I drank every cocktail

https://aaronson.org/blog/i-drank-every-cocktail

by colinprince • 12 months ago

413 223 12 months ago

Jeremy1026• 12 months ago

So, looks like you narrowed down your favorite to either the Porto Flip or the Rabo de Galo. If you had to pick one, which would you say is your favorite?

aaaronson4• 12 months ago

They're so different and hard to compare, but considering I've had three rabo de galos now and loved them every time, I'm leaning in that direction

imustachyou• 12 months ago

Very fun! Would love to see a tier list to start checking off myself, and maybe a caption for the pictures

bravesoul2• 12 months ago

Damn I thought it was going to be https://scottaaronson.blog/ and wondered what cocktail was an analogy for, or if he just had a fine night out.

mikhailfranco• 12 months ago

There is a podcast from Sean Carroll about cocktails, if you like your mixology from a physics & philosophy guy:

Mindscape 307 | Kevin Peterson on the Theory of Cocktails

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCSmrdzistc

rbranson• 12 months ago

If you wanna run thru this list and get a tally, I quickly created this lovable app: https://cocktail-checkered-log.lovable.app/. I'm at 68/102!

vincefutr23• 12 months ago

Does this maintain state if navigate away ?

imrehg• 12 months ago

Yes, the site seems to save the checked cocktails into Local Storage (you can click some, and in your browser's inspection tools you can check. Eg. in Firefox > Inspect > Storage > Local Storage, there's a key with "cocktail-tracker").

I've checked and closing/reopening works (of course locally only, no incognito tabs, etc...)

tristor3• 12 months ago

Nice, I'm at 75/102 apparently. Some of these I haven't heard of.

pnt123• 12 months ago

Cool! 27 here! And I thought of myself as a connoisseur!

jsbg2• 12 months ago

my favorite cocktail these days is the bijou, which you can think of as a negroni with green chartreuse instead of campari, and with orange bitters—you wouldn't think chartreuse and italian vermouth would make a good drink but it's fantastic

bonus if garnished with a green olive

jfengel• 12 months ago

I'm out of chartreuse. Think it'll work with absinthe?

jamestimmins3• 12 months ago

That'll give you a totally different drink. Chartreuse and absinthe both have strong but different flavors; not to mention that a bijou has 3/4oz of chartreuse but that much absinthe would totally overpower any other ingredient.

voxadam2• 12 months ago

It would be radically different. I love absinthe but there's a special place in my heart for Green Chartreuse.

Damn, now I want a Last Word.

p1necone• 12 months ago

Chartreuse doesn't really have any good substitutes that I can think of, it's got a very distinct flavour that's nothing like absinthe (I like to lovingly describe it as lawn steeped in everclear).

Still make the drink with absinthe and see how it goes though - it'll taste totally different but it might still be good, and the ABV and (lack of) sweetness of chartreuse and absinthe are at least fairly close.

jsbg2• 12 months ago

in the best case you'll invent a new drink but I doubt it'll be very good; start with a very small amount instead of using the same proportions as with chartreuse and you may get somewhere interesting, like a gin sazerac kind of drink

williamdclt2• 12 months ago

Finding Chartreuse is harder than it used to be. The monks decided to reduce production.

moehm3• 12 months ago

No, they didn't reduce production, they just stopped scaling it with the rising demand.

Chartreuse got very popular in the last few years, and the monks started to produce more, but now they are at a point where they feel they a) earn enough money for the monastery and b) they claim scaling further hurts the sustainability.

So instead of producing more, they allocate the existing stock mostly to the hospitality business instead of the private consumer.

BSOhealth2• 12 months ago

Very cool motivation around personal “lists” generally!

Gin took me the longest to “get” and subtle cocktails that play to its strengths seem to have had the most lasting appeal.

Whiskey drinks are great but I’d usually just rather have a nice whiskey straight, versus diluted with sugar. Whiskey+wine has some good combos.

Likewise with tequila.

Rum/rhum I still don’t get the sipping side, so cocktails is still the go-to there. A splash of nice white wine+rum has been a recent successful experiment.

Vodka… well what’s the point?

shagie• 12 months ago

While its a "you really should have it straight..."

One of the things that I've found is various advent calendars of a given type or theme of spirit. I've had three different ones for gin (several different ways to approach it) and I've found great variety in them while maintaining an amount of "yep, that's gin."

There are subtle gins and not so subtle gins. The one that was the least subtle was Hepple Gin ( https://theginisin.com/gin-reviews/hepple-gin/ ) which if you notice on that chart has a very high juniper flavor profile.

The nose is delicately spicy with lots of juniper. Green, piney-juniper, fir branch, with a bit of citrus tinged herbal notes beneath it.

https://hepplespirits.com/products/hepple-gin - note the equipment for the process.

I also had a South American gin... which was "ok, instead of old world botanicals and base, new world." It was gin... but it certainly wasn't London gin.

If I had to have a gin gin, moonshot was my favorite.

If you're curious about it... in September start looking for them.

gleenn• 12 months ago

I was in the same boat about sipping rum not being very interesting until I found Zacapa Guatemalan rum. It's relatively common and reasonably priced and very delicious coming from someone who likes whiskey neat and also many cocktails. If you wanna feont the cash for the Zacapa XO for ~$125+/bottle then you are in for an amazing treat.

b_e_n_t_o_n2• 12 months ago

Vodka is for adding to juice or simple drinks (oj, cranberry, lemonade etc), and when you don't want to muddle up the flavour of something else. Or for shots of course :)

Nursie• 12 months ago

Rum/rhum I still don’t get the sipping side

There's a vast variety and some is great, some not so much. There are very sweet, delicious rums like Diplomatico Reserva Exclusiva, which is tasty but a little bit on the syrupy side. Then there are delicious but less sweet rums like Appleton Estate, Flor de Cana, Havana Club, Mount Gay, El Dorado etc. Ron Zacapa is very sippable too, and very approachable, and I think their solera 23 makes a really good entry point to the 'genre'.

