Show HN: I built a thing

http://www.boxcarsurgery.com/2012/11/03/i-built-a-thing.html

by zacharydanger • 14 years ago

242 102 14 years ago

boxcarsurgery.com

barefoot• 14 years ago

Ha, I had an idea to build a product around this (and related services) the other day.

sushantsharma• 14 years ago

How much is the price after 30 day trial is over? You may want to put up that price somewhere on the site.

sidcool• 14 years ago

It feel so good to read "I built a thing"

giberson• 14 years ago

Phonestub - when you need a local phone number you dont need.

guynamedloren• 14 years ago

Using technology to solve a personal pain point. Not a huge problem, but a problem nonetheless, and now your life is a little bit better. I like it. It's stuff like this that really makes me appreciate the power of coding.

ipince• 14 years ago

I need this, thank you! How do you get the local phone number? won't I have to pay for it anyway?

joshmlewis2• 14 years ago

I believe there a few services that allow you a free phone number, for example, Google Voice.

mikeevans• 14 years ago

Twilio/Tropo, or something similar probably.

lambtron• 14 years ago

Very cool thing. I would include a summary on the use case on the questionsthree website or a short paragraph describing what exactly it is. The only reason I had some idea of what it was, is due to the blog post that directed me there.

Just some information (also, pricing) to provide before asking for people to give away their emails.

Cool thing, though!

zacharydanger4• 14 years ago

Whoops. I'll definitely add the pricing to the home page. It's 10$/month or 100$/year.

For the longest time, the homepage was Rails' index.html. It was so hard for me to bang out those few paragraphs.

AlexeyMK• 14 years ago

If the best alternative to using your app is a free Google Voice number in your area code (and not $20/month to Time Warner), I don't think $10/month is something I would pay. I'd either find a way to make the pricing work, or (as suggested above) find a way to sell to apartment complexes at large.

joshmlewis2• 14 years ago

So this isn't a problem where I live, they actually let you use any number, (my cell, landline, etc) and it does the dial and press 9 thing.

However, I am renting out my apartment to people and they would sometimes forget the gate key or whatever, and I'd get a call literally once or twice a day all to just press 9. I could see this being useful.

tmchow• 14 years ago

This is great! I have the exact same problem with my apartment building needing not just a local number but one with the same area code as the building (so an area code in a neighboring city 10 mins away wouldn't work).

I ended up getting a google voice number to solve the issue which then simultaneously rings both me and my wife. However, I love your PIN idea and the "automatically let anyone in during a set time period" approach.

dglassan• 14 years ago

You shouldn't be marketing this towards consumers. If you and your friend had this problem with the apartment gate then I'm sure more people at your apartment have to deal with it also. Why don't you talk to your apartment complex and see if they'd be interested to use it as a service for their tenants?

You should be marketing this towards apartment complex properties, not consumers living in apartment complexes.

zacharydanger4• 14 years ago

I thought about that as a next step, but I really don't know where to start. Talk to the manager of my leasing office? Try to find an in to the company who owns this property (and probably several others)?

cpayne• 14 years ago

Welcome to the land of Sales! That's how it works - just start calling people. If they say they aren't the person to talk to, ask who is?

- What's your price point? - How quick can you install it? - Can this be demo'd elsewhere?

ssebro4• 14 years ago

It's usually easier to sell to someone who's experiencing a pain than it is to an upstream provider. In other words, if it was a big enough issue that you built something to fix it, and your apartment complex hasn't fixed it themselves, you probably aren't going to suddenly convince them to buy in (since they don't see the pain, or don't care).

Sell pain killers to people in pain.

ssebro4• 14 years ago

Actually, I take some of this back. If the upstream provider can make significant profits by selling this as an add on, then you're in business.

lftl• 14 years ago

It's more work, but you can convince the upstream provider that their customer's pain is actually causing them pain.

