Using Home Assistant, adguard home and an $8 smart outlet to avoid brain rot

https://www.romanklasen.com/blog/beating-brainrot-by-button/

by remuskaos • 1 year ago

371 192 1 year ago

remuskaos9• 1 year ago

Neil Chen just posted this genius idea to disable internet filters for social media addicts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44346450

I've used his idea and make a home assistant automation that temporarily disables adguard home to do the same thing.

NWChen• 1 year ago

Amazing work & thanks for the shoutout Roman!

FrankPetrilli• 1 year ago

Seeing this, I had the initial idea of using AdGuard logs to trigger a power-down of your device if you try and visit brainrot content. I think I like it that way more.

stavros2• 1 year ago

Why is this using a plug rather than a Zigbee button? I don't understand the plug bit.

rcarmo• 1 year ago

The plug has a button, and thus sends out an event when it is manually turned on.

stavros2• 1 year ago

Yes, but so does a button, no?

remuskaos9• 1 year ago

I just had the plug laying around, and since it has a button, it does the job.

But it actually has an advantage: I can plug a small lamp into it. After 14 minutes, the plug switches on and off every 2 seconds, indicating that the time runs out, adding a little drama.

urbandw311er• 1 year ago

Nice idea. But it needs to be harder for me to reverse. I think I would very quickly develop the reflex of disabling WiFi on my phone so it loads the site via mobile data.

mingus88• 1 year ago

Like any addiction, the addict needs to first _want_ to stop

yunwal• 1 year ago

Having the addiction mere seconds away ensures that any addict will not stop, no matter how much they want it. There needs to be enough separation between you and the thing that your rational brain kicks in.

magarnicle• 1 year ago

The trouble I have with all tech-based attempts I've set up to stop myself getting distracted is that it is me versus a much-more-motivated me.

We have the same technical skills but one of us is not going to stop until he wins.

ajolly• 1 year ago

Time Lock boxes. Unless the addicted me wants to resort to hardware damage, he's not winning.

j453• 1 year ago

You can run a VPN no matter the data connection. And delete the apps and have to reinstall them, or login via web.

remuskaos9• 1 year ago

Yeah, thats just how it was when I completely blocked those services on my network.

My hope is that this gentle nuding towards "come on, you've had 15 minutes, now just wait another 45, please?" is enough of a hurdle. I think it's a moderation tool.

mikehotel• 1 year ago

If you don’t mind supervised mode, this can help prevent this bypass: https://www.techlockdown.com/blog/prevent-turning-off-wifi-i...

suprjami• 1 year ago

Glad to see GL-iNet get a mention.

Their routers are OpenWrt compatible by design, the factory firmware is based on owrt or you can flash upstream for a "pure" image. I've used them for many years and they're great.

remuskaos9• 1 year ago

I really like them too. Not only are they OpenWRT compatible, they run more or less stock OpenWRT with a custom UI. They do also expose the standard LuCi for advanced settings too.

p1necone• 1 year ago

I don't know if this'll help anyone else or if it's just specific to me but I'll throw it out there anyway.

Drop the idea that short form content like youtube shorts or tik toks or whatever is somehow ignoble and worthy of scorn. Recognize it's just a fun way to kill some time.

Internalized that? Cool.

Now find a comfy place to sit or lie down and binge that shit. For hours. Do it for as long as it brings you joy. Had your fill? Cool.

Keep doing this, whenever you've got some free time and there isn't something else you want to do more binge that short form "brainrot" content. Do not let the thought that you're somehow "wasting" your time enter your mind. You're having fun, and that's all that matters.

If you're anything like me once you've internalized the idea that it's just dumb short videos for fun and you've watched hours of them, you'll just get bored of it. Maybe you'll spend 20 minutes scrolling occasionally but your brain aint gonna rot.

OtomotO• 1 year ago

That's me circa 2010 when 9gag became really popular.

I used to watch memes and images for hours upon end. Until at some point I just stopped and never did it again.

Over the years people would send some links. I looked at the picture, maybe laughed, and closed the tab.

markerz• 1 year ago

I kind of agree, but the cost is high for young people. I see similar problems between brain rot and junkie snack foods. Older people grew up without this instant gratification and arent used to it the same way young kids are. I grew up with snacks and crave them regularly, but all my older friends don’t even think about snacks the same way I do. I think the addictive this fades with the development of your brain around 25 years old, as well as increased life experiences, but the addiction to short form entertainment is strong enough to prevent you from getting other forms of life experiences that would eventually make that content boring and feel unfulfilling.

As an example, I used to watch a lot of dance videos. Recently I started taking dance classes and the videos just hit different now. The bar is so much higher for me to feel impressed because I’m digesting the content much more efficiently now and so much content is just repetition with slight variation.

Centigonal2• 1 year ago

oh, I wish. I have spent multiple 16 hour days watching just minecraft youtube videos. I'm an adult with responsibilities and many sources of joy and fulfillment outside of youtube. My personal appetite for mindless internet content appears to be infinite.

mavhc• 1 year ago

Spend time examining your own brain to find out why

j_bum• 1 year ago

I think this is dangerous rhetoric.

I’m glad that you had an experience where you found the corner of your internet to be boring. I do not think this is the common experience.

And simply because you didn’t feel impacted by it, does not mean that it’s not bad. This is obviously hyperbolic, but your comment reads to me like someone saying, “I used narcotics all of the time when I was younger, and I’m fine now. So everybody chill out.” That doesn’t mean narcotics are ok.