As with whisky, the older the rum, the more complex and in general 'better' they tend to be, and the various 'XO' versions of Zacapa etc are more refined again.

I prefer to stick to the bigger names like those above, which is not to say there aren't good rums from newer or smaller places, but if you're just starting out these are some good, solid makers to begin to develop your palate. I guess a bit like recommending someone start an exploration of Scotch with a taste of Ardbeg, Highland Park, Macallan etc - get to know the big names a little before you experiment.

Spiced rums can be delicious sipped, but the cheaper end of the market often use their flavouring to mask a poor underlying spirit. See Sailor Jerry, Kraken, and other highly-flavoured rums like Pink Pigeon. Bumbu is good though and (surprisingly?) so is Captain Morgans Private Stock. I generally stay away from anything else labelled Captain Morgan. Purists will argue that any/all spiced rums are not really rum, because they are flavoured and almost all are heavily sweetened and so should be called 'rum liqueur'. It's not an argument I'd like to partake in particularly.

Avoid white rums unless mixing, IMHO. Anything claiming to be Navy rum is probably a bit rough (I'm not a fan of Pussers). And stay away from "Stroh 80", that stuff tastes like burning tyres.

I don't really drink rum any more, but when I did ... I drank all the rums!

psalaun• 12 months ago

Longueteau white rhums can be sipped, they are very floral. Taste like pure fresh sugar cane, without the sweet side. Their 62° is great for ti'punch.

dluan• 12 months ago

Generally with rum, you have to be wary of undisclosed dosing. Spanish distilleries are the worst with this, but even Plantaray (fka Plantation) does this. Single barrels from reputable producers will give you good results.

microtherion2• 12 months ago

A few years ago, I discovered Rhum agricole (Made directly from freshly squeezed sugarcane, instead of molasses), and it's my preference now.

cess114• 12 months ago

I'm quite fond of the Bumbu XO, spiced but not overly sweet. Nice bottle too.

Stroh 80 sucks on its own, but as a component of a cocktail it's actually quite nice. Try mixing it into warm toddy or tonic based drink depending on season, and use roughly half the amount you'd use of a 40% spirit.

ramses0• 12 months ago

Check TheGinIsIn.com to learn why you like your favorite. So much dramatic variety in gin styles!

addaon7• 12 months ago

Did you, though? Many great cocktails (including ones on the IBA list) are really show cases of a very specific liqueur or spirit... and when that product dies, you may have something similar, or something inspired by, or something attempting to recreate... but you haven't had the classic cocktail. For example, unless you stir up a new-old-stock bottle of Kina Lillet (and its flavor has held up over time), I'd argue that you haven't had a Vesper.

RajT88• 12 months ago

Lillet Blanc is supposed to be the closest you can get. But admittedly, it is likely different.

I would bet there are some DIY infusions out there which nail it though.

addaon7• 12 months ago

I think most would consider Cocchi Americano much closer than Lillet Blanc -- modern Lillet has basically no bitterness. But that's rather the point, and at some level, the challenge -- a cocktail is designed around and balanced around its ingredients, so when you change one, you have to rebalance it. For a showcase cocktail like a Vesper, I'd consider that a new cocktail -- in the same way that an Aperol Negroni is not a Negroni. And when making a non-showcase cocktail with spirits called out by family, your job is to balance around the selected ingredients. A Woodford + Carpano Antica Manhattan is not going to optimize at the same ratio as a Basil Haden + Dolin Rouge Manhattan, for example.

BSOhealth2• 12 months ago

I get the downvotes, kind of omitting his qualification in the very first sentence.

but if this really interests you it seems like an obvious opportunity for something like “the 102 impossible drinks” or something. figure out the DIY recipes and go to YT

addaon7• 12 months ago

his qualification

Are you referring to "every" cocktail meaning "every IBA" cocktail? No complaints there, that's just headline writing.

But there's a reason I called out the Vesper -- it's on the list! And I'd argue it's the cocktail on the list that, most obviously, no one can make today. It's not a cocktail that allows creativity or substitution in its ingredients -- it's specifically a showcase of Kina Lillet -- and its key ingredient isn't available today. The correct response to someone ordering a Vesper should be "I can't make you that, but maybe you'd like a <something related>." (Or, honestly, "meh, we can do better than that" -- it's a mediocre cocktail at best, but that's not the point.)

microtherion2• 12 months ago

I sort of understand the motivation to get the exact flavor of the cocktail recipe (especially with an ingredient like Kina Lillet), but for the most part, I find ingredients specified by brand name somewhat annoying, especially for home bars.

addaon7• 12 months ago

It rather depends how specific the flavor of the ingredient is, though. Not everything has generic versions. "Maker's Mark" instead of "bourbon" probably doesn't add anything to a recipe -- exploring other bourbons is likely to give good results, although it may be valuable if the bourbon specified has particularly unusual characteristics that the drink is balanced around. And even Cointreau instead of triple sec is silly (in my opinion), although Grand Marnier is different enough to call out (and to expect some work needed when subbing). But for something like Green Chartreuse... it's a brand name, sure, but it's also what it is; there's nothing else like it, nothing else that you can use to build the same drink. And Kina Lillet is in that category. There are plenty of "brand name" drinks that were never popular enough to generate near-exact clones, and are gone to the giant Long Island Ice Tea in the sky.

jamestimmins3• 12 months ago

Such a fun and entertaining read. I'd never suggest someone give up a software career to become a food writer, but I'd love to read more of OP's writing as he pursues these goals.

aaaronson4• 12 months ago

Writer of the post here, really appreciate this! When I was really little I did say I wanted to be a food critic when I grew up...

gms• 12 months ago

I also found this to be a fun read! Was intending to skim but ended up reading the whole thing. The level of care shines through - nice work.

pragmatick• 12 months ago

Hi! I wondered why the Gin Basil Smash is in the column with rare, specialized ingredients? Sounds pretty basic to me, especially compared with the other cocktails in the list.

lenocinor• 12 months ago

I drank the whole list too, but back when it was a lot easier due to having less cocktails on it, as you note in your post. Sent you an email!

userbinator• 12 months ago

He wouldn't be the first to go from software to alcoholic beverages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Pietrek

gpderetta• 12 months ago

Arguably, jwz counts as well.

justsomehnguy• 12 months ago

After 20 years you really want to be a goat farmer or a food critic/writer whatever.

