Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

https://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/11.17.0-50

by Lammy • 3 years ago

237 118 3 years ago

For context, Bannerbomb3 is an exploit for the System Settings app. [0] It's used to launch a tool which installs some custom firmware on the device. [1]

[0] https://github.com/zoogie/Bannerbomb3

[1] https://3ds.hacks.guide/

spondylosaurus7• 3 years ago

The good news is that it looks like this new patch won't affect anyone who always has Luma3DS custom firmware installed, and there are other methods for hacking your 3DS, but they're a lot more convoluted. The bannerbomb3 method was super easy and essentially foolproof.

Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. Homebrew communities have been doing their damnedest to keep the 3DS (and its extensive library) alive... but that's Nintendo for ya.

routerl• 3 years ago

Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out.

The age of abandonware[0] is over. The promise of future earnings from streaming/downloads means all major content producers will lock down even out-of-print works, like consoles from previous generations.

This is just another casualty of the fight we were having 20 years ago, re: copyright. We lost. It's over.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

asveikau3• 3 years ago

I feel like it probably costs them very little to keep every title listed for sale. They could be making revenue from it. Probably not as much as when the stuff was new, but something.

I guess by cutting off supply of the old stuff, though, they can do re-releases and re-masters charging somewhat similar to the price of a new game, or get people to pay a monthly subscription fee for access.

ChuckNorris89• 3 years ago

The age of abandonware[0] is over.

Yarrr matey, no it aint. It has only begone.

Gonna take the eye patch and peg leg out of the mothballs and start putting them to good use.

notho2• 3 years ago

It remains to be seen whether the soon to generationally churn will succeed in foisting their ways on the yet to exist.

Having a hard time believing a deluge of generative AI content will keep Mickey Mouse worth anything; even if the AI content cannot be copyrighted why would users pay for Mickey Mouse?

birdyrooster• 3 years ago

Except piracy is pretty awesome and works better than the paid alternatives in many cases. It’s just a matter of perspective who is winning and where they are winning.

sleepybrett• 3 years ago

except that the 3ds' unique form factor means that nintendo really can resell 3ds game effectively on the switch unless they perform major hijinks.

VWWHFSfQ• 3 years ago

I don't think fixing RCEs in a network connected home consumer device is a shitty thing to do. A lot of people might say it's actually pretty responsible.

circuit10• 3 years ago

From what I can tell it’s not remote code execution as you need to copy files to and from your SD card. This only affects people who want to get full access to their own devices

mmebane3• 3 years ago

If you don't mind spending around $10 USD, hacking an updated 3DS is simple if you get an ntrboot-compatible flashcart [1] and a small magnet. At the moment, Ace3DS X flashcarts are available on AliExpress and work well.

If the supply of compatible flashcarts ever dries up, it will definitely get harder, though hopefully there will be more software exploits discovered by then.

[1] https://3ds.hacks.guide/ntrboot

spondylosaurus7• 3 years ago

Wow, you weren't kidding about the magnet:

The usage of this exploit, regardless of the flashing method, requires access to a small magnet if the target device is of a folding style (any 3DS family system that is not the old 2DS with a sleep switch). This is because the exploit requires your device to enter sleep mode while still having access to the buttons.

JansjoFromIkea4• 3 years ago

hah! now I remember what that tiny magnetic that's on one of my toolboxes is! Been looking at it for years every time I go to take something out wondering what it was for

lisbon44• 3 years ago

If the supply of compatible flashcarts ever dries up, it will definitely get harder, though hopefully there will be more software exploits discovered by then.

another area of research is many flashcarts are actually obfuscation around FPGA and integrated flash perhaps if there was more interest a design could be produced in the spirit of open-hardware sans Nintendo property.

giancarlostoro3• 3 years ago

I never understood why they harshly crack down on homebrew. Pirated games sure, but homebrew? Maybe they dont want parents finding their kids downloaded some R-rated homebrew content?

fomine32• 3 years ago

Jailbreak to running homebrew is often used as excuse to running "copy". To avoid this, allow homebrew officially like Xbox is a way, but maybe Nintendo think it's not their way and it need much internal work cost unless it's Microsoft (the development tools and security company).

gjsman-10004• 3 years ago

I interpret this as DS and 2DS games coming to Nintendo Switch Online at some point. Not terribly hard - just have the screens side-by-side, or rotate the Switch 90° for people who want the old experience.