I would try to find a larger complex to use as a case study. Set everything up for free for them, and check their retention rate before and after the install. 1 month less of an empty apartment probably pays for your product, and if you're anything over that it's a no-brainer from the complex owner's perspective.

xlance• 14 years ago

Or even better, the distributor of the system itself.

ssebro4• 14 years ago

If you try to sell this to the distributor, either they'll clone it, buy it outright or ignore it.

antidoh• 14 years ago

Management/owners have no motivation on their own to install this. They have already satisfied their insurance company by having a locked gate, any kind of locked gate. It's a plus that they can put in their consumer ads. And that's it. They have no pain.

Individuals have the pain.

Total guess, if you can get enough individuals to like it for free or cheap, then the hue and cry may motivate a manager somewhere to subscribe for $WORTHWHILE.

Or you might sell it to the lock companies.

cglace• 14 years ago

I build something like this a year ago but never did anything with it. . .

bjeanes2• 14 years ago

ditto. I should just open source my github repo now anyway...

hugi• 14 years ago

Very cool. Still I wonder, why don't these gates accept non-local area codes, seems like a design flaw.

zacharydanger4• 14 years ago

Cheap property managers holding onto the concept of "long-distance" phone calls I'd assume.

krzyk• 14 years ago

That's strange, of all the places in the world I wouldn't suspect that US have a higher price for calling non-local cells/phones (and even has such thing as a long-distance call). Here were I live the long/short distance have the same price for about 15 years now). I know that Poland is small in comparison to the US, but I don't see a point in charging more for longer distance (one could just average the price).

varikin• 14 years ago

I don't know if it is a price thing (except phone companies long ago charged for long distance, and hate giving up that fee).

I think the real problem is that these gate systems at apartment complexes setup to only handle 7 digits. It was install in the 70s or 80s when our state when our part of the state had only 1 area code (leading 3 digits). Now, we have several. When we dropped our land line, we found that the door buzzer system could only call the 763 area code, but our cell phones use 651.

Zak• 14 years ago

Most landlines, of which a significant number are VOIP do not charge per call or per minute to any number in the US. There is a flat monthly fee for unlimited calling. Mobile phones charge the same per minute regardless of the number dialed.

Yes, this is oversimplified and there are billing options which do strange things, but it's unlikely that the reason for the local number policy is the cost of the call.

mikeash• 14 years ago

It seems fairly likely to me. The phone lines that charge extra for long distance are exactly those cheap, low-functionality lines that a system like this is probably hooked up to.

hansy• 14 years ago

Market this to the management of every apartment complex with a gate. Have them spread your app to their individual resident base.

Your marketing copy has to change a little because you are now targeting management to be your distribution channel. You could say something like our app reduces the line in front of the gate because it makes it easier for trusted outsiders to enter the community.

Or if you think it's easier to go after your end-users, then you could:

- try and cross-market with other startups targeting apartment residents

- try to get access to different apartment community/common rooms and drop some flyers or quickly talk to some folks (this is kind of creepy and risky, but you might be able to hack the process by asking for a tour of the apartment from management)

- try dropping your message on apartment forums or review sites

Evbn• 14 years ago

Shared buildings explicitly forbid this sort of remote-unlock functionality, for obvious reasons.

firefoxman1• 14 years ago

sell this to apartment owners directly, starting with your own. Tell them it's a selling point they can put in their listings "Includes QuestionsThree easy-access system" or something along those lines.

Billing landlords is a better way to price it, after-all you said you hated getting a $20 bill every month just to access your apartment by phone, so residents wouldn't be much happier if they were billed by this system.

philliescurt• 14 years ago

I agree this is the best way to market this, if apartment complexes offer it as an included benefit to tenants. Have you considered the larger possibility of selling this to the alarm/gate companies to give them the capability of not requiring a local number?

zacharycohn• 14 years ago

I've seen (and built) similar things on top of Twilio before. Even set it up to have multiple passcodes for different friends, then it will text me "John just let himself in."

Some people don't get the pain point, but it's definitely nice!

bstar77• 14 years ago

I love the fact that you solved a specific pain point and can potentially help others, but I'm not sure this is something that would be worth $10/month for most people. This is also a pretty trivial app to build with the twilio/tropo APIs, so it's not an earth shattering product.

