Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

https://www.lttlabs.com/blog/2025/08/30/nintendo-switch-2-dock

by croes • 11 months ago

298 193 11 months ago

lttlabs.com

qwertytyyuu• 11 months ago

Woah, Lttlabs on hacker news front page!

spartanatreyu• 11 months ago

Didn't know LTT's labs was already running.

I'll be curious to see how their testing and data compares to gamersnexus testing and what their first catching a manufacturer's lies event will be.

gregoryl• 11 months ago

I'm surprised it continues to exist at all. The main content ltt puts out these days is purely mass market entertainment. Physical products are still pretty good!

viraptor3• 11 months ago

You're surprised they still exist... because they target wider audiences?

Dennip• 11 months ago

They still regularly reference labs sourced findings & data in the current videos.

theshrike79• 11 months ago

https://www.lttlabs.com

They have their own site and all

mosquitobiten• 11 months ago

yeah, they catch lies pretty regularly but they don't act like "OMFG THIS IS SOO BAAAD!!!". it's one of the things I like about LTT, they are more neutral or positive in their content. they try to be viral but usually don't ride the negativity/toxic viral wave.

akimbostrawman• 11 months ago

Its better for business and sponsor relationships to be that way. That's why I prefer gamersnexus since they only serve the viewer and consumer, they can afford to tread on companies toes freely. Without a bit of sensationalism people and companies would never care.

ls612• 11 months ago

They put up a video the other day with the summary of this testing, but it’s cool that the full table is now available.

franky472• 11 months ago

I own a Switch 1, and the other day I wanted to play on the train, but the battery was low. I figured "no problem, I can connect it to my laptop and let it charge off is battery".

Nope. The MacBook Pro started charging off the Switch instead.

parhamn• 11 months ago

I've wondered how this works (and who wins).

scottapotamas• 11 months ago

For two DRP (dual role) devices connected to each other, I believe in a default case the one that happens to advertise as a source first just becomes one.

The standard allows for a role swap at any point while connected, and if that’s triggered will be dependent on the firmware/config on one or both ends.

There’s probably more nuance hiding in the real world hardware too.

behnamoh• 11 months ago

This happens with one of my powerbanks! If connected to a USB hub as a USB device (not as the power source), it still starts charging my Macbook which is connected to the hub.

red3692• 11 months ago

I was really excited when I learned that unplugging the cable, waiting some short period of time and plugging it back in, triggers a power-role swap.

I've only tried it out on one occasion, and I'm not clear on the delay, or whether both ends need to be disconnected or only one. I was a little surprised it isn't talked about more.

stephen_g4• 11 months ago

Is that for a specific device? For standard dual-role USB-C devices they do a negotiation that is partially based on chance which power role they land on (but they can have policy that strongly prefers one role over the other).

snailmailman2• 11 months ago

Interesting. I saw some of their video about this the other day. The video gives the impression that Nintendo is intentionally not supporting external monitors that aren’t the official switch dock.

But the conclusion on this article seems to lean more towards that it could be a mistake or bug. I guess that might be the case - didn’t they screw up USB-C on the switch 1? I know it’s an incredibly complex standard.

I guess the only way to know if it’s intentional or a bug, is if Nintendo updates the switch to fix it. As Linus said in his video, the Nintendo USB isn’t very “universal”.

hsbauauvhabzb• 11 months ago

The ltt video didn’t suggest it was intentional, it was careful not to. But Nintendo were certainly aware of it before release.

snailmailman2• 11 months ago

It was certainly heavily implied to be intentional. With the title referencing "Nintendo’s greed"[0] and in the first minute they call it “locking down a product, not for a good reason, but just because [nintendo] can, or […] because <bleep> you”

It’s not until much further in the video that they backtrack a bit and call it “tactical laziness” by Nintendo. Honestly, I did not get that far on my first watch.

[0] YouTube now confusingly shows different titles randomly. I’m seeing “Nintendo’s Greed could Change the Tech Industry” but that may not be its real title for all I know.

masklinn• 11 months ago

The video did very much suggest it was intentional but did so implicitly.

It explicitly stopped short of explicitly suggesting it due to a lack of evidence.

Gigachad3• 11 months ago

The Switch 1 had more of an excuse since it was released just as USB-C, particularly the more advanced parts like video out and PD were still very new. And the hardware was likely designed long beforehand.