And some happy folks figure this earlier.

jamestimmins3• 12 months ago

I spend all of my free time woodworking; thankfully it only took me 10 years to find the power of hobbies.

gammarator• 12 months ago

I’m surprised the author didn’t try to make more at home! Personally I’m a fan of the apps at https://mixologytech.com/, especially “Modern Classics.”

getup8• 12 months ago

I had a similar obsession with cocktails starting in 2019 after moving out of NYC and missing it. So I started making my way through the Death & Company book and it inspired https://www.cocktaillove.com to keep track of everything and know what I could actually make given the ingredients on hand. It’s been a fun side project ever since, and I’ve made a little over 200 (and photographed them all) so far.

mNovak4• 12 months ago

These are your photography? Looks very nice!

MuffinFlavored2• 12 months ago

I have more than a drink or two in one night

I'm curious the opinion of those here on this.

Are you able to be classified as "having a problem with alcohol" if you "only have 2 drinks a night" a lot?

rpmisms• 12 months ago

Can you skip a night and not miss it, and does it negatively affect your life? If there's no ill effects and you're not dependent, I don't see a problem.

MuffinFlavored2• 12 months ago

Sure. But over the course of 90 days, I feel like there's regression/reversion towards the mean. Average a few drinks a week kind of thing.

Skip a night, sure.

Skip it for 3 months... probably not.

Is that how addiction starts?

stronglikedan2• 12 months ago

Can't know just from that one data point. A "problem with alcohol" is a lack of self control, like, if you're social and have dinner out with friends most nights a week, do you feel compelled to have a couple drinks on nights you're home doing nothing in particular.

samdoesnothing2• 12 months ago

Having just a couple of drinks is hardly a lack of self control. The whole bottle or 6 pack on the other hand...

shpongled• 12 months ago

I think you cropped out the important part of the quote:

It’s rare that I have more than a drink or two in one night.

I don't drink that often any more, but 2-3 drinks in a night, done occasionally is not a problem. I've had weeks where I drink a beer (or two!) every night, and also don't struggle with any alcohol problems.

2 drinks every single night? Leaning that way - and not great for you just from a health/caloric perspective.

Jtsummers• 12 months ago

I always wonder why people would make such obvious selective edits that completely change the meaning of a sentence and quote it as if it was what the author intended.

Do they not think people will notice? Or do they not notice that they've even done it?

samdoesnothing2• 12 months ago

Given that there are a ton of people having ~2 drinks a night (big glass of wine, couplabeers, generous pour of whisky), especially in Europe, I can't see 2 drinks a night as someone having a "problem". It's not nearly enough to get drunk so they're simply enjoying the taste/experience. It's like asking if someone who eats a chocolate bar every day has a problem.

alexjplant• 12 months ago

It depends on your parasympathetic nervous system tone. After getting a fitness tracker that analyzes sleep and heart rate variability I've discovered that my body is rather sensitive to alcohol. I need to have a baseline level of cardiovascular endurance and be properly hydrated with good electrolyte balance to be able to truly enjoy two drinks. If I'm not doing moderate-intensity cardio five times a week and taking my supplements, then even moderate boozing will tank my HRV and negatively affect my sleep. Bad sleep means diminished cognitive performance and lethargy to the point that I'm not giving the world the best version of myself. To answer your question: yes, if I'm having two drinks a night and not taking care of myself I'd consider that to be a problem. A lot of people are probably in a similar boat but don't have the data to spot it so they just keep wearing themselves down in a half-tired haze.

I've also discovered that brown liquors are twice as bad for me in this regard so I now try to stick to wine, sake, or gin. I'm not mad at this as I've grown rather tired of what bourbon culture has seemingly become... the capitalization, enshittification and marketing games have largely put me off from the category.

plorkyeran• 12 months ago

1-2 drinks every night (which is not what the author said they were doing there) can be anywhere from not a problem at all to high-functioning alcoholic. I think the simplest way to tell where on the gradient someone is is how they handle a night where they don't get a chance to have a drink. Is it something that's not remotely a problem and they wouldn't even realize it was the first night in a while they hadn't had a drink? Is it something that bothers them but they'll deal with it? Is the idea unthinkable and they always have alcohol on them so that they can sneak a sip even in circumstances where it's inappropriate?

ReptileMan2• 12 months ago

Depends. In Easter Europe this classifies you as the designated driver.

whiterook6• 12 months ago

This was a pleasant read. I want a goal like this to try and achieve. Neat!

senjin• 12 months ago

I agree! It's really nice to have a goal like this that could take you years to accomplish because you have no deadline. I did the same thing with a list of some of the best scifi [1] over the course of 15 years or so. I would get into a series and read the whole thing before moving on or really get into an author for a while. Some books are the 2nd, 3rd or 5th book in a series (looking at you Murderbot...) so you kind of have to read the preceding books. You could read the whole list in a couple years but it was really nice to work through it really slowly.

Anyway, I think this list of cocktails will be my next long term goal

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_joint_winners_of_the_H...

owenversteeg• 12 months ago

For those that are getting into cocktails, by far the best piece of advice I can give is: know when the quality of ingredients matter and when they don’t. If it’s a very sugary/salty drink, or people are smoking, or already drunk, most people won’t care, but for a lot of cocktails the ingredients make a massive difference. The best bang for your buck is Carpano Antica, a sweet vermouth with real complexity to it; the worst value is high end vodka.

azhenley• 12 months ago

Do you have a ranked list of items that pay off to spend a bit more versus doesn’t matter?

addaon7• 12 months ago

#1) Good Maraschino cherries or similar.

refactor_master• 12 months ago

It's just simple food science really. Cooling things down reduces harshness and complexity. Sweetening things reduces harshness and complexity. So if you're going for something cool and sweet, don't mix it with high end liquors, because you probably won't really notice a big difference.

yojo6• 12 months ago

General rules for cocktails:

- Avoid the big brands for Tequila and Rum (Cuervo and Bacardi). There are exceptions, but it’s easier to skip.

