German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/german-pirate-party-election-304058

by NonEUCitizen • 14 years ago

158 64 14 years ago

hollywoodreporter.com

sek• 14 years ago

Anti-copyright group ...

The site is called Hollywoodreporter, no surprise.

If anybody ist interested: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,823738,00...

The core discourse is about civil liberties and resentment with the old parties.

mhd5• 14 years ago

Speaking of reporting, I wonder how long it'll take until the "Pirates board another x" phrase gets retired…

ghost91• 14 years ago

I'm from germany, but I'm not sure if I would elect them.

In last months there were so many chances for them, but they missed every one.

For example they organised demonstrations against ACTA, but I never heard anything directly from the pirate party.

LinaLauneBaer2• 14 years ago

There are several press releases about ACTA on piratenpartei.de: http://www.piratenpartei.de/category/pm/

phreeza• 14 years ago

The point is not to just write a press release, it is to get your platform noticed. They missed this opportunity with ACTA and also when our president resigned. Fefe ranted about this in several posts on his blog.

My hunch is they simply lack the political shrewdness required in these matters at the moment, but that also makes them more appealing to me, they are not just playing the same old game (yet).

PS: nice nickname :D

cabalamat5• 14 years ago

> In last months there were so many chances for them, but they missed every one.

If they are so incompetent, but still get 7.4% of the vote, then how will will they do once they get their act together?

hef198986• 14 years ago

Anti-copyright group... That and the "everything for free party" are the most common discriptions media and the established parties are trying to pose on the Pirates right now. That and the misinterpretation that an opposition to an attemt to simply block child pornographic sites when you try to access them from germany equals a support of said sites.

They are anew party with some, IMHO interessting fresh approaches. And if we have a party in the parliaments of one of the biggest economies in Europe oppossing the most wierd initiatives from the content industry, well that can only be great!

mhd5• 14 years ago

What could probably work out well for them is the opposite of a "fresh approach". In an interview today, one of the new members of parliament said that he sees the PP as representing classical liberalism, as opposed to the FDP's neo-liberalism. That would be something to unite behind, beyond straight-forward internet themes. But we'll have to see whether it's something the whole party can agree on.

In its ideal form, that's something good about the German electoral system. Due to the fact that traditionally most parts need a coalition to form a government, you can have some kind of "mixin" system, i.e. vote for a party because it adds something valuable to the whole effort, not because you could see them govern totally on their own. Especially if the party isn't tied to one particular big sibling, which more and more seems to be the case now.

hef198986• 14 years ago

That's what I meant. Apparently, the old is the new fresh, or something like that. :-) What I expect from them is representation of civil rights and personal freedom in society. And you don't even have to be part of the government to do that in Germany. Just one question, you are from Germany, aren't you?

eru6• 14 years ago

Funny thing is that neo-liberalism actually used to have a different meaning in Germany. That meaning also had a synonym called Ordoliberalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordoliberalism), that didn't change so much in meaning.

Anyway, the Pirateparty also has a substantial social democratic background, so calling their stance social liberalism is probably more sensible. (Using the European meaning of liberalism.)

icebraining• 14 years ago

Copyright discussions played little role in the Pirate's successful campaign, however. The party instead focused on issues of social and political reform.

Has anyone with real political influence (so, not them for now ;) addresses this issue? I suppose this was relevant before, but with more targeted parties like the Pirates, I think the faults in our election system seem more pronounced.

The reality is that a party like this is doomed to either lose votes for not having a position on anything else besides copyright, privacy and such, or lose votes by alienating the people who disagree with them on other issues.

sp332• 14 years ago

The Green Party (can't remember if it was the German or E.U. party) added some of the Pirate Party's planks to their platform, since they didn't have an official stance on copyright before and were losing voters out of their core demographics to the Pirate Party.

hef198986• 14 years ago

Copyright et al. is just the most well-known program point they. AFAIK the movement started in scandinavia (sweden?) as response to some Pirate Bay issues I forgot about after all the SOPA, ACTA Megaupload stories. Already sorry for being to lacy to look it up right now.

yxhuvud2• 14 years ago

Actually, it was started a few months before the police raid on the Pirate Bay raid. Membership exploded at that point though.

Tichy• 14 years ago

I think their attraction has by now moved far beyond the copyright thing. People feel that politics has become completely detached from their daily lives, and the pirate party promises to change that, for example with direct democracy.

For example, anybody can get elected at the Pirate Party atm. Try that in the established parties: I think you have to join in kindergarden and toil for decades before you can make it big in an established party. If you feel strongly about some issue, could you join an established party and hope to get heard? It seems unlikely.

jellicle3• 14 years ago

For the political hackers: note that these victories are made possible by Germany's proportional representation system, which guarantees seats in parliaments to any party which gets more than 5% of the popular vote across the state/city/whatever. Thus parties with broad but shallow support do get represented in government.

The electoral systems in the UK-derived nations (geographic districts only, first past the post) expressly prohibit such broad-but-shallow movements from ever being represented in government. If the Pirate Party in a U.S. state got the same percent of the vote, they would end up with precisely zero seats in the legislature. Even if they got double that percent of the vote, they would end up with precisely zero seats in the legislature. Triple? Still zero. The U.S. electoral system is an extremely conservative one, which prevents new political movements from ever being heard in government. There are better ones, such as Germany's.

arethuza• 14 years ago

The Scottish Parliament actually has an element of PR, so we do get some minority parties with seats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament#2011_result

It wouldn't surprise me if we have Pirate Party MSPs in a few years.

