Released footage of the police raid on the Kim Dotcom mansion

http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-What-really-happened-in-the-Dotcom-raid/tabid/367/articleID/264651/Default.aspx

by AhtiK • 14 years ago

167 92 14 years ago

3news.co.nz

mtgx3• 14 years ago

What if the guards started shooting at the police for tresspassing if they couldn't identify them in the first second of seeing them? Why did they have to use the helicopter?

jschuur2• 14 years ago

Unless you're a South American drug lord, I don't think that's how security guards work. You don't get to just shoot wildly at anyone approaching, unless you're being shot at.

If Kim had trigger happy guards like that, that alone would seem a little suspicious. Who was he afraid of?

For that matter, this is a pretty paranoid panic button setup:

“I was on my bed, once the banging started, I pressed an alarm button that is situated right at my bed which was installed in case of an emergency. When I press that it automatically sends a signal to all security guards including Mr [Wayne] Tempero’s room including SMSs to everybody informing them there is an alert.

Perhaps that's just standard operating procedure for a multi-millionaire.

Full story in text: http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-What-really-happened-in-the-Dot...

knowtheory• 14 years ago

I mean... is it really that paranoid?

Would it have been much different if instead of a button, it was an intercom system, and Dotcom queried his staff as to what the banging noise was?

In one way it does seem comically super-villain-esque, but then, i wouldn't say that Dotcom's impulses were anything more dramatic than anyone hearing unusual noises in their home. It's just, most of us don't have a staff to query, or a saferoom to evacuate to.

cskau• 14 years ago

> If Kim had trigger happy guards like that, that alone would seem a little suspicious. Who was he afraid of?

Afraid of exactly this scenario where one early morning, heavily armed men were storming his home where his wife and kids were?

I'd have been terrified.

derda• 14 years ago

Alarm-Buttons and panic rooms are not so uncommon and often installed in houses of much-more low-key persons then Kim Schmitz. A family friend purchased a house (not a mansion, just a bigger house in a suburban neighborhood) here in germany that was formally owned by a CEO of a mid-sized tech company. And there is a panic button in every room, as well as a hidden room. Why should such a system be uncommon in, from what I remember, the biggest mansion in NZ? I guess it was already there when he bought the place.

petercooper• 14 years ago

If your wealth is ostentatious and/or you believe you own enough assets to target thieves, I suspect it's not very paranoid at all. For a normal everyday joe, probably.

But while things like this happen, it seems sane if you have the money: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2184641/Waterboarded...

mistermann• 14 years ago

> this is a pretty paranoid panic button setup

It is not terribly uncommon for agents of the US government to forcibly enter homes and kill the residents, often under mistaken circumstances. And as this story shows, their reach is extremely broad.

So, I certainly wouldn't classify it as paranoid, in this day and age it seems like common sense.

mtgx3• 14 years ago

I've just read a story recently about an American shooting a sales agent for "tresspassing"...so yeah.

alan_cx• 14 years ago

This woman might have benefited from such arrangements: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-19160222

Negitivefrags• 14 years ago

Wouldn't happen in NZ.

I'm not even sure the guards would have guns at all. I don't think they would be allowed to have pistols. They might have shotguns I guess.

flog3• 14 years ago

I highly doubt any guard would have raised any opposition, given at least one of them was a serving police officer.

src: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&obj...

Symmetry• 14 years ago

That's a real danger with SWAT raids. IF you've got an already violent subject then making them as confused as possible will tend to make things safer for the SWAT team. But if you're sending a SWAT team in against people who aren't already violent there's a chance the subject will think they're being invaded by criminals and try to fight back. Several SWAT officers die every year because of that. And many more people on the receiving ends of SWAT raids.

So, there's a good reason that the way the police traditionally do things, surround a house and ask the people to come out. The US military actually generally does the same thing with insurgents in Iraq. But no police department wants to be the one that "doesn't even have a SWAT team". And once you have one, you have to use it or else how do you justify it to taxpayers?

knz• 14 years ago

Expat kiwi here. Unless something has changed in the last 5 years - security personal in New Zealand generally don't carry firearms and I don't believe there is a legal justification for lethal force. We don't have anything like the "Castle Law" found in some US States and gun owners rarely use firearms defensively. Also, if people dressed in black and armed with M4's are knocking on your door you can safely assume it's the Police in NZ.

