What 'Project Hail Mary' teaches us about the PlanetScale vs. Neon debate

https://blog.alexoglou.com/posts/database-decisions/

by konsalexee • 1 year ago

71 108 1 year ago

blog.alexoglou.com

chubot• 1 year ago

Hm I feel like I jumped into the middle of something and don't understand the conclusion.

What's the beef between PlanetScale and Neon? Benchmarking, uptime, vibe coding?

The quote at the end doesn't really help me. Which one is good for what?

sinnickal• 1 year ago

Edelman PR

konsalexee2• 1 year ago

Long story short, I didn't want to make that analysis/distinction because it would miss the point.

They excel in their respective areas based on the architectural decisions they've made for the use cases they wanted to optimize for.

PlanetScale, with their latest Metal introduction, optimized for super low latency (they act like they've reinvented the wheel, lol), but they clearly have something in mind going in this direction.

Neon offers many managed features for serverless PostgreSQL that were missing in the market, like instant branching, and with auto-scaling, you may perform better with variable workloads. From their perspective, they wanted to serve other use cases.

There's no reason to always compare apples to oranges, and no reason to hate one another when everyone is pushing the managed database industry forward.

twoodfin• 1 year ago

Well, I imagine at least the emotional aspect of this squabble had more than a billion reasons injected via Databricks.

sgarland3• 1 year ago

PlanetScale, with their latest Metal introduction, optimized for super low latency (they act like they've reinvented the wheel, lol), but they clearly have something in mind going in this direction.

I’ve spoken to them personally, and didn’t get the impression at all that they think they’ve “re-invented the wheel.” More like they realized that separating compute and storage was a god-awful idea, and are bringing back how things used to be in the days of boring tech.

Also, re: branching, PS MySQL definitely has that. I assume they’ll bring it to Postgres.

PhilippGille• 1 year ago

To make it shorter than OP's reply, from my understanding of the offerings:

- PlanetScale for predictable load. You pick a config (CPU, memory) and if you don't have traffic it sits idle, and if you have traffic it's limited by the config you picked.

- Neon for scalability. You pay for compute hours, so if your traffic is spikey (e.g. concert ticket sales), you don't pay for idle resources during low traffic, and get all the compute you need during high traffic.

lukasb• 1 year ago

Except: "The active time includes periods when the database is receiving requests and for a duration (default 300 seconds) after the last request is received. Following this period of inactivity, the database scales down to zero, effectively pausing compute time billing."

So if you get at least one request every five minutes, neon will charge you for 24 hours of compute a day.

ghiculescu• 1 year ago

I use Postgres on RDS. Our database is several TB and runs a 24/7 production app. It seems fine. (earnest question) Why should I look into either/both of these?

sgarland3• 1 year ago

Neon has leaned hard into AI and promoting vibe coding, example [0]. I assume they’ve also struggled with uptime, but don’t know.

Sam Lambert tweeted this [1], which may or may not (I genuinely have no idea) have been poking at Neon, or maybe just the idea of vibe coding in general.

IMO, reading [0], Neon (and most of the industry tbf) is suggesting bonkers ideas. “Oh, did the AI accidentally give you SQL Injection? No problem, we’ll catch it.” Maybe - just spitballing here - if you don’t know how to prevent the most basic of attacks, you have zero business putting anything into prod, and need to spend time learning fundamentals.

[0] https://neon.com/blog/oops-proof-your-vibe-code-with-neon-be...

[1] https://x.com/isamlambert/status/1935333197635588393

crims0n• 1 year ago

Tangentially related, is this book worth the hype? I don't read a lot of genre fiction, but don't like to miss out on the exceptional (just finished and loved Flowers for Algernon, as an example).

Edit: Sounds like an enjoyable, low commitment book. Will give it a try, thanks for the feedback.

ecshafer• 1 year ago

No. Any Weir anything is not going to break into the tier of exceptional. Its YA fiction level writing with a bit of science sprinkled in.

loteck• 1 year ago

Almost nothing is worth the hype but the book is an enjoyable page turner if you like space adventures and speculative science. Audiobook also got some extra attention, I'd go with that if you like audiobooks.

GolfPopper• 1 year ago

This. It was fun and very readable, but not something I have any desire to go back and read again.

GiorgioG• 1 year ago

I loved the Audiobook.

ItsHarper• 1 year ago

Admittedly I am a sci-fi fan, but I loved it so much. The science fiction aspects are not the best part.

Don't watch the trailer for the movie though, it's very spoiler-heavy.

qingcharles2• 1 year ago

Yes, agreed, the trailer spoils the main twist. Avoid it.

tickettotranai2• 1 year ago

What are you talking about lol, the prose, characters, and themes are all extremely flat. I would say the sci-fi things are what make it good.

jowea2• 1 year ago

I liked the audiobook a lot, but I'm a SF aficionado, so my opinion may not be relevant. The other comment may be correct about the "serious literary critic" opinion.

konsalexee2• 1 year ago

It was really enjoyable to read. And I also do not read a lot of fiction, with my last book being the Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy series.

