IAC sold 17 apps to Bending Spoons. $100M deal, all 330 employees fired

https://twitter.com/rjonesy/status/1745567200600076531

by tomaskafka • 3 years ago

249 197 3 years ago

emmet• 3 years ago

Welp, better cancel my Productive subscription.

pocketarc• 3 years ago

You’re not wrong. Been using it since ~2015, seems like it’s time to move on. Maybe this is the kick I needed to build something out myself, been thinking about it for years.

kbar13• 3 years ago

i'm not sure i quite understand the situation. is the implication that bending spoons is some kind of private equity firm but for apps that will suck the soul out of these 17 apps? i haven't heard of this company before but browsing their site at least the marketing speak points towards it not being the case... could someone explain?

vdddv• 3 years ago

it's exaclty that, and it's based on them doing it to several high profile apps (ex: evernote)

vineyardmike3• 3 years ago

They’re not private equity… they’re like a bottom tier tech conglomerate that’s been growing rapidly lately. They most famously bought Evernote.

They buy apps/products that mature and don’t need a lot of work, fire all the workers and hire a skeleton crew to manage them in a cheaper labor market.

They also harvest data from the apps and resell it.

hiAndrewQuinn2• 3 years ago

I've always wanted to build a digital burial business like this, actually. It feels like a great way to tax late adopters' unwillingness to take on the risk of switching to a newer, better platform. As a late adopter myself of a great many things I feel like I understand the crotchety reluctance well enough to make a good go at it - maybe I'll unlearn my own risk aversion along the way.

jtthe13• 3 years ago

Yes. That and they optimize the pricing to squeeze as much profit from captive users (or those that don't know better). They increased the pricing for Evernote quite aggressively, and reduced the free features if I recall correctly. Selling to Bending Spoons is pretty much giving up and letting the vultures have a bite at the remains.

mathverse• 3 years ago

Dont their hire mostly in Italy?

andsoitis2• 3 years ago

They buy apps/products that mature and don’t need a lot of work, fire all the workers and hire a skeleton crew to manage them in a cheaper labor market.

What's wrong with rightsizing workforce to be commensurate with work?

Sayrus• 3 years ago

They recently acquired Meetup as well [1]. This doesn't bode well for its future.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38953242

Hoefner• 3 years ago

And Evernote almost 2 years ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33623402

ParetoOptimal• 3 years ago

Obsidian, logseq, or even org-roam are evernote replacements?

w0m3• 3 years ago

evernote falling apart is a sad day :( I loved it before the monetization changees killed it.

magicalhippo2• 3 years ago

Speaking of, is there a good replacement for Meetup if you just want to organize some informal activities, like a user group or going biking?

joe_fishfish• 3 years ago

Sadly most people (at least in my country) use Facebook for this.

sambalbadjak2• 3 years ago

In the Netherlands we use Erbij, (https://erbij.app), which is now going international. full disclosure, I'm one of the founders

bschne• 3 years ago

I've seen https://lu.ma used thought it's built more around one-offs than recurring meetups of the same group. Also, and I think it's closer to meetup, https://app.getriver.io/ -- though I don't think it has too much traction yet.

frankdenbow• 3 years ago

Partiful.com has been pretty good for me

pseudocomposer• 3 years ago

My AGPL, micro-federated platform Jonline has support for events with anonymous (or logged in) RSVPs. Still very early, and there are definitely still bugs, but you can deploy yourself and/or contribute!

https://github.com/JonLatane/jonline https://jonline.io https://bullcity.social https://oakcity.social

philip1209• 3 years ago

I'm building an async community software called Booklet [1], and I use it to organize a couple NY-based IRL communities - including an indie founders group and a tech dinners series. It doesn't send calendar invites (yet!), but I find that the async format keeps members engaged over time. Plus, it's independent of social networks and communicates via email.

When I lived in SF, I used Meetup to start + run OpenLate, a tech meetup with a few thousand members. Not having access to member email addresses was the worst part of Meetup, and it's probably the main reason the site still has users. (Data portability is a big focus of Booklet).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37585869

bdr• 3 years ago

There are plenty of tools for organizing activities. Meetup’s real value, which no one has replaced yet for various reasons, is in getting new people to join.