It could even be like how Nintendo is doing the Game Boy last year, with basic Game Boy on the standard plan and GBA with the Expansion pack. Basic DS games would be on the general Online plan, and newer 2DS/3DS games with the Expansion Pack.

faluzure• 3 years ago

I'm curious how the second screen experience will translate. Steam Deck emulators either hotkey the second screen or have a very tiny window on the side.

Lammy2• 3 years ago

Presumably just like it did on WiiU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Virtual_Console_games_...

Which coincidentally was also how I modded my WiiU: https://github.com/smealum/haxchi

b1ue64• 3 years ago

Most DS emulators on PC just have it under the main screen

wilsonnb3• 3 years ago

Could just be remakes.

For example, a switch port of Link Between Worlds is more valuable if you can’t easily buy a used 3DS and pirate it.

But it is probably just Nintendo being protective of their IP and means nothing.

spondylosaurus7• 3 years ago

Zelda remakes in general have been good enough that I would stand by your assessment, but it's also making me think about the how bad Pokemon's BDSP "remakes" were... in that case you really would be better off scrounging up an old copy of Pokemon Platinum.

JansjoFromIkea4• 3 years ago

Definitely, between DS/3DS games feeling weird emulated on anything else and Nintendo having access to the source code, reducing access to the originals greatly boosts the value of single screen remasters.

Could see the final year or two of the Switch having a bunch of them tbh, similar to some of the bizarre late period 3DS ports (e.g. Bowser's Inside Story)

spondylosaurus7• 3 years ago

I kinda doubt it tbh. Nintendo is notoriously reticent about releasing retro games—even with the GBA expansion pack, they're sitting on a ton of titles that would get people to sign up instantly. Instead we're getting the privilege of emulating GBA ports of random SNES titles.

Unless they prove me wrong and we finally get Mother 3.

danjoredd2• 3 years ago

I cannot see this happening. The Switch is old and the new console will be coming out either next year or the year after. It doesn't make much sense for them to be releasing a lot of new feature that might draw people away from their next console. Now adding games to their next console? I can see that if the hardware is right.

Thing is though, nothing will be as pleasant as using it on the actual hardware. If it isn't on an actual DS/3DS, I don't see the point in playing at all personally unless they radically change the controls to a rereleased game.

radicaldreamer• 3 years ago

This is likely due to contract issues - there are many contracts, especially for digital distribution, which have an SLA built in for patching security issues for DRM content. These are basically provisions which allow the contract holder to claw back fees etc. if DRM is broken on a platform for a certain amount of time.

Apple has these with music publishers, especially when the iTunes Store first launched.

zamadatix2• 3 years ago

Why would anyone agree to an distribution SLA which extends past the distribution lifetime? It also seems odd for such a contract to not matter for nearly 4 years while distribution was active. That's kind of lag would seem to defeat the purpose.

jeroenhd5• 3 years ago

It's hard to say how long "distribution lifetimes" are. If the 3DS flopped like the Wii U, it'd be foolish to sign a 5 year contract. Instead it became a success that went on to stay popular for ten years.

Nintendo also isn't giving you a detailed timeline of their upcoming consoles if you're trying to sell games through their console. For all you know, the Switch 2 is right around the corner and signing a distributor contract now will launch your game onto a dead platform.

Vagueness can be good in these cases.

Salgat• 3 years ago

I can guarantee you that if Nintendo says they aren't patching the console after it's sunsetted, publishers will still happily publish games on the console without that clause in the contract. This is still 100% on Nintendo.

Dwedit• 3 years ago

STABILITY

zachruss92• 3 years ago

This is a very Nintendo thing to do. I get it from a business perspective but it’s an easy way to really alienate a loyal audience.

meesles• 3 years ago

And yet they've been antagonistic towards the modding/piracy community since the beginning and have one of the most loyal fan bases of any gaming brand. How do you explain that?

snapcaster2• 3 years ago

Because their games are better and more timeless than others. Going back to a nintendo game from 20 years ago is fun and rewarding, going back to a 20 year old game from EA or whoever is a miserable experience

ipaddr• 3 years ago

The fanbase skips generations of products so it's not as loyal as it seems. The wii-u never hit critical mass for example. Price over highend quality, quantity of games available wins the day for nintendo. Each time I've picked up a nintendo product I do it because it's the cheapest and has the most games. Original vs sega master system, genasis vs super nintendo, wii over microsoft's surface

spondylosaurus7• 3 years ago

Two things:

(1) Your average Nintendo gamer isn't into the modding scene whatsoever; they just want to play the latest version of Mario Kart.