My verdict is that Project Hail Mary was way much more engaging in terms of story-telling. The concepts were cool, and tbh I look forward for the movie and see if the adaptation will be nice

mystified5016• 1 year ago

Yes, absolutely.

It's maybe not a literary masterpiece and it's suspiciously similar to The Martian if you squint. But not many books can get me laughing out loud the second or third time through.

It's a really fun read and I find the aliens particularly compelling in a way that most Sci-Fi doesn't get right.

FeepingCreature• 1 year ago

Please remove that spoiler.

kyleblarson• 1 year ago

It is a super fast, super fun read.

sbelskie2• 1 year ago

If you don't read/like much genre fiction, I would say probably no. The pacing is well done and I genuinely find story compelling, but the writing while solid-ish is not exactly of high literary quality.

Additionally, in terms of genre I actually find Weir's books to be more like detective novels than sci-fi, though obviously lots of sci-fi elements in them.

jetbalsa2• 1 year ago

I've found and some have proven that sci-fi is just a setting of sorts, a background to the story at hand. For instance the Backyard Starship series is 100% a detective / cop novel set in space. Asimov did one called The Naked Sun that was pretty much a murder mystery and from what I understand written to prove a point that sci-fi really is just a setting to what ever main genre you want out of it.

JonoBB• 1 year ago

I typically prefer somewhat deeper and more thought-provoking material, but I enjoyed this book. It’s a light page-turner, written-to-be-turned-into-a-movie type book. Overall, I would recommend it.

trey-jones• 1 year ago

It's funny, I would not put this or the Martian into made-to-be-movie category, mainly featuring a single protagonist alone with his thoughts of how best to effect survival. I haven't (and probably won't) see the movies. I preferred the Martian very much compared to PHM, but I did enjoy it. Just had a problem with suspension of disbelief to do trivialization of language learning and communication (especially alien).

Andrew_nenakhov• 1 year ago

It was on my reading list for a while, and after the movie trailer was released, it finally nudged me and I read it. Took a few hours. It is very easy to read, quite enjoyable being a 'plausible' sci-fi. Though, spoilers ahead, alien part of the story was somewhat disappointing, by being not alien enough.

AngryData• 1 year ago

I thought it was a pretty good book as someone who reads a lot of sci-fi. It has a few unique ideas and plot points I haven't seen before, is an accessible read to anyone, and has a satisfying conclusion.

_qua• 1 year ago

It's a fun read but, just like his other books, very one-dimensional characters with no depth. Not really remarkable literature, more of a bunch of Wikipedia articles strung together.

mritchie712• 1 year ago

if Project Hail Mary isn't a good sci-fi book, what is a good one?

Latty• 1 year ago

I agree that I really don't like Andy Weir's character writing: his dialogue in particular is rough, but despite normally characters being what I'm there for in stories, I give Project Hail Mary a bit more credit than this. The story has some interesting ideas and I think Weir's strength is the mystery of process: you see a challenge, and then you get to enjoy the competence porn of someone successfully going through the process of finding a solution, and I think he nails doing that in a really engaging way.

I do think the movie will probably end up better than the book: having a screenwriter go over the dialogue alone will do a lot, I think.

K0balt• 1 year ago

Meh, to me it failed to engage. Characters very one dimensional, I’d call it young adult level sophistication . Some cool ideas though.

TBF I am trying to write fiction for the first time in my writing career, and I also suck at characters and non contrived story engagement, so I’m not trying to throw stones here. I do hope, however, to do better in my first published fiction.

pjerem• 1 year ago

The hype, absolutely not. I found the writing to be very poor. However I enjoyed it. The story is refreshing and straightforward.

To be fair, I read it months before the movie announcement and it really felt like reading a movie plot. If you prefer, I thought that the author had a great story idea but cared very little about writing a book, like he already knew this was for Hollywood.

I think with good production it’s going to be a better movie than the book.

Never read the Martian but I was told it was the same thing.

diggan• 1 year ago

Obviously subjective, but I had seen The Martian before I read the book (many years after seeing the movie), and liked the book way better than the movie. Read Project Hail Mary right after finishing The Martian, and enjoyed that one even more. I guess the writing is a bit dry, but it kind of makes sense and I quite like it. I'm cautiously optimistic about the new movie.

ericol• 1 year ago

Never read the Martian but I was told it was the same thing.

That's the very feeling I had when I read 'The Martian'. While I was reading it I actually thought something to the tune (It's been years now) "This reads like a movie".

