ICE Is Buying a Tool to Track Phones, Without Warrants

https://olgalautman.substack.com/p/ice-is-buying-a-tool-to-track-hundreds

by beezle • 10 months ago

166 82 10 months ago

olgalautman.substack.com

daft_pink2• 10 months ago

TLDR.

ICE is buying a software tool that analyzes information purchased from commercial data brokers to track people.

vkou5• 10 months ago

Why is the government doing mass-surveillance for alleged civil[1] infractions?

---

[1] Nearly all deportations - overstays are civil, not criminal[2][3] cases.

[2] If they were criminal cases, every accused would be constitutionally entitled to a trial by jury.

[3] Anyone using the term 'illegal' to refer to those people is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. They want to make them sound like criminals, while denying them the constitutional protections that all accused criminals are entitled to.

etchalon• 10 months ago

Because the government has decided mass-surveillance is OK so long as they really, really want to do it.

stackskipton2• 10 months ago

Because they have funding and Deportations are a priority for this administration.

qwe----3• 10 months ago

Because the government was elected with a strong mandate to deport illegal migrants?

pessimizer4• 10 months ago

Why would they even wait for a civil infraction? What difference does that make? Why are they doing mass surveillance on people wearing brown shoes?

If the dossiers are available on the market, and the price is right, and they're allowed to for some reason even though they wouldn't be allowed to collect that information themselves, they should just buy them for every citizen just in case.

gruez2• 10 months ago

[2] If they were criminal cases, every accused would be constitutionally entitled to a trial by jury.

Are there any reputable law scholars that supports this argument? Otherwise this feels suspiciously close to sovereign citizens argument about how they don't need drivers licenses because they're "traveling" or whatever.

[3] Anyone using the term 'illegal' to refer to those people is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. They want to make them sound like criminals, while denying them the constitutional protections that all accused criminals are entitled to.

What about "illegally" parked cars? Those are also civil infractions.

malcolmgreaves• 10 months ago

That’s not the whole story. It plays a part, but if it were just that, it wouldn’t be nearly as bad. Your comment makes it think that this is a “both sides” thing and it’s anything but that.

The bigger story is that the Republicans have illegally dismantled safeguards against the centralization and collection of data. And they’ve stopped any sort of warrant process for collecting and analyzing this data.

Buying commercial data with a warrant or a process around it to ensure it is lawfully used is one thing. Disregarding the law and constitution to do whatever you like is a wholly different matter.

And don’t forget the end game. This is about silencing political opponents. It’s not for a lawful use. It’s purely so the Republicans can keep their man in power in perpetuity.

The end game alone makes this vastly different than what’s been done before.

pessimizer4• 10 months ago

The bigger story is that the Republicans have illegally dismantled safeguards against the centralization and collection of data. And they’ve stopped any sort of warrant process for collecting and analyzing this data.

Are you going to link this story? It would be interesting. What was the previous warrant process, and what laws required it?

BinaryIgor• 10 months ago

I wonder what's the most important source of location data here - apps that you have given permissions to do so? Telecom providers? GPS?

daft_pink2• 10 months ago

I'm also very curious. It's too bad someone doesn't come up with a tool so you can see your own data....

I wrote this TLDR, because I wondered what I would have to do to prevent tracking (turn off bluetooth etc), but it's just a commercial data broker.

pessimizer4• 10 months ago

And we're going to pretend this is an issue because of immigration enforcement, rather than government from top to bottom being able to use commercial data brokers to get around legal limitations on their own actions, or the fact that commercial data brokers collecting huge numbers of dossiers on normal people are allowed to exist and work with impunity.

And both will continue to be allowed to do this, obviously. Something something private business free speech child protection that doesn't apply to ICE because I'm against ICE right now.

titzer• 10 months ago

Wait until they find out what "anonymous" data phones are uploading to the big tech companies who happen to own application platforms and mobile operating systems.

chinathrow• 10 months ago

Why is noone stopping them?

sneak• 10 months ago

Because it's not really illegal. People are voluntarily sharing their data with corporations via social media and apps, and those corporations are voluntarily selling it to data brokers, who are then voluntarily selling it to the SaaS that ICE is using here to track people.

The problem here is a lack of data protection laws. It's entirely legal for any private citizen who wants to to purchase huge amounts of mass location data/history for billions of people.

ruined• 10 months ago

"voluntarily"

i consider myself fairly knowledgeable about tracking techniques and countermeasures. despite constant effort and techniques that are extreme or impossible for the average individual, i believe my evasions are minimally effective.

it's also increasingly difficult to use the internet or even exist in public at all without some kind of compromise that invalidates most of that work.

ydlr2• 10 months ago

the Department of Homeland Security had suspended the purchase of commercial location data after the Inspector General found the agency had violated federal law, but that temporary safeguard has now been dismantled.

