Apple kills a Kickstarter project

http://venturebeat.com/2012/12/20/apple-kills-a-kickstarter-project-portable-power-project-pop-refunding-139170-to-backers

by lambtron • 14 years ago

177 194 14 years ago

venturebeat.com

sftueni• 14 years ago

Not quite convinced by the argument that 'Apple killed' it. IMHO it's always dangerous to go for one plug design; given how those plugs evolved over time (Think USB, micro USB, mini USB for Android, etc.). I quickly amassed in my drawer a plethora of unusable chargers. Only the Apple port had the longest lifetime across multiple devices. I would say, the kickstarter idea could use it as an opportunity to redesign an initial flaw of - an otherwise nice charging station ?

JohnTHaller5• 14 years ago

They can't. The point of it was to be a charging station that could charge everything. Apple's updated more-anti-competitive license changes make this impossible by forbidding anything from having a lightning connector in conjunction with any other connector. It's basically Apple forcing 3rd parties to make docks, speakers, etc that ONLY work with new Apple products and won't support anything else.

joeyo• 14 years ago

They could have simply provided a standard USB-A port. Trying to put all possible connectors on the thing sounds like a fools errand, regardless of Apple's stance.

snogglethorpe3• 14 years ago

Wait, why does Apple even have the power to do this...?

It's a connector... Why on earth is it possible to patent a connector that doesn't involve any particular innovation (take wires, rearrange a bit, tweak shell shape) in the first place...?!?

mullingitover• 14 years ago

This would've been a better product if it just had a general-purpose retraction mechanism and let you bring your own cables. Apple may have been jerks, but they could've designed around it and made a better product instead of just throwing up their hands.

JoshTriplett• 14 years ago

Why not just continue the project with a few other connector types, and separately make an adapter for Apple's connector (authorized or otherwise), or recommend an existing something-to-Apple-connector cable?

nostromo• 14 years ago

Why didn't they didn't just include a female usb port?

Edit: I'm skeptical about their motive. It seems they are using this as a press event to announce their KickStarter competitor ChristieStreet.

notthetup2• 14 years ago

They seem to have 2 female USB connectors already. They could have just changed the 2 30pin connectors to USB as well. Or have 4 USB + 2 Lightning..

Not sure if they're also supporting the extended dock connector functionality, and hence had to keep the 30pin connector.. but I agree that it seems like a press grab..

jlgreco9• 14 years ago

> Apple has refused to give the project permission to license the Lightning charger in a device that includes multiple charging options.

> In fact, even combining Apple’s new Lighting connector with the old 30-pin connector in a charging device was verboten

Emphasis my own. That doesn't read like combining Lighting with the 30-pin was the only issue, but rather the particularly egregious seeming issue. I'm reading that as Apple would not allow Lighting and USB either.

rprasad• 14 years ago

Apple refuses to license any product which combines the Lightning connector with any older Apple connector. Thus, buyers would have had to use the 30-pin to USB (or USB to Lightning connector, which is apparently not available in the US?). Either way, this was not the product that they Kickstarted. They decided to do the right thing, by returning the Kickstarter money. The company behind the Kickstart is contemplating whether to have a new kickstarter that would feature Apple connectivity by way of the usb-to-apple connectors (rather than through dedicated connectors like they have/had in the current version).

marshray14• 14 years ago

I think their mistake was Kickstarting something for "Apple iPhones, Apple iPads, Apple iPods, other Apple devices, (and oh yeah some of those other things that make up the majority of the world's rechargable devices too)".

It's just plain unwise to make business promises to deliver interoperability with proprietary interfaces without having your agreements in place first.

As a side note, I'm quite disappointed that we as a technological society can no longer implement basic means of supplying low-voltage DC power for a users' own devices.

ricardobeat5• 14 years ago

You get a usb-to-lightning cable with any new iOS device, that's what you would use with it. By just providing a female usb port, bring-your-own-cables, they wouldn't need licensing from Apple at all.

d4m0• 14 years ago

This. Why bother with all of the cables? Normal usage would surely be one or two only. Having 4 female USB ports seems like a sensible option.

Or am I missing something?

CervezaPorFavor• 14 years ago

Part of their pitch is that you don't have to carry your cables around (they did include 2 USB ports at the base just in case).