Guess that explains why the movie is so faithful to the book.

throw0101a• 1 year ago

Never read the Martian but I was told it was the same thing.

The Martian was actually originally published in a serialized form, one chapter coming out every so often.

It didn't start out that way though. "The Martian" began as a series of self-published chapters on Weir's personal blog.
Then Weir decided to put the book on Amazon, selling it for the website's lowest possible price ($0.99).

* https://archive.is/https://www.businessinsider.com/how-andy-...

Having been rebuffed by literary agents when trying to get prior books published, Weir decided to put the book online in serial format one chapter at a time for free at his website. At the request of fans, he made an Amazon Kindle version available at 99 cents (the minimum allowable price he could set).[9] The Kindle edition rose to the top of Amazon's list of best-selling science-fiction titles, selling 35,000 copies in three months, more than had been previously downloaded free.[9][11] This garnered the attention of publishers: Podium Publishing, an audiobook publisher, signed for the audiobook rights in January 2013. Weir sold the print rights to Crown in March 2013 for over US$100,000.[9]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martian_(Weir_novel)#Publi...

bityard2• 1 year ago

In my opinion, The Martian had better writing. You could tell Weir was having a blast writing it, and his enthusiasm translated directly to the main character's love of science and enduring sense of humor in the face of almost constantly dying.

Hail Mary felt like it was trying to capture the same magic but missed the mark. The plot felt constructed rather than spontaneous and I couldn't relate much to the main character at all. I agree about the Hollywood motive. I'll probably watch the movie.

izacus• 1 year ago

If you can handle the terrible Gary Sue main character, it's a fun summer read.

UltraSane• 1 year ago

The audio book is very very good.

lucb1e• 1 year ago

I enjoyed The Martian even more, but perhaps only because I wasn't prepared for how good it was. I was bored in Stockholm airport and thought "haven't I heard of this book oh HN?", flipped a few pages, and decided to buy it. It quickly became clear that I had a new favorite book (and it still is)

PHM, from the same author, I was very much expecting to be very good to amazing. It delivered, but it's a different feeling when you see it coming

woile• 1 year ago

Yes, it's a nice book. Especially if you are not a native English speaking and you are looking to practice your English reading skills. I enjoyed the book and so many of my friends. It's very easy read, and it falls under the hard sci-fi category. I also enjoyed the expanse books!

bananapub• 1 year ago

andy weir is the dan brown of this genre

sho_hn• 1 year ago

It's Space MacGyver, and does that very well.

op00to• 1 year ago

It’s pretty good. Definitely got better at the end in my opinion. I am interested to see how it will translate to film.

Check out Dragon’s Egg while you’re at it. It’s like Project Hail Mary’s much nerdier older brother.

paulcole• 1 year ago

No, it’s not particularly good. I read about 120 books a year, 2/3 of which is genre fiction.

Definitely read The Martian if you haven’t already.

protocolture• 1 year ago

In my opinion Weir is learning to write in full public view. I tolerate it largely because he is definitely getting better. But its not everyones cup of tea.

The scenario is definitely contrived to introduce interplanetary travel to a near future setting.

The amnesia parts of of the book are not very coherently written.

However what Weir IMHO excels at is having fun self insert characters solving problems. When you get past the cruft and get to the "This is a book about troubleshooting in space" sections, it takes off.

asdf69692• 1 year ago

It’s not really good. It feels like the author was just trying to recreate the Martian and it was only written to be turned into a movie. It’s a book for people who don’t usually read. Everyone just talks about the audio book

Arrowmaster2• 1 year ago

The last bit of this comes off as a very snobbish attitude. There are many people that used to enjoy reading but have found it harder to do the sitting down and actually reading part. Audiobooks becoming wildly more accessible over the past few decades has allowed people to consume books in situations they normally would not. I got back into reading when I found myself at a job that I averaged more than 10 hours a week commuting too. I know other people that listen to audiobooks while doing their homework or mowing the lawn.

Listening to audiobooks is still 'reading'. It's very uncommon to get abridged auto books now, so every word is still being consumed. It's just a difference in which sense you are using to consume it.

sircastor• 1 year ago

I absolutely loved it. It’s well structured. The science is well written, but not overbearing. Fun story.

twotwotwo• 1 year ago

I give credit to Andy Weir for knowing what The Martian did well--setting up a bunch of technical problems as load-bearing elements of a plot--and going and executing that same general plan, but with new particulars and bigger and with fun new ideas. The made-up sciencey stuff feels infused with principled ideas about how new things we haven't discovered might work, rather than designed for their role in the story alone. And he's willing to write an ending!

There are things he does not stand out at, but those don't take you out of the story. As people work through things on Earth a lot of the nontechnical parts are, I guess, simplified, but I can't care that much; I didn't pick this up wanting a bureaucratic or psychological thriller. And he (or he + early readers and editors) usually make sure to quickly and efficiently get you through all of that to the next fun part.