It's hard to understand why they would raid his house like this.

exDM692• 14 years ago

I find it a little scary that Hollywood can order armed men in helicopters to raid a man's home, anywhere in the world.

zeynalov• 14 years ago

No, they can't do that everywhere. For example, in Sweden, China, Iran, France they would not be allowed to do that. It can be only done in anglo-american countries.

joshAg• 14 years ago

the pirate bay might argue with you about sweden.

kokey• 14 years ago

It would have been nice if Hollywood supplied them with a better camera. That said, the footage looks fine for an anti piracy ad, on VHS.

chris_wot4• 14 years ago

Actually, the footage looks great for an anti-copyright advert. "If you are suspected of copyright infringement, we send in police with weapons, in a helicopter".

vasco• 14 years ago

From the outside it kinda looks like New Zealand is just trying to make 'murrica happy on this one, so I'm not sure they would be so lucky elsewhere (ie not the UK/CAN/NZ)

alinajaf• 14 years ago

IIRC Accelerando (linked below) by HNs very own cstross postulated something similar in 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando_(novel)

jarin• 14 years ago

Every time I see things like this, Accelerando is the first thing I think of. Also, if you like that, you'll probably like Life Artificial by David A Eubanks:

http://lifeartificial.com/

AkThhhpppt• 14 years ago

Yeah, but in that case the RIAA/MPAA had sold off the collections rights to organised crime. This is the _cops_.

synth• 14 years ago

  INTERIOR, SOULLESS CORPORATE OFFICE. DUSK.

  A dark, sleek office room, filled with cigar smoke, expensive 
  gadgets and designer furniture. The cigar smoke rises above 
  Hollywood executive GOLDBERG like a whirlwind, framing his 
  grinning face...

  He dials his Blackberry phone to the hum of his $9000 Dell PC,
  while leaning back into his chair a little.

               GOLDBERG
               (on the phone)
         Is this The Agency?

               UNKNOWN OPERATOR (v.o)
               (in a clearly american accent)
         How can I help you, Mister Goldberg?

               GOLDBERG
         I would like to order a raid.

               UNKNOWN OPERATOR (v.o)
         Yes sir, what do you want with it?

               GOLDBERG
         I want a heavily armed para-military squad, 
         carrying the latest gear. I want two helicopters, 
         half a dozen paddy wagons, the whole works.

               UNKNOWN OPERATOR (v.o)
         Would you like dogs with that?

               GOLDBERG
         Yes.

               UNKNOWN OPERATOR (v.o)
         Is the recipient an organization or an individual.

               GOLDBERG
               (smiles)
         Both.

               UNKNOWN OPERATOR (v.o)
         Alright, sir. Must be quite a party you're planning.

               GOLDBERG
               (ecstatically)
         Party? I'm about to destroy democracy as we know it!
         Nobody, henceforth, will ever be able to make 
         millions off of stolen media without repercussions!

               GOLDBERG
               (looking at the viewer ominously)
         Nobody.

redthrowaway5• 14 years ago

So, there's an overblown police operation, using two helicopters, 5 paddy wagons, AR-15s, dogs, and a forceable takedown of a suspect deemed to be "low-risk", to serve an illegal warrant by a unit that NZ Police themselves describe [1] as "[providing] Police with the means of effectively and more safely responding to and resolving situations in which there is an actual or threatened use of firearms or other weapons against members of the public or Police." All of this was done so that K.C "couldn't destroy evidence" that he didn't have access to, in the first place.

Forgive me, but who the hell planned this? It sounds so incredibly American, but I don't see why the NZPD would allow the FBI to dictate tactics like that.

[1] http://www.police.govt.nz/service/aos/

moe• 14 years ago

As we know the entire thing was a staged PR-move, to show them filthy pirates what they're getting themselves into ("We will track you down and get you anywhere!").

The overblown Raid was likely part of the script - or it happened out of anticipatory obedience.

Try to see the positive in it; old money in the media mafia is literally kicking and screaming by now. They're in their death struggle.

