A Nationwide Book Ban Bill Has Been Introduced in the House of Representatives

https://bookriot.com/hr7661-book-ban-legislation/

by LostMyLogin • 5 months ago

182 94 5 months ago

Tyrubias• 5 months ago

It’s honestly terrifying that efforts to ban books and restrict what teachers can teach have made such a big comeback in the US. When I was in school, we always discussed banned books from the perspective of “we used to ban things that made people uncomfortable in the bad old days, but that could never happen in the 21st century”. Obviously that glossed over a lot of nuance, but it still shocks me as an adult seeing repression we discussed only from a historical perspective make its way back into the legislature.

Part of the purpose of education is exposing students to strange, uncomfortable, and even frightening ideas and giving them the tools to critically think about and even empathize with such ideas. They don’t have to even be “useful” ideas, since it’s important that students are given the tools to grow and become anything they want. It seems like a lot of groups around the country just want students to grow up to become drones working to prop up the economy. Anything that might make people question the nature of society or their role in it must be suppressed according to them.

no-dr-onboard• 5 months ago

A lot of your argument presupposes a distinct lack of parental authority in the education of a child.

The way that it appears to be playing out is that parents were repulsed by perverted and strange worldviews being taught to their children on their dime. They called their legislators to make the changes and, in a rare event, the legislators listened and are acting upon it.

The system, for once, seems to be working. Both sides should see the objective value in at least that.

rl3• 5 months ago

The way that it appears to be playing out is that parents were repulsed by perverted and strange worldviews being taught ...

Can you elaborate?

The system, for once, seems to be working.

Interesting worldview.

WarOnPrivacy• 5 months ago

The way that it appears to be playing out is that parents were repulsed by perverted and strange worldviews being taught to their children on their dime.

This variation of the origin story gets a lot of play. However it doesn't address the outside book-ban groups who provide titles to parents - or who just appear at school board meetings themselves.

    Eleven "super requesters" — those who raised concerns about or challenged
    15 or more titles at a time — accounted for 73% of the targeted books. 
    They often referred to lists of books originating in other districts 
    or from online forums. Some had no children in the district. 
    In nearly 60 cases, the school district didn’t own the book 
    the requester sought to remove.

ref: https://wisconsinwatch.org/2024/07/wisconsin-book-ban-school...

drewwwwww• 5 months ago

it’s a manufactured and coordinated from the top down moral panic that you have fallen for, or are content to cynically exploit.

mcphage• 5 months ago

The way that it appears to be playing out is that parents were repulsed by perverted and strange worldviews being taught to their children on their dime.

That’s definitely not how this is playing out.

ramoz2• 5 months ago

I struggle with the federal government's power over all this. Let the states and local jurisdictions decide. Put in guardrails so that those local jurisdictions don't become corrupted, but at the same time we should empower people to place their children in education systems that don't ultimately falter to who's empowered in the fed.

You may be okay with your children reading some books. That's great, and you should be able to find the right school districts for them, and I should be able to do the same to ensure my children don't read through explicit material without any form of parental oversight.

unmole3• 5 months ago

I struggle with the federal government's power over all this.

From the TFA, the proposed bill "would modify the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 by prohibiting use of funds under the act". This is hardly a case of the federal government running roughshod over sates and local jurisdictions.

This is a wild exaggeration to call this a national book ban.

PearlRiver• 5 months ago

In the real world each and every one of us has to function at a workplace with people from every race and religion.

BrenBarn• 5 months ago

My recollection is discussing banned books from the perspective of "people have done and still do this elsewhere in the US, but we don't do it here".

StopDisinfo9103• 5 months ago

I deeply oppose MAGA but the idea of winning through the take over of the cultural institution - school, universities, the media - has been theorized by Gramsci followers like Marcuse and Horkheimer.

In a lot of way, what we are witnessing in a counter movement swinging opposite to the heavy push for critical theory in the public sphere. Critical theory is not neutral. It is teleological in nature.