- Cheap gin can be good or bad. Gordon’s is a reasonable entry. The step up is Beefeater or Tanqueray. There are a bajillion craft gins and you can skip them until you’re ready to go deep.

- Tequila should always say 100% puro de agave on the bottle. If it does not say this, do not buy it.

- Anything that says “straight bourbon” on the bottle is probably fine.

- For scotch, look for single malt (best) or blended malt (acceptable) if you plan on sipping it. For mixers, I like Bank Note or Famous Grouse. Avoid the lower tiers of the big blends (Johnny Walker, Dewars, etc) - they are mostly grain alcohol.

- I don’t have an opinion on Vodka. If you do for some reason want it, Polish brands seem to be the best value (Sobieski, Luksusowa, etc).

- For “rye” look for something bottled in bond. Don’t pick up a Canadian rye unless you know what you’re doing. They are not the same, and most Canadian rye is not good.

- Rum is kind of hard. There are actually very different styles appropriate for different things, and tons of brands at similar price points that can be great or awful. For funk, look for Hamilton pot still, Rum Bar, Wray and Nephew, Doctor Bird, or Smith and Cross. For a cleaner style, look at Plantation 3 star as an entry level.

- always squeeze your own citrus juice (lemon/lime/orange). Orange should not be squeezed ahead of time. Lemon/Lime can be done a few hours before or to order, depending on personal preference.

- skip Rose’s anything (grenadine, cordial, etc).

- Angostura is a great all-around bitter. Add Regan’s Orange bitters and you’re all set unless you want to go deep on the hobby.

I have spent a lot of time in this rabbit hole, happy to answer specific questions.

nycdatasci• 12 months ago

If the goal is to get drunk, there are lots of cheap ways to do it and it's fine to buy high-fructose-corn-syrup-based "mixers". If you're looking for great cocktails, consider the PDT (Please Don't Tell) book and/or app by Jim Meehan. When his recipes call for lemon juice, you'll be buying and squeezing (do not buy "fresh squeezed lemon juice"). If you want more of a sensory experience, take recipes from the Aviary in Chicago (they also sell a book). Prepare to spend several days preparing each drink.

bryanlarsen• 12 months ago

worst value is high end vodka.

For mixing, definitely. If you're drinking it straight, the subtle complexity of a good vodka is nice.

miketery• 12 months ago

You don’t need to spend anything more than kettle one. It’s a super simple lab process it’s not like whiskey which has a lot of complexity.

TheBoozyGenius4• 12 months ago

Finally someone who ''Gets It''.

antonvs• 12 months ago

If it's not 100% pure ethanol, are you even a connoisseur?

Barbing2• 12 months ago

Does this bear out in double-blind tests?

mgaunard5• 12 months ago

People who never had Belvedere or Chopin simply don't know that a vodka shot doesn't have to be a painful experience.

crystal_revenge• 12 months ago

My advice would be: Every cocktail has an unlisted ingredient that makes or breaks the drink - ice water.

Shaking or stirring a cocktail doesn’t just make it colder, it dilutes it as well. Getting this right is very often the difference between a good and bad drink.

I demonstrated this once when a friend complained that it was so hard to get a good cocktail, especially getting good ingredients. All they had in their kitchen was some gin and some other slightly floral novelty liqueur. I just took a spoon and a glass and stirred them something based on the ratios for a martini and they said it was one of the best cocktails they have had!

Balancing chill and dilution, even in more complex drinks, is essential.

A good way to experiment is to make batch chilled cocktails in which case you need to explicitly measure out the water you’re adding.

avanai• 12 months ago

The other magic ingredient is salt. A tiny pinch of salt can balance out sour and bitter flavors in surprising ways, and be otherwise undetectable. I’ve “fixed” a lot of cocktails that way.

hattmall3• 12 months ago

Yeah one thing that makes a huge difference is that you mix your ingredients in the shaker with ice. Then strain and serve over fresh ice if it's called for.

djoldman• 12 months ago

I do enjoy Antica.

That being said, IMHO sweet vermouths vary a lot. Enough that I'd pick one over another depending on the cocktail.

wrsh072• 12 months ago

And they taste good/interesting on their own. If you're making drinks at home, try out the ingredients! I rather like a sweet vermouth, and you can feature it strongly in eg a gin and it https://newsletter.anthonygladman.com/p/all-hail-the-gin-and...

Some recipes call for 1:2 ratio, but the 1:1 works well! Give it a try

FuriouslyAdrift7• 12 months ago

Punt et Mes is also really good but very different flavor profile. More like the historic flavor of "sweet" vermouth which was actually more bitter.

yojo6• 12 months ago

Antica is very particular, IMO. It’s good, but lots of vanilla flavor, which doesn’t work everywhere. Honestly Martini and Rossi is totally adequate, and I wouldn’t bother stepping up until your palette is dialed in.

jen729w• 12 months ago

I think anyone could immediately appreciate the difference between a negroni made with Antica vs. Rossi. It's night and day. The Antica lends a far deeper flavour vs. the brash sweetness of the Rossi.

The gin, on the other hand: just get the cheapest stuff you can find. Our go-to was Aldi's store brand.

Campari, of course, has the middle ingredient all stitched up.

cpfohl• 12 months ago

I like to doctor bad sweet vermouths with a barspoon of Cynar. Goes a long way to add the missing complexity, and if you're sparing enough even a Cynar hater won't mind it.

jjice• 12 months ago

know when the quality of ingredients matter and when they don’t.

