Waffle House's Magic Marker System

https://kottke.org/24/03/waffle-houses-magic-marker-system

by Tomte • 2 years ago

158 136 2 years ago

ramesh31• 2 years ago

There's something absurdly comforting in the banality of this.

Indeed. But also a little disturbing, given that no matter how many choices for the customer this signalling system facilitates, they still get equally low quality food.

TheGRS5• 2 years ago

I was feeling the same way, there is probably some camaraderie that develops in the waffle house staff just around this unique shared language.

wannacboatmovie• 2 years ago

Eating at a Waffle House (preferably at 1am following a night out) is a unique American cultural experience that especially those confined to the Bay Area have been denied. It's a place where those from all walks of life come together.

treflop• 2 years ago

Sounds like IHOP / Denny's in other places

dartos• 2 years ago

As someone who lives near all 3 and a Cracker Barrel.

Waffle House is special.

kjkjadksj3• 2 years ago

These places are far more civilized than a waffle house. Waffle houses have to hire security guards to deal with the drunken foolishness that goes down inside most weekend nights (at least those sited nearish to bars). Everything in the waffle house is able to be cleaned with a hose.

rcmjr• 2 years ago

It is very different because of the size and layout. You almost feel like everyone, including the cooks, are at one big table. It is honestly one of my favorite places to eat alone. It can be really fun at times. Also, kind of dangerous too

zer00eyz2• 2 years ago

Waffle House is an entity unto itself:

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffle_House_Index

See: https://www.motherjones.com/criminal-justice/2011/11/four-se...

See: https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/kid-rock-arrested...

And the man himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bct8stbZafI

Waffle House goes from nice to war zone and back again just about every day. It never closes, never... If a Waffle House is closed you better have a boat or a gun cause what ever comes next will likely require one or both.

rootusrootus2• 2 years ago

I think it is very different. IHOP is a low grade sit-down restaurant where all the food is too sweet. Denny's is sometimes better, but still decidedly low grade. The problem with both is they kinda try to serve stuff that could be better, but they suck at it.

Waffle House has no pretensions, they are unashamedly serving super simple food with zero attempt to be fancy. But they're pretty good at what they do choose to serve (or at least pretty consistent).

I love going there any time I'm in the South. I really wish we had them in the PNW. We're finally starting to get some In-n-Outs here, I'd be in heaven if we got Waffle House too. I can dream...

sidewndr462• 2 years ago

as a southerner I beg you to avoid comparing our precious Waffle House to a mere Denny's

js24• 2 years ago

Anthony Bourdain, upon visiting his first Waffle House, remarked "This is better than the French Laundry":

https://youtu.be/bct8stbZafI?si=ru9hL8xH_a_75J5I

IncreasePosts5• 2 years ago

Yes, but it isn't.

nerdjon• 2 years ago

I don't think Waffle House has locations in any major Urban location.

I really wish we had them in Boston also. It is an experience that even other diners don't really replicate.

Especially the price, I am always shocked when I go to visit parents just how much you get at Waffle House for multiple people for what I am used to spending on just myself.

But it is more than that. The size, the layout, the code words for how you want your hash browns, etc.

skyyler3• 2 years ago

I don't think Waffle House has locations in any major Urban location.

Columbus, Ohio and Atlanta, Georgia both have Waffle Houses. I don't think it's universally a rule that they stay out of cities.

CatAtHeart• 2 years ago

To your first point, they are prolific throughout the South. Very prominent in Atlanta

gte525u• 2 years ago

It may vary on your definition of major - but they definitely do in the southeast and lower midwest.

notaustinpowers2• 2 years ago

Come to Atlanta, down the street from me are two completely separate Waffle Houses built right next to each other that share the same parking lot.

CPLX• 2 years ago

Downtown Atlanta for sure. There was also one near me when I lived in downtown Colorado Springs, which has half a million people.

brodouevencode3• 2 years ago

Every large city in the southeast.

chrisdhal• 2 years ago

They have quite a few in Houston, only the 4th largest metro area in the US.

packetslave• 2 years ago

It's a running joke that any driving directions in the Atlanta Metro Area will include the words "go down Peachtree" and "when you see the waffle house..."

jiveturkey3• 2 years ago

Well, not VC or tech elites, apparently.

lasermatts• 2 years ago

The tech elites of Atlanta and the Waffle House outside of Georgia Tech beg to differ

PopAlongKid• 2 years ago

I have never lived near a Waffle House, but did eat lunch at one in Mobile AL about ten years ago. I found nothing particularly unique about it.

lastofthemojito• 2 years ago

I think it's the affordable, approachable 24/7 always-welcome aspect more than the food.

People have fond memories of going to Waffle House after partying, or going with their tween friends as the only place they could afford to go out to eat, or going after softball games in their still-dirty uniforms.