The Switch 2 came out in a world with widespread standards compliant USB-C.

dagmx2• 11 months ago

I feel like that’s a significant retcon.

Switch 1 was released in 2017. PD 1.0 was 2013 , and display port out was 2014. Both were supported by numerous devices by the time the switch 1 was out.

Granted they really wanted hdmi alt mode which was 2016 but the switch 1 doesn’t even support display port out which could have been coupled with a converter in the dock.

The simpler reason is that Nintendo both cheaps out on parts and has no incentive to increase compatibility. The number of users who care is not worth it for Nintendo to care, and they’re not afoul of any regulations.

viraptor3• 11 months ago

Some labels/descriptions could use a bit more polish. For example in test 8 "Averages 15 W delivered to the Switch at maximum." - I kinda see what they mean, but that's a very awkward way to phrase it. The maximum is over 20W. There's a few spikes that go over. I guess that's the maximum for a moving average? For their labs, they could be more precise.

mystifyingpoi• 11 months ago

Agreed. Also I'm curious about "measured before AC adapter" - what? Does it mean that this data includes the losses from the AC adapter?

alex_f_k• 11 months ago

From lttlabs:

The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification

From the verge [0], 2 months ago:

When I analyze the conversation between the Nintendo Switch 2 and its dock, I can see the two devices begin speaking in Nintendo’s own flavor of “vendor defined” language early in the conversation, before they sign off on any video output. And then, seemingly before the dock confirms that it’s engaged video-out, they send over 30 proprietary “unstructured” messages to one another.
[…]
According to Antank, which says it checked with its chip supplier, that hexadecimal string “is indeed the current key being used by Nintendo.” My other sources are less sure.

I'm pretty sure lttl's conclusion is plain wrong. It is not JUST lazy USB-C implementation, but a purposefully designed special proprietary protocol on top of USB-C

[0] https://www.theverge.com/report/695915/switch-2-usb-c-third-...

notrealyme123• 11 months ago

At least on the video they made it quite clear that they assumed thant Nintendo did it on purpose, but they did not have enough proof to actually say it.

So instead they sad "Nintendo stopped early with developing compatibility"

whatevaa3• 11 months ago

They had to tip toe around this to avoid lawsuits. In practice, they made it quite clear they think this is on purpose.

nintendohater• 11 months ago

It's called plausible deniability, i.e. Nintendo can claim they were just ignorant, and there's no proof of the contrary. That is, until EU rightfully fines them.

KeplerBoy4• 11 months ago

Seems Nintendo has good reasons not to support it with 3rd party devices: Their own dock has active cooling, so with generic dongles the switch wouldn't be able to enter the docked performance mode (or have to throttle down pretty soon) and would have to output a blurry mess to 4k screens.

Not a great user experience.

argsnd• 11 months ago

I recall reading that the dock’s cooling is for its own internals rather than those of the switch.

stoltzmann• 11 months ago

I would say that not having any video output is a worse user experience than having blurry video output.

crote2• 11 months ago

Sure, but what about 3rd party docks which do have adequate cooling? And how is it a good user experience to just silently refuse to work?

If Nintendo genuinely cared about experience they'd just follow the standard and work with any dock, then pop up a notification if it notices that the device is overheating - perhaps even with a "We recommend the official dock" text.

The current behaviour is completely unacceptable and needlessly user-hostile. There's no way around it: their USB-C implementation is broken.

whatevaa3• 11 months ago

Please don't shill and try to find straw man arguments. Plenty of 3rd party solutions can be better than first party and cost just as much. It's not just cheap junk.

franga2000• 11 months ago

That's not a good reason not to allow it, it's a good reason not to support it. If I do that and complain to Nintendo support about overheating, they can tell me to fuck off. Worst case it should give a scary popup saying "your dock isn't actively cooled so your device is likely to overheat". Absolutely no excuse for not allowing third-party docks though.

alpaca1288• 11 months ago

Would you rather have your phone refuse to charge for no apparent reason, or have it popup "slow USB charging" as it does when you connect it to a weaker charger?

