Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

https://www.theverge.com/news/638967/microsoft-windows-11-account-internet-bypass-blocked

by nickthegreek • 1 year ago

197 203 1 year ago

theverge.com

ranger_danger• 1 year ago

Anyone know if this comment on the article is actually true?

- Select Organization

- Select Sign In Options

- Choose Domain Join

- Create a username and leave the password blank.

- You'll be logged into Windows without a Microsoft account!

jwoglom2• 1 year ago

This apparently works on Pro versions of Windows, but not the Home versions which don't support domain-join.

tjohns• 1 year ago

Yes, that's how I do it. Only available on the Pro version of Windows though.

jwoglom2• 1 year ago

We’re removing the bypassnro.cmd script from the build to enhance security and user experience of Windows 11. This change ensures that all users exit setup with internet connectivity and a Microsoft Account.

"enhancing security and user experience" -- what a ridiculous, bold-faced lie. Bravo Microsoft.

colordrops3• 1 year ago

It's standard practice for corporations to lie about their motivations for decisions. Why is this acceptable?

bigstrat20035• 1 year ago

It's not. But not all unacceptable things are illegal. And just as immoral people will do legal-but immoral things, immoral corporations will do the same.

sunshowers• 1 year ago

It is standard practice to stretch the truth to a breaking point. In this case, Microsoft could argue that a connected account leads to a better experience. It also (more tenuously) argue that it leads to better security, in terms of protection against ransomware via OneDrive backups.

I hate this practice.

AlecSchueler• 1 year ago

The only way to limit it would be with regulations and regulations are a bit taboo.

anal_reactor5• 1 year ago

Because it's how the entire society functions. There's an entire class of lies that are not only accepted, but actually expected. Case in point: imagine saying "Hi, how are you?" and someone replying "I hate living like this".

p0w3n3d• 1 year ago

Can't it be added again by users? Cmd does not sound like a complicated piece of binary code

vbezhenar• 1 year ago

This script just added single key to the registry and rebooted the machine (restarting the installer). The underlying functionality which allowed to use local user, if registry key was present, was coded into the installer itself.

So if they just removed that 2-line bat file, it's not a big problem. You still can add that entry to the registry, just with more complicated command.

Here's its code:

    @echo off
    reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\OOBE /v BypassNRO /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f
    shutdown /r /t 0

glenstein7• 1 year ago

Well, it's bald-faced lie but I wouldn't disagree that it's bold.

The idea that you need to confirm you're connected to the internet and that creating a Microsoft account is merely for that purpose is preposterous on its face.

Not that I was ever a regular on windows, but I think I've at least found there to be a necessity to be on windows for certain desirable games or for PC apps. So I've always kind of recognized a necessity, but I do think I can't imagine myself ever intentionally signing up for this. The Linux-based gaming experience is now so advanced, and there's nothing I truly need on Windows. I know it's a cliche indulge in a kind of performative version of a goodbye cruel world post so I don't want to go that far, because I think I would considered the contract to have been broken a while ago, but I don't think I have ever considered myself forever away from Windows, perhaps until just now.

WD-427• 1 year ago

I'm with you. The very few games I play work great on Linux. As a professional dev, there's absolutely no reason to choose Windows (or any OS, for that matter) over Desktop Linux at this point.

I'm convinced Windows is mainly for people that buy computers at Best Buy and corporate IT that are unfortunately funneled into the ecosystem (hats off salute to all you).

soraminazuki2• 1 year ago

Yeah, not only are they lying about their intentions, but they are also absurdly wrong from a technical standpoint too. How in the world can an online account provide more security than a local one? Online has way, way much more attack surface. It's not even close.

Online is more about convenience than security. Though with Windows, it looks more like convenience for M$ and not for its users.

dhx• 1 year ago

Windows 11 24H2 enabled BitLocker full disk encryption by default for all new installations (including OEM) after a user has logged in with a Microsoft Account.[1] By default the BitLocker "recovery key" (everything one needs to decrypt a BitLocker device) is surrendered to Microsoft (uploaded automatically for storage with the associated Microsoft Account). This situation is similar to the Clipper chip[2] or Ki key programmed into mobile phone SIM cards during manufacture[3] where a user does not control the key for its full lifetime and has little to no assurance of who else may have a copy of the key.

