. (which the B2B business examples you listed above would be doing)

sjs382• 14 years ago

Do you get a bigger cut if I buy via Amazon Kindle or buy a .mobi (which Kindle supports) via Hyperink?

patio114• 14 years ago

Good question. Not sure. It must be the case that Hyperink gets a higher cut if Amazon is not in the equation, so to the extent that you want to do someone a solid I'd suggest buying from them directly (they're a startup, too), but whatever works for you.

ig12• 14 years ago

Don't seem to be able to buy it on Amazon:

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2cofv3o.jpg

kroger2• 14 years ago

Why an ebook is available in Brazil (where I am) and not in UK is beyond my understanding.

WA2• 14 years ago

See the green box on the right? You're in the wrong Amazon shop. Go to amazon.co.uk and search for his book there. This works at least on amazon.de (same green info box in the US-store).

ig12• 14 years ago

Odd, I thought that might be the case and I clicked on the green box and it just took me to Amazon's UK homepage so I just assumed it was just a generic "would you like to shop at Amazon UK" link rather than something related to the availability of the item in question.

But if I search Amazon UK for the title it comes up correctly and I can buy it.

Pretty poor UX really.

smoyer• 14 years ago

I don't really need this book for my current job, but will probably buy it simply as a way to pay Patrick for all the valuable and free content he's provided over the past 5+ years.

azazo• 14 years ago

I'm pretty confident that I'll get significant value out of this book for my current job, but I also agree with this sentiment. For all of the value that I have received from Patrick's posts, comments, podcasts, etc. over the years this is the least I can do. Buying it now.

typicalrunt2• 14 years ago

@patio11: Stupid question time, and this may be from hyperink more than you. You state:

You can buy it here (Kindle, iPad, Nook, PDF) or on Amazon (Kindle).

Does that mean I would get an ePub version? Device-specific is great for non-technical people, but I have a Kobo (ePub/PDF) and it's not in the list, so I'm not sure what formats I'm being given (Hyperink's FAQ doesn't answer this either).

nekopa• 14 years ago

The nook format is usually ePub.

typicalrunt2• 14 years ago

Funny enough, I searched the Wikipedia entry on the Nook and there's no mention of "format" so I figured it was proprietary.

Thanks.

kroger2• 14 years ago

Check the "technical" tab on the FAQ page: http://www.hyperink.com/faq

It has an entry: "How do I get my .epub eBook onto my iPad?"

ruswick• 14 years ago

Although I'm generally hesitant to purchase books, this appears to be a fairly interesting product. I'd likely buy it immediately were I in an economic position to do so. Unfortunately, I'm simply unable to justify such an expenditure...

mctx2• 14 years ago

Can I buy it for you?

danielpal• 14 years ago

I met patio11 at TwilioCon, and just chatting less that 20 minutes with him I learned a ton.

Needless to say, I just bought the book.

dwnoble• 14 years ago

Congrats on the book, Patrick! I think that is a feat that a lot of hacker news readers hope to accomplish one day. I know I fall in that category.

Anyway, I really appreciate the earnest care you took in talking about the book in this linked-to post. You didn't publish "20 blog posts" in the book. You published "20 essays that appeared in your blog." Now I haven't read all of your blog. And for a few parts of a second, reading the word "essays" (instead of "blog posts") made me think you had some kind of book-marketer coach this enunciation. But, I have read enough of your blog where I think I know what you mean. I have definitely made posts in my own blog because I have felt it's been too long and I have needed to make a post. But, on the other hand, I have also had a teensy-handful of posts because I had something itching at the back of my head that needed to come out. Maybe I would call these essays. I would definitely try to distinguish them in my mind from just another "blog post."

mzarate06• 14 years ago

I'd suggest actually having a working product, this book doesn’t cover product development...

Excellent! Having researched what it'd be like to build a product before having done so, I found so much emphasis on the development side ... building, launching, iterating, etc. I didn't find a whole lot that covered marketing, sales, and conversion. W/my product launched and getting good reviews from those that use it, I have every intention of using 2013 to focus on it's growth and conversion.

So this turns out to be such a timely offering. Thank you for offering this up at a great price, and for recommending Hyperink (I have a deep interest in writing an ebook in 2013, I'll check them out).

jbail• 14 years ago

The book looks great. Just bought it on Kindle and started reading. It immediately gets down to business. I like that.

pknerd2• 14 years ago

@Patio11 A dumb but important question. Is this book about latest buzz, "Growth Hacking" or Market Research(Finding a Niche/Market) for your next product by using available tools?

Please clarify.

danhodgins• 14 years ago

Can't wait to apply these insights Patrick. Keep up the teaching/sharing - your material is fantastic.

gingerlime• 14 years ago

Just bought the book.

This is more of a comment about Hyperink: It looks like a really nice platform, and seems like they do good marketing too. The only confusing part with the purchase process initially was that they only show iPad and PDF highlighted as available formats. Nook and Kindle look greyed-out (??). I was just hoping to get an ePub, so wasn't sure if I'll get one. Eventually it gave me a much clearer list of options to download from: pdf, epub and mobi.

Why not simply showing those options with the same terminology in the first place??

hayksaakian• 14 years ago

Would someone mind finding and turning the posts in the table of contents he posted into links? I'll do it tomorrow if no one does it before then.

kybernetyk• 14 years ago

Patrick, don't get it the wrong way: I love your blog and podcast and bought your book. But ...

if you're so good with marketing software why don't you market your software but go the consulting route instead? Isn't there more potential profit in selling your products than offering your services as a consultant?

That's something I've been asking myself for some time.

jgeralnik2• 14 years ago

He does market his software, and practices everything he preaches on his own software too. But let's look at some numbers.

Let's say that Patrick's techniques can increase profits by 10% compared to an "unoptimized" website. If the bingo card business is worth $X0,000, by selling his own products on optimized webpages Patrick makes an extra $X,000.

If instead Patrick consults for a company that does $X0,000,000 his techniques are now worth $X,000,000. If he gets a percentage of those new profits, he is doing much better than if he had sold more of his own product.

Since creating a business which does $X0,000,000 in sales is hard, Patrick can make better use of his time by finding those existing companies and offering his services that by selling more of his (comparatively low value) product himself.

mblake4• 14 years ago

Bought yesterday and almost finished reading.

Although I could've read almost all of it through the blog (except for the few new articles), I find it much more comfortable to have everything compiled into a single file; pure content without other distractions.

I just started dabbling into software marketing and would much rather take advice from Patrick than general-level marketing advice.

The book (I used the pdf version) is pretty well typeset, so reading it is not headache-inducing (for the ppl worrying they might not enjoy it and would rather wait for a printed version).

Patio11 Wrote A Book On Conversion Optimization For Software Companies

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