But I guess their mistake is pitching this as an iDevice charger from the start (see their video; very heavy focus on iDevices). And when they couldn't include a lightning connector, it became a deal breaker.

yellowbkpk2• 14 years ago

I'm asking them the same question. I backed this as an android user looking to charge my power hungry devices. The iPhone compatibility was secondary for sure. I was willing to be patient while they figured out the lightning plug thing and am extremely disappointed that they're cancelling (and siphoning all the money through their startup) instead of releasing a product.

abraham• 14 years ago

> siphoning all the money through their startup

Their refunding the money.

Moto7451• 14 years ago

I'm a bit skeptical as well. The alternatives to giving up seem too obvious. Perhaps they didn't crunch the numbers right and were going to take a bath on the building them. Assuming its really just a problem they had with Apple, I don't see why they didn't provide a poll asking their customers what the their preference was (refund or design change). If nothing else, just bundle a lightning cable with the device.

Having a plain USB port or two would be handy anyways as there are still plenty of proprietary USB cables in the wild (GPSes, oddball electronics, older electronics, iPod shuffles).

anigbrowl• 14 years ago

The specs had changed. Under Kickstarter's TOS, they have to refund.

gregcohn2• 14 years ago

Is this true? That would make a lot more sense.

neltnerb• 14 years ago

I agree. This seems like a problem with a trivial solution. My bet is that they decided that they wouldn't make enough money on the project to make it really worth their time. Blaming apple may be justified since it is a stupid policy, but I'd just as well have a system that just has four USB ports that I can plug whatever I like into.

kunil• 14 years ago

I thought you can't charge apple devices with different usb devices? I have an apple tablet at my work and my pc does not charge it, I have to use my friend's mac.

lloeki• 14 years ago

Per spec USB2 output max 500mA per port. This is enough to charge an iPad when it's asleep, but as soon as the screen is on it will stop charging to power itself.

The wall charger and Macs include a non-standard trick (a resistor on the data pins in the wall charger, probably some active negotiation on Macs) to output up to two full amps.

Higher charge rates are part of the USB3 spec, but this would require both devices to implement it, and I don't know if it's even a mandatory part of the spec.

So, plug your iPad on a PC and it will charge, just slower, and only when sleeping.

whiskers• 14 years ago

You'll probably find that it does trickle charge (though doesn't own up to it), but just barely.

Your PC likely isn't delivering enough current via USB to charge an iPad. (I think it needs a 1A supply and the USB spec only requires 500mA or something like that).

publicfig• 14 years ago

I really fail to see how opening the options to which plugs would be supported by just offering a USB Type-A adapter and providing some cables or having the user supply their own is "compromising" their product, unless it makes them too similar to products that are already on the market and have been for a while. I think this is more a failure of execution than it is Apple "killing" the project.

jasonlotito• 14 years ago

The same way that opening the options to which plugs can be supported by a product compromises Apple.

jlgreco9• 14 years ago

It is an issue of not being able to provide the product that people have given their money for.

If I were in their position, and my priority was operating ethically not successfully, I would refund all the money as they have done, then start again, pitching an only USB product.

jinushaun• 14 years ago

Sucks for them, but can't they make the thing a USB hub? BYOC. Who do I need their cable? USB-A ports are more practical. If I have an Android, why would I want iPhone chargers?

OriginalSyn• 14 years ago

Maybe you have friends, family or loved ones that use iphones that may be at your home that want to charge their phones? No. Then this product isn't for you. I personally am in love with a woman that comes from a family of mac users, perhaps you can understand my dismay when I stayed at her brother's house for two days and he didn't have a single MicroUSB cable and he's a tech geek/developer with 3 computers (MBP, Mac Pro and Mac Air), 2 tablets (Ipad 1 & 2) and 2 (i)phones. I've never expected that someone could have so many tech devices and not have a billion usb cables like most of my tech friends do.

Then there is the fact that I'm competing with my old lady for plugins for our phone cables. We live in an extremely old house and the amount of plugins are limited as is the amount they can be extended.

readme2• 14 years ago

This is why I don't understand why so many hackers these days like to use apple products.

Apple is the antithesis of the hacker ideal. They're just as bad as Microsoft.

I mean, seriously. Have you ever been to a radioshack? Multi-charging devices are a common product. Yet apple will have none of it. It's clearly an anti-competitive measure aimed at making sure they're your only supplier.

Furthermore, apple's chargers suck. They deliberately have a weaker rubber sleeve around the end of laptop charger cables because it looks aesthetically nice. It's been proven that it's weaker than the conventional rubber joints on most laptop chargers, but they don't change it, because they value aesthetics over functionality.