Recall when Microsoft lost control of a Microsoft Account OpenID token signing key a year and a half ago?[4] I can't find a reference to confirm if attackers could have obtained BitLocker recovery keys by logging into any Microsoft Accounts with an OpenID token signed with the compromised key, but a reasonable assumption would surely lean towards "almost certainly". After this attack, Microsoft still had not conclusively determined 10 months later how the key was compromised, and no further news appears to be published since then.[5]

[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip#Key_escrow

[3] https://nickvsnetworking.com/transport-keys-a4-k4-keys-in-ep...

[4] https://msrc.microsoft.com/blog/2023/09/results-of-major-tec...

[5] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsoft-sti...

ivanjermakov• 1 year ago

After rolling the update that unintentionally uninstalled Copilot, they're back at net negative "upgrades".

mholt• 1 year ago

How can you set up / use Windows without an Internet connection? Surely that's not an unsupported use case anymore, is it? There's gotta be plenty of places where Internet connectivity is not available or is restricted.

MarcelOlsz• 1 year ago

All of those people are still happily running XP.

sidewndr462• 1 year ago

You joke, I get pretty frequent requests from customers to validate that a product is compatible with Microsoft Windows Server 2003. That's basically the server version of XP

woleium• 1 year ago

enterprise deployments are different

beefnugs• 1 year ago

last i tried was only months ago, there is still a fallthrough, if you go back and forth enough times about not connecting or creating an account it just lets you through, perhaps had you unplug ethernet as well

int_19h3• 1 year ago

It has been unsupported since the last major Win11 update.

wtallis• 1 year ago

It has been "unsupported" in the sense of "Microsoft doesn't approve of that behavior and won't help you accomplish that goal" since before Windows 11. It is not yet "unsupported" in the sense of "Microsoft has made it entirely impossible"; every year or two they make it incrementally harder, but they have yet to close off all of the workarounds, and even this change may still leave a workaround.

lousken• 1 year ago

Enhanced security, if you connect your device to the internet. Can they at least stop bullshitting? It's shameful

caseyy2• 1 year ago

Microsoft is really degrading themselves over the 0.1% of users that opted out (and however much money they didn’t manipulate out of them because of that).

I’m really surprised how humiliatingly their top managers act. Surely someone who lies like this has no concern for self respect or pride.

Krasnol2• 1 year ago

The sad thing is that they're being respected for that in their circles. There is no need for shame. They're proud of themselves. They don't talk to people who feel the cringe, and I guess them subconsciously knowing is a reason why they don't talk to people further below them.

Of course, those most successful are just numb due to specific psychological deviations from the academic norm.

wmf2• 1 year ago

Security updates do come from the Internet.

dmitrygr• 1 year ago

But so do security threats.

sokoloff• 1 year ago

Aren’t those needed overwhelmingly as a result of being connected to the internet?

LinuxBender• 1 year ago

Is this loophole the method used by Rufus when burning images that add options to skip Microsoft account, TPM checks, etc...?

qwerpy2• 1 year ago

What is MS's motivation to push so strongly to have everyone on a Microsoft account? I really hope it's not primarily so that they can more effectively target your computer for ads. Or upsell some service subscriptions.

TechDebtDevin• 1 year ago

I have some bad news for you.

proc0• 1 year ago

Bad leadership/ direction of product. These decisions are bad in the long term as people find alternatives. Windows will just be used by large non-tech orgs that need excel and are locked in that ecosystem. Then there is the gaming crowd and I think Steam is in a unique position to do something here. Everything points to Windows 11 being the last Windows, but not for the reasons MS intended.

inetknght3• 1 year ago

I really hope it's not primarily so that they can more effectively target your computer for ads. Or upsell some service subscriptions.

I hope you're not that naive.

Alas, smart people have been shining a light on Microsoft's path for over a decade.

qwerpy2• 1 year ago

I suspected it was that which is why I spelled it out, but wanted to see if anyone had a more charitable explanation for it.

michaelt2• 1 year ago

It's so they can:

1. More effectively target you for ads

2. Upsell cloud service subscriptions

3. Cross-promote other Microsoft services, your windows account means you already have an xbox/skype/minecraft/whatever account.

4. Provide extra features, like syncing your tabs between devices and backing up your passkeys to the cloud.

5. More closely emulate Android and iOS, major and successful rivals of Windows.

6. Keep track of software licenses and suchlike. Ideally through an app store where they get a 30% cut of every purchase.

