Industry groups are not happy about the imminent demise of Energy Star

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/08052025/energy-star-program-could-be-eliminated-by-trump-administration/

by Tomte • 1 year ago

86 110 1 year ago

I wouldn't want to ascribe too much method to this madness, but the increases for defense, homeland security and immigration control in the 2026 budget request, combined with a desire to be seen as cutting the budget rather than increasing spending, could have set the extreme civilian costcutting requirements.

What the administration is preparing for that requires raising defense spending to one trillion is beyond me. Actually it's not.

tomrod7• 1 year ago

It's not madness, it's political targeting in excess of good governance.

squigz• 1 year ago

What the administration is preparing for that requires raising defense spending to one trillion is beyond me. Actually it's not.

Why do you think America is suddenly 'preparing' for something? Hasn't defence spending steadily increased for quite a long time now?

tomrod7• 1 year ago

The Mad King Trump wants all the trappings of North Korea, with military parades and silencing of political dissent.

Ignores Congress (impoundment), ignores SCOTUS (Abrego Garcia), corruptly enriches himself from his position (Meme coin), cuts social programs (numerous), encourages stochastic terrorism (numerous), and expresses sentiments fully divorced from reality or otherwise distracting from heinous and corrupt actions.

whatshisface6• 1 year ago

Hasn't defence spending steadily increased for quite a long time now?

Not as a percentage of GDP. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/uni...

The administration has expressed a desire to destroy several other countries over the last year. Iran, Denmark's autonomous territory Greenland and Canada stand out for being explicitly named, and China for being a career target of important advisors. Iran out of all these is singled out by congressional support and a history of military action in the region. In conclusion, the administration most likely wants to invade Iran.

https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-says-there-will-be-bombi...

singleshot_2• 1 year ago

I'd be a little more concerned about offense spending than defense spending with this guy.

graemep3• 1 year ago

What the administration is preparing for that requires raising defense spending to one trillion is beyond me.

A cold war with China. Everything they are doing is based around that expectation.

whatshisface6• 1 year ago

Cutting national science foundation funding by 55% doesn't match with a cold war against a peer adversary, so I'm leaning towards Iran being the imagined target.

newsclues3• 1 year ago

If it’s a valuable program someone else can do the work.

Oh no, the government is not doing something… so someone can turn it into a business or start a nonprofit or academia can do something useful.

And government resources can help other more critical projects.

whatshisface6• 1 year ago

The government has a couple of things that a startup doesn't:

1. The trust of the public. (This is essential for certifications.)

2. The ability to borrow at the lowest interest rate. (This is mainly due to the above.)

That makes spending to organize or coordinate the industry and the public a natural government activity.

tomrod7• 1 year ago

Also, provision of public goods.

newsclues3• 1 year ago

The trust is the energy star brand, not the organization that owns it. Also parts of the public do not trust government.

Not sure why a long running and effective program needs government to borrow money, especially if industry finds the program valuable (enough to fund).

I’m fine with government starting programs like this, but think they should eventually be divested and run as self sufficient organizations and not constantly be a drain on the taxpayer.

anonym293• 1 year ago

The government does not have the trust of the public. Presidential approval ratings in recent administrations have been under 50% on both sides of the aisle and Congress is even lower than that.

If anything, distrust of government is nearly a core value inherent to being an American, again - regardless of which side you're on. Stonewall, George Floyd Protests, and Jan 6 were all protests against government, and they're all progress compared to the past, when these tensions would have instead started armed conflicts, like the anti-government sentiment that started both the revolutionary war and the civil war.

delfinom• 1 year ago

The problem is industry is under capitalism. They have all the incentive to start their own programs, numerous multiples of that are completely misleading and unfair to one up each other on marketing.

Instead of their being one central neutral auditor.

newsclues3• 1 year ago

If your claim is the problem is capitalism, and that industry is beholden to it, your argument fails to consider the government’s relationship with capitalism.

constantcrying3• 1 year ago

I don't know why you get down voted for saying something so sensible.