[NB Scotland is still very much a part of the UK, at least for a couple of years or so!].

jellicle3• 14 years ago

Ah, I didn't know Scotland had MMP. Good for you. I was thinking of the U.S., Canada, and UK main parliament.

cabalamat5• 14 years ago

> It wouldn't surprise me if we have Pirate Party MSPs in a few years

The Scottish parliament is one of the legislatures we're targetting -- it is good for us brecause it has a combination of (a) low threshold to get elected, and (b) low amount of money necessary to run an effective campaign.

hef198986• 14 years ago

Which electoral system is better is another discussion. Both have their flaws, but a pretty good discription of how elections work in Germany.

davidw5• 14 years ago

One serious flaw of the proportional system, like Italy and Israel both have, is that a small party can be the deciding vote, and have a much larger weight than it merits.

For instance: center-left party gets 48% of the vote, communists (they still exist here) get 4% of the vote. To form a majority, the large party must strike a deal with the small party, which can dictate conditions... This happens regularly in Italian politics, and I believe in Israel as well.

Another flaw is that, in Italy at least, since it is not the voters of a given district who decide on one of several candidates, it is the political party who decides who actually gets to be on the list of people sent to parliament. This gives a lot of power to the political party itself, and whoever controls it.

eru6• 14 years ago

The Economist had a nice line: "Germany is a country that only works in practice."

twelvechairs• 14 years ago

> The electoral systems in the UK-derived nations (geographic districts only, first past the post)

Not sure 'UK-derived nations' is a very accurate description. New Zealand for one, has a mixed-member proportional system similar to Germany. Australia has preferential voting (not first past the post) and an upper house with proportional representation. I'm sure other commonwealth states must have diversity in voting systems also, despite being otherwise 'UK-derived'.

rmc• 14 years ago

Ireland also has a PR-STV system, aswell as multi member constituancies.

mhellmic• 14 years ago

Just to be clear, the pirate party (with 7.4%) is in the parliament, not in the government. The government will most likely consist of a coalition of the parties CDU and SPD, so that the Pirates will be in the opposition.

I am sure you meant that, but it wasn't clear to me.

cabalamat5• 14 years ago

> The electoral systems in the UK-derived nations (geographic districts only, first past the post) expressly prohibit such broad-but-shallow movements from ever being represented in government.

This is true for the Westminster parliament. It is not true for other elected bodies in the UK, which use the following electoral systems, and with the approximate share of the vote you need to get elected:

   London Assembly, MMP (as Germany), 5%
   Scottish Parliament, MMP, c. 6%
   Welsh Assembly, MMP, c. 8%
   Northern Ireland assembly, 6 member STV, c. 10%
   NI local government, 6 member STV, c. 10%
   Scottish local government, 3-4 member STV, c. 13%
   European parliament, 
      1 STV constituency and 11 closed lists,
      varies between c. 8% and 17%

Incidentally, I am a Pirate Party UK candidate standing in Edinburgh this May -- http://edinburgh.pirateparty.org.uk/

axx• 14 years ago

You should also keep in mind, that the german pirate party isn't only about copyright stuff.

They're also "the only" party in germany that represents the interests of web-centric citizens. While the conservative parties try to regulate the internet in germany more an more (you know, germany has A LOT of regulations, everywhere) the pirate party is a good alternative.

I'm really happy about this movement, even if they don't land a huge hit after a few years, you can see more younger people getting more interest in politics etc.

Cass2• 14 years ago

In addition to the things you mentioned, I'm also quite happy about the existence of a party containing many young, inexperienced members in the government. They seem to be reinventing the wheel at least partly out of ignorance of the way things have always been done in German politics, and while that does lead to some chaos within the party, in some cases they're reinventing it for the better.

Even if they don't manage to push through any meaningful changes at all by themselves, their mere presence seems to be enough to shake up the traditional parties, and show them that they need to be more open and inclusive towards the general public, and particularly younger voters.

buster• 14 years ago

Jesus... and all with a "top 10 pirated movies of all time" picture gallery.. what horrible site is that!?

A pretty good article for the germans among us can be found here:

http://sz-magazin.sueddeutsche.de/texte/anzeigen/36648/

eru6• 14 years ago

Thanks. That's pretty good. By the way, the Neue Zurcher Zeitung often has an interesting outsider's perspective on events in Germany (e.g. http://www.nzz.ch/marktplaetze/uebersicht/kaum_gegenwind_fue...).

philippK• 14 years ago

I'm from Saarland (the state where the vote was last night), and i voted for the pirate party last night.

They are not an anti copyright group. It's true that they want to see modifications made to overly strict copyright laws and oppose treaties like ACTA, data retention laws, web censorship laws (all of which have been proposed in germany in the last years).

Their core demands are: * Improve overly strict copyright laws * Improve transparency of government (open data, foia , etc) * Improve the educational system to take advantage of the internet and other "new media" in class. * Improve citizen participation in government by having public votes on more issues

They are also about the only party that has some competence when it comes to computers, the internet, etc

So, as a web-centric citizen, it was easy for me to vote for them.

codesuela• 14 years ago

Note that by being the most net friendly party, the Pirates are the ones you should be voting for if you are part of a startup.

6ren• 14 years ago

Is there any particular reason this is happening first in Germany? Just chance?

Is it because Germany has an electoral system that allows it? [but other nations also allow it]

Or, that Germany is technically advanced, and so one of the first nations to have a sufficiently large constituent of web-centric citizens? (echoes of Martin Luther, opposing the establishment with new communications technology) [but other nations are advanced]

German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory

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