7. Avoid having their cash-cow products like MS Office out-competed by collaborative, cloud-based new entrants.

transcriptase4• 1 year ago

In other words some upper management cunt has a PowerBI KPI card that shows the % of windows installs where a MS account is being used, and since it’s not at 100% they’re putting pressure on everyone under them in the org to force everyone into the fold.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK4• 1 year ago

Every Android user has a google (or huawei) account. Androids sell better than Windows. So the thinking is, people love accounts.

downrightmike• 1 year ago

They are just determined to lose all retail users

486sx33• 1 year ago

Somewhat related and mentioned in the article. New to me. https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/11/23913107/microsoft-windo...

diego_sandoval• 1 year ago

What are you supposed to do if you have no Internet connectivity? You basically have a brick on your hands until you can connect it to the Internet? That's ridiculous.

michaelt2• 1 year ago

Well you see, contrary to the rampant speculation you get on sites like HN, when we deployed a telemetry update to report on how many of our users have no internet connectivity, the data showed 100% of respondents had internet connectivity.

/s obviously

gambiting2• 1 year ago

I mean, Xbox has been like this for a long time and clearly it's not dettering sales at all - and even with Windows the functionality to skip it has been well hidden and required bringing up windows console and typing in a command that rebooted the installer - hardly something that your average person would do I guess. So yeah, it's ridiculous, but Microsoft knows it will make zero difference to sales.

anigbrowl• 1 year ago

I own an xbox (which I received as a gift) and absolutely hate having to log into it any time I want to use it. MY 15 year old PS3 still delivers a far more pleasant user experience.

shostack• 1 year ago

You make them less money if you are not online so why should they care?

DecentShoes• 1 year ago

The best marketing campaign for Linux, is Windows 11.

OsrsNeedsf2P• 1 year ago

This has been true every major Windows release.

falcor84• 1 year ago

Well, sales-wise it seems to mostly be driving people towards macbooks, but yes, also linux.

hippich• 1 year ago

Can you fully use MacBook (install apps, updates) without online account?

transcriptase4• 1 year ago

The best marketing campaign for Windows is finally deciding on a distro only to be presented with a bunch of bullshit options (gnome, cinnamon, xfe, kde, mate, etc) the average person is expected to somehow understand the difference between or care about if they did. And no, someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing is not going to feel comfortable picking at random.

Then the 95% odds that trying to dual boot without the correct incantations fucks up being able to boot into Windows, which somehow after 20 years still hasn’t been fixed.

And I say this as someone who’s been using it personally and professionally for 20 years. The year of the Linux desktop will come when people are met where they are, not where you want them to be. If the simplest standard things require sifting through forum posts from 2006 for hours on end, you’ve already lost.

zozbot2344• 1 year ago

Then the 95% odds that trying to dual boot without the correct incantations fucks up being able to boot into Windows

This is fixed now with most desktop systems using UEFI. The bootloader will always show a "UEFI setup" option, and that in turn lets you pick alternate boot choices.

bee_rider2• 1 year ago

Surely after 20 years you’ve given up on the year of Linux on the desktop.

I’ve only used it for ~15 years but long ago came to the conclusion that I really don’t care about broader adoption. Why should I? It is good if people find their way to Linux. But it isn’t a product, they can come to it and accept it as it is, or fix it for themselves. But there’s no real benefit to increasing marketshare for its own sake.

MattPalmer10862• 1 year ago

I'm amazed at your experience, not sure what distros you've been using.

I've been using Linux for over 20 years. Can't remember when I had to do anything other than choose my keyboard layout, region and enter the WiFi password. 20 mins later, all installed and working.

Dual boot I agree can be awful, because for me, Windows has hosed the other operating system more than once on some update. Can't put them on the same disk together safely, but seems OK so far on separate disks.

cozzyd2• 1 year ago

The solution to dual boot is easy.... Nuke windows.

SunlitCat• 1 year ago

Well my Linux journey was even more adventurous then this.

First time I tried Linux was around late 90s. The included driver for my ati on board gpu did create some artifacts and it was suggested to use the default svga one.

The second time was in the early 2000s. There I was playing around with wine until it crashed one day and wiped my whole hard drive (sadly this was before I had a cd writing device, so lots of data gone :().

The third time, I can't really remember, but I wasn't really amazed (must be late 2000s).

The fourth time (must be around 2010-ish, I dunno), I finally made it for a few years after getting a 64 bit computer with more then 4 GB of RAM. Was using Windows XP (32 bit) and decided that instead of using Windows 7, I might try Ubuntu. Worked well, until it didn't. For some reason, Linux was having problems with the chipset on my mainboard (a nvidia one) and the dvd drive wasn't working. There were regular patches for the kernel (which didn't get included in the kernel for some reason, so I had to compile my own kernel). When that stopped working, I put my dvd drive into a Windows machine and it started working again (even on the linux machine) until it stopped working again.