Nintendo unnecessarily chose to make their device partially USB-C incompatible in an intransparent way. A lot of users will rely on this working (as it already did on the Switch 1) and then it just won't, and probably the user will just assume their third-party USB dongle is broken and maybe buy another one, which means Nintendo won't get anything out of it and the user will lose more money. Everyone loses but at least the pesky customer can't use a third-party product.

kevincox2• 11 months ago

It seems like this should be based on the observed situation rather than what the dock says? What if the fans of the official dock are stuck, dead or just pushed up against something? What if they ambient conditions are just so hot that the cooling isn't effective. What if a third party dock has better cooling?

burnte3• 11 months ago

There's never a good reason for a vendor to lock you in. There isn't a single problem that is actually solved that way. It is 100% always a money lock in tool and literally never about safety or security. Users using your product in ways you do not like is not a valid reason to do block them or sue them.

WmWsjA6B29B4nfk• 11 months ago

Our monitoring of the interactions with the USB-C monitor shows that the negotiation does not even get to the point of the Vendor Defined Messages(VDM) where the dock would theoretically have to send the correct responses.

arghwhat4• 11 months ago

There's a lot of misunderstandings about USB PD communication, in particular Vendor Defined Messages. The LTT video kept making this mistake, and mixing in misunderstandings around messages to the eMarker chip itself (SOP'). It was a painful watch.

Vendor Defined Messages have is part of any normal PD exchange, as they're simply anything that isn't defined by the PD spec itself. You'll see VDMs when connecting any device supporting more than just dumb charging, as it's used for all sorts of things like DisplayPort, Thunderbolt, eMarker identification, etc. - stuff we'd expect ehre.

The quote from Antak refers to just a single, possibly/likely proprietary, message. This could be to ID the dock on the basis of e.g. rejecting the switch 1 dock should one cram it in, or to reject switch 1 dongles. Maybe it's Nintendo speak for "dock capabilities: cooling", with the switch having no mode for docked gaming with reduced performance without cooling.

Intentional incompatibility, yes, but it's 1 message of an unknown type within bog standard USB-PD, not a "vendor defined lanugage" or "over 30 proprietary messages".

grishka2• 11 months ago

Why reject switch 1 accessories though? Sure the video resolution will have to be limited to 1080p, but that's kinda expected and I'm sure switch 2 can do that anyway

maccard• 11 months ago

The Nintendo switch was the poster child for “don’t standardise USB C, standardise the charging protocol”, and I used it as the poster child for why I disagree with USBC being a faux-standard

And here we are again.

rcxdude2• 11 months ago

Given the Verge seems to have mixed info from their sources and LTT is pulling their punches, it seems like it is at the very least not obvious that this is what they're doing. And at least one third-party seems to work with it, so it's plausible that it is not a cryptographically enforced incompatibility.

burnte3• 11 months ago

> The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification I'm pretty sure lttl's conclusion is plain wrong.

They stated it MAY be lazy, it MAY be intentional. They declined to state a singular conclusion so I 'm not sure how they're wrong. I think maybe you feel they're saying it's not, but they're actually saying "we don't have conclusive proof either way, but we could see either being true given Nintendo's history of laziness at some times and maliciousness at other times."

causality0• 11 months ago

I don't think it's a coincidence that both Switch 1 and Switch 2's usb-c compliance is a shambling wreck. It's pretty clear to me it's a good way to sow doubt and disability in the industry of third-party docks while maintaining perfect plausible deniability.

xahrepap• 11 months ago

I tried to use a USB-C HDMI dongle I had. But I assumed it was because the switch 2 was looking for something that could deliver enough power and actively cool it, like the first party dock does.

bubblebeard2• 11 months ago

Just one more reason not to buy a Switch 2. Seriously, Nintendo has become worse than Apple when it comes to treating their customers. I own hundreds of Nintendo games and every console they ever made, sometimes in multiples. But when I saw of all the shit they were trying to pull with the Switch 2 I decided I was done with that company for good.

bzzzt3• 11 months ago

Nintendo was and is primarily a toy company. The deal is if you buy their stuff you get entertainment. You're pretending it's a general purpose computer to make a point about interoperability, but it's neither. What kind of 'shit' do they pull with Switch 2 they already didn't with Switch 1? Both are expensive DRM locked game devices, Switch 2 is just a bit faster.

alpaca1288• 11 months ago

What kind of 'shit' do they pull with Switch 2 they already didn't with Switch 1?

