Tokyo University Used "Tiananmen Square" Keyword to Block Chinese Admissions

https://unseen-japan.com/tokyo-university-chinese-students-tiananmen/

by ksec • 2 years ago

102 122 2 years ago

That's actually kind of brilliant - akin to putting "David Mayer" into your documents to poison them for OpenAI [0].

That said, I wonder: what's the motive here? Too many spammy applications from Chinese? Affirmative action to favor native students? Plain old racism?

This also makes me wonder if Taiwanese and Mainland Chinese people have different reputations in Japan given that Taiwan is a former Japanese colony and that the Taiwanese aren't shy about what happened in Tiananmen Square.

[0] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/12/certa...

gruez14• 2 years ago

That's actually kind of brilliant - akin to putting "David Mayer" into your documents to poison them for OpenAI [0].

Or more relatedly, the "Tiananmen Square" copypasta.

https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-tiana...

maxglute• 2 years ago

actually kind of brilliant ... what's the motive here

It's smooth brain stupid, like comments posting Tiananmen copypastas on reddit or youtube thinking it would kick out PRC users, who are on those sites in the first place because they're already using VPN to jump over the GFW. Ditto with PRC cohorts who applies to study abroad, who will invariably have VPN access and just switch on if a admissions page times out.

Like ~50% of Japan's international students are from PRC, and this is University of Tokyo who from anecdotes is very friendly to PRC applicants, and have one of the largest international student bodies in general. Quick search online Tokyo University has 4968 international students, 3232 is from PRC, or 65%, substantially higher than JP average, which is way more than I thought. So it's likely just some disgruntled racist who thought it was this one neat trick to block the chicoms, otherwise if it's formal policy, admissions could always just lowkey reduce PRC admission without any overt evidence and prevent drama.

dudisubekti2• 2 years ago

Chinese academia use VPNs all the time to access foreign sites.

I doubt this is effective to deter applications coming from China.

It's probably just a page admin trying to be an activist at best, or being racist at worst.

numpad02• 2 years ago

It's not even activism, just a common snakeoil DDoS-away. Not to say it's okay but not rare.

clpmsf• 2 years ago

The Taiwanese tourists seem to have a significantly more favorable reputation in Japan (in comparison to the Chinese tourists).

tokinonagare2• 2 years ago

Too many spammy applications from Chinese?

As I explain in my own post, to many Chinese applicants, period. A lot of Chinese students are very good, but since China population is huge and a lot wants to go abroad (student visa is a door for immigration) there simply too much demand to go in what is a smaller country in comparison.

Taiwanese are definitively seen in a different light than Chinese, however there isn't a strong awareness of the shared past between the two countries in younger generations.

phoe-krk4• 2 years ago

Discrimination against Korean and Chinese nationals in Japan is, sadly, not an isolated phenomenon.

The whole article is based on two premises:

* that the Great Firewall of China blocking all instances of 六四天安門 in website text is expected and normal,

* that leveraging that behavior in any way (see Hyrum's Law) is unexpected and abnormal.

If the government seeks to filter any and all websites containing a given string, why would the Tokyo University be guilty of discrimination just by adding that string to their website? They are not the actor performing the filtering. One can argue it's the government of China discriminating against Chinese people who want to access information abroad in general.

quink• 2 years ago

I’m also confused because based on that screenshot, the page has HTTPS, which would mean either the block would be client-side, or the entire domain is blocked.

josephcsible• 2 years ago

Or that China uses rogue root CA's to MITM their citizens' HTTPS traffic.

libeclipse2• 2 years ago

Chinese censors use active probing to scrape hosts and block anything with problematic content or services. It's not just DPI based.

chongli• 2 years ago

No need to bypass HTTPS. Just crawl any server that shows up in the logs and block the domain if it has any blacklisted keywords.

gruez14• 2 years ago

If the government seeks to filter any and all websites containing a given string, why would the Tokyo University be guilty of discrimination just by adding that string to their website? They are not the actor performing the filtering. One can argue it's the government of China discriminating against Chinese people who want to access information abroad in general.

Blame isn't a zero sum game. A swatter is just as culpable for someone getting killed/hurt, even if theoretically the actual act was caused by police negligence. Likewise, if the university added the keyword with the intention to dissuade chinese students from applying, they should be raked over the coals for doing so. The fact that actual block was implemented by chinese censors doesn't absolve them of any responsibility.

cogman10• 2 years ago

Yup.