After this public humiliation it seems unlikely they will be able to pull similar nonsense at such a scale again. It must have cost them a fortune to pull those strings, and not only are they running out of fortunes, but the involved puppets will probably also ask double next time, due to the now obvious risk that something might fling up and stick to their name.

narag• 14 years ago

After this public humiliation it seems unlikely they will be able to pull similar nonsense at such a scale again.

They've destroyed Megaupload and got away with it. I' not sure I'd call the result "public humiliation", at least not for them.

leke• 14 years ago

I don't agree. A message to those filthy pirates would have been to shoot his kids dead. At least that's what the US does to Islamic clerics with terrorist connections (in this case via a drone strike).

mtgx3• 14 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole operation used a movie director (seeing how it was done on behalf of MPAA) as a "consultant" on how to make the biggest PR impact.

espeed• 14 years ago

Remember, the raid was the day after the SOPA Internet blackout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA).

beedogs2• 14 years ago

The last time an Australasian country stood up for itself and refused to acquiesce to US demands, they overthrew the government.

I think the FBI can do what it wants down these parts.

res0nat0r2• 14 years ago

Ignoring all of the other nonsense comments below which have no relevance besides 'America is bad mmmkay', it was known Dotcom had gun(s) at his house. Also he has been convicted of crimes previously. Not that his hacking crimes make him a hardcore armed felon, but he did have weapons in his house at the time of the raid.

Also the overblown raid? Yeah probably a scare tactic to show him who he is messing with...

redthrowaway5• 14 years ago

>but he did have weapons in his house at the time of the raid.

All of which is taken into account in the risk profile, and he was judged to be of low risk. Besides, who cares if he has legal guns? I have guns, doesn't mean I'm going to shoot someone who comes to serve a warrant.

>probably a scare tactic to show him who he is messing with

It's sad that people (particularly Americans, but also citizens of more brutal regimes) are so used to such tactics by police that they seem normal.

chris_wot4• 14 years ago

They know he had guns but they all went in without any armour. Sure looks like they were anticipating the use of guns!

debacle• 14 years ago

You need to justify those expenses somehow. How can you justify the police helis if you never use them?

rwhitman• 14 years ago

I would take a bet that the FBI just handed New Zealand some warrants, told them what they wanted and paid them a bunch of money for expenditures.

The local PD probably got giddy over the idea that the US was footing the bill to use all their fancy hardware and tactical training so they went all out.

Police love having an excuse to put on the swat team gear and bang on doors, regardless of what country they live.

cheez• 14 years ago

> Police love having an excuse to put on the swat team gear and bang on doors, regardless of what country they live.

Don't underestimate the impact of this simple truth.

noonespecial• 14 years ago

"...but when we got to the Scene of the Crime there was five police officers and three police cars, being the biggest crime of the last fifty years, and everybody wanted to get in the newspaper story about it. And they was using up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hanging around the police officer's station. They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us. Took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to mention the aerial photography."

unknsldr• 14 years ago

This is what the default posture for a domestic raid looks like because the men who trained these troopers were most likely veterans who specialized in urban operations over the last decade of conflict.

The line between military and police is blurred beyond distinction at this point. It is more jurisdictional than much else. As I watched the raid footage it was clear that I was watching a familiar routine. Probably rehearsed several times but not exclusively for this particular raid.

Some argue that conflict is universal and the tactics of SWAT, for example, naturally resemble those of the military. Close quarters battle (CQB) is made up of a dynamic that has few enough variations that a universal approach might make sense. Rather than asking how a Ranger unit should clear a mansion versus how SWAT should do it, the idea seems to have been that there ought not be a difference. This wasn't always the case. To prepare for urban operations in Iraq, many units trained according to police tactics (CQB in particular). There were fatal flaws in the method and it cost lives. Better methods were developed and later became SOPs shared with the police.

There are a handful of contracting outfits that employ recently retired operators from Special Operations to train international elements in tactics. Special Operations operators have experience working in small teams and training other elements. This model is not only effective at lowering costs for Defense, it also resembles the size element a police unit might have at its disposal. Operators with experience working under austere conditions could provide a lot of value to an organization with a comparatively limited budget. The training given to Special Operations is without rival. Being trained by the retired SOF is the next best thing to being trained for SOF.

The NZPD definitely planned the execution around the SOPs. The contingencies their plan prepared for did not seem to be the most likely course of action they expected from Dotcom's two man security element. I felt like they started with a more excessive template and stripped out what they could according to the risk assessment. This is radically different from building the concept of operation from the risk assessment.

