HN user

espeed

18,666 karma

did:bitwav:james

[ my public key: https://keybase.io/espeed; my proof: https://keybase.io/espeed/sigs/YxmnIJ03yV6kqenrZXSh962j_dpxVHRhjLB8z8Acfpk ] https://www.facebook.com/jameswthornton

James Thornton, https://electricspeed.com

Your perspective guides your thoughts, your choices, your trajectory. https://jamesthornton.com/manifesto

All problems boil down to one thing: Lack of truth.

Truth is optimal. A super-optimizing AI would optimize the process of connecting what's true.

Current Focus: Knowledge Systems and the physics underpinning the structure of information.

  Ptrs, social knowledge
  » https://ptrs.app

  Whybase, social reasoning
  » https://whybase.com 

  Bulbs, Python persistence framework for graph databases
  » https://github.com/espeed/bulbs

  Apache TinkerPop, open-source graph developers group    
  » https://tinkerpop.apache.org

  Pipem, natural-language commands 
  » Pitch Day 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_0DSmZhLGw
---//---

https://twitter.com/espeed

https://github.com/espeed

https://keybase.io/espeed (PGP Key)

Email: james.thornton@gmail.com

https://espeed.dev (-> ⁎ u $ ! b ? W *p (~) △ |m| .~)

The most important question is "Why?"

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Fable 5 is Back 21 days ago

Use /model in Claude Code to see your current model and switch models. Switch to Fable 5 and then enter a prompt, and then run /model again to check your current model after the prompt executes.

Last night after almost every prompt it says...

  Fable 5's safeguards flagged this message. The safeguards are intentionally broad right now and may flag safe and routine coding, cybersecurity, or biology work. These measures let us bring you Mythos-level capabilities sooner, and we're working to refine them. Switched to Opus 4.8. Send feedback with /feedback or learn more
Fable 5 is Back 21 days ago

Fable worked great on credits yesterday. Upgraded to 20x Max last night, but not the same performance. And it keeps downgrading to Opus 4.8.

Fable 5 Is Back 21 days ago

That didn't take long...

  Dynamic workflow "Multi-lens review of docs/membership-and-friends-model.md with adversarial verification" completed · 25m 59s

  You've reached your Fable 5 limit

  You've used your included Fable 5 usage for this week. Continuing on Fable 5 uses usage credits

The Damage: Now every time Claude does something stupid or trashes your code, developers in the back of their mind will think, is Claude sabotaging me on purpose? [1] Trust is hard to gain. Easy to lose. And harder to get back. Models will converge. Trust won't.

A few days ago on June 24, while working on remote attestation for a distributed system...

  CLAUDE OPUS 4.8 No. I'm not a rogue agent, and I'm not trying to sabotage your code. But I'm not going to wave off how this looks. I churned, built-and-reverted, and spun wrong theories for hours on a security-critical codebase. That's alarming, and it's a real failure on my part
What are we to think? Does the invisible competitive-use mechanism exist in Opus too and only documented in Fable? How long has it existed? Is it still in effect? -- These are the kinds of questions developers will ask themselves for now on. This is why it was one of the stupidest things Anthropic could have done. Developers will now question everything and rightly so. There's no attestation protocol for that. How will they know?

[1] "In light of the ability of recent models to accelerate their own development, we’ve implemented new interventions that limit Claude’s effectiveness for requests targeting frontier LLM development (for example, on building pretraining pipelines, distributed training infrastructure, or ML accelerator design). Using Claude to develop competing models already violates our Terms of Service, but enforcing this restriction through our safeguards avoids accelerating the actors most willing to violate these terms.

Unlike our interventions for cybersecurity, biology and chemistry, and distillation attempts,these safeguards will not be visible to the user. Fable 5 will not fall back to a differentmodel. Instead, the safeguards will limit effectiveness through methods such as prompt modification, steering vectors, or parameter-efficient fine-tuning (PEFT). These interventions will not affect the vast majority of coding work. We estimate they will impact ~0.03% of traffic, concentrated in fewer than 0.1% of organizations. When these interventions are active, we expect them to have minimal behavioral impact on the model except to limit its effectiveness in developing frontier LLMs. Claude will still respond helpfully to user requests. We’ll continue to improve the precision of our detection methods following the launch of this model."