This sort of fallacious thinking happens a lot on the Internet. "X can't be the bad guy because look at what Y did".

One group doing something bad doesn't automatically make the other group innocent.

It's also true that terrible acts by members of a group does not (nesissarely) justify harsh punishment to all members.

phoe-krk4• 2 years ago

Blame isn't a zero sum game.

That actually is a very good summary of your whole post, and it clarified a little bit for me. Thanks, I'll steal that quote for later.

jMyles• 2 years ago

Blame isn't a zero sum game.

...agreed...

A swatter is just as culpable for someone getting killed/hurt, even if theoretically the actual act was caused by police negligence.

...but this is a horrifying and repugnant example. Police violence is not "theoretical", and the critical vulnerability in society which renders an anonymous, unsworn phone call as cover for one person to murder another is bound to be exploited, regardless of we sum the blame.

If we simply disband SWAT teams, there will be nothing to blame so-called "swatters" for because these murders and other acts of terror will be brought to a swift end.

Yizahi• 2 years ago

they should be raked over the coals for doing so

Human rights are not granted for free, they are won and they protected collectively. If malicious actor is deliberately and intentionally undermines human rights they should not not be granted them themselves automatically. If some community works to devolve and degrade education, free speech and other rights for themselves, and then claims they are owed those same rights by the outside groups, they should not be granted them automatically, they should earn them. This should be a collective norm in the developed countries - treat outsiders just like those outsiders want to treat themselves. Instead of appeasing and losing those appeasements time after times. "When will we learn?"(c) Churchill about appeasing dictators

zaik5• 2 years ago

It is discriminatory because someone at the university acted specifically to block Chinese students from accessing the website.

libeclipse2• 2 years ago

They didn't block anyone. They're making a mockery of Chinese censors. It's a political and satirical act.

locallost2• 2 years ago

I can't believe the question was even asked.

seeknotfind2• 2 years ago

Maybe they want the Chinese students who are smart enough to open their eyes to the world.

Teever5• 2 years ago

What if it was a Chinese dissident who is opposed to the censorship and authoritarian behavior of the CCP?

throwaway2905• 2 years ago

Think again what's happening.

If this whole thing is true then this is not evidence that anyone at Tokyo uni stops Chinese students from applying. But it is evidence that CCP stops them. By not loading Tokyo uni's site.

carlosjobim• 2 years ago

And they have every right to discriminate against anybody who isn't Japanese. It is standard procedure everywhere in the world.

Barrin923• 2 years ago

why would the Tokyo University be guilty of discrimination just by adding that string to their website?

because we all can put 1 + 1 together and aren't stupid and understand that the intent here is to discriminate against Chinese applicants, secretly at that? The university of Tokyo is a public university, I'm pretty certain like most other universities in the world they have obligated themselves to not discriminate foreign students outside of what the law stipulates.

Teever5• 2 years ago

Or is the intent to resist the authoritarian behaviour of the CCP?

And if that's the case, isn't that a noble goal that all citizens and institutions of democratic societies should strive to do?

If all major websites did this it would severely degrade the ability of the CCP to function and they may be forced to stop denying the atrocities that they've committed.

slightwinder2• 2 years ago

If the government seeks to filter any and all websites containing a given string, why would the Tokyo University be guilty of discrimination just by adding that string to their website?

They are building on it, and continue the discrimination. And the reason for this is also discrimination in itself. Or is there any other legit reason for adding this specific keyword in an unrelated site?

mmcwilliams• 2 years ago

You're right that they are not the actor performing the filtering but neither are the students being discriminated against the actors performing the filtering. You spell it out in your post; they are "leveraging that behavior" for the purpose of preventing Chinese applicants. It would be no different than blocking all Chinese IPs if you believe that intent matters.

kbelder3• 2 years ago

There's a balancing act here. Each individual Chinese citizen is innocent, but their government isn't; how much should each citizen suffer the consequences of their government's actions?

On one hand, it could be argued that they're innocent, and shouldn't be punished. It's not their fault, and they nave no real ability to change their state policies. They're the primary victims, we should be helping them, not hurting them.