(2) Their games really are good. So good people will bend over backwards to mod them (or, in the case of older titles, even just play them), despite the challenges. Particularly for games they grew up on.

It's not a mod, per se (and to some extent it's tacitly tolerated by Nintendo), but the Pokemon Showdown[1] battle simulator is one of my favorite examples of a fan-made gaming project.

Competitive Pokemon follows a couple different formats: there's the official Nintendo-sponsored format, known as VGC, which is played on physical game cartridges and uses rules set by Nintendo itself; and then there's Smogon, which is a community-led format with dozens of different metagames and tiers. Players (usually) vote on rules and bans in any given format, and games themselves are played on Pokemon Showdown's browser-based battle simulator.

What makes this so cool is that Pokemon Showdown is a 1:1 replica of how player-vs-player battles function on physical game cartridges—including random glitches and quirks from earlier generations. (Gen 1 Hyper Beam, anyone?) Nintendo hasn't brought down the hammer because Pokemon Showdown is no replacement for actually playing a full-blown Pokemon game, but it's an amazing way to preserve competitive formats from generations past. The DS and 3DS may be dead, but BW OU's weather wars live on...

[1] https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/

hospitalJail• 3 years ago

How do you explain that?

They market to children/toddlers who have no concept of corporate mascots. Their fans have nostalgia toward childhood characters/stuffed animals.

downWidOutaFite• 3 years ago

It's basically the Disney business model, still mining nostalgic brands from 40 years ago. As a parent I was lucky that I didn't have that nostalgia factor to make me push it onto my kids. I got a Switch based on their "family friendly" reputation, saw how scummy they are with re-releases, random subscription fees, and periodically locking down old games on their emulator, and decided I didn't want to make my kid become nostalgic to that corporate abuse in their future. That's at least one generational nostalgia chain cutoff, but there are many million others out there.

jgerrish• 3 years ago

It was an honor knowing and having Mario and Cloud Strife and all the rest in my life.

Have a good day, I'm closing this tab.

jeroenhd5• 3 years ago

I doubt their loyal audience cares. Nintendo has been a terrible company for decades but it still has fans because the games it produces are fun enough that most people don't care.

lostgame• 3 years ago

I replied to a comment on some other Nintendo-related post here the other day that began with something like ‘…Nintendo isn’t petty enough to…’ - to which I jokingly replied that I’d stopped reading after that.

Honestly - Nintendo is the pettiest and shittiest to its incredibly passionate fan base.

Where SEGA hires people who have created great fan content, for instance; Nintendo sends out C&D’s.

Nintendo shut off their own revenue stream by closing the 3DS store.

That was their choice. They could still be making at least a bit of money from the 3DS store, but they chose not to.

So…punish the homebrew devs for their own stupid decision? I have never been able to understand Nintendo’s behaviour, especially having grown up in the ROM hacking and fan gaming scene where SEGA and Nintendo could not be more parallel opposites.

gjsman-10004• 3 years ago

Well, here's actually an easy way to rationalize part of it:

Sega doesn't represent anyone. They are in charge of their own games, and that's it. They feel free to allow, or disallow, people to do whatever they want with them. Also, Sega of Japan actually feels not that much love for Sonic and was surprised by his US success - they don't really care; but if you touched some of their other franchises on their home turf they'd have a little more bite.

Nintendo, on the other hand, has wildly successful IP in Japan and the US; and also represents all of the developers on their platform. All it takes is for one developer to complain that people are pirating their old 3DS game and Nintendo should do something about it, and Nintendo doesn't really need to disagree and cause a 3rd-party developer to be upset. It's an easy enough fix, takes little effort, is a reasonable enough request, and keeps the relationship happy.

Edit: Also, as I elaborate here, Sega has paid a price for lax copyright practices. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36048593

vlunkr• 3 years ago

I’m aware of sonic mania, has sega hired fans for other games?

Lammy2• 3 years ago

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PromotedFanboy/VideoG...

surgical_fire3• 3 years ago

Nintendo is the pettiest and shittiest to its incredibly passionate fan base.