Social media does change your brain. It doesn’t take much to find research on this, but here’s an example of a longitudinal study of US adolescents [0].

This type of online content is a form of a non-pharmacological “drug”, so to say, as it can dramatically impact reward system connectivity.

[0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9857400/

garrettjoecox• 1 year ago

Dopamine receptors fried. Maybe fine for you, but I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone, kids especially

loveiswork• 1 year ago

There are helpful nuggets of wisdom here. Also let's acknowledge some people are prone to watch hours of short form content a day, every day, at the expense of everything else in their lives, for a very long consecutive time (of course I know him -- he's me). They really are addicting!

kaashif3• 1 year ago

Actually, I've already tried that and found it boring from the start, not just after a few hours. I found context switching between videos to be exhausting, not worth it given the low amount of content per switch, and I prefer vegging out in front of a movie, documentary, or even 30 min YouTube video to be lower effort. This is independent of any consideration of nobility or scorn.

I think the fact that people are scrolling through this stuff and NOT getting bored or tired is interesting, people are different to me in some way I don't understand.

HeWhoLurksLate• 1 year ago

This is probably in the same vein as people finding out they have ADHD by taking drugs at a party and being able to focus for the first time in their lives; you might consider getting a psych eval

II2II• 1 year ago

For some people, that approach may work. If it does work, it's great since it avoids the mental anguish of beating yourself up (which is damaging in it's own right). That said, I can see two scenarios where it won't work: (a) those who have been dealing with the problem for an extended period of time, and (b) those who replace one counter productive habit with another. At the end of the day, we must face the reality that these products are designed to gain and hold people's attention. They are intended to be psychologically difficult to escape from.

j453• 1 year ago

Another thing is it can be easier to remove the junk food from the pantry than try to build the discipline and resistance to not eat it sitting there.

That energy can go towards other things.

spauldo• 1 year ago

Perhaps it's just the ones people keep sending me links to, but I've seen nothing to indicate that short-form videos are not worthy of scorn. At best you get a moderately funny joke, but most I've seen either breeze through a topic that deserves a longer format or they present extremely one-sided views of complex topics. The fact they're often used to further drive the political divide that's destroying my country just makes it worse.

Want me to instantly lower my opinion of you? Send me a link to a Tik-Tok.

remuskaos9• 1 year ago

It seems you're already down voted, but I'd like to respond to this comment anyway. Also, I'll rephrase it slightly:

"Drop the idea that drinking alcohol like shots or beer or whatever is somehow ignoble and worthy of scorn. Recognize it's just a fun way to kill some time (and brain cells).

Internalized that? Cool.

Now find a comfy place to sit or lie down and binge that shit. For hours. Do it for as long as it brings you joy. Had your fill? Cool."

The key is moderation.

I'm not against drinking and I'm not against using Youtube, Reddit, Instagram, Hacker News. But I get sucked into it way more that I want, and this is my way of having a nice old lady ask "haven't you had enough, honey?".

Damn, I've spent days on Youtube, not even on "silly" stuff. There's a limitless supply of educational videos, PBS Space Time, Stumpy Nubs, Phil Salmony, DIY Perks.... But I still have a limited amount of hours in a day. Also I have shared responsibility of several humans and animals in this house, I can't just sit idly behind a screen all day (except for the eight hours I get paid to do it).

userbinator• 1 year ago

Distracting yourself from distractions by building an overly complex system to help you do that, and writing an article about it, is certainly a very HN-ish thing to do.

gerdesj5• 1 year ago

It is possible that OP has made some parts of the story up or at least sexed it up a bit to jibe with the HN mindset (whatever that is).

I found the article refreshingly short and to the point whilst being jolly amusing and informative. The bloke is German so English is a second language - very good skills.

That's a skilled technical writer, that is.

Bookmarked. More please!

remuskaos9• 1 year ago

Thank you, I really appreciate this!

Alas, none of it is made up - honestly. My wife and I kept finding ourselves in the garden on a beautiful day scrolling reddit and instagram for up to an hour, on several occasions. We kind of know we're wasting our time, and we kind of want to, too. It's kind of a constant struggle of uber-me against animal-me and I really hope this moderation tool works how I image it.

After I read Neils post I've completed the entire setup - including blog post - in maybe three hours. So if this keeps me from doom scrolling for an hour at least three times, I've gained some time back.

cainxinth• 1 year ago

We want technological solutions to problems created by technology, and structured approaches to recovering from over-structuring our lives.

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

There is a word for those who believe they cannot live without something, go to whatever means necessary in order to obtain it, even knowing it is harmful, only to find what was once thought an escape is now a prison.

BrenBarn• 1 year ago

More flour more water. More water more flour.

arcanemachiner• 1 year ago

Ted Kaczynski would be proud.

lm28469• 1 year ago

Hey that's what we do with climate change too! Just one more lanes guys, it's going to solve everything I promise

nsgi• 1 year ago

Sometimes this is the distraction you need - building something just for the sake of it can be oddly grounding

elric3• 1 year ago

Modern problems require modern solutions.

But on a more serious note, distraction and focus are difficult topics. When I'm highly motivated, I'm utterly indistractible. When I have to do boring toil, absolutely anything & everything can distract me.

frereubu• 1 year ago

I have recently discovered that hardcore punk (like the album Feel The Darkness by Poison Idea) played at high volume in some headphones really helps me when I have to do those kinds of tasks. My hunch is that is translates my ennui into cathartic anger that I have to do this studpid f__king task, which generates motivation to show it who's boss and I plough through it. YMMV obviously - relies on you enjoying hardcore punk!

drvhali• 1 year ago

Hyperfocus is a defining trait of some types of ADHD and Autism spectrum.