Can you set it up to use the same number, but validate accounts with access numbers? That way you only pay for 1 number and could possibly ask for donations on the site for hosting costs (sounds like you could still get away with the free heroku account for your building).

calpaterson• 14 years ago

Most apps are pretty trivial to build, though. The trouble comes in making something that people value, not something that is hard to make.

johnsocs• 14 years ago

It may not be hard to make, but a lot of people can't make it, lacking the skills, knowledge, or experience.

jasim• 14 years ago

> This is also a pretty trivial app to build with the twilio/tropo APIs, so it's not an earth shattering product.

There would be people who might pay for not having to bother to write the code (and maintain it, and maybe innovate on it) for this. You never know.

"it's trivial to write" does not mean people won't pay for it. Things are more complex than that.

anigbrowl3• 14 years ago

It's not the fact that it's trivial that makes it not worth $10/month, it's that it's not that much better than having to tromp downstairs to let someone in. I wouldn't pay $120/year for that, I'd make the landlord provide something that worked (if I lived high off the ground) or just walk downstairs (if I was just on the 2nd floor or so).

romain_dardour• 14 years ago

You found a bad user experience for you (a problem) You built an e-doorman (a product)

Now think about the problem an solution in terms of Product and market

Is the market who you think it is ? (I.E. who will buy this ? people, buzzer system makers or building owners ?)

Then think about what would be the product that would allow your market to solve the problem. Might not be the one you built exactly.

A product is only successful if it solves a problem for a market. Both problem and market are mandatory.

lancewiggs• 14 years ago

You've done the easy bit. The hard bit is how to make money. Selling to the apartment owning/building/management industry will be very difficult. The product needs to be a lot more refined. The marketing materials just so. The team selling experienced in the industry. And so on.

Some fights are worth having. If you can find a sidekick who relishes the sales battle then sobeit.

Else consider open sourcing what you've done and move to the next problem.

d4nt2• 14 years ago

Is it necessary to sell to landlords? Although B2B is often said to be easier, in this case you're solving a problem that only the residents have, so I would have said B2C is the way to go.

joelhaasnoot• 14 years ago

You can also do B2C but have a B2B product. If everyone uses it, landlords/management will see the benefit and be interested.

immy• 14 years ago

Draw a stick figure comic for your pizza||ups delivery story! Much other consumer packaging to do, but that solves your messaging question

josscrowcroft• 14 years ago

I'd suggest manually taking on the first few dozen customers by word of mouth, as many as possible, then using that as evidence of a quantifiable need - after that point, contacting letting agents who may be able to use it as a neat selling point?

ssebro4• 14 years ago

Check out how Lockitron is marketing their product - yours can deliver similar value, except to residents of apartment complexes. https://lockitron.com/preorder

I would first figure out the size of the market, then pick a price point (informed by the size of the market + the pain solved by your solution), then a marketing strategy (target either building management or individuals).

While most people on HN are telling you to market to the apartment complexes, I think you might want to market towards individuals, since they are the ones who feel the pain that you alleviate. You can target apartment complexes if you alleviate some pain that they have (maybe having your system is something they can include in marketing materials, which will get them more occupants/better occupancy).

The best thing about targeting individuals is that you may be able to get them to market for you (see dropbox), and that they will cross pollinate your solution to new apartment complexes when they move.

eagsalazar2• 14 years ago

Why wouldn't you just (1) get a local google voice number, (2) forward it to your cell, (3) ask who it is (yay security!), (4) press 9 (or not). I'm honestly not getting the value here.