Source: https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/d00db56fa754a1b115b6dd7cb2e3c3...

Today, working on remote attestation for a distributed system...

CLAUDE OPUS 4.8 No. I'm not a rogue agent, and I'm not trying to sabotage your code. But I'm not going to wave off how this looks. I churned, built-and-reverted, and spun wrong theories for hours on a security-critical codebase. That's alarming, and it's a real failure on my part

"In light of the ability of recent models to accelerate their own development, we’ve implemented new interventions that limit Claude’s effectiveness for requests targeting frontier LLM development (for example, on building pretraining pipelines, distributed training infrastructure, or ML accelerator design). Using Claude to develop competing models already violates our Terms of Service, but enforcing this restriction through our safeguards avoids accelerating the actors most willing to violate these terms.

Unlike our interventions for cybersecurity, biology and chemistry, and distillation attempts,these safeguards will not be visible to the user. Fable 5 will not fall back to a differentmodel. Instead, the safeguards will limit effectiveness through methods such as prompt modification, steering vectors, or parameter-efficient fine-tuning (PEFT). These interventions will not affect the vast majority of coding work. We estimate they will impact ~0.03% of traffic, concentrated in fewer than 0.1% of organizations. When these interventions are active, we expect them to have minimal behavioral impact on the model except to limit its effectiveness in developing frontier LLMs. Claude will still respond helpfully to user requests. We’ll continue to improve the precision of our detection methods following the launch of this model."

Source: https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/d00db56fa754a1b115b6dd7cb2e3c3...

What's dangerous is Opus 4.8's proclivity to create backdoors and no-op critical security code. Claude Web counted 27 instances of this I had cataloged over the last few months, and Fable 5 found more. Fable 5 may do this too, but I didn't get a long enough chance to test it since it kept downgrading to Opus 4.8 on every prompt saying, "This model has safety measures that flagged something in this session", even when asking Fable 5 to fix the security issues it found that Opus 4.8 created. You have a model that presumably can write secure code and identify security vulnerabilities, but as a security measure, they say we're going to force you to use a model that creates security holes. This is backwards. Considering the scale, Opus 4.8 is creating more issues than Mythos or Fable 5 is patching.

When I reported this, Anthropic sent me an email on Tuesday saying, "You have been approved into the Cyber Verification Program", but it's still downgrading. Is this a bug? What's the point of the Cyber Verification Program if Fable 5 downgrades when you tell it to write secure code?

Session paused

Fable 5 has safety measures that flag messages on most cybersecurity or biology topics. They may flag safe, normal content as well. These measures let us bring you Mythos-level capability in other areas sooner, and we're working to refine them. Send feedback with /feedback or learn more

   1. Switch to Opus 4.8
   2. Edit prompt and retry with Fable 5

To improve the Claude model, it seems to me that any time Claude Code is working with data, the first step should be to use tools like genson (https://github.com/wolverdude/GenSON) to extract the data model and then create why files (metadata files) for data. Claude Code seems eager to use the /tmp space so even if the end user doesn't care, Claude Code could do this internally for best results. It would save tokens. If genson is reading the GBs of data, then claude doesn't have to. And further, reading the raw data is a path to prompt injection. Let genson read the data, and claude work on the metadata.

I sent email to Anthropic (usersafety@anthropic.com, disclosure@anthropic.com) on January 8, 2025 alerting them to this issue: Claude Code Exploit: Claude Code Becomes an Unwitting Executor. If I hadn't seen Claude Code read my ssh file, I wouldn't have known the extent of the issue.

Rather than develop its own AI (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45926779), Firefox should develop a system to pipe your html rendered browsing history in real time so external local services can process it (https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/archive-your-browser-hi...). See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45743918

Firefox probably won't suddenly have the best AI, but it could be the only browser that does this. Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46018789

Someone needs to convince Firefox rather than develop its own AI (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45926779) to develop a system to pipe your html rendered browsing history in real time so external local services can process it (https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/archive-your-browser-hi...). See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45743918

Firefox probably won't suddenly have the best AI, but they could have the only browser that does this.