But, don’t discount addiction in-general. Social media, internet use, and gaming are some of the things that can provide quick dopamine hits, which is the problem being addressed here.

Adding a button to turn it off for a short-time is like heating just a tiny spoon of heroin and injecting it. No AA sponsor should ever say, “Yeah, it’s ok to dip your tongue in that whiskey.” That’s nonsense.

anal_reactor• 1 year ago

Why aren't you motivated then? Is it because you're aware that most of your work is utterly pointless?

sigbottle• 1 year ago

For me, the issue is, I always know that once I actually get into it it will be fine, but getting started even for that day is a toil.

For all my progress up there both intellectually and as a person, I'm still someone who will just sit in bed for 1 hour before work and watch brainrot instead of getting up and getting ready for work. Or sit in bed reading reddit for a few hours on a weekend before making myself breakfast.

Once I get into it, it's fine, but the thought of spending ~30-45 minutes getting up and properly starting the day is enough to make me procrastinate hours away :(

BrandoElFollito2• 1 year ago

I code for fun and when I have an idea it is difficult for me to start.

The weird thing is that this is for fun, I have no pressure but still need some time to just start. Once I started I can go for a line time.

dirkc• 1 year ago

Distracting yourself by reading and commenting about someone distracting themselves from distractions by building an overly complex system is the ultimate HN thing to do ;P

_Algernon_• 1 year ago

If you identify a problem behavior then putting extrinsic constraints to manage that behavior seems like a reasonable thing to do. This comment reads like disparaging an ex-smoker for not still walking around with cigarettes in their pocket.

conductr2• 1 year ago

I read the article as if it was written by a smoker, that wanted to quit so badly, he engineered a complex machine that would only dispense him a cigarette on a defined and spaced out schedule. Thereby, not quitting at all.

illiac786• 1 year ago

Much simpler is using nextDNS as ad filter.

But, even AdGuard isn’t that complex, I think it’s a one time distraction with some maintenance, compared to endless ads eating away at your brain, hours after hours. Worth it I say =)

smileysteve• 1 year ago

Especially when nextdns has a free tier.

s3p• 1 year ago

I love it though!! These kinds of projects are fun to do and attack a real life use case for the creator. I bet he and his girlfriend get good use out of it. If my roommate wasn't so insistent on unfettered access to internet, I'd try to do similar DNS filtering for our apartment.

polivier3• 1 year ago

I love Home Assistant.

Many years ago we gave our then-toddler an old digital camera to play with. Some time later, we looked at the pictures he took. We were horrified to find out that he took pictures of the outside of the house at night. As in, our toddler would unlock and open the front door, go outside (at night!), take pictures of the house, go back in, close and lock the door, and go back into his bed. I bought some wireless door sensors and created an automation where if the sensors are triggered between 10pm and 6am, the lights in our room would turn on to wake us up.

I expanded this later and today we have sensors on all doors/windows that kids can use to leave the house (we have 4 young kids). As it happens, these are the same doors/windows that burglars can use to enter the house, so this doubles as an alarm system (that we can activate when we leave the house and will notify us remotely if the sensors are triggered).

The best part is that with Home Assistant you are not locked into an app/ecosystem. Our door/window sensors are of a different brand than our lightbulbs, and we control everything from a single app.

mcgrath_sh• 1 year ago

What door/window sensors did you use?

polivier3• 1 year ago

I almost went for the Ikea ones, but in the end I went with Aqara. More expensive, but very small/reliable, and the battery holds up very well.

BLKNSLVR• 1 year ago

This, for me, is the most interesting part of your comment:

our toddler would unlock and open the front door, go outside (at night!), take pictures of the house, go back in, close and lock the door, and go back into his bed.

Did you ever ask your toddler why they did this? The thought process, for a toddler, to do that, to want a photo of the outside of the house at night enough to do that. That's some high level curiosity, worth fostering.

One of mine at that age would have had that level of quirkiness, but probably would have been too scared of "the dark" (also, our house already had a security system installed when we bought it, which we still set off accidentally every now and then, so the kids would probably have known that as well).

litmus-pit-git• 1 year ago

Result might not be as expected ;-)

A much younger cousin used to do that — sans the camera or photo taking part in my village. He could barely talk. When asked around that time and a bit later as well, because it continued, he said something that spooked some in the family. He let us know that she was playing with someone in the large courtyard. Some women in the family (at night after dinner they would all socialise away from work and male intervention relaxed; a very South Asian thing) would remark the way he would sometimes play away in a corner in the gigantic courtyard in the evening (evenings in the city — in a lot of villages 7-8pm is quite the night) - as if he was playing with someone. Something, at least two more toddlers in the family had attested to before him. They all were teens/adults later at that time. Even the description matched. I was a teen, who stayed in boarding schools, and had been bullied too much and sadly bullied others too much in the guise of ghosts and what not so I didn’t believe it, I don’t believe it now. But it was weird. I think it is some kind of family memory or shit. My later explanation is/was — someone scared those kids with such stories so that they won’t wander around alone at night and they kind of started living it.

interloxia• 1 year ago

Mine has perfectly sensible reasons from their point of view for a three year old.