Very good point. The first time I had a Gin and Tonic with a fresh squeezed lime half and a good tonic water was mind blowing. I had thought that sour mix was just as good as a fresh lime and that all tonic water was the same, but man I was wrong.

zem• 12 months ago

surprised the white lady is in the obscure category, it's a delightful cocktail with common ingredients and a simple recipe. highly recommend trying it, it's one of my go-to cocktails to make at home.

b_e_n_t_o_n2• 12 months ago

Hah. What a great idea for a side quest. Still tempted to try to speed run it though. I reckon in a place like NYC or London you could get it done in a week easy :D

drcode• 12 months ago

Incidentally, my 24th birthday was quickly approaching

What would have been hilarious is if he had said "my 14th birthday was quickly approaching" at this point in the post

TheBoozyGenius4• 12 months ago

This would've made me R-O-F-L.

maest• 12 months ago

First semester that year, I took a Beverage Management class, which was ostensibly about managing bars, but it was no secret that everyone took it because of its tasting component.

Is this breadth of topics common for the American higher educational system or did the author go to a special university?

TheBoozyGenius4• 12 months ago

The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is something of a "special" university...

ordersofmag• 12 months ago

At the very largest universities there is a really really wide variety of programs and courses. For example here's a course catalog where a search for 'intro' returns 3500 different courses. https://classes.osu.edu/#/?q=intro&client=class-search-ui&ca... You can see the variety, from "Introduction to the Army and Critical Thinking" to "Introductory Meat Science"

This breadth is typical of the very largest universities in the U.S.

hattmall3• 12 months ago

Yeah, but just to be clear there's only ~1500 classes offered there. The 3000 comes from many of the classes having multiple components, lab etc.

The number is further reduced by the fact that many of them are the same class with special qualifications to ensure placements. For example intro classes for designated transfer students. So you have the same class but 10 seats or something are only available to certain transfer program students.

The real number looks like somewhere in the ~400-600 range. Which is still very impressive but 3500 different intro subjects would be wildly excessive.

mNovak4• 12 months ago

As an aside if you're in Ohio, the OSU Animal Science lab sells meat raised at the university teaching farms for very good prices [1]

Related to the broader catalogue, I had fun in my Riflery and Table Tennis classes in college.

[1] https://ansci.osu.edu/about-us/facilities/sales

ChadNauseam• 12 months ago

Sure. My alma mater (Michigan State) offers a minor in "Beverage Science and Technology" https://reg.msu.edu/academicprograms/ProgramDetail.aspx?PTyp...

It requires all the following courses:

  CEM 482 Science and Technology of Wine Production 3
  CHE 483 Brewing and Distilled Beverage Technology 3
  FSC 481 Fermented Beverages

avalys• 12 months ago

It depends on the specific institution, but the US higher educational system does have a lot of very specialized degrees. This is part of a "Food Science & Nutrition" program (https://staging.fshn.illinois.edu/about/what-we-do-why-it-ma...).

While the value of some of these courses is somewhat questionable on their own (hence the old joke about majoring in "Underwater Basket Weaving"), they make a bit more sense as part of a broader program and/or a double-major.

For instance, you might double major in Chemistry, plus Food Science and Nutrition, if you intend to do some work in that industry - or perhaps Business plus Food Science and Nutrition.

Someone with less ambitious college plans might major in Food Science and Nutrition alone and aim for a job as a nutritionist, or a restaurant manager, etc.?

It's also common for people to register for courses like this as a fun or lightweight diversion from "more serious" majors. For instance, MIT offers a course on glassblowing, which counts toward the humanities & arts part of the general curriculum requirements.

xboxnolifes• 12 months ago

My university had courses such as wine tasting, beer tasting, and food tasting. Not necessarily a ton of them, but enough that a lot of 4th year students would fill their "free" credit slots with those courses as fun easy As.

soared• 12 months ago

Most large university have a few well known courses like this, though I don’t really know the purpose. Every in Boulder wants to take the history of the US through baseball, for example.

aaaronson4• 12 months ago

Author of the post here, I joke that I could've gotten a minor in Food because, on top of my actual CS major and Linguistics minor, I took Contemporary Nutrition, Grilling & BBQ Science, Beverage Management, and Vegetable Gardening (not to mention Bowling).

hattmall3• 12 months ago

Most reasonable business schools will have a significant restaurant management / hospitality program.

krebby• 12 months ago

Such a sweet story! My friend actually went to the author's Borg party a few weeks ago and I'm second-guessing my choices that night after reading this. Funny to see it on Hacker News!

If you guys like reading about this kind of thing I recommend Cocktail Codex from the people behind Death & Co (referenced in the article). It's a great way to think about cocktails as a remixable grammar and the purpose behind all the mixing, muddling, and stirring.

adamnemecek• 12 months ago

If you can get you hands on a bottle of Becherovka, try Beton. literally just Becherovka and tonic. https://punchdrink.com/articles/beton-becherovka-tonic-cockt... Best cocktail.

antognini• 12 months ago

If anyone is interested in getting into cocktails I really can't recommend Cocktails with Suderman enough. The early posts are free and go into the theory of how cocktails are structured and why they work. Once you start to understand the structure of the major cocktails it makes it a lot easier to understand how you can play with the ingredients and make something new.

For instance, tons of cocktails fall into the "sour" category. They usually have proportions of 2:1:1 or 3:1:1 of a liquor, a sour, and a syrup. If you have rum, lime juice, and simple syrup it's a daiquiri. Swap out the lime juice for lemon juice and the rum for whiskey and you get a whiskey sour. Swap out the simple syrup for honey syrup and you get a Gold Rush. Use tequila, lime juice, and a blend of agave syrup and Cointreau and you have a margarita. Gin, lime, and simple syrup is a gimlet. And so on.