The shit that the linked article is about, for one.

bubblebeard2• 11 months ago

For example, they retain the right now to brick your console remotely if you go against their usage policies. Which they retain the right to change at will. So, effectively you really do not own that console in any way shape or form. Shame really, used to like Nintendo once.

raldi2• 11 months ago

I was hoping this site was going to be a list of common chargers that worked with the Switch 2.

Cthulhu_2• 11 months ago

?? It's USB-C, "all" would be the answer. Unless I'm misinterpreting your hopes.

ansgri• 11 months ago

It's USB-C, "you'll never know" is the answer, often it's "kinda working, but extra slow". I consider having a cheap USB power meter a necessity at this point.

raldi2• 11 months ago

Oh my sweet summer child

yuiegi• 11 months ago

Back in COVID times, when I had all the time in the world, my Switch got bricked after I charged it using my laptop charger. Nintendo refused to honor its warranty, citing some mumbo jumbo about proprietary USB-C hardware. Fortunately, we have pretty good consumer protection laws here in Australia By the end of an entire two month saga, they sent me a brand new Switch.

I always did think it was odd that a USB-C cable that wasnt Nintendo could break my Switch.

wickedsight2• 11 months ago

It's not that strange. USB-C is a plug, not everyone who implements the plug also implements it correctly. Some chargers with a USB-C Plug might just send a fixed voltage over the cable, rather then implementing the protocols.

I'm not saying that's the case for you, but USB-C is a minefield and I've seen some weird things happen with USB-C plugs.

stephen_g4• 11 months ago

Usually a competently designed USB-C input should have over-voltage protection and short-to-VBUS protection for over 20V (25-28V). Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard, but a charger putting out over 20V without any PD negotiation would be absurdly wrong and dangerous...

So there are non-compliant plugs, but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly - either through ineptitude or foolish cost saving.

whatevaa3• 11 months ago

No, usb-c is a protocol too. Those devices (includinf switch charger) are garbage. Worst case it should just not charge, not damage something.

ShellfishMeme• 11 months ago

I've once received a USB-C charger with a portable breast milk warmer device that outputted 18V at 2A without doing PD negotiation.

That fried another device when I plugged it in.

This is non compliant in the EU, but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it.

We are talking about a charger that can fry any device and potentially cause a fire, coming with a product aimed at people with babies, that's clearly non compliant to be sold in the EU, and they are doing nothing at all. Pretty shocking if you ask me.

Cthulhu_2• 11 months ago

Wow that's some nonsense; if it was proprietary, they would've gone back to using their own connectors.

KeplerBoy4• 11 months ago

That's what we're discussing here. Nintendo is doing something proprietary with their usb-c video mode, hence it only works with their dock. Still a usb-c connector though, because they are dirt-cheap.

sersi• 11 months ago

I've bricked a samsung phone (galaxy s10+) using the switch usb c charger so that doesn't surprise me at all

hatsunearu• 11 months ago

USB-C was really really really rough in the early years. The switch 1 was one of the first products to come out with USB-C IIRC.

indrora• 11 months ago

Not even.

Early devices were things like the OnePlus 2 [0] and there were plenty of phones out before the Switch even hit the market in 2017 [1]. There were some issues with standards compliance, sure, but the market had vastly improved by the time the Switch had come out.

[0] https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_2-6902.php [1] https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMax=2017&nUSBType...

rsynnott2• 11 months ago

Nah; Apple's notoriously not-very-good 12" MacBook and the Chromebook Pixel had it since 2015, and Apple's more mainstream laptops since 2016. Nintendo doesn't really have any excuse for the original Switch's problematic USB-C beyond laziness: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803

rs1862• 11 months ago

"rough" doesn't explain any of what's happening here.

Nintendo messed up, that's it.

szatkus• 11 months ago

Switch 2 seems to be more up to standard. I was able to charge it with a normal phone charger and also the Switch 2 charger seems to work with everything else unlike the one for Switch 1. Fortunately I never bricked anything with that, but it just never worked with anything other than the console.

mmis10003• 11 months ago

Switch 1 require the charger to support pd2 12v to charge at all. Some changer may decide to skip that voltage, and support only 9v and 15v. So Switch is not happy about it.

Every device in my room except for switch supports more than one voltage config. Wondering why on the earth switch decided to handle voltage setting like this.

Usually, pd charger will label their supported voltage config. And you can read that label to find out whether a charger will work with switch or not.