That was when I switched to Windows 7 (64 bit) and I am now on Windows 10, sadly with a HTC Vive Pro 2 headset which seems to be unsupported on Linux. :(

NotYourLawyer• 1 year ago

Windows 7 was legitimately pretty good. It’s been downhill ever since.

bee_rider2• 1 year ago

10 was basically fine as a glorified gaming console as well.

I don’t know how people use it for, like, work stuff or whatever.

tapoxi• 1 year ago

I have a recent (2024) Gigabyte AMD motherboard and Windows 11 refuses to recognize the Ethernet NIC or onboard wifi. I can't load the drivers during setup either because they're .exe installers and it wants .inf files or something.

I got mad and installed Fedora Kinoite, which somehow just worked out of the box. My games all worked too.

I've been mulling over installing a Windows partition for the inevitable game with anti-cheat I'd like to play (Battlefield) but insanely hostile shit like this has made me reconsider.

crimsontech• 1 year ago

I've mostly dropped it, I have a couple of windows machines for dev stuff but I really don't enjoy using the OS, each time I log in there is a new annoyance.

If I got to a point where I couldn't use it without a Microsoft account I would just drop it entirely.

cosmic_cheese• 1 year ago

At this point it’s mainly my Quest 2 that’s keeping me from keeping my tower booted into Linux most of the time.

a2128• 1 year ago

You can use ALVR to stream SteamVR games to your Quest 2. Some people use another app called Envision. There's a bunch of information here https://lvra.gitlab.io/

theandrewbailey• 1 year ago

I had been mulling it for a while, but with (the last version of[0]) Windows 10 support ending, and Windows 11 looking like a dumpster fire, I bit the bullet and went Linux on my main desktop, reformatting over the last Windows install in my house. It's been a remarkably smooth transition for me.

At nearly the same time, I re-flashed my phone with LineageOS, but without Google apps. I finally completed my transition away from Google that started with Snowden's leaks, only coincidentally did the same to Microsoft at the same time.

[0] https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-ve...

4oo4• 1 year ago

Have you tried opening the .exe with 7-zip to see if there are .inf (and I believe .sys files that go with) that you can extract?

zamalek2• 1 year ago

Battlefield 1 (I think) worked roughly two years ago, which is when I last played it. I think it was Lutris is that got it rolling for me. Not to mention the usual SDL_VIDEODRIVER=windows,x11 that us required for most anticheats. Give it a try IMO.

I check ProtonDB support prior to purchasing games, and I very rarely have to ignore a game.

Edit: just checked and, wow, Linux support has been explicitly disabled.

kcb• 1 year ago

Fairly recently they rolled out "proper" anticheat to BF 1 and V. Sucks that they don't support linux anymore but the games were also pretty unplayable with the overrun of hackers previously.

MrMcCall• 1 year ago

I've been skipping dealing with a MS id every day for coming up on seven years now :-) and I had been (ab)using OpenBSD for a few years before that, so it's been a nice long hiatus.

I do, however, miss the early F# on WinXpPro64, having bought the Pro install version a million years ago for a clean install, using it for quite a few years on an early q6600, I'd love to be able to fire up one of my boot disk images into a no-network VM subnet from those years, maybe even creating network drives to connect and disconnect to in order to migrate files to and from. It was fully registered and current, with up-to-date service packs and everything, and quite a bit of nice MS dev software as well, and nicely stripped down by cannonballing down into the registry morass and tweaking as many sections as possible over the years.

Any clues on which modern 64bit linux or BSD would allow it to boot and run and as a functioning MS instance to run old-school commandline F# fsi.exe, including the recompiled one I made a tiny prompt change to? [That was some high-nerd-reward spelunking that I never really took advantage of.]

Maybe QEMU?

I loved the commandline interactivity; I had built up quite a suite of code to do some slick processing using F#'s mind-blowing pipe operator.

Anyway, AtDhVaAnNkCsE, and Happy Friday, all.

transcriptase4• 1 year ago

Since there’s a good chance someone involved will read this, I mean this in the most sincere way possible and I hope you take it to heart:

Just fuck off.

bigstrat20035• 1 year ago

Unfortunately, the people who made the decision almost certainly won't read this. At best, it'll be seen by some developers who were opposed to this, fought against it, and got overruled by management. I have no doubt that the tech guys at Microsoft hate this stuff just as much as the users do.