TuringNYC2• 3 years ago

https://partiful.com/

bombcar• 3 years ago

Anyone know of a simple badge printing setup that could work with things like Meetup, etc? Just an iPad app that can take a CSV of names and companies, say, that can connect to a Zebra printer. Everything I'm finding wants to rent you the software and the printer, I just want to scrounge them up once and for all.

mooreds• 3 years ago

I have a friend who is building https://rsvpstreet.com/

He doesn't have the discoverability of Meetup, of course, but handles the RSVPs and organizing. Pricing is on the website.

prepend3• 3 years ago

I still like Meetup for local hiking groups planning hikes and game nights and stuff. Basically “friendly things with strangers” type stuff.

I’m not aware of anything else out that works like that.

Brajeshwar• 3 years ago

Recently, “Filmic's entire staff laid off by parent company Bending Spoons”

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502586

John238323• 3 years ago

Meetup needs an alternative anyway. They shove ads in your face, and the app is buggy.

1over137• 3 years ago

Alas all (web) software shoves ads in your face, and all software is buggy. ;(

hobofan• 3 years ago

Meetup has already been scaled down during the time it was owned by WeWork, and hasn't really changed during that time, so I doubt a lot will change.

It's almost more surprising that Bending Spoons thinks they can squeeze out any money out of Meetup.

vineyardmike3• 3 years ago

Obviously sucks to be one of those 330 employees, but I wonder if we really need all these junk apps that just harvest user data. Hopefully they can get work doing something fulfilling.

Every time a data harvester moves operations to Europe for cheaper labor, it seems like a game of Russian roulette. When will the day come that the EU drives Bending Spoons out of existence?

The US should adopt intent nationalistic laws against international businesses collecting American’s data. Not because of National Security (but that’s what the politicians can say) but simply because Americans are the most valuable markets and it’ll drive many of these companies out of business, and generally disrupt the market.

oaiey• 3 years ago

Better said is: Every time a company does radical shift in company structure by shady management, it seems like a game of Russian roulette. Law-wise, your data is more safe in the EU than in most of the US even for an American citizen. An American company/management under bad privacy laws can just sell your data at the highest bidder.

vineyardmike3• 3 years ago

Yea the whole industry sucks, but it’s just an easier political move to ban “outsiders” from doing shady things.

tonyedgecombe• 3 years ago

Companies like this aren’t on the EU’s radar. It’s the big tech monopolies that get the negative attention and big incumbent businesses that get positive attention.

Individual countries in the EU can make things more bureaucratic than they need to be for smaller businesses but that has little to do with the EU.

tgsovlerkhgsel• 3 years ago

Why is an adware company allowed to advertise its app with the name of a government organization ("NOAA Weather Radar")? Since they can just sell the app, I assume it's not them writing it for the government on contract.

samch• 3 years ago

I don’t think it’s allowed without permission per: https://www.usa.gov/government-copyright

Specifically, “Endorsement, trademarks, and agency logos You cannot use government materials in a way that implies endorsement by a government agency, official, or employee. For example, using a photo in your advertisement of a government official wearing or using your product is not permitted. You also cannot use federal government trademarks or federal government agency logos without permission. For example, in general, you cannot use an agency logo or trademark on your social media page to suggest endorsement or sponsorship by the agency.”

NOAA does have a licensing program, but I somehow doubt that this app was part of that program. Assuming that’s true, then this is likely a case of poor enforcement.

dmurray2• 3 years ago

Is that the law, or is that more the government saying, through its publicists, how it would like its image to be used?

Seems crazy that, say, an outdoor clothes retailer couldn't share a photo of a group trek where the park ranger was wearing its gear. Or that SpaceX couldn't publish a photo of NASA astronauts flying in its spacecraft - even with NASA's permission.

kasperni• 3 years ago

If you read their Wikipedia page [1] they sound like an Italian Saint. A lot about the various awards they have gotten and other "charitable" activities.