Source: I do use my phone charger to charge switch during traveling

mmis10003• 11 months ago

Also notice, some charger will disable part of the supported voltages when there are more than one device connected. Mine apparently drops 12v when there are other device connected (thus prevented switch 1 from charging)

mmis10003• 11 months ago

Back in that time, my switch broke twice. And I eventually find out. If I am using one of the e-marked wire with the switch, the port get destroyed immediately. Every single device in my room works with that wire exactly like it should. Except for switch. Their typec port is so broken, and not broke in a safe way.

reactordev4• 11 months ago

They did this to micro sd cards on the first switch. Looks like they found another way. Nintendo isn’t customer friendly. Gone are the days of the N64 and gone are the days of Nintendo pushing the boundaries of fun and entertainment.

Now, they make underpowered handhelds for kids with proprietary dongles like Apple in hopes of trapping their customers to their platform.

No thanks.

whateveracct• 11 months ago

They also threaten to sue grassroots scenes playing their >20yo games. Scenes that spend on their own dime to host 1000+ entrant tournaments and use skilled time to push the old game to the limit. (Melee). They have the scene currently in a legal stranglehold. It's partially gagged, but people who host Melee events are beholden to Nintendo so they can't run even lightly modded gameplay.

Melee runs on mods always nowadays (input processing patches for fairness and bugfixes), but they mod it in a way that doesn't have any visible difference so they get away with it.

Podrod• 11 months ago

Nintendo have always been a company making toys for kids. Kid toys that are also fun for adults but still primarily for kids.

It's the same company as when you were a kid playing N64 or SNES or NES or whatever, just now you're older and jaded.

reactordev4• 11 months ago

Nope, the old guard has passed away. It’s not the same.

divingdragon• 11 months ago

They did this to micro sd cards on the first switch.

What do you mean? From what I know it was bog-standard microSD(HC/XC) with the maximum supported speed being UHS-I with nothing proprietary.

ninjatendo• 11 months ago

It's more nuanced than that. The nintendo software prevents things, like save games, being saved at places which it deems unworthy.

op00to2• 11 months ago

Like the Game Boy? Or the 3DS?

reactordev4• 11 months ago

The Switch v1, not the v2 OLED. The 3DS had their own memory card “format”

audunw• 11 months ago

Weird comparison. With N64 everything was proprietary. The power brick, the memory card, the controllers. With Switch a lot more follows standards. USB-C charging. SD for storage. Bluetooth for controllers and headsets.

I don’t see a single reason to think Nintendo of that time would do anything differently.

The reason for not accepting whatever dock/adapter seems pretty good in this case. The dock should have active cooling to conform to user expectations. And there’s no signs that Nintendo will prevent anyone from making a dock that supports it as long as it follows the procedure to confirm that it has active cooling.

kjkjadksj• 11 months ago

When has nintendo not tried to trap customers to their platform? Every single piece of the n64 is proprietary.

rowanG077• 11 months ago

At such times I wish the USB consortium would flex their muscles. A high profile case that maliciously breaks interoperability.

ACCount37• 11 months ago

USB consortium itself has written a standard for implementing DRM to restrict third party accessories. Which isn't even what Nintendo used there.

Still, don't expect anything good to come from them on that front.

rs1862• 11 months ago

If USB consortium cared about being consumer friendly, they would have mandated that USB cables clearly mark their capabilities, and require that every cable must transmit data.

Instead we have this mess where you don't know whether a cable is good for laptop charging, and whether that same cable can be used for data in addition to charging. (skipping that data wire saves a few cents, that sounds like a great idea!)

So nothing will come out of them regarding Nintendo's behavior.

ronsor• 11 months ago

People often buy USB cables without data wires for security reasons, so personally I would like to keep them around.

tropicalfruit• 11 months ago

for me buying switch 2 is like giving a key to my front door to nintendos lawyers

masfoobar2• 11 months ago

With the behaviour Nintendo has been 'in the last few years' - I no longer will purchase Nintendo consoles.

We purchased a Switch and the kids have enjoyed many games on it. After reading other comments on here, I am surprised my Switch has not been bricked - and I am not doing anything dodgy at all.

As for the Switch 2. I was showing the announcement videos with the kids - they did not look excited for it. As for me, I was smirking when they were not revealing the price of the console and games. I knew something was up. Within hours there were angry youtube channels blasting their prices.