Also, as others have mentioned, the quality of the ingredients and the brands often matter a lot. A Manhattan calls for whiskey, sweet vermouth, and bitters, but the choice of whiskey and vermouth makes a big difference in the character of the drink. (And if you are using old vermouth that has been sitting out on the counter for a few years, or making a drink with bottled lime juice, it's just not going to turn out all that good.)

https://cocktailswithsuderman.substack.com/

ReptileMan2• 12 months ago

My rule of thumb for cocktails is - they were created to mask the flavors of shitty base liquors so this is what should be used. The best old fashioned comes from jim beam white label. Unless you use some really strong medicinal smoked whiskeys you probably won't be able to pick up much of the delicate flavors from the good stuff with so much syrup and bitters in it. and if you want to add complexity - just make a more complex syrup.

8note• 12 months ago

you can make cocktails with subtler adjuncts just fine. Tea bases are a bunch of fun

omnimus• 12 months ago

To be fair Jim Beam is not that shitty. It’s cheap but there are way worse bourbons.

kenanfyi• 12 months ago

Wasn‘t it Woodford Reserve? I think I never used Jim Beam for an old-fashioned.

kingnothing2• 12 months ago

I'm not advocating to use limited release bourbons, but when 90% of your drink is the base spirit, you'll get a lot of value out of using a traditional top shelf bourbon vs well like Jim. Try a $40 bottle like Eagle Rare or Angel's Envy. There's not much syrup in a good old fashioned -- go with 2oz bourbon, a teaspoon of simple or good maple syrup, and a couple dashes of Angostura. Maybe a dash of black walnut bitters, too. The higher quality whiskey should be apparent.

Karawebnetwork• 12 months ago

When I treat myself to an expensive bottle as a treat, I go against conventional wisdom and use it at least once to make my favourite cocktails. While I agree that a simple bottle is best suited for cocktails, I can't remember an expensive base liquor ever spoiling a cocktail. For some, this is a waste because the premium taste takes a back seat to the cocktails, but often the result is better due to the subtle flavour profile of higher-quality spirits.

FuriouslyAdrift7• 12 months ago

I recommend a high proof (bottled in bond or cask strength) rye in most whiskey drinks

matsemann3• 12 months ago

My second advice would be ice ice ice. A bartender uses copious amounts of ice. It's for a reason. If you make a mojito at home and just chuck two ice cubes in, you will either get waaayyy too much soda in when filling the glass, a too hot drink, too watered down etc.

Avalaxy• 12 months ago

A bartender uses copious amounts of ice. It's for a reason.

$$$$$$$$$

morberg• 12 months ago

I find it really strange that the IBA list does no longer include the gimlet.

dbl000• 12 months ago

I also want to shout out The Sprits which serves as a book club for cocktails. Very good if you're just exploring. Each week you get a cocktail and a themed playlist to go with it, plus some other random musings.

https://thespirits.substack.com

reverendsteveii2• 12 months ago

This. As someone for whom food & bev was a career for 18 years and now it's a dedicated hobby Suderman is the Salt Fat Acid Heat of booze. It's graduating past memorizing recipes and into theory and framework.

Also please God pour out that old vermouth, get a new one and put it in your fridge.

moehm3• 12 months ago

Also please God pour out that old vermouth, get a new one and put it in your fridge.

Don't pour it out, but deglaze your pan the next time you cook.

FuriouslyAdrift7• 12 months ago

Vermouth, like wine, has a short shelf life once opened and really should be chilled to keep it's flavors.

lordleft• 12 months ago

I found this to be a pretty charming blog post & an enjoyable read. Does anyone else feel like some of the newer entries in the IBA list seem a bit contrived, maybe to promote a particular type of spirit?

vrosas2• 12 months ago

The aperol spritz is one of the greatest marketing achievements in our lifetime and no one even noticed.

jeffreyrogers• 12 months ago

I believe the monkey gland is called that because around the time it was invented there was a surgeon (Serge Voronoff) who was promoting a surgery in which he would implant baboon testicles into men (there was a corresponding surgery for women as well). It was supposed to improve the libido. An early, probably ineffective form of hormone replacement therapy.

3eb7988a1663• 12 months ago

There is even a wikipedia page on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_gland

Which still sounds super fake to me. It takes a host of modern drugs to prevent rejection when doing human-to-human transplants. I have long odds that monkey tissue would result in anything but a painful, septic death.

As a medical benchmark, penicillin was discovered in 1928.

Edit: I was ignoring the obvious - sham surgery! Just leave a bit of a scar, maybe inject them with some cocaine, and everyone comes out smiling.

Sincere6066• 12 months ago

At once?

mNovak4• 12 months ago

It's strange to note that a Dirty Martini, probably one of the most popular cocktails in the world, isn't on the IBA list. Likewise I've found many cocktail books also won't deign to list it as a 'real' cocktail. But I'd argue the heritage is the same as a great many now classic prohibition drinks -- adding ingredients to distract from low quality liquors.

I think that's a disservice, and it's worth standardizing; just like many of these, it can be surprisingly hard to get just right.

stouset• 12 months ago

Do yourself a favor and use cerignola olives.

tekknolagi• 12 months ago

Excellent subtitle "let's have a tiki". Great joke

wirrbel• 12 months ago

Just reading the title.

As a college student the premise of screening through the cocktail menu would have sounded like a great project.

As a 30 something I am more interested of drinking my way through the mocktail menu.

ashoeafoot• 12 months ago

Missing the dictator. A bloody marry in a soup coup, with a brainshaped bannana vodka jelloshot in the middle. Decorated with dark chocolate pistols, dark choclate toy soldiers and a stenciled sugarlines looking like cocaine maps on the rim.