SeanAnderson• 1 year ago

The audiobook version is probably my favorite listen to date.

zackify• 1 year ago

It’s an awesome book and I’ve been dying to see how they’ll adapt it to a movie soon

option• 1 year ago

Absolutely fantastic book.

citizenpaul2• 1 year ago

Its OK but if you want something the "Children of time" series byAdrian Tchaikovsky has a similarish story arch and is much better and deeper story.

nullc2• 1 year ago

Just a counterpoint, I loved Project Hail Mary. I wanted my time back after reading Children of time, and it's exceptionally rare that I feel that way about anything scifi. Tastes differ. ::shrugs::

dwood_dev• 1 year ago

I enjoyed it a lot, especially the audio book. I'm not sure how much I would have enjoyed the print version. I can't say much more without spoilers, but the sound effects really make the drama come to life.

colechristensen• 1 year ago

It's really good in the way that the best cheeseburger in town is really good. There are snobbish reasons to dislike it, but it is very good at being what it is. It's a superhero story but instead of magical powers and bad guys, it's a nerd being somewhat implausibly good at solving problems in a sci-fi context.

qingcharles2• 1 year ago

That is a good explanation. I loved Hail Mary, but it's cheeseburger sci-fi. A lot of fun, an easy read, very enjoyable. It's not Michelin Star material, but even Gordon Ramsey eats at Burger King sometimes.

If you enjoyed The Martian (book or film), then this is just more of the same.

vagrantJin• 1 year ago

I listened to the audiobook version and it was fantastic. It will probably get a movie someday.

abcd_f• 1 year ago

It ain't Neuromancer or Hyperion, but it’s a very interesting setup, it’s nicely written and easy to read.

wkat4242• 1 year ago

It's an ok book. I thought Artemis was his most interesting book and also the most underrated. It's got some nice world building, I could imagine an expanse-like series based on it.

Also the main character is a tough girl which is nice.

I liked the Martian but it was a bit too cheerful for a pretty rough situation. And the characters a bit one dimensional. Artemis is a bit grittier.

Project Hail Mary didn't quite resonate with me somehow. It's ok but not a rereader.

southernplaces7• 1 year ago

I loved the book as entertainment. It's brisk, engaging and though at least one reply here mentioned terrible writing, I disagree. Weir has a certain overly strident, cheery style that some might not like, and fair enough, but it is what it is: validly his specific style, and not all that bad for narrative flow as long as it doesn't rub you the wrong way.

The story is also just sentimental enough in an unusual enough way that I fell into it enough to be moved where it counts.

If you want to read it for anything resembling hard science concepts though, forget about it maybe. Weir lays on just enough of his usual technical babble to give a richer scifi feel to the book, but much of the core events are hand-waved into existence well away from anything resembling realism. That's okay though, because realism isn't really the point of the book anyhow.

In "The Martian" I thought the technical stuff was closer to touching on realistic details, since it was about a comparatively simple Mars mission gone wrong. Here though, we're talking about using near-current technology -with a clever plot device for an exotic fuel source- being used to zip around nearby star systems at just a hair under the speed of light, and most of that is complete, utter fantasy in disguise.

I'll give this to Weir though, he's damn imaginative at crafting a lot of very plausible sounding, deeply detailed technical talk, despite it mostly being completely invented.

bitbasher• 1 year ago

I don’t get it. Sending a query to a remote server is going to be much slower than sending the query to local database. When has Postgres not been enough on its own?

abroadwin• 1 year ago

For me it's all about the branching Neon provides. Being able to instantly and automatically have a branch of my production data for every dev branch is incredibly useful.

throwaway77832• 1 year ago

Aren't there data security concerns with this?

akulkarni• 1 year ago

I agree with the overall sentiment of this post.

I’ve learned (sometimes the hard way!) that every design choice comes with real trade-offs. There’s no magic database architecture that optimizes every dimension (e.g., scalability, performance, ease-of-use) simultaneously.

Social media often pushes us into oversimplified "winner vs. loser" narratives, but this hides the actual complexity of building great infrastructure.

Recognizing and respecting these differences makes us smarter engineers, better community members, and frankly, just more enjoyable people to chat with.

PS Thank you for helping me add a new book to my list :-)

mrcwinn• 1 year ago

tldr; Supabase. XD

patrickhogan1• 1 year ago

The discussion centers on speed and scalability. I recently used Neon in a project mainly because it was easy to setup.

grrowl• 1 year ago

Easy to setup and instant forks for devs was it for me. Felt the pain with dev app state in the past and this took <20 minutes to migrate (beta users only) and go live, and get back to feature work.

What 'Project Hail Mary' teaches us about the PlanetScale vs. Neon debate

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