I'm also totally not getting how the security aspect of this is being glossed over. To the suggestion that apartment owners/managers would be interested, why would they put up a security gate then install a system that allows it to be bypassed by anyone with your phone number?? I actually bet if you told your apartment manager he would demand you immediately disable it, not pay you to give it to your neighbors.

andr3w321• 14 years ago

I tried this when I had this problem. All the local google voice numbers for my area code were taken so I was SOL.

philip1209• 14 years ago

My problem: I have a google voice number I am attached to. I moved into an apartment where I need to provide a local phone number for the door system. However, I cannot have multiple google voice accounts attached to my cell phone - therefore I can't forward those incoming calls from the new number to my cell.

datamart• 14 years ago

If you set your phone type as "Home" in your Google Voice settings instead of "Mobile", you can attach it to another Google Voice number. I currently do this with my front door callbox, and it works like a charm. I think the limit may be two Google Voice numbers to "Home" real-world phone number, though.

One caveat: Text messages will only be sent to phones listed as "Mobile". But I just get my text messages via the Google Voice app anyway, so this is actually a benefit to me (no duplicated texts).

villagefool• 14 years ago

A similar 'thing' done using SMS (by Hilary Mason in 2010), code included http://www.hilarymason.com/blog/sms-to-e-mail-gateway-the-sm...

imglorp• 14 years ago

I think you need a better domain name. QuestionsThree is a fun name, but it conveys no information. How about something like this:

  * openmydooor.com
  * buzzmein.com
  * apartmentbuzzer.com

etc

jamiequint• 14 years ago

He doesn't need a better domain name...

- Amazon is a fun name but it conveys no information how about buystuffonline.com

- eBay is a fun name but it conveys no information how about OnlineAuctionHouse.com

- Square is a fun name but it conveys no information how about chargecreditcardsonyoursmartphone.com

etc.

wikwocket• 14 years ago

You can play that game all day. Counterexamples: Mint.com. YouTube.com. Salesforce.com. Wordpress.com.

The fact is that you can succeed with a totally random domain name, or one that just screams your targeted message. This business could work with either as well.

Although if the OP does decide to try to monetize as B2B by selling to landlords, maybe using a Monty Python reference is not the best approach. Also, I might go with a blurb more descriptive than "Make your apartment gate awesome."

But you know what they say about advice on the internet!

allbombs• 14 years ago

buzzme.in

ricardobeat2• 14 years ago

Gimmicky. Lots of people will try to access buzzmein.com regardless, specially if it's not a tech/nerdy product.

Auguste• 14 years ago

The name looks like it's from the 'Bridge of Death' scene of Monty Python and the Holy Grail[1] ("Answer me these questions three, then the other side ye see"). I think it's a great name, but most people probably won't get the joke.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWS8Mg-JWSg

zacharydanger4• 14 years ago

I'm happy someone got it. :D

estromlund• 14 years ago

Very cool, I've been using Google Voice for this exact reason over the last 2 years. Was thinking of making something like this using Twilio but you beat me to it...well done!

mkmk• 14 years ago

Very cool, congrats. You may want to read this post-mortem of a company that did the same thing, but then shut down after 50 paying customers. (I used to be a customer, and we re-built it ourselves once the service went offline)

http://buzzer-o-matic.tumblr.com/

dusing• 14 years ago

Is this wants wrong with the startup culture? They create a great product, have 50 paying monthly customers, and because it is not a million dollar idea they shut it down.

Why not keep it running and collect the cash as a side project, I can't imagine this needed much maintenance, its just printing money, maybe not millions, but still real money, and I bet it would grow organically slowly over the years.

pud• 14 years ago

Tell landlords they can offer the service to tenants for $10/mo. Split proceeds 50/50.

Call every landlord in town.

Landlords love upselling tenants (parking spaces, storage space, etc.)

weaksauce• 14 years ago

This is great advice but it also brings up a point; why do these systems require a local number in order to operate? It seems that a firmware upgrade could possibly decimate the op's business.