I am not even getting into Nintendo's legal behaviours over ROMs, youtube channels, or games like Palworld.

"Oh.. that thing you do in this game... Yeah... we have a patent for that!"

Of course, every game Nintendo creates are completely new ideas. Sure, I give Nintendo credit with their involvement in video game history - but I am sure "new features" in Mario Kart World are inspired from other games..... but if you do something Nintendo consider is their idea (especially patented) - they will throw money at you *towards their legal department*

Nintendo are not a family-based games company. They lost that title some time, now. Unless they really change their ways, I wont buy Nintendo again. I do not support their practices. Sure we might not have Mario Kart World or Zelda or other Nintendo specific titles - but a decent PC have many, many great games of the last 30 years - and they will run faster, smoother, etc.

This Dock <--> USB-C drama is just laughable.

GuB-42• 11 months ago

Sure we might not have Mario Kart World or Zelda or other Nintendo specific titles

Well, that's why people buy Nintendo consoles. You don't buy a Switch 2, you buy the device needed to play Mario Kart and Zelda, whatever it is.

In general, consoles are defined by their games, they are not general purpose machines and everything is to be seen from this angle. Hardwares specs don't matter, what matter is how well the games you want to play run. It is even more so with Nintendo as they have generally less powerful hardware with some of the best games as exclusive licenses.

masfoobar2• 11 months ago

If people want to spend £400 on a console, as well as £40-£100 on Nintendo games is their choice. I am sure there are many people who purchased a Switch 2 on launch day and now regret it, likely due to Nintendo's practices. If anything, it likely has made more people aware of Nintendo's behaviour in the last number of years.

With this, despite the fact Switch 2 might sell well this generation - I think Nintendo need to be very cautious next time. We shall see.

Personally, and I am not poor, but I think it's expensive to purchase Switch 2 + games when I legally do not own them. You are getting what seems to be known as a Revocable License.

This means many things. Its not just Nintendo cancelling or bricking your Switch 2 when you do (or presumably) something naughty... it means Nitendo can officially push for end of life to the console itself. While Nintendo may not do this to the Switch 2, servers for games eventually will. Paying nearly £100 for a game that might stop working in 7 years... unless you pay another £500 for their next console and move it over. LOL!!!!!

It does not make sense to pay this sort of money when it blurs the lines of ownership. We can go back-and-forth on this all day, but if people have no issues and still want to buy a Switch 2 is up to them. Again.. It's is their choice and I respect that.

I have explained this issue to my kids and they understand my point of view and why I wont buy a Switch 2. Of course, if they want to buy one with their own money - they can.

The type of model Nintendo are pushing works better like a Netflix monthly subscription.. or... perhaps more comparable to XBox Game pass. They will likely do this next time. I am just interested what their monthly price will be. I am sure it will be laughable!

The older generation can see past all the BS.. but the younger generation will blindly accept it. When they get older and see the differences to their first purchase.. then they can moan like I am now. It wont matter.. as the next younger gen will rinse and repeat. The cycle continue.

To me, like many things, the best way to make a statement is with your wallet. That's all I am doing. If I am the minority then so be it. I might be pointed or laughed at - but atleast I stood by my principles.

(Its similar with Microsoft Windows license going back to the 90s. I dont own it. I purchase the right to use it. I dont agree with it, so I use Linux.)

rickdeckard• 11 months ago

"The Nintendo Switch 2 only ever charges at a maximum of 15 W(as far as I can tell)."

This is already higher than stated in legal EU-compliance documents [0], where the PD-charger is required to not provide more than 12W "in order to achieve the maximum charging speed"

Also interesting[0]: "TV mode requires output power of 54 watts. This is higher than the power requirements for charging given above. This product supports USB PD fast charging and is capable of being recharged by means of wired charging at voltages up to 15 volts"

According to this, the device will obviously only use the 20V/3A mode (=60 watts) for TV mode, and will not utilize it for charging. Whereas the provided charger (NGN-01) also supports a 15V USB-PD mode which MAY be used for charging.

I assume the device will request max. 15V/1A for charging then, adding up to 15W (not sure why they state the charger should not support "more than 12W"). However, I guess at 15V the majority of power in this state is going to the device and not the battery (they only have a single battery-cell which should be charged with 5V. If they want to charge the battery, they could also request 5V/3A from the charger)...