But reading the comments here, I get another impression of the company.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bending_Spoons

fallingknife• 3 years ago

One the one hand, never take rankings and awards like that seriously. On the other hand, people in these comments are irrationally angry about the fact that people are getting fired in this deal without knowing any of the business reasons behind it.

epolanski4• 3 years ago

That's like 100% written by themselves or a PR agency.

stuartjohnson123• 3 years ago

The great thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can edit. Don't mind if I do...

fakedang2• 3 years ago

Really? I didn't check if anything in the page changed, but it seems to me like Bending Spoons was a failing wannabe Rocket Internet:

"Evernote was acquired and everyone was laid off."

"Immuni was awarded but less than 1% used it."

"Acquired some company and fired its entire team."

Literally sounds like some tech scavenger.

cdchn• 3 years ago

The Gordon Gekkos of 2024.

Sakos• 3 years ago

Oh wow, they even acquired Evernote and fired the entire staff. I hadn't heard about that.

bayindirh2• 3 years ago

Yeah, they did that. The app is not going "downhill" yet, however if they start to ruin it for good, I'll be moving out.

I was not planning to do that, and I don't wish that they force me to do that.

AlwaysRock• 3 years ago

Evernote finally pushed me over the edge when they limited free plans to 50 notes last month. They had made so many changes to the ui and price increases that it was becoming a worse and worse product.

Apples free notes app replaced it and other than being SLIGHTLY annoying that I have to log into the web app on windows machines... I dont miss evernote at all.

andruby• 3 years ago

The wikipedia page has been thoroughly editted today and reads a lot more factual now.

brandall10• 3 years ago

It is but it's still not up to date with their more recent carnage.

Is this just an aggressive PE firm or what?

DeathArrow• 3 years ago

How are they going to earn money if they fired the entire team?

epolanski4• 3 years ago

By freezing most new development and limiting the work to maintenance and user data/money milking.

Someone• 3 years ago

Teams cost money, so that’s a cost-cutting measure. They’ll replace it with a better team, where ‘better’ is defined from a $$$ perspective.

There’s a wide range of options here:

- zero person team, and hope to recover cost from buying from existing subscribers and new buyers/subscribers over time before the app dies.

- replace them with marketeers, and hope to get enough more new buyers/subscribers before the app dies.

- smaller team, making it easier to break-even.

- cheaper developers, making it easier to break-even.

A new development team might just be a skeleton team to keep the app running across OS upgrades, or it might be a much larger team, or anything in-between.

BizarroLand3• 3 years ago

Also, they could dump the entire thing onto their existing team and just let them deal with it. If the pressure makes you crack then you just weren't up to snuff, right?

mrweasel• 3 years ago

It does seem like a really short term business plan: Buy up a bunch of apps, milk them of all their worth, gambling that it will be more than they paid, before the users all leave. Then take the profit and slaughter a new set of apps.

In this case I do wonder how much those apps are actually worth, IAC is apparently happy to take $100M for them, which would indicate that in their current form they aren't going to make $6M each in the short term.

Both companies seem rather strange, they don't appear to have any actual coherent business plan.

timenova• 3 years ago

They did the same recently with Filmic [0], of the Filmic Pro iOS Camera app.

I guess this is what the exact opposite of acqui-hire looks like. Acquire only for the app's customers, and their currently ongoing subscriptions, and nothing else.

Does anyone know if they maintain these apps well over time, or they just rot?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502586

dylan6043• 3 years ago

acqui-fire??

hhh• 3 years ago

I loved NOAA Weather Radar before they shut it down.

kramerger• 3 years ago

I feel if an app changes ownership, all users should automatically be notified by the app store.

wouldbecouldbe• 3 years ago

I mean this is not just app related, companies can sell applications with it's user data regardless of the app store.

aitchnyu• 3 years ago

Browser extensions too.

CodesInChaos• 3 years ago

an app changes ownership

Unfortunately defining what that means becomes rather tricky once you consider that the company owning the app can change ownership. That ownership can be shared and go through arbitrarily many indirections, and if it's a publicly traded company, some of its shares change ownership all the time.

bmitc2• 3 years ago

It's not tricky. Someone owns it.