On the other hand, any attempt to hold the government accountable for their actions will invariably impact their citizens. Tariffs, sanctions, war, all can punish a populace because of the actions of a corrupt leadership... and yet it can still be just (see the sanctions against Russia, for example). Being too precious about hurting their population just perpetuates the regime.

zaik5• 2 years ago

All very true, but in this case there is no balancing act. Blocking prospective Chinese students from receiving education abroad punishes only the students and also helps the government in perpetuating their censorship, as this student will now never get to enjoy uncensored access to the internet.

aithrowawaycomm• 2 years ago

The democratic Japanese government could simply ban Chinese admissions as a matter of policy, but there isn't a diplomatic or security justification for doing so. The fact that U Tokyo resorted to a sneaky and underhanded tactic speaks to a bigoted motivation.

jknoepfler3• 2 years ago

Their admissions site is also not available in North Korea, is this Tokyo University's problem?

zaik5• 2 years ago

It's a deliberate act to include this string in the website. Very different.

jknoepfler3• 2 years ago

I don't think anyone anywhere should cater to suppression of Tiananmen Square, and think 100% of the fault lies on the active act of censorship, not the morally and ethically positive act of making a government attrocity visible. I guess I don't care "why"... color me crazy.

Censorship goes away, problem goes away. End of story for me.

orwin• 2 years ago

Honestly I doubt this would have caused a lot of backlash, both in Japan and in the world, and personally I'm slightly impressed by the idea.

Also it's poor taste. If it was 'Xi looks like Winnie the pooh' with a hidden image of the yellow bear, they should have left it on.

aprilthird20213• 2 years ago

You don't think a conspiracy to keep Chinese students from applying to a university while on the surface saying you are open to such applications would cause any backlash? Regardless of your geopolitics, it's weird to claim one thing and secretly do another, especially regarding college admissions

codedokode• 2 years ago

Note that the keyword was used in a "meta keyword" tag, which is invisible when viewing the page in the browser.

hinkley2• 2 years ago

This is an important distinction.

A history teacher saying idgaf and mentioning it in an article on a university hosted website is one thing. Putting it in meta tags, on a graduate admissions site, seems a lot less like free speech and a lot more like fuck you guys.

huijzer• 2 years ago

In a bombshell accusation,

This accusation is only a bombshell if you lived under a rock for the past decades. I have to admit that I have never been to Japan nor that I am a Japan or China expert, but I don’t read much positive things on their relationship.

China says Japan should admit their wartime crimes when they invaded China, and Japan says China should stop conducting assertive actions especially in the East China Sea. According to one poll, the country with the most negative view of China is Japan [1]. Chinese citizen have a similar negative view of Japan [2]. Still, both countries do trade a lot which I don’t understand. I’m curious if anyone here knows more about this.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chinese_sentiment_in_Ja...

[2] https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/15534487

Onavo• 2 years ago

From my understanding the underlying issue is purely geopolitical, neither side gives a shit about the historical reasons and it's mostly being used as propaganda material and a cudgel against each other. Maybe a Japanese/Chinese speaker should comment but from speaking to them, they seem to have no qualms about traveling to either country for tourism.

cowpig2• 2 years ago

neither side gives a shit about the historical reasons

this goes directly against my understanding and also against all of my anecdotal experiences

for example, people I know who lived in China described to me that bad guys in TV shows are often Japanese war criminals

qwezxcrty• 2 years ago

As a Chinese speaker I agree that the historic problems are indeed heavily weaponized in the patriotic propaganda, and I don't care about these at all personally.

However, there are people that do care much more about these, in particular in the older generation from my personal experience. Probably the propaganda was more effective before China's opening up. In addition, Japan also have some conflicts from historical reasons with South Korean, which is an ally to Japan (and to the US).

resoluteteeth• 2 years ago

This accusation is only a bombshell if you lived under a rock for the past decades

This logic seems slightly strange to me. If it turned out that, for example, Harvard University was pulling some sort of html trick to attempt to block black students from applying, would that not be a bombshell because racism against black people is already known to exist in the United states?

gruez14• 2 years ago

Harvard is ostensibly anti-racist, and I think the implication is that japan/chinese is actively racist against each other, so it's not surprising.

kccqzy• 2 years ago

Racism is perhaps not the right term. Xenophobia is a better term. A lot of Japanese people and Chinese people who have never left their respective countries have a dim view of all foreigners. Both countries are also well known for being extremely difficult to immigrate to.

nyolfen• 2 years ago

it would be more like blocking students from nigeria from applying during a period of historical tension between the US and Nigerian governments. there are a huge number of chinese individuals in other countries that did not face any filtering.

jokethrowaway• 2 years ago

A better example would be Harvard blocking people from Iran

layer84• 2 years ago

Still, both countries do trade a lot which I don’t understand.