Eh... Not really?

I mean, what are we even complaining about here? That a company did some minor step (in a too little too late fashion) to block their old console, that everyone and their dog already hacked?

And even still, how does it impede the homebrew people? Plenty of emulators for every Nintendo console available anyway.

And let's not pretend like this is not going to be bypassed as well. I would be surprised if in half a year there is not a new way to just hack it anyway.

Cyph0n• 3 years ago

If you really think Nintendo isn’t extremely petty, read up on how they deal with the Super Smash Bros competitive scene.

no_time• 3 years ago

I replied to a comment on some other Nintendo-related post here the other day that began with something like ‘…Nintendo isn’t petty enough to…’ - to which I jokingly replied that I’d stopped reading after that.

Lol hello again. I stand corrected.

newaccount74• 3 years ago

My son still has a a 3DS.

Does this update install automatically? Should I do something to prevent it?

snvzz2• 3 years ago

Offline it.

spiznnx• 3 years ago

It doesn't unhack a hacked 3DS, it just closes an exploit used to hack it in the first place.

So I would add custom firmware first if that's something you want to do to it in the future.

jeroenhd5• 3 years ago

If you've installed custom firmware, you can update without any problems.

If you haven't and still plan on doing so, keeping the console offline is your best bet. Deleting the WiFi network is the easiest way to make sure it doesn't update. I don't think 3DS online services are still popular but your son can probably tell you that.

Hacking the thing took me two or three hours in total, with no hardware modification using the guide on https://3ds.hacks.guide/. Most of that was me being careful while reading the instructions and making backups, I'm pretty sure the entire process can be done in twenty minutes. Now that the eStore has been abandoned, it's the only way to play some eStore only titles so it's worth doing if you want to preserve that history.

ihuman2• 3 years ago

The update does not install automatically. You have to manually install it from the settings app.

snvzz2• 3 years ago

Disgusting anti-consumer practices.

gavaw• 3 years ago

They didn't update the firmware "to block Bannerbomb3", they fixed a bug in the Settings app.

awestroke• 3 years ago

Source?

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF• 3 years ago

"Bannerbomb3" is referring to an exploit in their system settings which allowed for custom firmware to be installed on the device. So fixing the bug which allowed the exploit is what is considered to have "blocked Bannerbomb3".

Personally, I think it's rather likely that Nintendo did this specifically to prevent their customers from installing custom firmware on devices they purchased, rather than because Nintendo wanted to fix a bug for any sort of perfectionist or altruistic ("user security") reasons. It can just be dressed up as a security issue, so that's what they do if they feel the need to justify it at all.

skeaker2• 3 years ago

A bug that is entirely inconsequential except for the very very specific case of a user exploiting it deliberately on their own device to run Bannerbomb3. This is a pointless distinction, the tech equivalent of "I'm not punching you, I am just holding my fist up and running in your direction with my eyes closed and if you get hit it's your fault!"

AdmiralAsshat• 3 years ago

Given that the eShop is gone, there's really no reason to take your 3DS out of airplane mode to receive the firmware update in the first place, right?

JansjoFromIkea4• 3 years ago

Are online services gone with the eShop? Last I checked most games still seemed to work online (this was like a year ago though)

hbn2• 3 years ago

The eShop only shut down a couple months ago

haunter2• 3 years ago

You can still play online multiplayer games. Smash Bros, Mario Kart 7, Monster Hunter Stories PvP etc. The whole Pokemon Bank also works. They only removed the option in eShop to purchase new games, you can still also download everything you bought before.

ihuman2• 3 years ago

You don't have to put it in airplane mode. The 3ds can't update automatically; you have to manually go to the software update menu.

jeroenhd5• 3 years ago

I wonder why anyone would update. It's not like new games are going to refuse to run unless you update and the online services that validate your firmware have all shut down. Why even bother?

haunter2• 3 years ago

and the online services that validate your firmware have all shut down

Nope. Online multiplayer games still work. They only removed the feature to buy new games from the eShop.

fnordpiglet• 3 years ago

I know nothing about the context behind this (not even totally sure what 3DS is other than some console that didn’t register on my radar). But it looks really interesting. Is there a summary available of the problem, the solution bannerbomb3 offered, what Nintendo did? What I read this update it didn’t seem more than a security update? I see folks talking about this closing the door behind them after ending the console etc. Is this blocking side loading? Sorry for all the profoundly noob/dumb questions but it looks interesting and I’m really interested.