IG_Semmelweiss• 3 years ago

For public companies, it is extremely easy. Just start off with a warning every time certain filing (Section 13) is made. You could conceivably do this automated.

For private, large companies, its a simply attestation. You could open source monitoring for changes - if the company makes an PR announcement of any kind , or if a member of the public reports submits proof of change of control exercise in their contract, ask the company to update their attestation and compare.

They don't provide it ? They get a nice little red banner alerting users of shadiness going on.

jeff_tyrrill• 3 years ago

I think the legal concept of "beneficial ownership" is the intent here: We want to know the ultimate (natural) person(s) who control the app's assets and for whose benefit the app is monetized.

There is no simple rule that can be applied at scale. Determining beneficial ownership requires a case-by-case review of not just the chain of legal ownership, but management, contracts, incentives, etc.

Any fixed rules can be gamed. For example, a company could license out its name as a "franchise" who is legally independent but whose franchise contract has so many arms of control that they de facto function as a single company. Another example is that a majority donor of a nonprofit controls the nonprofit even if they have no board seats or de jure power to appoint or fire board members.

prox• 3 years ago

This should be a law really. Any subscribers to any service should promptly be notified about the change in parent company and clear language changes (like ads and new permissions etc.)

benrapscallion• 3 years ago

Bending spoons also acquired EverNote not so long ago.

m-p-3• 3 years ago

Bending Spoons seems to be the "Broadcom" of mobile apps, where softwares goes to die a death by a thousand cuts.

hnfong• 3 years ago

If they fire everyone from the acquired company in one go, it sounds more like a giant hemorrhage than a thousand small cuts...

elondaits• 3 years ago

Calling your company "Bending Spoons" is like calling it "Stealing Chickens" (Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_bending)

ronyfadel• 3 years ago

It's a reference to the Matrix movie

detourdog2• 3 years ago

They can choose what they thought they were referencing. They don't get the opportunity to tell others what to infer.

lnxg33k13• 3 years ago

Guess in the specific case “Fucking People” would have worked too

m0llusk• 3 years ago

Except such a name would be considered inappropriate in a wide range of situations. Also worth pointing out a large number of people enjoy being on the receiving end of penetrative sex.

heresie-dabord• 3 years ago

Although not vulgar, the following alternatives are just too generally applicable:

"Robbing the Inattentive"

"Abusing the Gullible"

"Parasitic Operations"

"Scruples Be Damned"

"Helping the World Burn"

muzani• 3 years ago

It smells a little like a money laundering company. Large acquisitions of loss making companies. Unclear initial source of funds. A history of making decent products worse then firing everyone. How does the money flow?

TheChaplain• 3 years ago

Bending Spoons also bough Evernote a while ago. Pretty much doubled the price.

With that I thought they could go stuff themselves and went to unsubscribe, but they offered a drastic discount if I didn't. So they managed to keep me for another year. :/

But if they don't get their Python SDK in order soon I might drop them anyway.

blantonl• 3 years ago

Python SDK

LOL ok I'm sure they are going to escalate this to the top. For you, and maybe one other person. :)

dimgl• 3 years ago

Ah crap. I use Robokiller.

cs7023• 3 years ago

Investors in Bending Spoons include musician The Weekend, tennis player Andre Agassi, movie star Bradley Cooper, former Google CEO Eric Schmidt, and director/actor Taika Waititi, among many other famous people: https://bendingspoons.com/people (scroll to the bottom to see all names).

I wonder if any of these illustrious backers are aware of the true business model of Bending Spoons, which can only be described as scammy:

1. Buy apps that have loyal users.

2. Fire all or most of the employees.

3. Update the apps with the most possibly intrusive adware, to milk user data for cash, earning a nice return.

Most users will thoughtlessly tap "OK" when asked to agree to the barrage of new permissions requested by the updated apps.