What’s there not to understand? It makes money.

m3kw92• 2 years ago

The citizens mostly don’t gaf, they love Japan as a tourist destination. All is forgotten once they get the first sip of ramen soup when they arrive

hinkley2• 2 years ago

It’ll probably be miso but the point stands.

tehjoker2• 2 years ago

to be clear, Japan killed millions of chinese citizens and started a biological weapons laboratory with gruesome human experiments near harbin (unit 731 commanded by gen. ishii). it is likely these medical and scientific results were given to the US to avoid trial of 731 members at the tokyo tribunal. imperial japan was like the nazis.

japan complaining about naval maneuvers pales in comparison. imperialists often continue to harbor resentment of those they attacked and lost against. china is supposed to be a subject, not an equal in their minds.

Teever5• 2 years ago

If Germany, France, Britian, and Poland can become allies and tightly integrated economic partners with open boarders after that exact same conflict why can't Japan and China do the same?

rat87• 2 years ago

Japanese war crimes are in the past. They are real and significant. You could claim the apologies Japan offered to China are undermined by incidents of nationalists denying the crimes(compare to Germany's apologies which are often considered to be among the better ones) or the reparations offered were not enough(china turned them down). I think that can be debated. But Japan isn't doing anything today.

Japan is for all of its faults a liberal democratic country with no interest in conquering anyone. China is an authoritarian dictatorship getting worse (under the later years of Xi) and threatening imperialist actions especially against the independent nation of Taiwan(some parallels to Russia getting worse under later years of Putin and starting an imperialist war against Ukraine).

pupppet• 2 years ago

Could you throw that in a page to block Chinese bots/crawlers?

tothrowaway• 2 years ago

This post caught my attention because I do the same thing! Yes, it absolutely works.

jncfhnb• 2 years ago

Very funny to me.

throwaway2905• 2 years ago

That's amazing. I don't see any possible way Tokyo uni is guilty here but CCP isn't... otherwise it's some new level of 1984.

bertil• 2 years ago

Does anyone know how the news is covered in the Chinese media?

corank• 2 years ago

Pretty confident that it's not covered at all.

numpad02• 2 years ago

Ouch. This won't look good.

I doubt this was done to specifically block Chinese applications, as this string is just a common reverse spam filter. The idea is that Chinese GFW will catch it anyhow or give such impression to spammers to scare them. Allegedly suspicious TCP reset or packet losses following responses including this type of text wasn't rare up until 2010s.

Legitimate traffic to Japanese websites is supposedly negligible, therefore resistance against even cutting off all Chinese IPs is quite small among savvy Japanese computer users, and so is to sprinkle this string.

Searching "六四天安門スパム" should give you general public sentiments on this method, not specific to this case. It's at most considered a mildly questionable choice.

ozarker• 2 years ago

How does this blocking work with TLS? Does the Chinese firewall MITM HTTPS somehow?

exabrial• 2 years ago

After working for Alibaba and being in China for several months, I can assure you it goes all ways.

Racism is so casual it was literally talked about outloud during meetings. Was quite the culture shock.

smegma2• 2 years ago

It also says it’s updated its source code check-in verification procedures to prevent anyone from entering the keyword into the University’s HTML code a second time.

I agree that the phrase shouldn’t be used to intentionally filter out Chinese students but this sounds like a horrible precedent. We shouldn’t adopt the same censorship outside of China.

tokinonagare2• 2 years ago

Of course the act is controversial, but it's more interesting to look at why it's happening. No, it's no "racism". There are plenty of Chinese students in Japanese university labs at graduate level. It depends on the branch, but for some speciality it's not rare to have half of graduate students being Chinese. Master degrees and PhD are no very attractive to the native since a bachelor is already almost a guarantee to get a good job, so I an way Japanese research is done on the back of international students, including a lot of Chinese.

The thing is Japan universities have an issue with the number of (good) Chinese students applicants. They already have some special rules, but they can't be too special either. Which mean that without further tweaks, almost no other international applicants would get accepted. University already raised the requirement to the level of Japanese for exchange students a decade ago for that reason, but that didn't solved anything since Chinese writing and vocabulary plus education style give them an edge to reach the highest levels of JLPT easier than other foreigners.

Tokyo University Used "Tiananmen Square" Keyword to Block Chinese Admissions

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