Would that (a redecorated bloody mary ) get in the list?

bigfishrunning• 12 months ago

No, the IBA list is weirdly specific -- stuff also periodically rotates in and out of that list -- a few get added and removed every year. Using the IBA list as the definition of "every cocktail" is really strange.

yellowapple• 12 months ago

Reminds me of my go-to bar's "Order 66" club, where you're handed a list of the 60 cocktails they make year-round + 6 "write-in" spots for seasonal cocktails (or maybe it's 56+10 or some other combination; can't remember) and if you order/drink everything on the list within a year you get your name on the wall.

dguest2• 12 months ago

For about 6 months I tried to order a Jack Rose [1]. Only one bartender knew what it was (lime, applejack, and grenadine). And no it's not on this list.

How can I excuse such a pretentious mission? Well someone told me that "The Fine Art of Mixing Drinks" [2] was The Cocktail Bible and a Jack Rose was the thing I'd never heard of. Turns out no one else has either, at least since Hemingway was drinking them in Paris in the 1920s. Funny how things change in 100 years.

But it's actually pretty good: applejack pretty much died out in the US with the prohibition and cheaper liquors, but if you can find cider or calvados it's worth a shot.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Rose_(cocktail)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fine_Art_of_Mixing_Drinks

Balgair2• 12 months ago

Jack Rose is one of my favorites!

99 Red Balloons is also a great one

tristor3• 12 months ago

I love a Jack Rose. Unfortunately it's hard to find any good Applejack. I bought some Laird's Apple Brandy that was supposed to be of a special release, thinking it'd be good, but it was very harsh and ended up (before a move) getting dumped. It's really difficult to find any decent Applejack, even though this used to be a quintessentially American drink.

dguest2• 12 months ago

The French version of the Wikipedia article [1] actually lists calvados [2] instead of applejack. So who knows what the Lost Generation was drinking, maybe the french version is just as good.

[1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Rose_(cocktail)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvados

alex-moon• 12 months ago

Since no-one else has mentioned it so far, I wanted to say I appreciated the big warning at the top. As someone who has struggled with (and overcome!) alcohol dependency in the past, having a big reminder that literally says "You should probably stop reading this" shows a sensitivity to the issue I rarely see online.

The other thing I loved about this write-up was the photo of the "best cocktail bar in the world" being the skeeziest, most dangerous looking flat-top you've ever seen. Having known a few bartenders in my life, I am absolutely not surprised that a "bartenders' bar" would look like that.

dcminter• 12 months ago

Eh, that's also kind of the East London aesthetic for you. It used to be (maybe 30 years ago) very dodgy and is now (mostly) very hipster.

The Bar Americain which he mentions but doesn't show a picture of, on the other hand, is excellent, slap bang in the middle of Picadilly, and quite opulent. That's great to combine with a meal at the surprisingly cheap (given the location) brasserie Zedel.

NoboruWataya• 12 months ago

Yes, I haven't been to Satan's Whiskers but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was as expensive as Bar Americain (or moreso).

Bar Americain is probably my favourite cocktail bar in central London, though I'm not much of a cocktail drinker so that's not saying much. The Connaught is good for a special occasion (very opulent, also very expensive).

mgaunard5• 12 months ago

The trick to having a good time at a cocktail bar is sitting at the bar and talking to the bartender. Tell him what kind of things you like and he'll be happy to make recommendations and even have you taste some unusual ingredients he recommends for a twist on any of the classics.

There are a lot more good addresses in London than the ones he listed, it's clearly a hot spot worldwide for this kind of thing.

In NYC there are a few good ones as well, but I feel it's below London. It's also a bit too busy.

octo8882• 12 months ago

Any particular recommendations for London? I feel a thirst coming on!

mgaunard5• 12 months ago

Happiness Forgets is one of my favourites for a classic experience.

Discount Suit Company has a cool vibe, a bit more party-like, I remember dancing a few times there (despite it being tiny).

Waltz is a new one that's a bit different, Japanese-style, their creations are quite unique and masterfully delivered.

Shapes is also very popular for some reason, though I don't really see the point of places that only do bottled cocktails.

In Shoreditch and adjacent areas there are many other ones.

tpm• 12 months ago

Oh, no sgroppino? I'm the trendsetter again it seems.

moehm3• 12 months ago

Since the Ninja Creami hit the market as the "Pacojet Killer", I like to make my own lemon sorbet and Sgroppinos.

But of course I swapped the vodka for Limoncello.

darkwater• 12 months ago

Since we are talking cocktails and we are on HN, shout out to Drinkable [1], a mobile app with cocktail recipes, 100% opensource, available on F-Droid as well

[1] https://github.com/MOIMOB/drinkable

Graziano_M• 12 months ago

Not free or open source, but Mixel[1] is fantastic. You can find recipes by name, by ingredient, by taste. You can say what ingredients you have, and see what you can make, and you can even have it calculate which ingredient, if purchased, will open up the most new recipes to you.

[1] https://www.mixelcocktails.com/

ik_ben_paul• 12 months ago

I was surprised to see the Pornstar Martini outside of your Well-Known category, that's a big North America/Europe difference! eg Wikipedia cites a claim it was the most ordered cocktail in the UK a few years ago.

TomMasz• 12 months ago

When I was in Rio for business, one of my hosts took me to lunch and we had Caipirinhas, but with vodka instead of cachaça. He explained it would make it harder to detect on your breath. Either way, they're very sweet and go down nicely.

tompark• 12 months ago

A caipirinha with vodka is called a caipiroska. I name my computers after caipirinha varieties. Once at the office my laptop screensaver was showing "caipiroska" and a Russian guy exclaimed, "what's that?!?" Apparently "piroska" has a certain connotation in Russian that's nsfw.

a3w• 12 months ago

"I tried every drug in the category of X and survived to tell it (for now)" is a hackernews topic?

Who did all kinds of cocaine and cannabis and wants to share that? Those seem to be safer than alcohol.

vintermann• 12 months ago

There was another article about quality ice (for cocktails) on the front page very recently. It could be shadow marketing, it could be the temperatures... But it's likely a bit of both.

thinkingtoilet• 12 months ago

I think it's the nerdiness involved in the pursuit that's the attraction here. People here appreciate others sharing their obsessions. This wasn't some random drunk ranting about what he's drank over the last few years.