Avoid if possible.

/me realizes he's using an ipod shuffle. oh well.

ntaylor• 14 years ago

"just as bad as Microsoft"

RyanMcGreal• 14 years ago

Apple is far more closed and tyrannical with its products and its users than Microsoft ever was.

joenathan• 14 years ago

>just as bad as Microsoft

You have to be joking, Microsoft is way more hacker friendly than Apple. Try to build your own OSX PC and you can't because Apple won't sell you a license, Apple started the whole walled garden game with the iOS.

shmerl• 14 years ago

Not if you compare their stance on open standards in general. They are both bad and acting nasty with using lock-in in different forms.

eridius2• 14 years ago

Well, yes. Microsoft is a software company. They're happy to sell you the software to run on any device. Apple is a hardware company. If you want to run their software on a non-Apple piece of hardware, you're not their customer. In fact, in the early 90's when Apple did allow for Mac clones to be built, that almost killed the company.

readme2• 14 years ago

I agree actually. I should have said 'than microsoft was'. They really are a lot better.

pbiggar• 14 years ago

Its because they make very high quality products. I changed over after being sick of my linux laptop never connecting to wifi, and the full-disk encryption on ubuntu never working. It took some getting used to, but Macs are really great products that are great to work with and write code with.

saraid216• 14 years ago

Speaking as an MBP user, they're shiny.

That's it.

eropple15• 14 years ago

This is why I don't understand why so many hackers these days like to use apple products.

Avoid if possible.

That's the thing. I can't. Because I want a computer I don't hate. There's nobody else who makes a machine I want to spend 8+ hours a day working and playing on.

There are some PC manufacturers where I can get some of what I want, but I've yet to see one where I can get all of it--I like Lenovo's build quality and aesthetic, for example, but their laptops are universally underspecced for what I want (if your only GPU is Intel, you are not getting my money) and I can't get a Retina display, which I now consider mandatory, anywhere else. And, while we're at it, if you're significantly heavier than my rMBP and don't provide at least competitive battery life, you're out too. I carry around enough crap as it is.

Worse, there are no operating systems other than OS X that fulfill my needs of a pleasant-to-use Unix/Linux system--certainly no Linux distribution comes close on the "pleasant-to-use" part; I'd rather use Windows 7 and Cygwin than any Linux desktop I've been subjected to in the last five years.

For me it's the same as it was with iOS--until Android 4.0 there was simply no worthy competition to iOS as far as I was concerned, but 4.x is fantastic and I switched over because it gave me the environment I don't hate plus the ability to mess around and customize it to my liking. But the first part is more important. If there was a Linux distribution with Apple levels of attention to detail and a modicum of taste--and that doesn't mean "looks like OS X", something different could be fine so long as it was designed for human beings instead of neckbeards and was uncompromising in its attention to detail--I'd probably be there. There isn't (and very well may never be), so I'm not.

Kerrick2• 14 years ago

> Worse, there are no operating systems other than OS X that fulfill my needs of a pleasant-to-use Unix/Linux system--certainly no Linux distribution comes close on the "pleasant-to-use" part

There is one. It's currently in beta, but it's a Linux distribution that wrote its own Human Interface Guidelines, wrote its own suite of default applications that conform to that HIG, and is firmly devoted to the desktop/laptop paradigm instead of the touchscreen/tablet up-and-comers. It's elementary. http://elementaryos.org/

jarcoal• 14 years ago

"Stuck with Apple" has been the story of my computing life.

If another company can come along and provide a similar experience, I'll move over, but at this point no one is even close.

w1ntermute8• 14 years ago

> Worse, there are no operating systems other than OS X that fulfill my needs of a pleasant-to-use Unix/Linux system--certainly no Linux distribution comes close on the "pleasant-to-use" part; I'd rather use Windows 7 and Cygwin than any Linux desktop I've been subjected to in the last five years.

Sounds to me like this is just a matter of what you're used to. From my experience, OS X's UI is the last thing anyone would want if they weren't used to it. The window management is pretty damn horrible. OTOH, Linux has a variety of window managers with many innovative paradigms.

> I like Lenovo's build quality and aesthetic, for example, but their laptops are universally underspecced for what I want (if your only GPU is Intel, you are not getting my money) and I can't get a Retina display, which I now consider mandatory, anywhere else.