Fortunately the problem door has an old security chain held in by by time and wishful thinking but good enough to keep her in for now.

polivier3• 1 year ago

I don't recall if we asked him why he did this, but we did make it clear that he should never leave the house alone at his age. Curiosity-wise, however, we generally let our kids explore the world on their own terms as long as it's not dangerous. And "dangerous", in our view, is understood to be "lasting permanent damage" (doing something that can lead to losing an eye is dangerous, doing something that can lead to breaking a finger is not dangerous).

russdill• 1 year ago

you...uh, are not alone https://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2020/09/richard.html

ljf• 1 year ago

What an excellent story! I need to explore the rest of that site now, cheers for the introduction.

awaymazdacx5• 1 year ago

rasberry pi-5 for HDMI virtualization on a Wayland windows manager column should serve adguard assistance

tmhrtly2• 1 year ago

The one thing I’ve found that works for me on my phone is the OneSec app. It hooks into shortcuts (for apps) and a Safari extension (for websites) to prompt you with a small task to do (eg a 20sec breathing exercise) before you access the softblocked content. The time delay + task is enough for me to remind myself that this isn’t what I want to be doing. And in the instances where I actually do consciously want to visit XYZ platform, I can just do the exercise and be granted access.

The only downside is that the Safari extension is granted full access to my web browsing in order to facilitate the website blocking. They say they don’t capture any data and at this point do trust them (you may feel differently). For blocking apps, no private data sharing is required.

johncole• 1 year ago

Could I use a shortcut on iPhone to do something similar?

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

The one thing I’ve found that works for me on my phone is the OneSec app.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the Luddite one; put the phone down and step away from it.

If this appears to be an insurmountable ask, or otherwise infeasible, I humbly suggest there is a greater concern to be addressed than what yet another app on the phone which cannot be distanced may remedy.

nkrisc• 1 year ago

It’s too true. If your problem is your phone, the solution won’t be found on your phone.

tmhrtly2• 1 year ago

I agree, this is the pathway. For me, this is the tool I’ve found that works to nudge me down that pathway by adding extra friction to the routes to cheap, crap dopamine. Often an interruption from this app is accompanied by my brain going “huh, so what do you really want to use this time for?”.

dsauerbrun• 1 year ago

how do you and others get past all the permissions that onesec needs? They say everything remains on device; however, it's a closed source application so there's not really any way to confirm that besides looking at the packets that are going out of your phone.

atommclain• 1 year ago

I don't have this app installed, but I would use the App Privacy Report in settings to inspect the App Network Activity to see what domains it connects to and how often. While not conclusive, I think it could provide some level of insight to whether it's handing off your information or not. Ideally it wouldn't make any network connections.

mrheosuper• 1 year ago

imagine your child is chocking and that app asking you to "breath calmly in 20s"

varenc• 1 year ago

I do something similar but with a global keyboard shortcut on my Mac managed with Alfred. When I hit the shortcut it just changes my system's DNS resolver to 1.1.1.1 and reset the macOS DNS cache. And then automatically switches back in 1 minute or 10 minutes depending on the shortcut.

Quite easy, but doesn't help anyone but me. Though I like that it only disables blocking on my device and not my entire network.

gerdesj5• 1 year ago

When I specify smart home stuff, I have several criteria. Things like controls must be mains powered or on UPS or both.

If it is important, then if wifi/ethernet out then it should still work. So my doorbell used to have a link to a mechanical chime (Doorbird), the current Reolink jobbie does not but it is PoE and all my switches have UPS. The Reolink does have a separate chime that plugs into a power socket and a way better camera.

Oh and none of my home things ever get unfettered access to the internet. I have two VLANs for IoT: things is for most devices and sewer is for those that scare me somewhat.

I treat the whole thing the same way I do corporate IT and I do point Nessus at it. I have several Home Assistants that I look after - home and work and several customer ones too.

The OP's choice of smart plug is clearly designed to be mildly inconvenient to get at but also reliable. I'll put money on there being a monitoring function too.

That's a nerd that does things "proper like".

phil21• 1 year ago

The Reolink does have a separate chime that plugs into a power socket and a way better camera

I started using PoE to DC power adapters for most of these use-cases. It lets me centralize my UPS to the utility closet, and offer a ton of runtime that way. My router + switching setup now powers my entire house including remote switches (PoE++ powered) and access points. Security cameras (and slowly now - security floodlights) are PoE powered as well. I have probably 12-14 hours of runtime off a large stack of UPS batteries, and could add a few days to that if I wheel my "whole home" UPS I never had the time to hardwire into the house yet into the room.

Items like the fiber NIU and cable modem are powered via PoE splitters into 9/12/24V outputs they require. I still have a few random bridges and other various devices I should convert as well, but I've been lazy lately.

I went with two lower port count "core" switches vs. one so I have redundancy there, so one going out will only take out half my network and I can still operate in a degraded mode - my AP density is such that it works fine, and I can re-patch the in-wall and PoE powered switches for workstations.

The only issue is that it kind of grows with a mind of it's own... I am up to an absurd number of devices on the network now.

gerdesj5• 1 year ago

I live in a UK sticks n bricks two storey roof and a half building. It looks like a bungalow with three bedrooms in the roof on floor one (second floor for the US and other one based countries).

I have two switches in my attic above those bedrooms and most of the rest of IT.

That means I can easily run cable drops along my attic and then under the roof to the outer walls of my house. I've run four Cat 5e to my garage and four to my sitting room.

Basically, I think we are both doing it right.

The biggest criticism of IoT is insecure and unreliable. If you buy any old tat and wire it up to Alexa well that's fine if it hangs together and it mostly does these days. If you squint hard enough, you can forget about Alexa being a bit of a security ... quandry.