[0] https://www.nintendo.com/eu/media/downloads/support_1/ninten...

blueflow• 11 months ago

I mean, we are already at the point where you have to put a colored tape on all your usb plugs and sockets to know which ones are compatible and which ones will brick your devices. Maybe its time to drop the "universal" aspect and go back to propietary ports?

Kurtz79• 11 months ago

That makes no sense. No one sane wants to go back to a time where all mobile electronics had separate chargers, especially since the number of mobile devices we use on a daily basis is higher than ever before.

If anything, manufacturers that are able to provide working, compatible solutions should be preferred by consumers to those that don't, and the laws of economics will take care of the rest.

But some of those manufacturers have large loyal customer bases that will find ways to justify them even if they were to employ child labor, so there is that.

vel0city2• 11 months ago

If I have a cable that sucks, I don't bother tagging it. It just goes in the bin. If it doesn't list what its ratings are, I don't buy it. Why bother keeping cables that don't do what you need it to do? Why bother buying cables that don't fit your needs?

I'm far happier that I only have one charger in my backpack that works for practically all my portable electronics. I'm far happier I've got an extra power bank in my bag that works with one cable to charge practically all my portable electronics and can be charged by that one wall adapter. I'm far happier I have one dock cable on my desk that provides power/kvm/network to my work laptop, my personal laptop, my spouse's tablet, etc. Far better than having a dozen different cables for a dozen different devices.

lxgr• 11 months ago

EPR even supports up to 240 W! Plenty of power for any device you'd reasonably power with USB-C.

I feel (or rather hope) we'll see more than that at some point. Being able to replace device-specific wall adapters would be a huge win. This has largely already happened for everything that needs 10 watts or less, but between that and things that actually need a lot of power (i.e. kilowatts, not watts) and/or benefit from AC (mostly motors), there's still an annoying valley of power bricks.

I especially hate the type that's hard-wired to the power plug that blocks 1-2 other outlets due to its bulk and inevitably gets lost during a move or trip to storage and back.

mathis• 11 months ago

The situation with chargers isn’t ideal. With a single USB-C port, everything works fine.

The problem starts when multiple ports are involved. Plugging in a second device can trigger unpredictable behavior, which is usually acceptable for battery-powered devices. But for devices that need a continuous power supply (e.g., a Raspberry Pi), multi-port chargers aren’t reliable –– connecting another device may briefly interrupt power.

Using a traditional power strip with one dedicated adapter per device avoids this issue.

For now, I’m sticking with individual USB-C adapters for non-battery-powered devices.

avianlyric4• 11 months ago

It’s a limitation of the early versions of the PD spec. The PD spec now includes features that allow a device to express its needed power draw, and wanted power draw, along with info like the fact they’re a battery pack.

In addition the spec now has messages that allow a charger to renegotiate the PD contract with a device with resetting the entire USB-C connection. So if you have chargers and devices that support these elements, you can connect and disconnect devices with interrupting the power to anything else connected. The charger just does a live renegotiation and redistribution of its available power envelope.

Also means that when a phone and battery pack get plugged in, the charger can pull power allocation from the battery pack to send to the phone so the phone charges first. Then once the phone is charged, reallocate the power budget to the battery packs again.

L_226• 11 months ago

Hmm - I use a switch pro controller USB C -C cable to charge my Pixel 8 sometimes, and I notice that the phone often starts and stops charging while plugged in. Maybe there's some extra hardware in that cable...

captainmuon• 11 months ago

So, as there are a couple of docks coming out that work with Switch 2 and have apparently reverse engineered the protocol... I wonder if some company could make a small dongle that just sits between the switch and my monitor, or my USB-C docking station, and fixes the communication.

For a DIY solution, protocol wise it doesn't seem too complicated, but electronically USB-C or HDMI is out of reach for most hobbyists. And I assume most USB-C interface chips you can get aren't programmable to the degree neccessary...

joshstrange• 11 months ago

I have a different random 5-letter company name version of this one [0] (the one I bought [1]) that LTT tested. I was nervous after remembering stories about Switch 1 “USB-C” shenanigans but at $28 (vs $124 for the original dock) I decided to roll the dice.

As far as working as a replacement dock for the original, it does the job very nicely while being smaller and easier to use overall (IMHO). At $28/ea I can afford to have a dock on every TV I would even consider playing my Switch on at less than the cost of 1 official dock.