MarkusWandel3• 1 year ago

Last time I activated a Windows 11 system, I had already entered my Wifi credentials, and then couldn't find any way out of the online account trap. Eventually backed out far enough, deleted my wifi credentials again, forward again and created a local account. Have they closed that loophole too, i.e you can't activate it at all without cloud connectivity?

Another question, once you've activated it with an online account, is it possile to then create another local user and simply use that?

mapcars• 1 year ago

I think its enough to disconnect your wifi/router and installer will give you an option to proceed without internet.

Spivak• 1 year ago

Unless something changed really recently that loophole has been fixed for a minute. I had to use the bypassnro because being off wi-fi wasn't enough.

gambiting2• 1 year ago

That's been closed for a while now. Now(and even before this most recent update) even if you don't have any network devices present on your machine at all it still doesn't show any option to create an offline account - you just can't do it until you find a way to connect to the internet.

> is it possile to then create another local user and simply use that?

Yes, that is absolutely an option. Just remember that by default your hard drive is encrypted with bitlocker and Windows sends the encryption key to microsoft to that account you signed in with without asking you first.

lofaszvanitt• 1 year ago

How come the EU do not kick MS back into the stone age for shenanigans like these?

Does using a yubikey instead of a password works in that heap of shitpile? Or we need to wait for that another 10+ years?

MarkusWandel3• 1 year ago

Oh, another M$ account creation trick. When they discontinued Skype they said you could just log into Teams with your Skype credentials. Not so! That just forces you to enter an email address (that's not already associated with a M$ account) and guess what.. now you have ANOTHER M$ account. After this the Skype credentials are invalidated.

eska2• 1 year ago

Nvidia does the same thing for their geforce experience tool. For a tool that shouldn’t require an account. Bait and switch.

droopyEyelids• 1 year ago

Heres a little life saver that fit my use case.

https://github.com/ElPumpo/TinyNvidiaUpdateChecker

yett• 1 year ago

Not anymore. They have a new Nvidia App that doesn't require you to login.

MarkusWandel3• 1 year ago

Heh, except they weren't (they said they would be). I can now log into M$ with both my old Skype userid and with the email address it made me enter. Not quite clear on whether this is two accounts or just aliases for one.

fumufumufumu• 1 year ago

Aren't they just following Apple? Technically you can use an iPhone and Mac without an Apple (iCloud) account but it's pretty dang unsupported except for corp devices. If I recall correctly you can't install anything from the app store on an Mac/iPhone without an Apple account. On Mac you can run other stuff without an account. You can't on iPhone. You'd need XCode, XCode you can only get from the App Store or possibly from the developer site, Both the App store and the developer site require an account.

I'm not saying it's good, but I'd be curious how many non-corp users are using a Mac without an Apple account.

My current Windows box, Windows 11 Pro (forgot the version names). I setup an account registered with MS to get it installed. Then set up a separate user account, not registered with MS. I use that 2nd account for everything. I haven't logged into the first account in years.

zozbot2344• 1 year ago

Technically you can use an iPhone and Mac without an Apple (iCloud) account but it's pretty dang unsupported

That was the status quo on Windows Home. But there's a big difference between "pretty darn unsupported, expect random breakage in things like the M$ Store" and "we'll stop allowing you to do it at all".

ucosty• 1 year ago

If you don't use the app store, you can still install the xcode command line tools with the xcode-select command. I didn't bother signing in with an Apple account on my personal Mac.

Hojojo• 1 year ago

I've used my MacBook without an Apple ID for years and it works fine. When you install a fresh copy of MacOS, they don't force you into bullshit hoops like having to disconnect your WiFi or running some bat script just to get the option for a local account back. No, it just asks for a login and provides a button to skip it. You knows the exact same thing Windows used to do, but doesn't anymore.

I'm not sure what you mean by pretty dang unsupported. Everything I use the MacBook for as a software developer works great, no Apple account needed.

Aaron2222• 1 year ago

Agree. The only thing you need one for is the Mac App Store, but most software is either not on there to begin with or is also available directly from the developer's website (other than Safari extensions, which are mostly Mac App Store only). But not only does Apple not force you to sign in with an Apple ID, if you do it doesn't take over your account (i.e. Windows makes your email address your username and you sign in to Windows with your Microsoft account password). Allowing password reset with your Apple ID and uploading your FileVault key to iCloud are both optional (and they ask you instead of it being opt-out). And you can also choose to sign into just Apple Media Services (App Store, iTunes, etc), leaving iCloud signed out (or you can use different accounts for each).

saturn8601• 1 year ago

When you set up a new mac or install a fresh copy it asks you to sign in/create an account once, you click no and it never asks you again.