There is no such thing as absurd when it comes to automation.

ricardobeat• 1 year ago

Unfortunately there is no way to block websites at the network level (that I know of) as browsers and mobile phones have started using hardcoded DNS resolvers, so the utility of this is limited.

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

Unfortunately there is no way to block websites at the network level (that I know of) as browsers and mobile phones have started using hardcoded DNS resolvers, so the utility of this is limited.

Any network traffic which goes through a gateway under your control can be controlled. DNSSEC[0] can make this more difficult, true, but not impossible as content ultimately originates from an IPv4/IPv6 address and can be dropped by upstream network devices.

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System_Security_Ex...

remuskaos9• 1 year ago

I thought I commented on this from my phone, but it seems it didn't go through, so I'll try again.

Most apps I've tried (and browsers too) can be blocked just fine via DNS. The gli.net interface allows "Override DNS Settings of All Clients" and "DNS Rebinding Attack Protection". This way, the router itself is the only resolver actually reachable. Even if I try some manual `dig google.com @1.1.1.1`, I still get the routers result.

The only thing it can't block is DNS over Https. I think that's by design, it seems it's impossible to block that.

elric3• 1 year ago

browsers and mobile phones have started using hardcoded DNS resolvers, so the utility of this is limited

Got a source for that? No phone or browser that I'm aware of uses "hardcoded DNS resolvers". They all use the OS DNS servers which the OS gets from DHCP.

brynx97• 1 year ago

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-dns-over-https

By extension, any application or device could rely on DoH instead of OS-provided or network-provider DNS servers. It is controversial, since it both helps individuals combat ISP or government censorship and also helps bad actors do bad things [1].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS#Analysis_of_DNS...

ethan_smith• 1 year ago

You can still block at network level by configuring your router to intercept all port 53 traffic, redirect DNS-over-HTTPS using firewall rules for known DoH providers, and employ TLS inspection on your gateway for complete control.

jz10• 1 year ago

NextDNS Privacy and Parental control features works really well for me

day_visit• 1 year ago

I do the same but I'm embarrassed to say sometimes I go into the parental settings and change them to "get my fix". I haven't found an option to "lock" the settings from being changed when I need them most.

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

Here is a gradated set of exercises to determine one's phone addiction, if any, in increasing levels of potential difficulty.

  1 - on an off day, with no reason to require phone use,
    put your phone in a dresser drawer for the day and
    do not use or look at it.

  2 - on an off day, with no reason to require phone use,
    put your phone in a dresser drawer for the day and
    leave your residence for at least one hour.

  3 - leave your phone at home when either meeting friends,
    getting lunch, or going to the grocery store.

  4 - leave your phone at home when going into the office
    for one day.

  5 - leave your phone in a dresser drawer for an entire
    weekend.

  6 - leave your phone at home when traveling for more
    than a day (vacation, visiting family, etc.).

myself248• 1 year ago

These are very good. I take phone-free walks around the neighborhood, to the store, downtown for a festival. It feels weird at first, then it's nice.

I took an internet-free vacation last spring, and it was lovely.

While planning the trip, I made sure my old TomTom's built-in maps seemed accurate to what I was seeing online; there wasn't a lot of road-building activity there in the last decade or two. Then I turned off my phone and locked it in the glovebox, there in case of emergency.

Then I took a deep breath, started the car, and headed north.

It was awesome just knowing there was no way a notification could ding, nobody could call me, no news headline could pop up and harsh my mellow. Even if those things didn't actually happen constantly, simply existing in a state where they could was stressful, apparently, and turning the damn thing off was remarkably cathartic.

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

Reading your story brings joy to my heart, not for any reason other than I can see in my mind's eye what you describe. And it rocks!

Freedom is a gift, not from without, but found from within.

We set ourself free by our choices. And we shackle ourselves by same.

rrr_oh_man3• 1 year ago

If you haven't done it, yet: Turn notifications off. All of them. It will improve your life.

thi2• 1 year ago

The hardest challenge is not using your phone when sitting on the toilet

zargon• 1 year ago

If you sit on the toilet long enough to have time to look at your phone, you should probably address that.

syabro• 1 year ago

Old good air freshener label reading

mwidell2• 1 year ago

I also recommend getting an Apple Watch with cellular – that way you can still be reached for emergencies, while not having access to any social media or other distractions. Since I got an apple watch I find myself leaving the phone at home more often.

shreezus• 1 year ago

Agreed - I disabled all non-essential notifications (I don't need Slack pinging my wrist) and have found my watch actually helps me ditch the phone more easily.

I'm still "reachable", but the watch UX is annoying enough that I won't find myself scrolling X etc on it.

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

I also recommend getting an Apple Watch with cellular – that way you can still be reached for emergencies ...

For people who realistically could require emergency contact (parents of minor children, family members with health risks, etc.) this is a wise recommendation.

However, for those not having these very genuine concerns, an Apple Watch with cellular connectivity (or equivalent device) could engender a placebo effect and mask withdrawal.

gattilorenz• 1 year ago

Wouldn’t a dumbphone work better for a fraction of the price?

stiray2• 1 year ago

Very nice, will use it on my child, but this doesn't cover my case.

I have it as a wallet (those flip cases) so it is always with me. But it can stay in backpack for days without using it, except maybe for calls (to talk with parents after I don't call for weeks :D) and to pay for public transit (huge mess to charge nfc cards). I don't use social networks, chat software (sms excluded) at all, never even registered to fb, cant even remember when was the last time I installed any app.