[0] https://antank.net/products/s3-max

[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FCF8PV2H

martini333• 11 months ago

The LTT video was painful to watch. I don’t know much about USB or USB-PD, but it was clear they didn’t either. It felt like they were just rambling with some vaguely technical jargon, with no actual understanding.

prism56• 11 months ago

It seemed more like the technical guy wrote the post and 'they' made it into a video format without really explaining it.

I think they did a bad job. They struck a poor balance between not explaining it and trying to explain it. They should have gone full technical or not at all and stayed very high level regarding the issue of bespoke protocols.

aejtaetj2• 11 months ago

The bespoke protocol was the issue.

fxtentacle2• 11 months ago

"Test 5: DR_SWAP always rejected"

That means the monitor tries to change its own role from USB host (which it defaulted to because it's the power source) to USB gadget. And the Switch rejects the request because it sees itself as the USB gadget (for example to exchange data when you connect it to a PC).

The article itself also says "Our monitoring of the interactions with the USB-C monitor shows that the negotiation does not even get to the point of the Vendor Defined Messages(VDM)" so I see no hint of foul play by Nintendo. (And why would they? They are not in the business of selling USB monitors.)

My guess would be that the connection failure is due to a firmware bug in the monitor. But I am also heavily biased here because my last Asus screen had A LOT of firmware issues.

cma3• 11 months ago

And why would they? They are not in the business of selling USB monitors

Not true, they block nreal to make them pay the store fee for an enabling app to make their usbc mini monitors work with the switch.

fxtentacle2• 11 months ago

Assuming that you are referring to the Nreal Air VR goggles, those cannot accept a regular video signal over USB-C. They are NOT monitors. For making them work, they need to do pre-processing of the video stream on the host device, thereby degrading gaming performance. That's why they need an app, because they lack an integrated CPU/GPU and that makes them not compliant with the USB-C monitor spec.

And I believe that's also the real reason why Nintendo would block them: They make otherwise fluent games stutter, which will reflect badly on Nintendo and the game developers. Because people in general won't know that their Nreal Air is stealing some of the Switch's GPU performance and that they are creating performance issues themselves.

jokoon• 11 months ago

I guess hardware vendors are allowed to make USBC devices that goes outside the USBC specs? Although this seems to be within the USBC spec?

Would be interesting if future hardware standards would not allow to be licensed as "within standard" if they break a few rules.

I could see some hardware vendors using their own implementation of a standard just to fool customers into believing it supports a standard while there are exceptions.

Isn't that what happened to bluetooth?

I am not an apple user, but isn't apple also abusing hardware standards to encourage clients to buy its products?

ziml77• 11 months ago

Interestingly, there don't seem to be limitations the other way around. I saw a video of someone running a USB-C extension cable into the dock and using that to hook up a Steam Deck to it. It seemed to be fully capable and interestingly even exposed VRR, something that the Switch 2 itself gives you no option for when docked.

aejtaetj2• 11 months ago

For consoles, it was actually the original Xbox that started this trend, using a proprietary physical connector, but with a mostly standard usb protocol, for no other purpose than to be consumer hostile. Physical hacks was of course rapidly found in this case to adapt it to be standard compliant.

Then again, with xbox360/kinect, the camera was using the usb procotol, but microsoft prevented it from working with pcs in windows. Instead you had to buy a several times more expensive "pc" version, that had the same specs, except for having the malicious compliance tech was removed.

I guess nintendo learned from this.

extraduder_ire• 11 months ago

There was no standard USB connector that the original xbox could have used that still had magnetic attachment.

goosedragons2• 11 months ago

The Xbox breakaway controller cables weren't magnetic. They also could have easily put those on normal USB cables because they were a couple inches from the port anyways.

nocoiner• 11 months ago

“* The Nintendo Switch 2 dock will request 3 A at 20 V from the point of connection, whether it is planning to use that power or not. * This is in contrast to the Antank dock which will request additional power only when the Switch 2 is turned on and requires additional power. Arguably a better 'citizen' of the USB-C PD specification, potentially bringing your electricity bill down by a few cents”

Why would this bring your power bill down? Isn’t that always going to be calculated on the basis of kWh actually drawn?

b0dhimind• 11 months ago

So what's the best portable emulation device that connects to HDMI too?

Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

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