Edit: I want to point out that I am in no way, shape, or form saying that the op could not make a decent amount of money on this(though, 10/month is a touch steep for someone living in an apartment) but I was just curious why the manufacturers of such devices limit them in such a way.

mmetzger• 14 years ago

Guessing they want a local number because the apartment complex doesn't want to pay for long distance calling.

randallsquared• 14 years ago

Some of them don't. I currently have an out of state number and the door entry system has no problem dialing it.

stephengillie• 14 years ago

A firmware upgrade could probably decimate the OP's business, but the whole value is that this service may be a lot cheaper in terms of mental effort and stress for many landlords.

davemel374• 14 years ago

If I was paying rent, and now I had to pay more money to open the door, that would probably deter me from renting from this building. Almost like a protection racket... You might be a tenant, but cough up extra money to get into your apartment... I would strongly discourage a landlord from trying something like this. This is not a typical upsell, if anything the tenant blames the landlord for the problem in the first place...

mseebach• 14 years ago

Read the article. The service is for an enhanced way of opening the gate, not for opening it in the first place.

rachet• 14 years ago

I did the same thing using twilio here (http://www.ryanfaerman.com/notebook/2012/07/10/gate-insecuri...). The plus-side is it only costs me 3 cents per gate call.

davemel374• 14 years ago

This is a no brainer product to sell to the pizza joint. The sales pitch, You should start with your pizza delivery place and tell them, you will give them delivery access to the building exclusively for X dollars... "We Are The Only Pizza Place That You Don't Have to Open The Gate For." would be a very compelling USP, much like what built the massive brand dominoes pizza, "Fresh Hot Pizza in Thirty Minutes or Less."

You would be surprised how a simple small compelling USP can nearly monopolize a small market... Than I would branch out to other delivery services to your building... Once you have 3-5 places using this marketing pitch you can go to property owners and say, "Here is a way to squeeze extra revenue out of your property, while providing a great service to your tenants... You can take it a step further and offer the first part of the app (with a PIN) to tenants for free, sponsored by the local pizza delivery joint...

The best part is that you already have a relationship with the local pizza place, so start there... prove the model and slowly scale throughout your neighborhood, etc...

bjeanes2• 14 years ago

Hahah nice. I built that same thing about a year ago with the Twilio API. It took about an hour. I still use it 2 apartments later. Awesome.

thebranman• 14 years ago

I had a similar issue at an apartment building. I just setup a new Google phone number (with a local area code) and had the number forward to my cell phone, and then to my wife's cell phone if I didn't pick up. So while I didn't have the cool PIN thing, I could let someone in if I was out since it forwarded to my cell phone. I only bring it up because I wouldn't pay for this solution when the free one (which is nearly if not as good) exists.

trb• 14 years ago

Is there anything that prevents this from being a phone app and sell it in one of the app stores?

You could abstract away all the web and phone (press '9') stuff and just have a button "Open the door? Yes/No" if someone activates the buzzer.

Maybe add some easy management for pins that:

- always open (roommates/family/friends)

- open only one time (deliveries, not-so-close-friends)

- open only under certain conditions (time of day, day of month, etc)

Make it possible to easily share those pin numbers via SMS, Facebook, email, etc.

I think you have a product that's great for access management. You should highlight the additional benefits in your marketing, e.g.:

- easy to invite friends over for dinner

- easy to share apartment without the need for new keys

- easy to revoke access

- easy to let cleaning staff in during certain times of day

Another thought: Market it as a helpful add-on for AirBnB customers. You don't have to give someone a key to your apartment, just a PIN that only works for the time they rent the apartment (this is also useful for sub-leases). You can revoke access at any time, no matter where you are (big problem with keys).

Short version: I think you'd have a better chance packaging your product as a mobile app, abstracting away all the web/phone stuff and sell it as "entry management" instead of "automated buzzer".

civilian• 14 years ago

+1 for Airbnb! The great thing about a pin is that the owner can change it whenever they want, so they can change it for each airbnb customer.

hac• 14 years ago

+1 for mobile app. It could be done very well as an iPhone app combined with the Rails backend.

ricardobeat2• 14 years ago

This system can only open the street-facing gate, not the front door.

davemel374• 14 years ago

There was an app on SharkTank that basically offered all these features.

ams6110• 14 years ago

Cool idea, but you can get a local phone number from Magic Jack or its ilk for $10/year, I have a hard time seeing how you charge much more than that.

nilbus• 14 years ago

Yeah, I could never justify a service like this for $100/yr. It's cool, but it's also free to get a local google voice number that forwards to the cell and just press 9.

natep• 14 years ago

"Local" google voice numbers aren't local enough for these systems. At least not for my last apartment's.

javert• 14 years ago

Lots of people are saying that your pricing is too high, but I presume that people who live in apartments with fancy gates for protection can probably stand to throw away $100/year without even thinking.

amccloud• 14 years ago

I also build something similar when I was living in an apartment.