I consider this a very sane use of phone. It is not addiction, rather satisfying addicted society that is pressuring me to use it.

j453• 1 year ago

Paying with a watch is a nice alternative too.

Beyond not having the phone with you, I think the real measure is the number of times it's picked up and/or unlocked.

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

Very nice, will use it on my child, but this doesn't cover my case.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I need to point out what I originally stated was:

  ... exercises to determine one's phone addiction, if any ...

Note the "if any" qualifier.

You express having no phone addiction and I have no reason to think otherwise. More importantly, I am not going to adjudicate as to yourself or anyone else.

CGMthrowaway• 1 year ago

How does this work when you need a phone for 2fa?

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

How does this work when you need a phone for 2fa?

See the stipulation of:

  on an off day, with no reason to require phone use

If you "need a phone for 2fa" then that qualifies as a "reason to require phone use."

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

How does this work when you need a phone for 2fa?

Just out of curiosity, suppose you are not on-call for work and it is an observed holiday. Do you foresee the need for two factor authentication for non-work activities?

In other words, is 2fa a requirement for daily life?

rrr_oh_man3• 1 year ago

1Password?

ecb_penguin2• 1 year ago

You work around it

1. Get a hardware token

2. Install a TOTP desktop client

3. Only use the phone for 2FA

4. You understand the spirit of the exercise and don't get bogged down by silly rules.

jskherman• 1 year ago

Looks like I just inadvertently skipped to level 4 every workday, due to working inside of a restricted area with lots of proprietary industrial stuff.

annie_muss4• 1 year ago

The problem is I know that I am completely addicted, but I cannot stop. I feel like I'm the alcoholic drinking a bottle of vodka a day. I have tried to give up many times but I just can't crack it. Every time I have a good day the next day just slides right back into addiction. I probably average around 5-10 hours of pointless screen time a day (scrolling random youtube clips. Researching items I will never buy. Fantasizing about jobs I can never get. )

I have tried all kinds of blocking software and strategies. Blocking software, however elaborate, never seems to make a different. You find one way or another to get around the block and then after a while turning off the block just becomes part of your muscle memory. The most extreme thing I tried was cutting off the internet to my house and going back to a dumbphone for 6 months. For sure, I probably had less screen time. But I also spent many hours sitting in the station using the public wifi or watching hours and hours of pointless television.

This is a really tough nut to crack. I think there is probably no technological solution to it.

kolinko3• 1 year ago

Did you check yourself for adhd?

omikun• 1 year ago

Addiction is not the problem. It is a (poor) solution to a problem. Figure what your underlying problem is and address it first. Without doing that, you are only taking away one solution with no alternative.

For me, I noticed I have no compulsion to surf after hanging out with friends where I have their attention and curiosity and they have mine. It is like an oxytocin surge that depletes overtime and needs recharging. Scrolling is like junk food in that it feels like a recharge but empties as soon as I stop.

I now call up a friend or arrange a hangout if I feel like I’m running low and it’s amazing how many friends are delighted to hear from me but then never reach out.

rightbyte• 1 year ago

Have you tried mounting the phone to a wall or something when at home?

I figure the accessibility of phones are what makes the mindless scrooling habit so dangerous.

I mean I keep my beer in the garage to not drink as much.

abyssin• 1 year ago

One solution to how easy it is to get around self-inflicted blocks could be to find someone that agrees to manage your phone using the parental features. Personally I haven't found someone who I feel I could trust with such a power over me. Maybe a solution would be to pay somebody.

pjc50• 1 year ago

watching hours and hours of pointless television

This is the thing; the brain is not actually comfortable just sitting idle with the reins slack. There's got to be some stimulus. I don't think there's any real solution other than finding a displacement activity. I know somebody who weaned themselves off smoking by developing a Gameboy Tetris addiction instead.

Other than going out and trying to be social, there's a whole range of "something to do with your hands" activities. If you take up knitting then at least at the end of it you have a scarf. Myself, I'm trying to train myself to open one of the language learning apps every time I think I'm spending time scrolling.

wltr• 1 year ago

My solution to this was substitute one thing for another. E.g. instead of visiting Facebook, I visit hacker news. But since I just hate most of the posts, comments, ycombinator and dang personally, I tend to spend much less time here. It’s less engaging than flashy Instagram, Facebook, or real news websites, so I’m less addicted. Over time, it’s easier to fight the smaller addiction. Given this HN example, I still can spend hours reading comments to some active topic, but when I see some sheer stupidity, I realise ‘hey, I’m just wasting my time here!’ And it’s easier to close the tab and go back to the real world.

littlecranky672• 1 year ago

Try to parental software and put the code into a time-lock like lockmeout.online - there is no way to bypass that or circumvent your way around it if you do it right in the first place.

AdieuToLogic11• 1 year ago

Full disclosure:

  I am just some rando on the internet and only share
  what I hope will help.  In no way is the below a
  replacement for professional counseling.

> The problem is I know that I am completely addicted, but I cannot stop. I feel like I'm the alcoholic drinking a bottle of vodka a day. I have tried to give up many times but I just can't crack it.

My first recommendation is to try to not beat yourself up about this. No one knows how to hurt you more than yourself.

My second recommendation is to take small steps and allow yourself time for each new habit to become entrenched. For example, keep your phone in your pocket instead of visibly near. Once that feels natural, incorporate the next habit which you feel reduces the device's prominence in daily life.

I have tried all kinds of blocking software and strategies. Blocking software, however elaborate, never seems to make a different.