Another commenter mentioned that Anthony Bourdain said Waffle House was better than The French Laundry (while eating Waffle House drunk, late at night).

To eat at The French Laundry you need to plan ahead and try hard to get a reservation. You have to act and dress appropriately and show up in maybe a 15 minute window for the hostess to deign to grant you the privilege of being seated.

You can eat at Waffle House on a whim, with anyone you like, in (just about) any state you like.

Having had both I wouldn't say that the food at Waffle House is actually better than the food at The French Laundry. But there is something that people appreciate about Waffle House being the reliable place you can always show up for comfort food, at minimum cost with minimum judgement.

brodouevencode3• 2 years ago

I've been eating there all my life (I'm from the south). No there's nothing unique about it to be gauged from a single visit. You'll need to go multiple times to understand and appreciate 1) the consistency in both the food and the service 2) how cheap it is (or really, was) compared to other diner places 3) how they never run out of anything despite being open 24/7 4) how you never really know what's going to go down, especially late at night.

karaterobot• 2 years ago

This comment does not substantively contradict its parent.

serf• 2 years ago

I found nothing particularly unique about it.

it's cheap, it has a basic menu that covers most dietary requirements, it's understaffed by design, and it's open 24/7.

I live in LA -- there is a distinct lack of 24/7 shit even here. I wish we had waffle house simply because i'm sick of Dennys and Norm's being the only 24/7 choice to wander into if I don't want to drive my ass to Canters'.

wil421• 2 years ago

Was it between 12am-4am?

sidewndr462• 2 years ago

An astute observer traveling in the vicinity of Mobile, AL on I-10 will notice that one exit in particular has a Waffle House on both the north side and the south side of the interstate. For travelers' convenience of course.

brodouevencode3• 2 years ago

fun fact: Waffle House used to sell Chick-fil-A sandwiches

chasd00• 2 years ago

from all walks of life come together.

that's an interesting take and i suppose in a way you're right. Another way to describe waffle house at last call is imagine you picked up a zoo and shook it really hard for about 5 minutes then set it down and walked in.

rvba• 2 years ago

Does USA have places that sell kebab?

stouset2• 2 years ago

Yes but no.

What we consider "kebabs" are skewers with grilled meat and/or veggies on them. I'm guessing you mean döner kebab. We do have shawarma which is similar, but I've never seen somewhere that really nails the kind of döner kebab I had in Europe.

jdeisenberg• 2 years ago

There are a few outposts of The Kebab Shop (https://thekebabshop.com/locations/), and here in San Jose California area there are a lot of Mediterranean restaurants selling shwarma.

PawgerZ• 2 years ago

In any large city, yes there will be a palce to get kebabs. Most college cities, too. A lot of times it's just a tiny restaraunt with 4 tables in the back of a grocery store, but that's when you know it's gonna be good.

shakabrah• 2 years ago

and just like fight club, if it’s your first time, you have to fight.

gnicholas• 2 years ago

True, but we have In N Out. I've been there in flip flops and in a tux (as has Paul Giamatti, apparently [1])

1: https://ew.com/paul-giamatti-in-n-out-burger-awards-8426387

jmward012• 2 years ago

There are in-n-out Waffle House crossover cities. Yes, I did plan one cross country trip just to have this perfect day.

082349872349872• 2 years ago

which, with a little surfing, leads to: https://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/03/02/hand-signals-at-t...

frankus• 2 years ago

As a regular customer of the onboard dining on BC Ferries, I was always a bit mystified about how the cashier (maybe 20 m from the counter where you order) seemed to have some kind of clairvoyance regarding which type burger(s) to charge for, as they all use the same kind of wrapper.

It turns out the wrapper (that's printed with patches of stripes and crosshatches in different colo(u)rs), can be wrapped in a way that exposes a particular pattern on the outside of the finished package that indicates what's inside.

I'm sure this sort of system is used elsewhere but I've never noticed it anywhere else.

sjsdaiuasgdia• 2 years ago

Lots of fast food places use wrappers like this. Here's a picture of a Taco Bell wrapper that can be a regular taco, taco supreme, double decker taco, or "special" depending on the fold: https://www.flickr.com/photos/target_man_2000/16329290081

jiveturkey3• 2 years ago

I first saw this at McDonald's. Drink lids (everywhere) have those little bubbles that can be pressed to indicate what type of drink as well. Diet, Sprite, etc.

sp332• 2 years ago

Sure but aren't those all the same price?

ValentineC3• 2 years ago

As someone who tries to minimise my sugar intake, one of my nightmares is getting served a non-diet drink by accident, because one of the lids gets pressed wrongly along the way.