I don't know what you're doing with your machine that makes Lenovo machines underspecced, but for web and Android development, the ThinkPad X1 Carbon fits the bill. I wrote about it here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4848375

If you want discrete graphics, that is available in other models, such as the T series, IIRC. However, for anything other than gaming or video editing, integrated graphics really is enough. I personally prefer not having discrete graphics, as it keeps me from playing games.

The only thing missing is retina support, but you have the advantage of a lighter and thinner laptop than the MBP. It's no different from the MBA in that respect, with the added advantage of a 14" screen in the same body size as the 13" Air.

Taylorious2• 14 years ago

I have lots of CS friends who say the same thing. However, they never seem to be that aware of the options that are out there. Getting a PC doesn't mean you have to get a Dell or an HP, there are lots of options out there. Lenovo makes some great stuff, but so does Sager/Clevo, MSI, Asus, etc. For what Macs cost you are not very good hardware (with the exception of the new screens).

While we are at it, why do people try and find devices that are as close to a Mac in appearance as they can get? Personally I don't mind having a 3mm thicker laptop if it means I can have a more powerful graphics card, be able to work on it, or have multiple HDDs. Most people who really use their laptop for coding are sitting at a desk using it 90% of the time anyway. And for god sake am I sick of brushed aluminum. I find it ironic that a platform that so many artists use has the most boring appliance like look possible.

Also, what is the obsession with OSX? It's just a more limited version of Linux with a bad window manager. I have a Sager laptop and multiple major Linux distros I have tried all work flawlessly out of the box, even with discreet graphics. I still use Windows 7 most of the time though, but that's just because its the best OS available (at least for me).

Wow that came off a lot more ranty than reply-like than I wanted.

drivebyacct26• 14 years ago

>certainly no Linux distribution comes close on the "pleasant-to-use" part;

What have you tried recently? I spent an hour installing Ubuntu and running a script to get the power management tweaks on my MBA and it's far better than OS X was.

Since Leopard I've been fighting OS X more and more. It gets in my way, it makes things unnecessarily hard, I'm tired of having to fuck (sorry, but it's an accurate expression of how much time I've wasted) with homebrew and macports.

On the other hand, I installed Elementary OS Beta and tweaked the fonts and was perfectly happy with the out-of-box experience.

cbs• 14 years ago

But don't you see? I have an emotional bond with my tools.

That's healthy, right?

Apocryphon2• 14 years ago

Pretty sure hardcore Linux and Windows fans have a bond with their tools, too. It's just usually it would be in software and not hardware.

eropple15• 14 years ago

You don't have an emotional bond with good, well-crafted tools? They don't make you happy to be using them?

I do. It's why I consciously pay a premium for a Mac. It's why I pay for Photoshop. It's why I pay money for IntelliJ when Eclipse is free. They're good tools that make me better at doing things I want to do and they make me happier because I'm using them.

prodigal_erik• 14 years ago

For me using tools is the only sacrament. It's tinkering and improving and learning from them that makes me human, besides keeping me from starving in a cave somewhere. Contempt for tools would have been an unimaginable luxury just a few generations ago, and I'm disturbed to see it steadily emerging here.

jlgreco9• 14 years ago

People forget what a company that is friendly to hackers is like.. if indeed they ever knew in the first place. They see "Oh, it's a UNIX?" and think that is the end of the story, the best you could possibly ask for.

eropple15• 14 years ago

I don't think anyone thinks that. I think that for many developers it's a balance between a solid platform to write code for and a user interface that appeals to them. I flat-out won't go back to a Linux desktop environment until one demonstrates as much basic give-a-shit for building a great computer experience as Apple does. That's as important to me as being "friendly to hackers" because I have to live in front of it every single day.

Suan• 14 years ago

A big thing for me are the Macbook trackpads (and the standalone magic trackpads). They're just so awesome to use and no other manufacturer's comes close to Apple's.

MBCook2• 14 years ago

In the last year I've gotten practically addicted to my Magic Trackpad. I've been using gestures on my MBP for a few years, but when I got the trackpad for my iMac at work last year and stated using it full time... wow.

If I want to play a game, I'll use a mouse. Same with drawing (or I'd get a tablet). But my my daily work of programming, surfing, email, etc the trackpad works great.