For example, consider the M4's used. It was said these were standard issue. These had optics for engaging at a distance between 150 - 300 meters. Each trooper had a 9mm side arm. An MP5 or UMP9 as their primary would make more sense given that it also uses the 9mm. Sure, those are limited in engaging distance targets but what were they expecting? A shootout at the perimeter? Not with a helo infil.

This tactic is called a show of force. It is very consistent with American tactics but not uniquely so. It is exactly what it sounds like- an exhibition. The justification is typically "force protection". A trooper is more valuable than equipment so spare no expense to protect the trooper. That's the line, anyway.

I think the most interesting aspect here is the decision to execute with downgraded armor. The mentality of the operators was that they could make compromises in their defensive load but not their offensive load. But their plan was to breach a huge mansion. They have some idea what's inside but who knows what Dotcom might be doing on the other side of the front door at the moment of breach (or any other door thereafter). These men certainly weren't expecting that he was sitting on the other side with a weapon or they never would have conducted a breach with light armor. The first guy in is guaranteed dead if he isn't wearing a chest plate that can stop 7.62. The chances for the second guy are slim. Their infil was by helo meaning the weight of heavier armor would not matter much. They had to sprint about 100 meters from touchdown to the front door. The light armor is the most damning aspect of the testimony, in my opinion. It is the clearest indication to me that these guys were very confident that they would catch Dotcom sleeping or reading the paper in his underwear. These guys began the mission confident that they could walk right through the front door and scare the piss out of Dotcom. So why not do just that? Why was this level of force the default posture? It only increases the likelihood of unnecessary casualties.

antsam2• 14 years ago

Kim seems a bit douchey at times but all the man power they put into this raid seemed a bit overkill.

CodeCube• 14 years ago

Without commenting on whether Kim is in the right or the wrong ... this whole thing was pretty disgusting. For a case where there are no drugs, no murders, nobody hurt, to storm in with weapons and detain women and children is pretty despicable. Completely unwarranted.

antsam2• 14 years ago

Well, he was really good at "Call of Duty" apparently. Maybe they were concerned about his "mad skillz?"

runn1ng2• 14 years ago

The site is still overloaded, link to the video itself:

http://flash.mediaworks.co.nz/tv3/streams/_definst_/News/201...

edit: OK, it works now, but well, you can have it as mp4 :)

runn1ng2• 14 years ago

Well. To play the devil's advocate - when you listen to what Kim Dotcom says, it sounds like he has hell of a security on his place. In that light, the operation was not that overblown - especially when the officers couldn't know the exact details of his security.

flyinRyan• 14 years ago

He wasn't a drug dealer, he wasn't engaged in human trafficking. No mater what security he had, he didn't have anything that would be worth shooting at a cop over. This operation was beyond idiotic. Hollywood was trying to "make an example" here and it backfired massively.

flog3• 14 years ago

Let's hope they raid the homes of bankers in the same way.

parfe• 14 years ago

The night drop was not as smooth as planned. The 101st missed the drop zone and found themselves scattered over most of the back yard. Small units formed and conducted raids, where possible, taking the shed and guest house, but the primary objective remained unaccomplished.

The transports dropped the first wave within sight of the massive compound but the gate loomed shut. The airdrop obviously failed to open a safe passage.

Multiple twisted ankles resulted in 50% casualties but a squad of men reached the gate. A brave private, barely old enough to shave, rang the buzzer and asked "Hey mate, would you mind opening the gate? We have a warrant."

Truly, New Zealand's greatest generation.

chris_wot4• 14 years ago

Not to mention, it took them 15 minutes to actually find Dotcom.

jrockway• 14 years ago

To play the devil's advocate -- it sounds like he would have surrendered himself to the police if they had just asked.

jonknee• 14 years ago

They could have tried knocking on the door. That's usually what happens in warrants for non-violent crime with a suspect who has no history of violence. This was a copyright case with all the evidence across a huge ocean, no need for a paramilitary operation.