As others have mentioned and you describe, using an app on the device to alter dependency on the device likely will not work as the device remains the focal point.

This is a really tough nut to crack. I think there is probably no technological solution to it.

It is and I believe you are entirely correct in identifying "no technological solution to it." If we pursue this hypothesis to its logical conclusion, then one or more solutions must exist outside the technical space. Which suggests a solution might be found in the behavioral space as the two actors in this scenario are a person and a device.

I'm not saying this will be easy nor simple, only that I hope you find peace in finding your solution.

kobenni2• 1 year ago

This post reminds me of myself in the past.

One thing I found very helpful was to regularly practice mindfulness meditation, as it reduces my desire for entertainment and generally seems to improve my executive function a lot. It also caused other improvements to my well-being in general.

Regarding a technological solution to blocking, I did the following (on Android, I can handle myself on non-portable devices):

1: Use adguard to block the relevant addresses on DNS level. I chose adguard specifically because it allows setting regex-like patterns on what addresses to block, eliminating loop holes.

2: Use applock (I haven't informed if applock specifically is better or worse than alternatives) to require a passcode when opening settings, when opening adguard, and when opening applock itself. Store this passcode in a way that it's cumbersome but possible to reach. Ask a friend or relative to set and store it for you if necessary.

3: Remove the icons of adguard and applock from the home screen, so that they are only reachable through settings -> apps.

This has worked well for me. It's cumbersome enough to discourage me from deactivating it. It's not so cumbersome that I can't update the block list if necessary. It's flexible enough that I can very precisely choose what to block and what not. And it's specialized for (android) smartphones, which are the worst scrolling addiction drivers.

You could also throw in Google parental controls to stop yourself from downloading apps if necessary, but I found that DNS blocks are enough for me.

If you struggle with other devices as well, like TVs, consider whether you can get away with not owning these devices at all.

All that being said, professional psychological help for addiction and executive dysfunction exists. That would have been my last resort if the methods mentioned above hadn't turned out to be sufficient for me.

Good luck, don't give up.

leokennis• 1 year ago

This is a good one. My phone is my memory. If I ever need to be without a phone, I 100% need to carry a notebook and pen. And likely a camera.

rrr_oh_man3• 1 year ago

If I ever need to be without a phone, I 100% need to carry a notebook and pen. And likely a camera.

Try it once a week. It will improve your life immeasurably.

franga2000• 1 year ago

I guess it's a good test for something, but I wouldn't call that something "phone addiction". I think wanting to be reachable by friends and family is fine and "addiction" starts when you start compulsively using your phone, like if you're scrolling through [insert social media here].

And phones are much more than content consumption machines - I like having a little pocket camera with me in case a see a new cat in the neighbourhood or something, and looking up bus schedules, renting city bikes, calling a cab, etc. are things I all but need to be able to do when I'm out.

My trick to almost never looking at my phone has been, somewhat ironically, having a smartwatch, as well as carefully curating the notifications I get on my phone. If I know I can't miss an important notification, I'll never even look at my phone, so there's no chance I even see one of those time wasting apps. And when a notification buzzes on my wrist, I can see in a fraction of a second if it's something really important or if it can wait.

jszymborski• 1 year ago

Smartwatches similarly have had the same effect for me and I can anecdotally recommend it.

I think another thing to consider is having ways for people to reach you _without_ your cell phone. For instance, I have a home phone, and calling my cell also rings that home phone. You could set up something similar if you have an office phone, or using a softphone on your desktop. That leaves you with instances where you leave home or the office, which are honestly cases where I'm personally least likely to look at my phone because I'm usually doing things that occupy my full attention (unless I'm commuting where I'm often reading a book on my phone).

Ajedi32• 1 year ago

Yeah, this feels to me a bit like trying to find out if you're addicted to indoor plumbing by committing to not flushing your toilet for a week.

Maybe if we were talking about social media or some other non-essential service on my phone, but the phone itself is hard to do without because of its practical utility, not because of addiction.

ikr6782• 1 year ago

Being reachable by family and friends 24/7 has only been normal in the past 25 years. For the entire rest of human history, we seemed to do fine without this.

I think it also has changed what our perception of a true emergency is. When I was a kid, if I needed to be picked up from an event, it was on me to be at the pickup point at the right time, and my parent to be there. If for whatever reason we couldnt make it, there was always an alternative plan 'wait at the meetup, wait inside the venue, go home with a friend'.

Not getting picked up and being forced to wait with some uncertainty was not an emergency, it was an inconvenience.

bravesoul22• 1 year ago

7. Keep your Nokia 3210 with you at all times

blitzar• 1 year ago

in increasing levels of potential difficulty

Level 0 or 100 depending on the person: take your phone with you and just don't a) look at it every 5 minutes, b) reply to incoming messages instantly or c) check in to see what some pointless celebrity posted in the last 3 minutes.

theoreticalmal• 1 year ago

I feel like I always “need” my phone, as it is my car key, workout tracker, garage door opener, baby monitor, and HVAC controller. Obviously I could have separate physical devices for all those tasks, but the whole reason I run my homelab is so that I can control them from one portable item that’s always on me

BeFlatXIII• 1 year ago

Interestingly, I'd find #1 to be significantly harder than 2 and about half the scenarios in 3 [waiting for friends and would make me nervous without real time updates].

The temptation is too great to get bored and check my phone when I'm in the house with it.

littlecranky672• 1 year ago

You can set the phone unlock code to a very long combination and put the unlock code into a time-lock [0]. No temptation there, yet you can still take calls and make outgoing calls (using Siri or Assistant), use the camera etc.