But the thing that has me addicted are the gestures. Three finger swipe left or right to go forward/back in Safari, IntelliJ, Mail, and every where else. Four fingers up to trigger Expose to show all my windows. Expand all fingers to show the desktop. Pinch-to-zoom is one I don't use much, but when you want to look at a larger version of a screenshot on a web page it comes in handy.

It seems like such a little thing, but I'm lost without the back/forward gestures. They are second nature to me now, and when I use someone else's computer I'm constantly frustrated by not being able to do it.

I'm sure there are gestures in other OSes at this point. Two-finger scrolling was an instant hit with me. After trying it, the PC laptop solution (special scroll areas on the trackpad) just seemed so pathetic. Two finger right-click was great. I'm still consistently surprised to see relatively new PCs with small trackpads. My boss has a 17" Alienware he bought last year, and it has a much smaller trackpad than the 5" pad on my 15" MBP.

Apple's trackpads are an amazing feature.

krickle• 14 years ago

I completely agree. You cannot put your own software on it and if you have one you're forced to take an extra set of cables when you vacation, and you need to baby those cables because adding protective sleeves to the ends "isn't the right design" but a new one is priced like they are made from gold.

ricardobeat5• 14 years ago

My macbook is nearing 3 years of age. The 'weaker' rubber sleeve in the charger is still good, same goes for four other Apple mobile chargers and headphones. Meanwhile another laptop I have has basically crumbled into pieces after 4 years. The screen is blotched, burnt, uneven, the keyboard is failing. It heats up like a toaster. Power brick had to be replaced a couple years ago.

So no, that's not a good argument to avoid Apple.

waxjar• 14 years ago

I don't think it's just aesthetics, they ask a lot of money for a new charger. And because they conveniently chose to use a patented charger thingy nobody else is allowed to make, you're going to pay them that bundle of money.

I'm convinced Apple designs their products to break quickly, especially components that are not covered by warranty (e.g. cables, chargers, earphones, etc). Those inexpensive components render the whole thing pretty much unusable, so you're forced to buy a replacement. It pisses me off.

Yet, if I were to buy a new laptop, I'd probably buy a MacBook. They're just so damn nice to use.

smsm42• 14 years ago

No, it's not as bad as Microsoft. The software is actually reasonably fine, it has its warts, especially when Apple gave their incessant mania to reinvent the wheel to run free, but OS X provides reasonably comfortable environment. If you stay out of iOS prison-like ecosystem, Apple's software solutions are reasonably hacker-friendly, I think.

The hardware is not that bad functionally too, in many aspects better than the competition, but there are much more things that suck. Primary of it being connections to outside world. There's still no proper docking solution for Macs, which is just shameful. Power connectors universally suck through all recent Apple hardware. Macbooks power sucks, iPod power sucks, iPhone power sucks. One can't help but think it's done deliberately. And on top of that they don't even agree to be charged from any USB, some just don't work, no idea why. I'd say "worse than Microsoft", but as Microsoft doesn't make any comparable hardware, Apple is left in a class of itself, without peer to be compared to.

rimantas3• 14 years ago

  > Apple is the antithesis of the hacker ideal.

Not for me. I want a nice, reliable machine with unix underneath and a sane GUI on top so I can just open it and hack away. My Mac gives me exactly that. Long gone are days when I used to look at Linux boot screen flying by and felt being a hacker because of that.

tibbon• 14 years ago

Wasn't there an EU ruling a few years ago saying that cell phones needed to start using micro-usb connectors? How is Apple getting around that, and still selling phones in the EU with proprietary plugs?

blazingice• 14 years ago

They released an adapter:

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD099ZM/A/apple-iphone-mic...

Apparently these are quite difficult to buy in the United States.

Edit: Lightning to Micro-USB is only $20, though: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD820ZM/A/lightning-to-mic...

devb• 14 years ago

Only $20? Are there even any voltage modifiers in it, or is it just a pin to pin mapper?

mortenjorck• 14 years ago

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD820ZM/A/lightning-to-mic...

Apparently one of the following is true:

* The EU ruling doesn't mention charging extra for an adapter

* Apple will send you one free if you bought your iPhone in the EU

eridius2• 14 years ago

I believe in the EU Apple provides a MicroUSB adaptor.

beggi• 14 years ago

Regardless of this particular issue, can anybody explain Apple's stance on this? Why are they forbidding Lightning connectors on products alongside other types of connectors?

marshray14• 14 years ago

Although the simple explanation is "Apple is greedy and wants to milk their users with overpriced charging cords" I think the real explanation is more complex.

