Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay

http://www.adpinion.com/

by prakash • 19 years ago

31 58 19 years ago

Interesting YC startup plugging in "relevant ads". Check the bottom of any PG essay i.e.: http://paulgraham.com/writing44.html

eposts3• 19 years ago

Its plastered all over paulgraham.com, not just the essays. I personally like the ad free version of paulgraham.com :). I wonder if adpinion is another YC startup.

pg2• 19 years ago

Yep. Why else would I do it?

aston• 19 years ago

Selling out for kicks and giggles?

PS: Reddit for ads sounds clever, but still won't get me to click them.

falsestprophet• 19 years ago

To make tens upon tens of dollars!

benhoyt• 19 years ago

To give proceeds to News.YC readers? :-)

zach• 19 years ago

I got a chuckle that you had to link to Adpinion, because practically every page on paulgraham.com has already been submitted.

ph0rque2• 19 years ago

So what kind of information can the adpinion guys extract if someone downvotes every single ad?

eposts3• 19 years ago

Get rid of "any" kind of ad from that page coz its annoying the hell out of visitor(s) :).

lukexi3• 19 years ago

Hi ph0rque, the theory is that even the most ardent of ad-downvoters would eventually like an ad enough to not down it (or, that they would get bored of compulsive negativity, and start being more selective). That one ad would be an extremely valuable piece of information. -Luke

Tichy• 19 years ago

Hm, interesting, but slightly weird concept. If the users are willing to vote actively for their favorite ads, why not let them do it on your homepage to begin with?

On the other hand, why voting, isn't click/no click sufficient information to judge the effectiveness of ads (seems to work for Google Adwords)?

vegashacker6• 19 years ago

That's a really good point about the click/no-click. That said, I could see myself down-voting ads for which there's no chance I'd ever click, leaving ads I might be interested in at some point, but didn't actually want to click at that moment.

Also, there's the type of ad where you think you might be interested in it, so you click it to see what it's about, only to find that the product or whatever actually sucks. That's where the down-vote would help.

I don't know if this idea will work, though. Assuming it's used by web surfers, then I think advertisers will want it. But that's a big assumption. What's the incentive for web surfers to use it? Looking at ads, even "high-quality" ones, isn't really a priority of mine. And there are other tools like StumbleUpon or del.icio.us that suggest content to me, but don't really have the commercial agenda that an ad does.

Leon3• 19 years ago

Oh snap! I went to some random PG essay to see which ad agency PG would put up and was immediately disappointed to see an ad for Mortgages, which was entirely off-base for the page, but then an up/down mod appeared! What?! That was awesome! Down clicking made a 'Sorry' box appear and the ad was gone! Huzzah!

But still, what will happen when an advertisement that a group pays for is consistently down-modded into oblivion, essentially nullifying any chance for it to appear? How will the YC startup handle the irate company? I know an answer would be that they should change their advertisements, but still, some companies may get angry at the YC startup that the money they payed for advertisement didn't do any good. How will they handle that situation? I'm guessing the advertisements are charged on a per-click bases, but is there a base charge, or tiered pricing for size of initial random viewing of web-pages registered with the company?

If the YC startup can't fulfill a promise of at least some level of ad-viewer-ship, then why should a company have their ads go through them?

byrneseyeview2• 19 years ago

So, what you're saying is "Who would want to be rewarded based on performance, given that some people won't perform well?" I guess I might be irate if I said "Let my customers tell me how good my ads are," and the answer was "They suck," but wouldn't I be better off knowing, or at least having the option to know?

Leon3• 19 years ago

Yes, a reasonable person would be glad to have such feedback, but I was more curious of the Marketing Management reaction who would look at their ad click-through's and notice that they aren't that high for a service they just paid money for, or that they're ads aren't even being viewed anywhere at all.

I was just asking how an online advertising service, especially a small startup, handle such things.

vegashacker6• 19 years ago

Maybe the YC company only charges advertisers for each impression -- or maybe for each click-thru. If an advertiser's goods are "down-modded into oblivion", then the advertiser at least didn't have to pay anything. And they can take their ad to, say, AdSense, or some other less exclusive network.

rokhayakebe3• 19 years ago

I wonder when people are going to get it. We have been talking about "IN-vertising" for ever but NO, NO, NO. We still want to guess what the user wants. No software can tell what a user wants better than the user him/herself. I believe we should spend more time and resources providing users with services that let the user initially decide the ads they want. For me send anything that rhymes with coffee, mobility, startups and thick women. Block the other ads. If I feel like buying a car in the next few weeks, then let me pull the firefox or IE plugin and tell it to serve me a few VW Golf ads and listings. Would it be hard to build such a plugin?

randallsquared2• 19 years ago

If you already know you want a VW Golf, the ad isn't very useful for the advertiser.

rokhayakebe3• 19 years ago

Yes it is. If there are 4 cars dealers in my state who have what I am looking for, they can all serve ads to me, then I compare and buy the best car with the best payment option.

farmer• 19 years ago

That's probably when the ad is the most useful, because they can get you to buy it sooner. It's a pretty good deal for VW if a few cents' worth of internet ads can cause you to make a $20k purchase a month sooner.

rokhayakebe3• 19 years ago

One thing I will give the YC guys though is that you can make some hell of user friendly website. I know what the site does within 5 seconds. Anyone has a few spare hours to spend on my website?

staunch2• 19 years ago

It's an exciting idea because it has that magic "Why didn't anyone do this before" feel to it. That's always a good sign. Good luck. I haven't had any coffee yet but I totally missed the voting thumbs on the left, and I was looking for them. Not sure if that's good or bad though.

ivankirigin5• 19 years ago

I hate ads. Everyone hates ads. Why would we take what is largely an automated process (extracting information from a site to guide ads), and make humans do it?