RyanMcGreal• 14 years ago

TV news in New Zealand spent a whole 10 minutes on the same story. That would be an unprecedented level of detail on an American news program.

roc• 14 years ago

*for any news story not involving a pretty young white woman.

taude• 14 years ago

So did they get Bin Laden or what?

lurkersmirker• 14 years ago

a/v 6/5, no sample wtf?

metatronscube• 14 years ago

Was the C-130 Gunship on standby circling overhead or something? Why were so many 'assets' thrown into a raid? Who sanctioned this? I would be looking for resignations and full hearing/inquiries into total miss allocation of resources.

gitarr• 14 years ago

This is a disgrace for New Zealand and as a European this whole ordeal has warned me plenty to not do any business there ever.

The US who were obviously the ones in charge of NZ police and general "law" enforcement are another story. The world police has done their will again. Without thinking, without logic, without sense, but Hollywood money behind them.

anthonyjs• 14 years ago

This is most certainly not normal or accepted in NZ, and in case you missed it, the courts have ruled it was not legal, have asked the US to back up claims, and have not extradited Dotcom.

vosper• 14 years ago

The way this has been handled has been disgraceful, but this is a ridiculous reaction. I am a New Zealander (now in SF) so I'm biased, but New Zealand is a peaceful country [1], frequently rated as one of the least corrupt [2], with excellent freedom of press [3], and is relatively easy place to do business [4].

You could certainly do a lot worse.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index [2] http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/ [3] http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2011-2012,1043.html [4] http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/new-zeala...

wtvanhest2• 14 years ago

The real question is, why release the footage now?

One likely reason is that they are loosing this case in the court of public opinion and this video may have been thought to make him out to look like "the bad guy".

beedogs2• 14 years ago

It's so over-the-top though it seems to have had the opposite effect. The intro to the video indicates the footage came from a source within NZ law enforcement; perhaps he had a change of heart and felt the video needed to be seen.

wtvanhest2• 14 years ago

They may not have understood what effect it would have.

jstalin• 14 years ago

Two helicopters, AR-15s, police vehicles, dogs, ninja-clad police, FLIR, and beating him up all over...... copyright infringement. Does anyone else see a problem here?

TazeTSchnitzel5• 14 years ago

But everyone knows that Time Warner, Disney, 20th Century Fox, are all going bankrupt because of his terrible crime of running a file uploading site!

Wait...

grecy• 14 years ago

I think it shows an interesting trend in our society, maybe something that will become more and more common.

We now value money immensely, and have a lot of laws in place to protect not only the money we have, but the money we're trying to earn (see Apple v Samsung).

Sooner or later, it could plausibly be a more serious offense to steal money, or the means of making money, than murder or child abuse.

adrianbye• 14 years ago

why did kim go to the red room alone, presumably leaving his wife and kids to be handled by the intruders?

TazeTSchnitzel5• 14 years ago

It doesn't sound like they were in the same room as him at the time (it seemed like they were on the other side of the house or something), and given the intruders, I'm not sure what else he could have done.

TazeTSchnitzel5• 14 years ago

Reminds me of this (acted) video, which is currently front-page on the pirate bay: http://www.political-prostitution.com/

dsolomon• 14 years ago

The raid was written by Michael Bay.

clientbiller• 14 years ago

Wonder if the recorded video was saved to megaupload... :)

swang• 14 years ago

He was, "low risk" but the police carried AR-15s and handguns, brought along with 2 helicopter units and apparently copyright infringement sniffing dogs. What a gross waste of police, as well as taxpayer money.

danielschonfeld• 14 years ago

I for one think this whole raid was made so that the media, and people around the world are distracted and ask the wrong questions while the real issue at hand is silently taken care of.

There was probably a file, or a bunch of damaging data to the US government that has found it's way to megaupload.com and had to be eliminated without a trace so that it doesn't resurface at an inconvenient moment.

The raid, the illegal warrants, the choppers and swat teams are all just a big show that will have people talking for years now while the FBI/CIA secretly got what they needed behind the scenes.

Speaking of.... why is the FBI the one giving directions to NZPD... isn't this supposed to be a CIA operation if it's outside US borders?

chris_wot4• 14 years ago

I can't believe they brought assault rifles to a raid for copyright infringement? What next - bazookas for shop lifters?!?!

There was definitely political pressure from someone on this one - and I would definitely point the finger to someone within the United States.

Released footage of the police raid on the Kim Dotcom mansion

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