Apple wants to control every aspect of how its users experience the products that they think of as "Apple". When Apple sells a charger and charging cord, they want it to be a charging experience worthy of the Apple name. I know it sounds ridiculous, but this is how they think.

Every consumer eventually ends up with a big tangle of chargers and adapters. The kind of thing where you unplug it and tug on the cord and the FCC-mandated RF balun is a big lump and the cord gets stuck and you have to crawl under your desk to retrieve it. Most of us live with that kind of thing every day and most normal people hate it.

In short, Apple wants its users to experience its products as a refreshingly simple and clean salvation from modern electronic hell. The existence of a single cable that mixes the new connector with the old connector is seen to tarnish that user experience.

gst• 14 years ago

All the other things except iPhones almost universally charge via MicroUSB now. It's hard to end upwith a "big tangle of chargers and adapters" when all you need is a MicroUSB cable.

josteink5• 14 years ago

Although the simple explanation is "Apple is greedy and wants to milk their users with overpriced charging cords" I think the real explanation is more complex.

Occam's razor says that everything you wrote after this paragraph is wrong.

taligent• 14 years ago

Pretty simple actually.

To stop people damaging their phone. I bought one of those iPhone 5 docks off eBay and threw it away immediately after it started to scratch the pins on the phone.

slajax2• 14 years ago

Nothing like calling Apple a bunch of a-holes in the press to make you look super professional. Siminoff sounds like a whiny baby who got mad and flipped the risk board. At least all the backers are getting their money back.

JimmaDaRustla• 14 years ago

I don't blame him for dealing with his grief. He has a right to be completely "pissed", and he has to be very emotional because he cared so much for this project, he worked so hard...and he probably had some passion for Apple...and then this life changing opportunity is denied by the "totalitarian" Apple.

Edit: It's like salt in a would...made of salt.

woah• 14 years ago

Are you trying to say that Apple are not a bunch of A-Holes? Clearly this is a ridiculously false belief on your behalf.

marshray14• 14 years ago

"We are pissed," Edison Junior CEO Jamie Siminoff told me on the phone today. "I think they are being a bunch of assholes, and I think they’re hurting their customers."

He was direct, didn't mince words, and yet he distinguishes between his opinion and absolute truth ("I think" x2).

This man's stature has gained in my view.

slajax2• 14 years ago

Oh c'mon! When you build a product that is completely dependent on buy in from a independent third party you need to account for the risk and shouldn't be surprised if they exercise their right to not accommodate you. At very least it's not excusable to call them aholes because you got emotional about something that is so painfully probable. Apple owes him nothing and judging by his reaction they probably made the right choice. I certainly wouldn't want to associate my brand with that behaviour.

andrewfelix• 14 years ago

I'm speculating here. But other than the ChristieStreet motives people are throwing around, it might also have been prohibitively expensive to get a 26,000Mha battery into the device at that price point.

marcosdumay• 14 years ago

26,000mAh

Please, those letters have meaning. You can't just replace them at will.

marshray14• 14 years ago

26 Ah

Edit: Note that this figure is meaningless for discussing energy storage capacity without also specifying a voltage.

fpgeek• 14 years ago

I found this quote from the project's letter about the situation impressive:

"Providing full refunds means we will have to absorb a hit for both credit card (3%) and Kickstarter fees (5%) totaling over $11,000. Today we asked Kickstarter for the 5% fee they collected based on the circumstances, however regardless of their decision YOU WILL RECEIVE 100% OF YOUR MONEY BACK."

I'm sure plenty of people wouldn't have had a problem if they'd passed along the various fees. After all, Kickstarters are still speculative projects that can fail even after funding. Eating whatever fees they can't get refunded is seriously going above and beyond to make things right for their backers in a difficult situation.

lytfyre• 14 years ago

Interestingly, the idapt dock I use seems to be have a lightning compatible tip.[1] Wonder how they pulled it off.

[1] http://www.idaptweb.com/interchangeable_tips/charger/tp/ligh...

veemjeem8• 14 years ago

Apple has a program called MFi, usually you're supposed to get a MFi license if you make hardware for the ipod/iphone family. Since idapt doesn't list MFi anywhere, I'm guessing that they don't license it, and they aren't popular enough for Apple to sue yet. You don't have to ask Apple if you're just going to violate the license anyway... as long as you're small, Apple probably won't care. I think these guys tried to do the "right" thing.