Sounds like it is still illegal. They just don't care.

OutOfHere2• 10 months ago

ICE has done a lot more than just buy location data. They have bought phone hacking tools that use exploits. Hacking without a court order is illegal.

https://www.rsn.org/001/ice-obtains-access-to-israelimade-sp...

cwmoore2• 10 months ago

I still consider my web footprint and yours to be copyrighted work product.

cwmoore2• 10 months ago

Assumed it was already happening.

herbert58473• 10 months ago

Don’t worry folks this will be censored very soon. Can’t have any articles that encourage double plus wrong think on the vc echo chamber

superkuh4• 10 months ago

If you carry a radio based tracker on your person you will be tracked. This information will eventually be abused. It's not a hard conclusion to come to, and one supported by too many repetitions of abuse in both sensible and not sensible nations to disregard... but somehow it is (disregarded). Cell phones are just too useful for people to acknowledge what they are and what the solution is: stop carrying a radio tracker or at least leave it turned off most of the time.

palata3• 10 months ago

Not sure if you're trying to make a point or just to self-congratulate yourself for thinking this since the 2000s (do you mention a date because you feel you predicted something unexpected?).

Spoiler: it's obvious to anyone who knows about tech.

superkuh4• 10 months ago

Not sure if you're disregarding the call to action to turn off your cell phone when not using it or if my prior point is literally playing out as we speak ("You know the problem but it's too useful to acknowledge.").

I mention the date because this problem has been known by everyone, not just me, for a very long time. But it seems like others are incapable of acting on the knowledge.

myroon5• 10 months ago

Or at least turn it off

https://slate.com/technology/2013/07/nsa-can-reportedly-trac...

+ sorry for tracking your comment edits ;)

superkuh4• 10 months ago

So take the battery out. And before you say, I can't, well, you've made a bad choice for the world we currently live in.

ashton314• 10 months ago

So, what's the best way to fight back, personally and collectively? Yes, yes—we need legal measures against this sort of thing—but are there tracking mitigation measures that known to be effective on mobile devices? Is there a way we can dilute this commercially-available data to poison the well, as it were?

Ekaros• 10 months ago

Stop using mobile devices.

jaredwiener• 10 months ago

Original article the link cites: https://www.404media.co/ice-to-buy-tool-that-tracks-location...

smartbit• 10 months ago

https://archive.is/WFsNN

chairmansteve• 10 months ago

Leave your phone at home, if you are worried.

radlad2• 10 months ago

I cannot do my job without my phone. Increasingly, I also cannot pay or utilize services without my phone.

FollowingTheDao2• 10 months ago

And you don’t think you’ll be marked as suspicious for leaving your home phone at home?

Why did you leave your phone at home? What are you hiding? Why are you afraid of being tracked by us?

Do you not understand anything about privacy and why it’s important?

muwtyhg2• 10 months ago

That's where the network of CCTV cameras with facial recognition and gait detection come in!

Barreling towards a complete lack of privacy is scary and waving it away as "just don't bring your phone" is massively naive. There are many many ways you can be identified and tracked besides your own phone, because there is so much incentive to do it. Even if everyone stopped bringing their phone everywhere out of fear of tracking, they would _still be tracked_

tldrthelaw4• 10 months ago

The talking point that private industry is tracking you as well is tired, and ostensibly smart people should stop trotting it out. Meta and Apple can't arrest you or secret you away to a foreign country -- at least not yet. That makes the distinction a difference.

Analemma_• 10 months ago

The better talking point here is that once the data is collected, you must assume the government can get to it, always. Who actually stores it (a public or private entity) is an irrelevant implementation detail, and people pretending otherwise are being foolish.

tldrthelaw4• 10 months ago

Sure, but how is the government simply obtaining the data directly not an escalation? A subpoena at least requires an additional step and ostensible checks.

radlad2• 10 months ago

No, but they can easily be subpoenaed for said information.

phkahler• 10 months ago

Or paid

tldrthelaw4• 10 months ago

Absolutely, but that doesn't erase the fact that the government gathering the information directly is an escalation. They know they can subpoena it -- that presents a hurdle. They're opting to end around said hurdle.

throwawayqqq11• 10 months ago

What does "surveilance capitalism" mean in your opponion?

Just some companies which collect unfathomable troves of data but have no incentive to clamp down individuals or manipulate democracies?

I just spilled my rhetorical counter argument...

You are right, the distinction between public or private abuse of power is futile in the end, but this doesnt mean we should put a blind eye on private corporations doing the dystopian ground work, by eg. relativizing all this with a "It could be worse. It could be the government but thank god its only palantir bundling the data, so no f'ing issue here. Calm down smart people!".

maerF0x0• 10 months ago

Trump is quietly building a surveillance state, and almost no one is paying attention.