You are exactly right. Industry can create their own certification scheme with some independent entity, which sets the certification standards. Energy star is not safety relevant, which is the one thing which government arguably should have oversight over.

fzeroracer2• 1 year ago

Why should the government have oversight over safety? If it's so critical, then the industry can create their own independent entity and safety scheme.

fzeroracer2• 1 year ago

Does your argument equally apply to things like food standards and safety? I'm curious where your cutoff for this is, or if you genuinely believe the government should provide no services at all.

trollbridge• 1 year ago

I always chuckle when I boot up some old PC with a clone BIOS in 86Box and the Energy Star logo pops up.

bombcar• 1 year ago

What did that even mean? The PC supported some form of sleep?

detourdog5• 1 year ago

The BIOS controls the energy usage of the PC which would include the ability to sleep.

nothercastle7• 1 year ago

Energy star like CAFE for cars was well intentioned but ended up driving all sorts of undesirable design practices to hit the ratings. Manufacturers especially in the high end chase the highest rating and design appliances that do a poor job of cleaning to hit the low water use target. In the end we all end up eating a bunch of unwashed detergent to save a gallon of water or using 10 gallons to pre and post rinse. That being said a lot of these problems could have been updated into the standard instead of killing it but industry groups didn’t allow that so now it’s going to die and everyone losses.

prof-dr-ir• 1 year ago

[citation needed]

mjevans• 1 year ago

I believe it; it's like the first decade or two of low-flow / flush toilets which were generally just terrible and ineffective.

Hopefully, like the toilets, a new standard rises that is based around how effective something is at it's primary job _first_, with efficiency in other areas then measured after completing the intended task.

detourdog5• 1 year ago

That is where I expect care in product development. A standard is a number to hit and if a manufacturer takes care in their work the consumer should experience no degradation in quality.

leereeves• 1 year ago

Well said.

I have one of those "low-flush" toilets. I have to flush it twice, so I end up using more water than a regular toilet.

nothercastle7• 1 year ago

The appliance industry found a hack to prevent or at least greatly delay consumers rejecting bad products by creating thousands of skus for nearly identical products that made identifying lemons nearly impossible. Similar to how Chinese brands on Amazon have the same name for 100 different nearly identical items.

rubitxxx• 1 year ago

This is the dilemma: some things need regulation, but they need good regulation that evolves over time, and you can’t just throw money at that, you need good leadership to oversee it.

Deleting it is not a solution.

nothercastle7• 1 year ago

Part of it that allowing industries to essentially self regulate means consumer interest are never part of the regulation.

graemep3• 1 year ago

but industry groups didn’t allow that so now it’s going to die and everyone losses.

The fact that "Industry groups" like a regulation is an indication that they have managed to turn it into a means to reduce competition.

rco87865• 1 year ago

This is a great microcosm example of this admin’s whole strategy.

There’s some issues with the current regulations. So instead of doing the work to fix the issues, they just abruptly cancel the entire program.

Baby. Bath water.

nothercastle7• 1 year ago

Canceling is easier than fixing, it may turn out to be easier to rebuild during the next admin than it would have been to fix so that’s one ray of sunshine in an otherwise bleak outcome.

chriskanan• 1 year ago

My dishwasher from the 1990s dried much better than the one I got in 2021, which required rinsing each dish after washing to get rid of the soap taste. It then broke after only 1.5 years. My new one is better, but still leaves dishes pretty wet and I still have to rinse a lot of cups to get rid of the soap residue.

detourdog5• 1 year ago

That is not related to energy star. This is the state of modern products. I have found that the price tier of well performing appliances usually has an above average price.

cromwellian2• 1 year ago

Nothing to do with energy star. Modern Bosch Dishwashers use less water, wash better, and dry better, than your old 1990s washers.

In the same way that people think low-flow toilets are why their sh1t doesn't flush, instead of the proliferation of multi-ply super-thick toilet paper that are almost as bad as paper towels. It doesn't matter how much flow you have, if you flush a wad of cellulose that won't instantly dissolve like single-ply or thin-two-ply, you'll need to break out the augur.

And really, if you don't have a Toto Washlet or Japanese toilet, you're missing out. You barely need any toilet paper at all, and don't walk around with fecal particles wiped against your skin all day.

phendrenad23• 1 year ago

Who cares. Maybe now I can get a washing machine that actually washes my clothes. You'd think at the $1,100 price point, a washing machine should actually work, even with the strict Energy Star standards, but everyone on Reddit suggests switching to a LITERAL commercial washing machine (Speed Queen). Famously-liberal Reddit is suggesting switching to a LOUD, WASTEFUL washing machine because it actually works. I think that says a lot about the current state of things.

WalterGR• 1 year ago

Could you link to that Reddit discussion? I’d like to get a new washer for my mom.