Schools have been a battle ground for decades I fear.

johnnyanmac• 5 months ago

prohibiting use of funds under the act “to develop, implement, facilitate, host, or promote any program or activity for, or to provide or promote literature or other materials to, children under the age of 18 that includes sexually oriented material, and for other purposes.

"For other purposes" is going to be doing a Herculean effort of carrying for the next few years if this passes. for example:

This bill includes “lewd” and “lascivious” dancing as prohibited topics or themes.

I guess we learned nothing from Footloose.

----

And yes, for a TLDR on the article and the general situation of this the last decease or so: such book bans tends to be a roundabout way to associate "sexually oriented" topics with the trans community. Sometimes the entire LGBT umbrella is hit.

Pre-epstien, I'd be surprised that such people care much more about what goes on with a person's state of being than the person themselves. But it really seems like every accusation is a confession.

viraptor4• 5 months ago

such book bans tends to be a roundabout way to associate "sexually oriented" topics with the trans community

Yup. When books get banned for containing actual sexual content, that gets reverted https://www.newsweek.com/bible-banned-texas-schools-over-sex...

yaky• 5 months ago

This is creepily similar to Russia circa 10+ years ago with its "gay propaganda" and "child protection" laws, and strong government support for the church.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/11/russia-law-ban...

vkou2• 5 months ago

MAGA is just United Russia with a different supreme leader. The end-game is the same - a vaguely lipservice-Christian[1] autocracy.

When they tell you of all the insane shit they want, believe them. They are an existential threat to the republic, because they don't place any value any of the immutable principles of the republic, and will sell all of them up the river to see their guy win.

---

[1] Their actual behavior is incredibly un-Christ-like.

whynotmaybe• 5 months ago

They're fast tracking.

I hope they don't start a youth movement like the scouts and name it after their leader.

Integrape• 5 months ago

Almost anti-Christ like, wouldn't you say?

StopDisinfo9103• 5 months ago

It has similarity in that there is a form of alliance between predominantly white fundamentalist catholics and evangelical christians and Trump which is embodied by Vance which could be seen as mimicking Putin proximity with the Orthodox church. They both use their churches to justify a civilizational agenda and frame autocracy as protection.

Still, there are several major differences one bieng the patriarch supporting Putin while the Catholic church mostly opposes Trump.

vkou2• 5 months ago

Catholics are a minority denomination in America, and an especially small minority in the relevant states.

Russian Orthodoxy, on the other hand, encompasses ~95% of Russian Christians, and there is no organized alternative to it.

... Also, Trump 2024 won Catholics by 12 points (While 2020 and 2016 was a 50/50 split.)

Whatever the church's views are, unlike the evangelicals, it's not dictating to its members how they should vote.

archagon• 5 months ago

Just as a side note, there is no Orthodox Pope since Eastern Orthodoxy is kind of a federation of national churches. Other Orthodox patriarchs disagree with Patriarch Kirill to varying degrees, even to the point where the Russian Orthodox Church is currently out of communion with Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the "mother church" and seat of the Ecumenical Patriarch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Moscow–Constantinople_sch...

sershe2• 5 months ago

Not at all, the Russian ban was an outright speech restriction (I'm originally from Russia). This only applies to schools taking federal money. This is much more similar to pressuring institutions taking federal money to do things, by both parties, like adding or removing diversity programs, mandating wage levels, curtailing due process for sexual assault investigations, investigating alleged fraud, etc. There are actually colleges that are very careful about not taking federal money where it would affect them.

The approach that most people in the US seem to favor is "this is totally fine that the right-thinking government can do this, the problem is that the other guys occasionally get to rule".

The real solution is to remove the levers, or the federal spending, so that neither side can do it.

baubino2• 5 months ago

This only applies to schools taking federal money.

Which means all poor public school districts (free breakfast programs are funded with federal money) and most other public schools districts (special needs programs are funded with federal money). So the “only” here is basically “all” public school districts.