The company does other things too, but this is its main business.

mariusmg• 3 years ago

Wow, even that /people page screams "douchebags".....

atlasunshrugged• 3 years ago

Yes, also I'm not sure I see hiring decisions made by committee as a plus!

badosu• 3 years ago

"Creator of product topping Hacker News"

I can't help but find this funny

darkwater• 3 years ago

Well, the compensation is not that bad for a company headquartered in Milan (Italy) and remote-friendly

Competitive salary and stock options. Our compensation packages are designed to attract and retain the best talent in the industry. Individuals just starting their career joining on a full-time contract are offered a salary of €63,965 along with a €1,200 welfare bonus. If you already have a few years of relevant work experience, you can expect to earn between €105,737 and €143,330, depending on your expertise

upheaval7276• 3 years ago

Complete with cringe-worthy nickname for employees: “spooners”.

CyberDildonics• 3 years ago

Update the apps with the most possibly intrusive adware, to milk user data for cash, earning a nice return.

I think this is every app's business model now.

dylanz• 3 years ago

Private equity playbook

ametrau• 3 years ago

If Apple enables it (by being sloppy with the App Store quality controls for years now) why not?

dehrmann• 3 years ago

Except for Eric Schmidt, that cap table reads like a bunch of suckers trying to "diversify their success." Barry Diller, on the other hand, is no sucker.

BizarroLand3• 3 years ago

I also like how we are attaching these people to this company as though the Weekend and Taika Watiti sat down and sculpted a plan to get rich by being dickheads.

I bet their portfolio managers did that, and then attached their names to the deal to lend it an air of credibility, probably negotiating some sweet bonuses and spiffs for themselves in the process, and now this reads like they're all a POS, which, while that may be true for other reasons, hides the likely fact that the real POS's here are the stockbrokers.

simonebrunozzi2• 3 years ago

The most notable acquisition in recent times has been Evernote.

They're doing exactly as you are describing.

smsm422• 3 years ago

I've been Evernote user for years, didn't see any ads. Am I not looking in the right place?

imaurer• 3 years ago

How'd they get both Chainsmokers?

outcoldman2• 3 years ago

Actually have been using NOAA Weather Radar a lot. Time to uninstall.

melnichek• 3 years ago

I suggest you try rainbow.ai As a weather radar, it's far more accurate in the US

outcoldman2• 3 years ago

Does not look like it much different from default weather app on ios.

pmontra• 3 years ago

This IAC? https://www.iac.com/

bdcravens• 3 years ago

20 employees per app? I'll never minimize the amount of work it takes to create software, but even so, that seems like a lot. Moreso when you consider how many employees' skills could be applied to multiple apps.

fckgw• 3 years ago

Is 20 people per company a lot? It's not just a person and some software.

Robokiller for example is a paid service with a business division. You're talking developers, sales teams, support, and everything else that goes with it.

csours• 3 years ago

Comparing a working app to a product running in the market is like comparing a peacefully sleeping baby to a person actively competing in a triathlon.

curiouscats• 3 years ago

Is there an app that monitors your apps to see if any have been sold to such unethical companies to alert you to delete your accounts with those apps?

That would seem like a useful app.

Frankly Apple and Alphabet should offer such a service but I don't have much confidence that they will.

test1235• 3 years ago

can apps see what other apps are installed?

smachiz• 3 years ago

At least on iOS, only with MDM profiles for managed devices tagged as company owned I believe.

mhh__3• 3 years ago

This is actually really important for things like browser extensions.

krembo• 3 years ago

Just use Little Rat to block unwanted call-homes, telemetry and stuff like that https://github.com/dnakov/little-rat

euphetar• 3 years ago

Auqui-fire?

amadeuspagel• 3 years ago

Bending Spoons is a european company, and one of their major advantages is that salaries in europe are lower, obviously they need to fire the american employees of any company they buy to play that out.

zelphirkalt• 3 years ago

Wait, isn't bending spoons the same company that recently acquired Meetup? Lets see how this plays out for Meetup employees.

IAC sold 17 apps to Bending Spoons. $100M deal, all 330 employees fired

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