I wonder if there's technology out there for cheap sugar testing sticks… huh, it looks like a company finally launched like that in 2021.

helph67• 2 years ago

Values of electrical resistors are often indicated via a pattern of coloured rings around the body.

piinbinary• 2 years ago

That's how you can identify a 24-ohm snake https://xkcd.com/1604/

imacomputer• 2 years ago

I haven't had a breakfast on BC Ferry for a while since they redid the interior/livery on all of the boats. Pretty sure I used to eat the jam packets on the tables.

peppertree• 2 years ago

Pro: less likely to mixup orders since the order is encoded into the plate. Con: running out of condiment could be a show stopper.

skyyler3• 2 years ago

They have at least two weeks worth in storage.

Waffle House running out of any particular ingredient should never happen, barring serious supply chain malfunction or mis-management.

I briefly worked at one before getting into IT and it was neat to learn how tightly controlled the operations of a restaurant can be. Glad I have those memories.

keane2• 2 years ago

This reminds me of the simple substitution cipher that coin, diamond, and antique dealers use on their price tags to encode the lowest price their staff are allowed to take during bartering: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/760945/how-do-deale... https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/109089/cracking... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_cipher#:~:text=In...

Also related, only very tangentially, but ever-interesting, FEMA's Waffle House Index (2016): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15105662

fckgw• 2 years ago

Oh wow, this brought up an old memory. Fry's Electronics used to have a code like this in their old "green screen" quote system. There was a group of letters at the bottom of every screen that listed the true cost of the item. The cipher word was "Pathfinder". This was used to help sales managers determine discounts and markdowns on used/damaged/clearance product.

Closi• 2 years ago

While I sort-of-love-it, it does seem very complicated for new starters.

I'm sure this system is great once you know it, but it is a high learning curve and I do struggle to imagine a world where ePOS with a ticket system doesn't work better (both for the 'caller' and for the chef).

giraffe_lady• 2 years ago

I've learned similarly complex food signaling systems and the thing is that you're seeing dozens if not hundreds per shift, and training already takes a couple weeks for other reasons. So by the time you're on your own and needing to know it confidently you've had plenty of practice.

jmward012• 2 years ago

I suspect it forces out people quickly which may actually help keep better qualified workers. I've personally found the average Waffle House employee a cut above other places so maybe this is the reason.

taylorfinley• 2 years ago

I don't know how common this is, but for me pickles (and their juice) trigger intense disgust and involuntary gagging. If pickles were on the cutting board or touched the knife, I will not be able to enjoy the sandwich. When ordering a sandwich I'll always ask for no pickles on the sandwich or the plate/take out container. It seems I'm an edge case this system doesn't anticipate, I wonder how they handle pickle-averse customers?

scottyah• 2 years ago

From what I've seen, your level of pickle sensitivity and hate is very uncommon, and based off how much they seem to cater their menus to people I do not expect they have a system in place to address it.

jzemeocala• 2 years ago

Hooters does the same thing with various coloured toothpicks, plate papers and pickles

TheGRS5• 2 years ago

I can't help thinking its simultaneously ingenious and hilariously convoluted. Looks like it would be fast to setup, easy to read from the line cook area, and also simple to modify. I'm sure if I was doing the work I could learn the system pretty quickly, but glancing over it as an outsider all I can think about it how ridiculous it sounds that an upright jam packet over a mustard packet means 3 eggs.

And they use what they have, these places always need pickles and jam packets, whereas a real magic marker can dry up and you might forget to order replacement. Fascinating for sure.

tivert2• 2 years ago

I can't help thinking its simultaneously ingenious and hilariously convoluted.

It's just ingenious, they're coding the order onto the customer's plate by partially setting it up. They're getting some of the work done, and they don't have to fumble with some separate source of truth.

TheGRS5• 2 years ago

Still would take a lot of training to get right. Its not intuitive. And I can certainly find a lot of humor in how its implemented.

jvm___• 2 years ago

Also there's nothing to transfer and lose, assuming you don't drop the plate, any built plate just continues until it's complete, no messy papers to move and try to keep associated with what plates. The waiter bringing the order to the table can QA it and pick the right plates.

It's kind of genius.

gretch• 2 years ago

Doesn't this encoding scheme seem extremely brittle to errors during operation?

Like for example, you put the jelly pack at 12 o'clock, and then if someone rotates the plate, now it's at 6 o'clock and you have the wrong meat for the order.

Or, someone simply bumps into the plate and the packet slides to the other side. Even if you bumped it and it did not slide, you could not verify that it did not slide.

My general take away here is that someone tried to invent a new language basically (pictographic). And english (pen/paper) was probably sufficient? Inventing new languages (and having everyone learn them) is extremely hard.

Edit: btw, I've eaten at waffle house several times, although it was 10+ years ago when I was regular. They did frequently get my order wrong by forgetting things. I don't think it was attributable to this encoding scheme (one time the waiter tried to memorize the whole order and simply failed)

mdekkers• 2 years ago

These folks don’t get paid enough

Waffle House's Magic Marker System

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