Edit: Probably this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/laundry/comments/1jco8a1/recommenda... . Speed Queen, Whirlpool, LG, and other brands are recommended. Reading the reviews after you’ve purchased something is always painful! Have you heard of Consumer Reports? They at least used to be pretty reliable.

CoastalCoder• 1 year ago

I've used Consumer Reports I'm that past, and found that their ratings poorly matched my experience.

I don't doubt their integrity, but I no longer use them.

phendrenad23• 1 year ago

I spent some time today reading Reddit reviews and complaints about appliances, even the top-tier brands (LG, Samsung) seem to have frequent complaints. I'm also in the market for a new washing machine, so I'll probably just buy one of those and take my chances. Speed Queen is apparently really reliable and efficient, but is probably too loud for me.

lima• 1 year ago

Energy Star is entirely voluntary.

Manufacturers make energy-efficient appliances because consumers prefer them over less efficient appliances, not because the government is forcing them.

briHass• 1 year ago

If that is the case, then there should be no need for Energy Star, because manufacturers already have an incentive to increase efficiency due to customer demand.

I'm highly dubious of the $500b this program has claimed to save consumers. Almost without fail, efficiency improvements in home appliances has greatly increased complexity (less reliable), reduced common components across brands (higher cost to fix), increase purchase price, and compromised actual performance.

LastTrain• 1 year ago

“I’d give up the liberties of some people, not me, for a decent washing machine”.

cdot2• 1 year ago

What liberties are being given up by using a commercial washing machine?

jfengel• 1 year ago

Huh. My clothes always get clean just fine in my middle-of-the-road residential machine.

Maybe the tree huggers at Reddit are spending a lot of time hugging pine trees. Pine sap is hard to get out.

marxisttemp• 1 year ago

you talk a lot in your comments about wanting to avoid politics but almost all of your comments mention politics

singleshot_2• 1 year ago

If you can't find a washer that "actually washes" your clothes today, you probably won't be able to now either. It's not the washer.

(It's probably not your clothes, either).

margalabargala3• 1 year ago

Whose fault is it then, if dirty clothes placed in the washer remain dirty after a "wash" cycle?

dgacmu• 1 year ago

That's weird. My LG front loader has been amazing for 6+ years now. Washes well, super quiet, and energy efficient enough that I ran a load while my house was operating on battery during a 4 day power outage. I would totally buy another one.

astura• 1 year ago

My washing machine works just fine??

djaychela• 1 year ago

Not sure where you are or what washer you own.... But I bought a new Samsung last year and it's excellent. Uses very little energy, quick washes if needed and washes my filthy mechanic work clothes perfectly at low temperatures.

And it cost under £400

kyledrake• 1 year ago

The goal of the program is to reduce the tragedy of the commons that causes the municipal water supply to run out, making it so that nobody's Speed Queen works anymore. Given the contrast, I would prefer a slightly derpy washing machine to no access to running water.

That said, your complaints about HE side loaders are not misplaced, they aren't very good.

tzs• 1 year ago

Most people have no trouble getting clean clothes from any washing machine that gets a high rating at Consumer Reports or Wirecutter.

The main reasons for going with a commercial Speed Queen for people other than the few who can't manage to get consumer washers to clean their clothes are:

• They last a lot longer and are usually easier and/or cheaper to repair if they do break.

• They have more models without internet and apps. A basic commercial model will often be like the washer you might remember your parents had: something with a simple interface that just had a few basic cycles and washed your clothes well for decades. (Their fancier commercial models aimed to bigger laundromats might have internet and cloud based management, which can be very useful commercially for managing a fleet of machines).

tomrod7• 1 year ago

My nibling in needs, have you heard the gospel of Speed Queen?

ginko• 1 year ago

They could adopt the EU energy label instead.

Kapura• 1 year ago

“With this action, EPA is delivering organizational improvements to the personnel structure that will directly benefit the American people and better advance the agency’s core mission, while Powering the Great American Comeback.”

the amount of doublespeak in this administration is unreal. Destruction of public institutions is announced as an improvement. The agency's "core mission" remains unstated so they don't need to square the circle on how destroying consumer info helps improve the environment.

heisenbit• 1 year ago

I wonder whether without this albeit flawed quality indicator we would see competition focused purely on price and margins would shrink.

j45• 1 year ago

Maybe a private non-profit can startup in it's place for the time being.

ChrisArchitect• 1 year ago

Related from earlier in the week:

EPA Plans to Shut Down the Energy Star Program

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43911252

Industry groups are not happy about the imminent demise of Energy Star

Related Stories