It then asks you if you want to enable siri, you press no and you never see it again.

If I recall correctly you can't install anything from the app store on an Mac/iPhone without an Apple account.

You can download Xcode using their site instead of the App store, but you still have to login to download the file. I guess there isn't anything preventing you from running the installer downloaded from another user's computer. Still as a developer you can install the command line tools through the terminal and then code in non apple languages without the app store.

I'd argue most users install standard applications (since this is a computer and not an idevice) which provides you a clear path to using the computer without ever having to make an account.

That does not answer your question, but i'd push back and say that Apple accounts dont really intrude on the user like Microsoft accounts do. You dont need to use it to login, you don't ever see it other than the app store or the setting menu, you can disable icloud and not even use that. Most importantly though like I mentioned there is still a path to avoiding it completely.

This is night and day difference from Windows where this entire thread is full of all the tricks Microsoft plays and really, people here are justifying registry hacks as if thats normal. Its not.

Mac is slowly probably following Microsoft, not the other way around. If Mac sinks into the nonsense that is Windows I'll have to go back to Linux (and eternally hate my life forever maybe after ~30 years of my life revolving around computing, I will rather give up computing than go back to Linux).

rvba2• 1 year ago

Windows 11 taskbar has space... for 11 icons when run on a laptop screen.

This is killing my (and maaaany others) productivity since in some jobs you constantly need to switch between multiple windows.

Yea, extrnal programs exist, but they can br buggy, cost extra money on top... and good luck installing them on a coporate computer.

Ive seen like 20-30 people with the same problem: taskbar being useless. Windows 11 is bad at switching windows.

The taskbar cant even highlight the active window since everything is "graphically flat" too

MiguelX413• 1 year ago

That's what alt+tab is for

rvba2• 1 year ago

When you need to move between windows all the time it isnt.

Also that stuff worked correctly in windows 10 (and 7 and XP...) and was just removed.

Why? To cut costs? It kills corporate productivity...

3np• 1 year ago

And yet you're on Windows. Switch. Windows will get worse before it can get better. Try KDE on Fedora, for example.

Numerlor4• 1 year ago

I'd use multiple desktops if you have that many windows open. For the highlight it should have a different color?

gavinhoward3• 1 year ago

So I have Windows 10, and I was not looking forward to the "upgrade" to 11 at 10's EOL because of the TPM requirement.

With this change, I have decided to accept the insecurity of not updating and stick with 10. The only thing I do on Windows is ensure my FOSS is cross-platform.

WD-427• 1 year ago

Have you tried using a VM? That's what I do when I want to test cross platform. The benefit being you can just re-create it whenever it starts to harass you about license keys or whatever.

gavinhoward3• 1 year ago

I bought this Windows 10 key long ago, so no license key harassment.

inetknght3• 1 year ago

I have Windows 10, and I was not looking forward to the "upgrade" to 11 at 10's EOL because of ...

I refused to "upgrade" past Windows 7.

When Windows 7 went EOL, I installed Linux. I've never looked back.

gavinhoward3• 1 year ago

Oh, Linux is my daily driver. Gentoo, so I am no Linux noob.

I just use Windows to build and test my FOSS on it.

bigstrat20035• 1 year ago

That's where I'm at. Even before this, I refused to install Windows 11. I daily drive Linux, and I only boot into Windows on occasion when there are games that I can't get to work with Proton. When Windows 10 goes EOL, I will just run it unpatched for those occasional uses. When Steam stops supporting it, I will stop using Windows altogether.

I must say it's quite refreshing to not have to deal with Microsoft's user-hostile nonsense. No shenanigans with required accounts, no ads, no preinstalled bloatware. My OS is made to serve me and my needs, not to eke out extra profits. Ironic that the free option is better at serving me than the paid option, these days.

The sad part is, I like Windows. Or at least I used to. I've never been a "Windoze sucks, I hate M$" guy. Time was that it was genuinely a well made operating system that did its job well and got out of the way. But those days are long since gone. I hope that someday Microsoft gets their act together and starts caring about making a quality product again.

inatreecrown22• 1 year ago

Why do this? It was already a loophole that most users would never know of or care about using, but it is essential for a small core user base that cares about how they set up their systems. This cannot be a good business decision.