To be fair this has been happening at least since 9/11 under both parties.

josefritzishere• 10 months ago

This sounds like crime.

drdaeman3• 10 months ago

This is exactly how Russia built its surveillance state. It began with the quiet centralization of telecommunications data, followed by the rollout of SORM, which gave the government mass interception and geolocation powers, and ended with the targeted use of those capabilities against political opponents, journalists, and civil society. Immigrants, ethnic minorities, and marginalized groups were the first targets—people with little power to resist.

While I agree with the overall premise, but to best of my awareness (and I worked at an ISP in Russia in '00s) those statements are not entirely accurate.

SORM is Russia's Room 641A, except that it's legislated and all done in the open. It started way before telecom consolidation (which started mid-'00s, when large enterprises with strong government ties started to absorb smaller companies) and initially crept in slowly. At first smaller telcos were able to step around the requirements and just promise to cooperate "if something" (essentially, looking up flow logs and/or running tcpdump after being served a proper warrant).

AFAIK, SORM's first targets were mostly CSAM distributors and people who leaned towards neo-nazi views to various extents. That's how it was legitimized in the eyes of those who knew about it: look, FSB is going against pedophiles and nazis, yay! Don't know about journalists or minorities.

Shit started to hit the fan with mid-2010s rapid acceleration towards authoritarianism, when mandatory censorship and drastic expansion of online surveillance became a law.

And mass/non-targeted phone tracking is a relatively modern development in Russia, mostly post-pandemics.

palata3• 10 months ago

AFAIK, SORM's first targets were mostly CSAM distributors and people who leaned towards neo-nazi views to various extents. That's how it was legitimized in the eyes of those who knew about it: look, FSB is going against pedophiles and nazis, yay!

Sounds similar to ChatControl, right?

Not saying that the EU is turning authoritarian at all, but just that it is a tool that may turn evil in the future.

drdaeman3• 10 months ago

Somewhat similar in the "think of the children" and "we want this to fight the baddies" arguments. Both SORM and ChatControl have stated goals of mandatory warrant-less eavesdropping.

That's about all in similarities, though. AFAIK, there's a difference in the system architecture: Russian SORM was a push from an existing agency (FSB) who became it's sole operator (and basically took over the country: Putin is KGB/FSB spawn), EU proposal seem to establish a clearinghouse-like system for various law enforcement agencies to access through. There's also a difference in oversight: FSB has none, EU proposes some, though I'm not really knowledgeable on the details.

And - yeah - any tool that allows government to violate citizen rights is inherently dangerous if the government becomes hostile. This is clearly the case in Russia, and I'm not knowledgeable about EU at all so I cannot possibly tell.

JaKXz• 10 months ago

Why is this flagged?

jsbisviewtiful• 10 months ago

[flagged]

kmijyiyxfbklao• 10 months ago

Maybe because it's "US-based surveillance"

https://xcancel.com/garrytan/status/1963310592615485955

mdhb2• 10 months ago

JFC what a moron he is…

sph• 10 months ago

That’s the new YC CEO? Jesus Christ. The techno-totalitarianism has infected the entire Silicon Valley.

Gud• 10 months ago

Holy shit this is the ycombinator CEO?

If you the reader are working on these technologies, I encourage you take a good look at yourself in the mirror. You are building a surveillance state for the rich to use against yourself, me and everyone else not part of the ruling class.

You are helping cement the class divide.

OutOfHere2• 10 months ago

Because rightwing bootlickers don't want the truth to be known.

classified• 10 months ago

Thou shalt not criticize the rich, especially when they're building weapons against the unprivileged.

maroon_unperson• 10 months ago

Flagged articles used to be a sign of something being misleading, badly written, or just something generally off to take caution with.

The last two years it has become more of a signal that "this is something right wing USA would want to supress".

I think the flagging mechanism needs a rethink now it is being abused in this way.

mdhb2• 10 months ago

The moderators genuinely seem to think that everything is going perfectly according to plan and if you ever try to suggest that there’s a group of users who flag things in a coordinated fashion purely because they personally don’t align with their politics you will be told that you’re a conspiracy theorist and that you should just trust them that they are doing a great job but also at the same time no you’re not allowed to see any of the rational behind their moderation decisions, there’s no log, you just have to take them at their word even if we can all see clear as day that there is no link between the rules as they are written and the rules as they are enforced.

toasted-subs• 10 months ago

Kind of makes me feel better about never having kids.

Just be another crop for the police state.

wakawaka282• 10 months ago

The government already has a plethora of such tools. I don't like them but at least this is a case of using the tools to enforce the law.

ytpete2• 10 months ago

Is "enforcing the law" what ICE has actually been doing lately, though?

wakawaka282• 10 months ago

Yes.

ICE Is Buying a Tool to Track Phones, Without Warrants

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