With the idea to "make something people want", isn't it a bad idea to make something a minority want and the vast majority will fight against? Especially considering the majority's clicks are all that matter.

daniel-cussen3• 19 years ago

When they say they will make something people want, they mean the advertisers. Besides, this is the Internet. Ads are here to stay, so why not make them suck less than Google's Adsense?

ivankirigin5• 19 years ago

My point is that advertisers will like this, content creators might like this if they get more money, but the USERS of the site will not like it. I'm not saying this is worse than other image ads, though it is presumptuous to try to waste my time in the process of trying to sell me something.

"Ads are here to stay"

This isn't true. Ads needn't dominate the way people make money on the web.

They certainly suck more than text ads.

mark-t• 19 years ago

I don't hate ads. I hate companies that sell products or services that only benefit themselves. When ads come from legitimate businesses providing products/services that are actually valuable, I think it's a wonderful thing that it's getting a lot easier to reach people who need them.

lukexi3• 19 years ago

Hallo Ivan! The issue for us is that the automated process in place Does Not Work. For you, if you don't interact with the system at all, we just treat the site you're at as an aggregate "user" and guess what you'll like that way. We think that's better than just guessing based on the site content. -Luke

ivankirigin5• 19 years ago

Good luck!

brlewis3• 19 years ago

I hate ads. I ignore most of them, but distracting animated ads get adblocked. If adpinion gives ad-haters an easier way to make an ad disappear, adblock will get used less and they'll get more information.

(Even though I hate ads I think they have their place.)

Alex39172• 19 years ago

There was a lot of hype when Seth Godin implemented this idea on Squidoo back in December. I haven't heard much about it since. That's not to say it's a bad idea, but rather that it's not some miracle technology with guaranteed easy money.

I thought it had a lot of potential at the time and I still think it has a lot of potential now. The only problem is that until there is a large body of ads you get very scatterbrained results.

rms2• 19 years ago

There's an automatic large body of ads because their default ad is the Amazon affiliate program. While there's not a lot of money to be made as an Amazon affiliate, there's useful information to be gained about a user's taste in media.

daniel-cussen3• 19 years ago

I hate ads as much as the next guy. But somehow, I still voted up an ad at the end of a pg essay. It worked on me.

The UI is good, the idea is really elegant, and it is well executed.

vegashacker6• 19 years ago

I did the same thing, but I'll bet you did it for the same reason as me -- you wanted to try it out because it was a YC company and you were curious.

Now I wasn't "lying" when I up-voted the ad -- it did seem generally interesting (some Ruby site that provided tutorial screencasts), but I'm not sure I would have voted if it wasn't linked off news.yc.

daniel-cussen3• 19 years ago

You're right. I was well-disposed because I figured it was a YC startup.

brlewis3• 19 years ago

I would suggest instead of "Sorry" say, "OK, Bye." I think the latter would be more satisfying.

I adblock only distracting animated ads. Will they notice a pattern if I downvote according to ad style, or is it only based on ad topic?

Goladus• 19 years ago

I like "Sorry" actually. It may help raise awareness of how annoying and intrusive bad ads are. "Ok, bye" would be appropriate if it was a friend of yours showing you the ad rather than a faceless corporation.

nickb• 19 years ago

http://www.kuro5hin.org/ had ads that you can comment on etc. but it never worked out. These new ads are a step forward with the targeting system.

Still, I'd like to know how many people actually care about seeing ads.

staunch2• 19 years ago

Reddit too, also failed there as far as I can tell: http://ads.reddit.com/

This doesn't mean it wouldn't work across a large set of sites though. Aggregating responses and correlating them should produce really effective targeting.

ntoshev• 19 years ago

This is not such a great idea, but it probably can be tweaked.

First, it needs some automated targeting. Does anyone know how AdSense targets ads? I bet the ad ends up on the pages that would be returned from a Google query containing the keywords. The better pagerank, the more expensive the ad. I do not have in mind a good algorithm for adpinion, but they should figure something out - Google's targeting is really good..

Second, upclicking doesn't matter and the button is not even needed. The only way the user indicates he likes the ad should be to click through.

Third, do not just count votes. Implement the best open recommendation algorithm from Netflix prize contest instead.

Downclicking that hides the ad is good and useful.

omarish• 19 years ago

So how do you get a sample set that's not biased? What kind of benefit is there to the user in saying that the ad worked the way it should?

brlewis3• 19 years ago

The user who doesn't like an ad benefits from thumbs down because the ad disappears and he's less likely to see similar ads in the future.

The user who likes an ad benefits from thumbs up because he's more likely to see similar ads in the future.

pageman• 19 years ago

Hi Paul, another Paul here. We're interested to know if we can integrate Adpinion with AsiaPay.Com maybe you can email me at paulpajo [at] gmail

Ads on paulgraham.com -- Check the bottom of any PG essay

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