OatmealDome2• 3 years ago

The Nintendo 3DS was a handheld gaming console released in 2011.

Like many other gaming consoles, you can only run software that is approved by the manufacturer on it. To run your own software ("homebrew"), one has to exploit flaws in the OS and use them to remove these restrictions. One side effect of homebrew is that it often leads to piracy of approved software.

One of the most common step-by-step guides that help users install homebrew uses an exploit called Bannerbomb3 to run the installer. [0] By inserting a malformed DSiWare application onto the SD card, the System Settings app can be crashed in such a way that facilitates arbitrary code execution. The loaded program is then used to install custom firmware.

In March 2023, Nintendo shut down the eShop, the digital software storefront for the Nintendo 3DS, effectively ending most support for the console. After this happened, many people started advocating homebrew-ing 3DSes to allow pirated software to be installed on them, since purchasing software digitally could no longer be done.

Now, 2 months later, Nintendo has decided to issue a firmware update that patches the Bannerbomb3 exploit, preventing new 3DS systems from being homebrewed in this fashion if they are on the latest firmware. (It should be noted that there are many, many more exploits for the 3DS [1], so I'm not sure why they've decided to fix this exact one.)

[0] https://3ds.hacks.guide

[1] https://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Exploits

skeaker2• 3 years ago

The 3DS is the Nintendo handheld that followed the DS. It has a very robust homebrew scene due to having a passionate community and not so good security. Homebrew allowed for a ton of new features including surprisingly strong emulation, customizing system menus, running your own code, patching of other games at runtime for modding/translating, etc. Obviously it also opened the door to piracy which makes it something Nintendo is eager to shut down. 3DS hit EoL a while ago (users can no longer make legitimate purchases through Nintendo), yet despite months having gone by since then Nintendo has decided to go back and patch up one of the more convenient methods for enabling homebrew which is something that is considered a dick move since they weren't making money off of it anymore anyways and even if they were it is YOUR SYSTEM and you should be able to do what you want with it. Fortunately there are unpatchable zero-day exploits for the system but they are not as easy as the one that Nintendo patched.

Homebrew on Nintendo consoles has always had a really interesting scene but it really took off with the Wii and everything after it. Hackers would keep finding ways to get into everything and Nintendo would hastily patch it up in a sort of live cat and mouse game. The exploit that Nintendo patched just recently is not hard to do, but older exploits were even easier. One of the earlier 3DS exploits was to simply drop a modified audio file onto your SD card and play it in the 3DS audio player. You would own the whole device in ten seconds flat.

x-complexity2• 3 years ago

Nintendo currently has a large devout fanbase that will defend the company till death, purely because of childhood nostalgia.

Until said fanbase is gone (which is almost never), Nintendo can effectively do whatever they want to modders & homebrewers, with the fanbase continuing to buy Nintendo's products without question.

astura• 3 years ago

Sorry, but this is idiotic - Nintendo fanboys are also the biggest critics of Nintendo and are always whining and complaining about Nintendo and their decisions. Nobody is defending Nintendo, ever, it's a nonstop whinefest - "Nintendo is not giving me this," "Nintendo is not giving me that," "Nintendo hates it's customers."

Someone here even said they felt personally betrayed by Nintendo because they bought a Wii U and then Nintendo never released a Zelda title exclusively on that console. That's pathologic.

x-complexity2• 3 years ago

Sorry, but this is idiotic - Nintendo fanboys are also the biggest critics of Nintendo and are always whining and complaining about Nintendo and their decisions. Nobody is defending Nintendo, ever, it's a nonstop whinefest - "Nintendo is not giving me this," "Nintendo is not giving me that," "Nintendo hates it's customers."
Someone here even said they felt personally betrayed by Nintendo because they bought a Wii U and then Nintendo never released a Zelda title exclusively on that console. That's pathologic.

Nevertheless, they still buy their games & consoles. Such criticisms have near-zero value if said fans keep buying Nintendo's products.

daneel_w• 3 years ago

This is somehow so very Nintendo. They're like this grade school jerk kid who when done playing soccer with the other kids insist on kicking the ball straight to hell just so nobody else can keep playing after they're done. You'll pry my Luma3DS-fixed console out of my cold dead hands.

Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation

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