Spivak• 5 months ago

And we're finally here on the national stage.

1. Ban exposing minors to "sexual material." Who would be against that? Surely only weirdos would push to expose kids to sex and pornography. Make sure this gets challenged in court and that it's found constitutional under 1A.

2. Define things we don't like as sexual material. Obviously being gay is entirely about sex, just like being trans is about genitals. You don't even have to speculate that this is the motive—it's defined explicitly in the bill.

3. Boom, you found a legal way to ban what would otherwise be a pretty obvious 1A violation.

This is the public institutions half, it's harder to swing a bill like this for private institutions which is why that's handled with age verification bills. That way it's not technically a ban.

JohnTHaller• 5 months ago

Republicans keep telling everyone who they are. But a good chunk of folks keep denying it.

adamors• 5 months ago

No, a good chunk of folks like this and knowingly support this.

XorNot• 5 months ago

You're both right.

chneu2• 5 months ago

It's good to remind Americans that like 20-30% of us blindly support trump and not much will change that(sunk cost). Another 10-20% support him cuz he might hurt the correct people and that's worth it. Another few percent support him cuz he's a rich guy and to a lot of Americans $$$=good person.

gdulli• 5 months ago

Sorry, the toothpaste doesn't go back into the tube with social issues. Interracial marriage isn't going away either lol.

esafak• 5 months ago

This is a naive take. The clock can be rewound far back.

viraptor4• 5 months ago

Have your seen the 60s/70s photos from Iran? https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/iran-before-revolution-phot...

It just depends how much the government wants to go fundamental and how much people allow it.

otherme123• 5 months ago

Or Kabul in the 60's vs today, even more extreme change, with no hope to going back in the near future.

remarkEon2• 5 months ago

Trying to parse this comparison. Are you comparing the withholding of federal funds for certain classes of books to a revolution that installed an Islamic theocracy in Iran?

Can you elaborate on how you think these two things are comparable?

The former is "tax dollars can't be spent on books that depict certain content". The latter is "a revolution lead by Islamic theocrats installs a brutally repressive islamist regime that transformed an otherwise western country into a hellscape". You think these things are the same?

FuckButtons• 5 months ago

Weimar Germany was very socially liberal, homosexuality was socially accepted, legal rights for women were the same as for men, and all of that definitely went away quite quickly.

russdill• 5 months ago

They revoked driver's licenses of transgender individuals in Kansas giving only 3 days notice.

palmotea• 5 months ago

Sorry, the toothpaste doesn't go back into the tube with social issues. Interracial marriage isn't going away either lol.

Sorry, that's just naive, overconfident liberalism. There is no mandatory "direction" to social change. Given enough time, every bit of that toothpaste will go back in that tube, and enough more time it will come out again, only to go back in after a spell. And it won't be an oscillation. It'll be some weird path none of us can predict.

_alaya3• 5 months ago

You are either completely uneducated on world history or willfully ignorant.

There is no limit on how far back the clock is allowed to turn.

Things that will be targeted:

* homosexuals (often the first)

* non whites

* interracial marriage

* voting rights

* voting right for women

* women’s suffrage

* education for girls

* no fault divorce

* freedom of speech

* freedom of mobility (like to leave the country)

* trade unions / labor unions

* Freemasons (Oddfellows, etc)

* practicing a religion other than Christianity

* environmental regulations

* public lands, federal parks

* etc etc etc

Look not to China or North Korea for the operating model but East Germany during the Cold War. There was a massive surveillance operation in place then and technology has only improved.

Freedom is not guaranteed and for most of human history was not a goal.

lostmsu3• 5 months ago

Your list is missing Nazi parties somewhere between the non whites and voting rights. And for most of the countries in the world - gun owners at the top of the list. Just speaking from historical perspective.

pabs3• 5 months ago

Things that will be targeted:

Wonder how far down the agenda slavery appears.

matheusmoreira• 5 months ago

Given enough tyranny, the toothpaste absolutely can be made to go back into the tube. And it better enjoy every second of it or else.