I'm sure there are a few dozen chinese companies that violate all kinds of licenses that nobody really cares about. There's this chinese company that makes an iPhone knockoff that is actually called "iPhone" -- saw on the streets of Hong Kong. How do you think they do it?

hamey• 14 years ago

Something seems off about this whole thing.

tonetheman• 14 years ago

It was a good idea I think, just apple being apple.

Daring Fireball will spin it so that Apple looks great or write a poetic post on how Lightening connectors will solve world hunger.

MBCook2• 14 years ago

It's not a bad idea, I can see how it would be very useful for some people.

The thing I'm having a problem with is they must have seen this coming. Everyone knows Apple is a control freak. This was entirely foreseeable, and getting the requirements from Apple shouldn't have been due diligence. At a minimum, they should have planned for this possibility from the get-go.

joering2• 14 years ago

all the way on the bottom:

Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. [...]

oh, irony!

jsiminoff• 14 years ago

Just want to add some points to this thread as I am the inventor of POP.

For those who question our motives, your reasoning is fair but let me clarify some things.

We started Christie Street because of our our experiences with POP. We have been getting closer and closer to this decision since Apple announced Lightning and began its new rules on the adapter. While we were going back and forth and waiting to see if we could still build POP we realized that we did not have a good way of refunding to our customers. That is why on Christie Street we built a automated refund system for our inventors. So when we finally realized that POP just could not be made to what we promised, we wanted to use our platform to do the refunds as it would be easier for us to manage. Also it would allow us to test and tweak the system with real customers. We are all trying to build better companies/products and looking at a loss on POP this seemed like a good way to at least salvage something out of it while delivering a above average experience to our customers, I would call that a win-win.

Lots of people also seem to want POP even without Lightning and our upset that we did not poll our customers to see if a USB only version. But they are missing the point, we said in our campaign that we would support the iPhone 5 and at the time had no reason to believe that would be impossible. Why would we have thought that they would sell the new adapter any different then the old 30 pin?

We are not willing to compromise on the product or deliver something that was not as promised. If that brings skeptics, so be it but at the end of the day today I know that we are doing the right thing, not the easy thing but the right thing.

julien_p• 14 years ago

> Why would we have thought that they would sell the new adapter any different then the old 30 pin?

Before the new connector was announced there were rumours that licensing for it would be more restrictive. Also notice how you can't license MagSafe at all.

I'm not saying Apple's decision is the right one, but IMHO it was clear there was a risk regarding licensing.

monochromatic• 14 years ago

What does it even mean for Apple to license this connector? Do they have a patent on it? It's just a fucking plug. Or are they just refusing to let these folks use some trademark to mark their product?

veemjeem8• 14 years ago

I think most of the lightning cables actually have a chip inside, like thunderbolt. It may look like a simple cable, but there's some electronic stuff inside.

josteink5• 14 years ago

What does it even mean for Apple to license this connector?

Apple built DRM into it. You cannot work with it without Apple giving you the keys first.

Yes. Apple managed to sell the iFanboys a proprietary, DRMed USB-connector and make them believe they were getting something better than everyone else.

If that make Apple geniuses or Apple's customers retardec is your call.

gregcohn2• 14 years ago

I applaud Jamie and the POP team for going for it -- everyone who develops on a proprietary platform like Apple's (apps, hardware, whatever) faces this risk. It's a risk you have to take if you want a shot at success.

Sometimes it doesn't work out.

mrchess• 14 years ago

When life gives you lemons make lemonade.

    1. Apple rejected the cable. To those who say "just go USB", it was
       supposed to be a seamless product and that destroys aesthetics. 
       Image is everything in product design.
 
    2. In parallel they were working on Christie Street, to solve the 
       issue of non-refunds on Kickstarter.

    3. So why not turn something bad into something good? Get some press 
       for their new site, and also issue refunds for everyone. How else 
       would they issue refunds? And how does anyone lose in this situation?

If anything, this seems like a great and fair way to deal with the issues at hand.

olgeni• 14 years ago

> "Apple would not approve"

To think that in 2012 we still have to worry about things like this...

ghostnappa• 14 years ago

So I'm looking at my monoprice external battery pack. It says specifically that it works for iPod,iPhone, and iPad. Is the problem that they built in the cables into the device instead of just outputting to a usb hub with specifically defined output rates?

Apple kills a Kickstarter project

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