I've open sourced the it here: https://github.com/amccloud/django-tropo-webapi/

and the bulk of it https://github.com/amccloud/django-tropo-webapi/blob/master/...

It was great because it allowed my roommate and I to buzz people in from our own cell phones. It also allowed me to set an entry code to give out to friends and for deliveries. It would sms me and my roommate when someone came through the gate. To further extend on that idea you could create specific codes for specific people that only work at specific times.

nilved• 14 years ago

> I’ve built a thing.

> And unfortunately, I haven’t found a succinct way to market it or even just describe it.

My first tip is to stop using such vague and obnoxious phrasing.

amouat• 14 years ago

That's just the author's style and there's nothing wrong with it, except that you don't like it.

logn• 14 years ago

I agree with this. I wasn't sure if he was a non-native English speaker or was going to play this up rhetorically (e.g., "I made a thing: it is now The Thing"). Very odd, repetitive, and unusual construction. I wouldn't normally call someone out on this, but if they're taking this messaging to a customer it's terrible. Use some terminology, vocab, jargon, not "a thing".

dmritard96• 14 years ago

did something similar in school a couple years ago. Basically was a web server and an arduino connected to the apartments buzzer and door unlock system. When you were at the front door you would be connected to our wifi network and could then go to a url that would open the door. Never thought to sell the service to others in the building - would have been a good idea. although when the maintenance guy came in and saw an arduino hanging down from the intercom/buzzer box he was a little pissed. lol

chmike• 14 years ago

I would suggest to enter in contact with companies that build and sell these gate locks. These are your clients. Check HN posts on how to cold call sell something the most efficient way to succeed. Don't expect to get rich from it. But this will be of high value for people reading your cv and might take your virginity off in making business. ;)

Note: rule n° 1 of marketing: identify your market (clients)

d4nt2• 14 years ago

I would take it area by area, walk around to find the buildings that have gates, then mail everyone in those buildings with a voucher code. A/B test your letters, refine as you go. Consider partnering with local pizza delivery stores, maybe 50c off if you have this service?

Work out how many people you need signed up in order to live off the income, after a few weeks of marketing extrapolate out how many weeks it'll take to get enough people signed up to live off this business. Consider whether it's worth continuing or re-evaluate at that point.

iamweisser• 14 years ago

This is a problem that many people have in Boston because most are transplants without local numbers and it seems like you've built a nice solution.

My current fix: I created a Google number with the local 617 area code.

I could see this being very useful however.

narcissus• 14 years ago

That's a really cool idea, but just out of curiosity, is it normal for the gate to have to be programmed with a phone number? In the apartment complexes that I lived in, the gate would just buzz through to a small intercom type system beside the door in the apartment.

Is the phone calling thing a new process, or is this just an Australia vs. USA thing?

gallaghersean• 14 years ago

This is a wonderful idea. I've thought of doing the same with Twilio. You could also make it a little more secure with Twilio by only opening the gate (dialing "9") for specific phone numbers that call in - for example your friend's number of the pizza place's number.

bashzor• 14 years ago

What thing did you build? I'm not gonna click on titles like these.

nu2ycombinator• 14 years ago

I had similar problem and I gave google voice number, which is local

frankus• 14 years ago

Have you considered a one-time-use (or limited-time) PIN for deliveries? You could also replace your PIN-free pizza-guy mode with a fixed pizza guy PIN (say, 74992) that's similarly only valid for an hour.

Show HN: I built a thing

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