CatWChainsaw2• 1 year ago

Addressed in another comment: close all loopholes, then make using your computer a subscription service. It's a great business decision. It's a horrendous decision in all other respects.

inatreecrown22• 1 year ago

Windows as a service? Sounds frightening but surely it must be the way they are headed. Glad we have wine.

zb3• 1 year ago

We’re removing the bypassnro.cmd script from the build to enhance security and user experience

I completely agree with this. By making Windows insufferable you're enhancing security and user experience by making users switch to Linux, which is superior in that regard. Well done, Microsoft.

edgarvaldes• 1 year ago

I actively avoid using a MS account on my local Windows machines. Until last week when I logged into Teams and Windows activated that account as the Windows account on the next boot. The problem is: I was using my wife's laptop. I dunno how to remove the account without creating more problems.

zozbot2344• 1 year ago

Do you have a "switch to local account" option in Windows's accounts settings screen? That would be the cleanest option if available.

orev• 1 year ago

This is one of the most insidious parts of the Microsoft Account. Windows and other apps (from Microsoft) are littered with booby traps where if you sign in on one of them, it’s irrevocable and automatically attaches the account to all the other apps and Windows. You can’t feel safe anymore because there are land mines all over the place.

WD-427• 1 year ago

Windows set up is actually insane, I did it in a VM recently to test my app on Windows. I would say not only does it require a Microsoft account but you also have to agree to (at least) 3 EULAs about sharing/selling your data that are unskippable. Pretty sure it also makes you set your ad preferences.

Absolutely insane for an OS, I don't know how people put up with it as a daily driver.

BandButcher• 1 year ago

Luckily I use my phone for most tasks and can avoid my two remaining windows machines unless necessary.

Also I doubt it's just me but every other day when Windows forces an update "restart and update/shutdown and update", upon restarting I am again prompted by Microsofts dark patterns for all the telemetry, defaulted to ON (location, biometrics, etc).

Literally every second update windows wants to re ask me and I have to either select "skip for 3 days" (comical) or walk through each step and toggle each one off...

Unfortunately Microsoft no longer innovates and can only continue to try to data mine but they are fighting a losing battle.

At this point revenge may be best to just use a cracked windows install on a VM using a dummy email. You want telemetry, have at it ;)

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK4• 1 year ago

Sure your phone doesn't have any google/apple accounts, right?

nipperkinfeet• 1 year ago

The grass isn't greener. With the amount of advertising, tracking, and upselling on iOS and Android, our smartphones are significantly worse than Windows 11.

KeplerBoy• 1 year ago

It absolutely sets your ad preferences. It does so by asking something along the lines of "do you agree to personalized ads, of you opt out, you won't get fewer ads they'll just be less relevant to you".

I have no idea why we accept ads in a paid product in the first place.

ac29• 1 year ago

If you're setting up Windows in a VM for test purposes, I'd recommend Windows Server. There is an eval version you can get from Microsoft that can be used for 180 days without activation.

No account needed, no extra BS installed.

WD-427• 1 year ago

This is a great tip thanks

zeeebo• 1 year ago

I was banking on Windows 11 being a skip version but Windows 12 will probably be just as bad. Windows 10 forever then!

NKosmatos• 1 year ago

Another stupid move by M$. No wonder the market share of Win11 is still below Win10. IMHO WinXP, 7 and 10 were the best ones. A billion dollar behemoth like M$ should know better ;-)

Windows market share: https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk...

nrp• 1 year ago

This is made worse by Windows 11 retail images being years behind on Wi-Fi drivers. We recommend to customers to use Rufus to create Windows USB installers to bypass the network requirements because Windows 11 doesn’t come with functioning drivers for any of the last few generations of Wi-Fi cards we use.

jmward01• 1 year ago

I'm not sure I would start a job that required me to use Windows at this point much less install it on anything in my home.

zeroq• 1 year ago

At the same time my graphics card asks me to log in with my facebook account to download an update.

loeg• 1 year ago

After that brief golden era of Windows 10 not absolutely sucking, Microsoft is taking the bold stance of making Windows even worse, again.

defrost• 1 year ago

Chris Titus and many volunteers have created an open script powershell application that allows modification of most aspects of windows complete with popup help, references, forums, etc.

The "MicroWin" tab allows users to create their own Windows Install disk image version from the official releases .. giving you the reusable install disk of your choosing .. w/out microsoft accounts, telemetry, etc.

https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil

https://christitus.com/windows-utility-improved/

quickslowdown• 1 year ago

I really did need a kick in the ass to get Linux on the last machine in my house not running it. I know people say this all the time, I have my own excuses for why I still have 1 windows machine, but it truly just isn't worth it anymore.

driggs• 1 year ago

I had to install Windows 11 on a laptop last year, for the first time since win2k. I managed to dodge the online Microsoft account and create a local account, and was proud of myself...