ThrowawayTestr• 5 months ago

Man, anything to distract people from the files.

mindslight2• 5 months ago

What files?

Larrikin• 5 months ago

The pedo ones

ufocia• 5 months ago

Doesn't look like a ban, a mere withholding of federal funds.

beej71• 5 months ago

I can't tell if this is just trolling or a genuine take. I'm any case, it's too simplistic.

BLKNSLVR• 5 months ago

... by any other name

SilverElfin• 5 months ago

Age verification (porn bans), VPN bans, restrictions on 3D printing - all of these are other policies, both proposed and already in law, that make additional violations of individual rights easier to pass, because these things have been normalized. It’s why the slippery slope isn’t always a logical fallacy.

WalterBright3• 5 months ago

There are always going to be fights about what gets taught in schools, and what isn't. It's an inevitable consequence of government run schools. I don't agree that it is a free speech issue.

Children do not have the full set of adult rights.

eesmith3• 5 months ago

No need to emphasize "government" -- It's an inevitable consequence of schools.

Private secular schools have fights about what gets taught.

Private religious schools have fights about what gets taught.

Children have more rights in public schools than they have in private schools. Tinker v. Des Moines: "It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."

thrance• 5 months ago

These policies are symptoms of the authoritarian zeitgeist, not its causes. We will keep getting more and more of them until people start believing in democracy again. In that sense, I don't think it's a slippery slope, since one policy doesn't automatically lead to another.

Dig1t• 5 months ago

If you can buy the book on Amazon or find it at your local library is the book really "banned"?

Eddy_Viscosity2• 5 months ago

If it can't really be banned, then why waste all the time and energy passing this law?

ProllyInfamous• 5 months ago

Control. Virtue signalling. Because they can... [0]

[0] Why does a dog lick his balls?

zoklet-enjoyer• 5 months ago

The rep who introduced the bill quoted Hitler in a speech 2 days into her term. And then she spent the next 5 years advocating for horrible, repressive legislation. Disgusting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Miller_(politician)#:~:te...

koonsolo2• 5 months ago

And in other news, the Trump appointed ambassador in Belgium, Bill White, is fine with adult men sucking the blood from a baby penis.

And if you think I'm kidding, no I'm not.

Some of those boys end up with herpes, but it's all fine in MAGA land.

Source, straight from the horses mouth: https://youtu.be/KolvU5m0CZI?si=KMnq_y8KfGuhXkDY&t=410

chneu2• 5 months ago

Didn't a bunch of kids in NYC get STIs cuz of this like a decade or two ago? A bunch of rabbis were biting baby dicks, oh sorry I mean performing a religious ceremony, and giving kids STIs.

koonsolo2• 5 months ago

That is likely indeed, because in the interview, she explicitly mentions that New York is also questioning that practice.

givemeethekeys• 5 months ago

Why is there a federal department of education, anyway? Shouldn't the states be fully responsible for educating their population?

ArchieScrivener• 5 months ago

We should make Mein Kampf available, too? Anarchist Cookbook?

Perenti• 5 months ago

Could you claim any book with boys being different to girls breaches the sex talk rules? I'm just wondering how you could use this law to show how ridiculous it is.

aristofun• 5 months ago

Finally, some politicians had some sense.

Unfortunately, some of them is going to abuse that.

But that what politics is - only trade-offs, no perfect decisions. Only brain ded radicals of all sides think there are simple solutions.

TrnsltLife• 5 months ago

Good. Hopefully we can get a government contract with Boston Dynamics robot dogs wielding flamethrowers to enforce it too.

silexia• 5 months ago

Not a book ban, but not using public funds to push a hotly contested culture war point.

A Nationwide Book Ban Bill Has Been Introduced in the House of Representatives

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