Jedd2• 12 months ago

I was both a) delighted and b) disappointed to discover, in my late 40's, the negroni, at a hotel in Brisbane Australia - because a) it became my favourite cocktail, and b) I'd somehow never had one before.

It's not, at first glance, a complex drink - but has somehow become surprisingly popular the past few years.

Experimenting with variations on the original brand-name elements is doubtless a big part of the fun - Campari is a very sweet bitters, and Rosso Antico is a competent but not spectacular vermouth. The third component is gin, of course.

Here in Australia there's some delightful local options for each of those three ingredients.

(Switching out the bitters for Fernet-Branca turns it from a Negroni into a Hanky Panky -- which is worth knowing about, but perhaps not worth the experience of drinking.)

TFA mentions in passing a 'rusty nail' which is even simpler - barely worth the moniker of cocktail - a blend of whisky and Drambuie (itself a blend of whisky and honey, herbs, spices).

I recall my first fondly, even if my liver does not -- a generous pour, foisted into my hands by the spitting image of John Cleese (along with his partner - an American version of Patsy-from-ab-fab) at a bed and breakfast, somewhere near Loch Ness, and sometime towards the end of the last century.

vrosas2• 12 months ago

I discovered the negroni sbagliato on holiday in Italy just a few weeks before it blew up on tiktok. Still my go-to summer drink.

Balgair2• 12 months ago

Aside:

The internet is terrible for cocktail recipes. Discovery is terrible, recipes are badly listed most of the time, and the blogs don't curate well.

Youtube is not that bad if you can find a good channel with someone that has actually worked in a bar, but even then, they tend to go downhill after a while. It's a time limited gig.

The best way to grow your repertoire is to go to Goodwill and browse the book section there. The dollar bin section at any bookseller is good too. Used bookstores too. I have no idea why this is, but these crummy non-seller books have the best recipes and the best curation; it's bonkers. Sure, grab Smugglers Cove and the other hits, actually read them. But I have found that the best cocktail recipes are in the books no one wants anymore.

AdmiralAsshat• 12 months ago

drinkboy.com used to be my go-to for cocktail preparation. I liked that some of the articles had a bit of history behind them. Plus, in an era before YouTube destroyed all other video hosting sites, it was nice to see a video of the drink's preparation.

Plus I figured the HN crowd would enjoy that it's managed by Robert Hess, longtime Microsoft employee.

pnt123• 12 months ago

On YouTube, I follow:

- Steve the bartender - How to drink - Cocktail time with Kevin Koz - The educated barfly - Anders Erickson

Good recipes, sometimes adding new things, but usually tasteful.

But maybe they're better to search for than to strictly follow regularly; there's so many cocktails that is impossible to buy all ingredients or try all of them.

davelee• 12 months ago

I've only been to Italy once, and Riva del Garda is one of the places I visited. Funny to see it called middle of nowhere. Grappa is delicious, yet it is surprising to see that it's used in an "official" cocktail.

zackmorris• 12 months ago

Ah Urbana-Champaign, my alma mater. I was there from 1995-99, starting the year after Andreessen took NCSA Mosaic and made it into Netscape, when the internet hit the world. It warms my heart that KAMS is still there, at that time arguably one of the frat boy capitals of the world ..the wafting scent of vomit baked onto the sidewalk stands out vividly in my mind.

Back then the drinks of choice were Aftershock and Goldschläger, looks like the first was discontinued?! Obviously alcohol poisoning had nothing to do with it. Ice 101 was huge, Everclear (my roommate did a shot which turned to plastic foam in his mouth), and home-brewed wine made of frozen grape juice, sugar and bread yeast which tasted like ham and had to be thrown out if one substituted orange juice instead. Not that I condone such research.

My first cocktail was an Amaretto Stone Sour at Joe's (still there too it looks like?), which didn't make the IBA list:

https://www.liquor.com/amaretto-stone-sour-cocktail-recipe-5...

Midwest beer stunk so our first binges were on MGD (notes of corn), the Beast - Milwaukee's Best (notes of grass clippings) and if we were desperate Miller High Life (notes of hay). Keystone Light was considered too crude due to the specially lined can which tasted of washed charcoal. The best we could get was a Black and Tan (Guinness and Bass) which was $4, ordinary beer like Bud was always $2 or less. A case of Coke was $4, Old Milwaukee $8, imagine the possibilities. Minimum wage was $4.25 but went up to $5.15 in 97, and a night out was $20, which none of us had because we lacked jobs or even cars, but saved by crashing events for free pizza and buying ramen.

I fondly remember the first time I rolled around on the ground after 3 free beers at the frat next door where there were actual girls and ended the night dancing in a circle, arms locked shoulder to shoulder with other drunks singing American Pie. That began a 4 year quest to get into a party every weekend or bust. The weeks consisted of pre-partying in the dorms, bar crawls, basement parties and after-hours parties until 4 am, with some studying mixed in. We often made our 8 am lectures.

One time I was in Chicago and an unhoused man (back during the politically correct era we still said homeless) was selling good booze out of a shopping cart for a newspaper promotion. I bought a bottle of Drambuie for $4 and began my excursion into "mixed drinks". I had no idea what I was doing, so crafted my own, my favorite of which was The Boot (whiskey and Diet Dr Pepper), but during the summers while camping I drank The Meagerita (tequila and Squirt). One can hardly call it a cocktail with 2 ingredients, but it is what it is.

The air today feels uncannily like 1995. There's a palpable feel that everything is wrong. Making fun of it all once again becomes our civic duty. AI just landed, which will disrupt established rich people as surely as the internet did then. There seems to be a 30 year generational cycle. So in the 90s we dressed like the 60s like kids today dress like the 90s. The counterculture is so overdue that it's already here. It hurts to dance as the world burns but history demands it for our own salvation.

NoGravitas• 12 months ago

Honestly, there are far too few cocktails that showcase Jeppson's Malört.

I drank every cocktail

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