And the installer asks "Enter your name", so I enter "Firstname Lastname".

Now my $HOME directory is `C:\Users\Firstname Lastname` with a space character in it!

Ironically, the whole point of the Windows machine was to install ESRI's ArcGIS Pro, which literally cannot handle spaces in filepaths in the year 2025, so I can't reference data or projects from my user's home directory.

zamalek2• 1 year ago

My AD account has parenthesis in it for my short name, guess how much fun that is.

cstrahan• 1 year ago

I have a personal “Windows install / configuration playbook” so I don’t fall into these types of pitfalls for the Nth time (including the very example you give).

Some fun ones: windows defaults to storing the hardware clock time as a time-zone local offset, so whenever it syncs time with network servers, it messes up your time in other OSes (in multi-boot setups). You have to set the RealTimeIsUniversal registry key to make Windows behave.

What made me figure this out? Another pair of issues: the XBox/gaming app/overlay would give nonspecific errors, or at best not let my party hear me, when I’d try to join my brother’s party when playing games. Eventually connected the dots: I would reboot into Windows after working in Linux, the time would be messed up, and the Windows gaming overlay’s party stuff would be broken, suggesting the local time is used in some way for the chat/voice protocol, but of course they don’t tell you that. I initially scoured pages, and pages of Google search results, leading to countless MS forums and Reddit posts, none of which pointed out the importance of the system time. This wouldn’t be as much of an issue if Windows would more regularly sync the system time, or at least do so upon booting, but of course there isn’t a first-party way to do that, either — the best I could do without installing crap was go into the time settings and unset then set the option for syncing time automatically, coercing it into updating the time right then and there — at least, until I sorted out why the time was all messed up when rebooting after running Linux.

Now with the ads and forced online account creation, it’s only becoming more of a dumpster fire than it already was.

pentagrama• 1 year ago

Ok and some questions.

You can create a Microsoft account with an alias/temp email and fake data? Or phone verification is required?

And later remove the Microsoft account from the system and switch to a local account?

ziml77• 1 year ago

They better give me a way to select my local username then. I always create my user account without an MS account first because the times when I created my Windows account from my MS account it named my user directory as my first name with the final letter missing. It's not even a long name!

anonymousiam• 1 year ago

So how will the air-gapped customers use their Windows 11 computers? Has Microsoft decided to abandon their OS sales to governments and security researchers?

cozzyd2• 1 year ago

This is going to suck for setting up shared lab laptops...

dvno42• 1 year ago

So is this Microsoft account requirement a 'home' version thing? I can't imagine they would force this on pro installations. Unattended installs, kiosks, ATMs, display walls, etc. would be a nightmare to deal with this.

jemmyw• 1 year ago

How do you provision a Windows machine that isn't tied to a person? I've been using the bypass way for laptops used by sports clubs.

I'd like to switch to using Linux but I haven't been able to overcome some packaging and performance issues yet.

adham-omran• 1 year ago

The last 3 times I installed Windows 11 _and_ used an account were a nightmare as for some reason, Microsoft would disable my account for logging in during an install... I avoid Windows like the plague but it's the only place where I can use my audio virtual instruments (No audio production in VMs and I don't own Apple hardware and it'd be ironic for the Windows setup to push me to get an Apple device...)

southernplaces7• 1 year ago

yawn.. https://massgrave.dev/genuine-installation-media

There.

Gazoche• 1 year ago

Called it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42698137

I'll make another prediction: their ultimate goal is to start charging a subscription service for Windows.

muixoozie• 1 year ago

Think You're Right. Then they'll justify price hikes with AI shit nobody asked for.

newdee• 1 year ago

Well, better keep a hold of those older Win11 ISOs then.

The only beneficiaries of this are corps who want to ensure that new devices must check-in for AutoPilot enrolment on first boot out-of-box.

In fact, Macs with Apple silicon will require an internet connection on setup, but only after that machine has been online at least once before and has seen that it’s registered to business (handled by a firmware flag).

misterjensen• 1 year ago

I am betting this will be made illegal in some European country I now have always lived in.

underseacables• 1 year ago

Windows needs to be taken away from Microsoft and made into its own company. It's the same anticompetitive monopoly tactics from the past.

clircle• 1 year ago

Is this going to apply to corporate and government windows installations?

Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

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