[0]: lockmeout.online

ec109685• 1 year ago

I don’t think addiction is the right way to look at it.

I think most people can easily do all the way through #6 if they put their mind to it. It’s not a physical addiction.

The real cost is when you’re not intentionally trying to deprive yourself. Do you gravitate back to unhealthy (at least the way you define it) behaviors?

noisy_boy• 1 year ago

Most of the time, I don't carry a wallet so I just use my phone to tap and pay at the store. To get to the store, I use my phone on the bus to tap and buy ticket. To get back into my residence, I need to use the app on my phone to open the main gate as well as access the lift.

I can still do the first two without the phone but my housing society has eliminated physical cards with basically zero consultation.

It is basically a losing battle.

Exoristos• 1 year ago

Your tests may work on plebs, but I have a smartwatch.

wildpeaks• 1 year ago

A good compromise is to set apps to use only wifi and disable data mode of the SIM card, this way you don't receive notifications when you're outside without sacrificing the ability to call for support in case of emergency or simply take photos to capture a fleeting moment.

subscribed• 1 year ago

7: don't have breakdown when travelling to your family without phone.

moffkalast• 1 year ago

Yeah if there's a thing I could advise anyone is do not leave the one thing that combines literally everything one could need in an emergency and everyone relies on and expects you to have, at home.

If there's every a solid reason to use a phone it's when travelling.

weq• 1 year ago

Modern day methadone maintainence plan. So many people in this world need this button! Goodluck on your journey!

I quite tech at home when i started working as a software engineer over 20yrs ago. Hobbies are a great way to break free, and quitting news fullstop is another good way to avoid social media. You dont even need to delete your accounts, just turn off all notifications of every app and avoid coupling your life to them in any way.

cdg007• 1 year ago

I'm down with innovations

alkonaut2• 1 year ago

I'm sure there's no amount of ads or social media that will rot your brain faster than trying to do programming in YAML.

tigrezno• 1 year ago

With homeassistant you don't need yaml for 99% of automations. I'm sure OP posted the source code of the automation but used the graphical UI to make it.

You also have the possibility to use Node-Red for that.

alkonaut2• 1 year ago

I have used HA quite a bit and been burned. I think in the choice between graphical "no code" or "low code" and yaml, I choose yaml. But to do imperative logic there is just one useful way: a proper programming language.

This is just like when writing CI scripts for GitHub actions or Azure pipelines: the right amount of yaml (if it must be used at all) is to just invoke a program in some more expressive language than yaml.

cess11• 1 year ago

Conditioning oneself like some kind of lab rodent is unlikely to avoid brain damage.

Shame has a better and longer track record.

roscas• 1 year ago

"The internet is the bane of my existence. Ads, distractions, sponsored content, bad news, bad ideas, more ads, social media, antisocial media, even more ads." that is call for Pi-Hole on a Raspberry PI install. Wide block of ads and dns firewall all in one, without any "free trial" from AdGuard. I wonder what is their default "white list"...

baggachipz• 1 year ago

This is so much easier to accomplish with a pi-hole and the pihole remote app[1]. Block requests out to forbidden sites at the network level, disable the pihole for an amount of time when you want to slum it.

[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pi-hole-remote/id1515445551

remuskaos9• 1 year ago

Well the inconvenience is kind of the point. I don't want another app on my phone to allow me to indulge.

The point is that I have to walk, physically move, to the corner where the plug is, push the button and be allowed to procrastinate. That is the design hurdle, not so high as to block completely, but just high enough that I don't get sucked into the endless feed each time I'm bored.

Edit: Also I want the granularity. Ads should always - without exception - be blocked. Social media should be allowed on demand and within the rules.

hydrogen7800• 1 year ago

I did something more low tech, but much more expensive. Not that I have the tech chops to do anything more sophisticated than install pihole (with help), though. I bought a 2001 E39 BMW that requires some work. I still doomscroll too much, but half is now about this car and car repair in general.

neurostimulant• 1 year ago

An ikea tradfri on/off switch seems better for this purpose. I think the one with just on/off switches is discontinued as it's no longer listed in their website, and it has steep discount in their brick and mortar stores, cost <$8 the last time I grabbed one.

orsenthil• 1 year ago

Does anyone know how to block ads in Amazon Prime Videos?

e40• 1 year ago

My serious answer to this is to torrent the content.

rlue• 1 year ago

Great concept. But author, if you're reading this: a piece like this could be so much better with a quick summary of what it does somewhere in the first two paragraphs. Something like:

"I've leveraged my home automation system to limit my access to social media to 15 minutes at a time, no more than once an hour. Using the built-in adblock feature, my router black-holes DNS queries to social media by default—which I can now disable temporarily by pushing the button on any one of several smart outlets around my house."

BrandoElFollito2• 1 year ago

I must have missed something, but why not just using a zigbee button to trigger the 15 min of open internet?

guluarte• 1 year ago

I have found that the problem with smart home automation is that it suddenly stops working after an update, and fixing it becomes annoying, and when you have multiple triggers and routines you lose track of what activated what.

bmicraft2• 1 year ago

That's not really true with home assistant. The two exceptions are devices which

  - require third party cloud services
  - use custom integrations (because they aren't natively supported by HA)

Which is also why everybody and their dog recommend getting devices which support local control.

Using Home Assistant, adguard home and an $8 smart outlet to avoid brain rot

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